If intelligence truly is genetic...

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Too lazy to read the whole thread but...
OP, I'm a first generation college student with wonderful, but not exactly brilliant parents, and managed to pull a 35 on my MCAT.
 
CsHead said:
and it's now Ski Free time..
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I haven't been able to find the original anywhere. There was a flash version but it just wasn't the same.

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Winged Scapula said:
Kudos to all of you who have so humorously and/or eloquently stated the facts:

- intelligence is not dependent on education
- your parents give you life; success in it is dependent on you
- the OP should consider that there are many many people around the world who could never conceive of even getting to the point that she is at: being able to have a chance to become a physician, to afford a computer and an education


Thank you for giving me back faith in your generation; a generation often referred to as the Entitled Ones. You all get it: what you make of your life is YOUR responsibility. Blaming your parents for not being good looking enough or successful enough is ridiculous.
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What bothers me is that when liberals deny facts, such as the fact that intelligence is genetic, it's considered fine, but when conservatives deny evolution or climate change they are viewed with derision. The truth is that if a person has a 110 IQ they will almost certainly not be able to become a doctor. It is also true that genetics is partly (or largely) the cause of that 110 IQ. These are not statements that would be considered controversial by educated people in the field of genetics or psychology or biology. It is true that it is up to individuals to reach as much success as they can within their innate capabilities and it's also true that it would seem a bit odd to blame your parents for an IQ that wouldn't allow you to go to medical school or get a PhD in physics or whatever the out-of-reach desire might be.
 
Wilf said:
What bothers me is that when liberals deny facts, such as the fact that intelligence is genetic, it's considered fine, but when conservatives deny evolution or climate change they are viewed with derision. The truth is that if a person has a 110 IQ they will almost certainly not be able to become a doctor. It is also true that genetics is partly (or largely) the cause of that 110 IQ. These are not statements that would be considered controversial by educated people in the field of genetics or psychology or biology. It is true that it is up to individuals to reach as much success as they can within their innate capabilities and it's also true that it would seem a bit odd to blame your parents for an IQ that wouldn't allow you to go to medical school or get a PhD in physics or whatever the out-of-reach desire might be.
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😕

If that the case, med schools wouldn't be able to fill all their classes.
 
Wilf said:
What bothers me is that when liberals deny facts, such as the fact that intelligence is genetic, it's considered fine, but when conservatives deny evolution or climate change they are viewed with derision. The truth is that if a person has a 110 IQ they will almost certainly not be able to become a doctor. It is also true that genetics is partly (or largely) the cause of that 110 IQ. These are not statements that would be considered controversial by educated people in the field of genetics or psychology or biology. It is true that it is up to individuals to reach as much success as they can within their innate capabilities and it's also true that it would seem a bit odd to blame your parents for an IQ that wouldn't allow you to go to medical school or get a PhD in physics or whatever the out-of-reach desire might be.
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No. No not really

Yes, IQ is very significantly impacted by genetics. Success is not. At least not in the manner you are discussing here. Many people with an IQ of 110 (by whatever largely subjective measure you'd like) are physicians as well as other things.

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cwrig14 said:
Too lazy to read the whole thread but...
OP, I'm a first generation college student with wonderful, but not exactly brilliant parents, and managed to pull a 35 on my MCAT.
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👍 Same, although I haven't taken the MCAT yet, but I scored well on the SAT and have maintained a 4.0 for about 3 years.

Reiterating what everyone else said, life is what you make it of it. Don't blame others-- it doesn't sound like you grew up to abusive parents or anything, so don't blame them either.
 
Wilf said:
What bothers me is that when liberals deny facts, such as the fact that intelligence is genetic, it's considered fine, but when conservatives deny evolution or climate change they are viewed with derision. The truth is that if a person has a 110 IQ they will almost certainly not be able to become a doctor. It is also true that genetics is partly (or largely) the cause of that 110 IQ. These are not statements that would be considered controversial by educated people in the field of genetics or psychology or biology. It is true that it is up to individuals to reach as much success as they can within their innate capabilities and it's also true that it would seem a bit odd to blame your parents for an IQ that wouldn't allow you to go to medical school or get a PhD in physics or whatever the out-of-reach desire might be.
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... Changing the topic to go on a rant and grandstand about how enlightened you are, belittling others, and then espousing controversy... ****ing classic SDN.
 
Balantidiumcoli said:
... Changing the topic to go on a rant and grandstand about how enlightened you are, belittling others, and then espousing controversy... ****ing classic SDN.
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It's no different. Liberals deny the facts they do because they hate the implications of those facts and conservatives do the same. Genetics and intelligence have bad implications for egalitarianism, while evolution has bad implications for religion. The part that upsets me is the stereotype that liberals are the more enlightened and intelligent group.
 
Wilf said:
It's no different. Liberals deny the facts they do because they hate the implications and conservatives do the same. Genetics and intelligence have bad implications for egalitarianism, while evolution has bad implications for religion. The part that upsets me is the stereotype that liberals are the more enlightened and intelligent group.
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It is incredibly different.

Speaking of denying facts due to implications, there is irony here in asserting facts for the same reason.

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Who is saying that liberals deny this fact? That liberal/conservative mumbo jumbo seems out of left field. As well as the strange belief that having an above average IQ + chances at being a doc. I mean, I know you realize all of your classmates aren't genuises haha. If not, then congrats, you learned your classmates are good at lying 😛
 
Wilf said:
What bothers me is that when liberals deny facts, such as the fact that intelligence is genetic, it's considered fine, but when conservatives deny evolution or climate change they are viewed with derision. The truth is that if a person has a 110 IQ they will almost certainly not be able to become a doctor. It is also true that genetics is partly (or largely) the cause of that 110 IQ. These are not statements that would be considered controversial by educated people in the field of genetics or psychology or biology. It is true that it is up to individuals to reach as much success as they can within their innate capabilities and it's also true that it would seem a bit odd to blame your parents for an IQ that wouldn't allow you to go to medical school or get a PhD in physics or whatever the out-of-reach desire might be.
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Having spent a number of years in grad school (prior to medical school) studying Psychology and administering more than a few WAIS/WISCs/Stanford-Binet exams, I am quite familiar with the role of inheritance and intelligence. IQ can be predicted from parent's IQs just as you can predict what color my eyes might be, or whether my 2nd toe is longer than the first; its all in that double helix. Unfortunately, have no interest in getting into a political debate.

While the average medical student IQ may be higher than the average (whatever the hell average is) Joe Blue Collar worker's, there has never been any evidence that a higher than average intelligence (defined as 100 with SD of 15) was required to succeed in medical school. As a matter of fact, a number of studies don't even rank physicians as the highest average IQ out there.

Medical school is about work ethic and memorization, not a high IQ. And let's not forget the debate about what these standardized tests are really measuring. They certainly aren't measuring success, work ethic, earnings, productivity, etc.
 
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KnuxNole said:
😕

If that the case, med schools wouldn't be able to fill all their classes.
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That's ridiculous. I don't even know how else to respond to your post. The average IQ for med students/doctors is 130 with a standard deviation of around 6. So statistically less than 1% of them would have IQs below 112. Is that really surprising to you?
 
SpecterGT260 said:
No. No not really

Yes, IQ is very significantly impacted by genetics. Success is not. At least not in the manner you are discussing here. Many people with an IQ of 110 (by whatever largely subjective measure you'd like) are physicians as well as other things.
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What this guy said. Work ethic is more relevant in the long run. And when it comes to sitting next to the hottie at the bar, I'll take the 110 IQ over the 130 IQ any day.
 
Wilf said:
That's ridiculous. I don't even know how else to respond to your post. The average IQ for med students/doctors is 130 with a standard deviation of around 6. So statistically less than 1% of them would have IQs below 112. Is that really surprising to you?
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Uh yeah xD

Like I said above, it's DOUBTFUL most of your peers have an IQ of 130+(unless you go to an ivy league school). TONS of your classmates probably have a 110 or *shocker* below.

If you told me this in person, I'd burst out laughing at this lame sentence. TONS of doctors don't even come near to an IQ of 130. And like I said, you KNOW that doctors aren't considered geniuses of the world. Just curious, why you would actually believe doctors would have such a high IQ...?

Besides, an IQ =/= being a good doctor haha.
 
Wilf said:
It's no different. Liberals deny the facts they do because they hate the implications and conservatives do the same. Genetics and intelligence have bad implications for egalitarianism, while evolution has bad implications for religion. The part that upsets me is the stereotype that liberals are the more enlightened and intelligent group.
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Whoa damn Wilf, slow down buddy. That's just too much truth to handle in one sitting. Jesus Christ, saying all of that self-righteous babble with such unabashed certitude means you must be crazy smart.

Excuse me for a while Wilf. I have to go volunteer at the free clinic in a bad part of town where genetics and environment seem to have amalgamated to create a cycle of poverty, lacking education and disenfranchisement. There's that silly idea that a person's potential shouldn't be thrown away because someone else is too lazy to help them realize it.
 
Wilf said:
That's ridiculous. I don't even know how else to respond to your post. The average IQ for med students/doctors is 130 with a standard deviation of around 6. So statistically less than 1% of them would have IQs below 112. Is that really surprising to you?
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Cite a source please

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OP this post is so downright ignorant. Not only does it show that you have no respect for your mother, but self-respect as well. Go work on your attitude and move on. If you wan't to be a physician start changing your attitude. Don't blame it soley on a lack of intelligence. There are other factors as well and you must work hard and do whatever you do to succeed.

Here is some motivation:
"How Bad Do You Want It": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ok8OHYQdDDI
 
Wilf said:
It's no different. Liberals deny the facts they do because they hate the implications of those facts and conservatives do the same. Genetics and intelligence have bad implications for egalitarianism, while evolution has bad implications for religion. The part that upsets me is the stereotype that liberals are the more enlightened and intelligent group.
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SpecterGT260 said:
Cite a source please

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Seems to be false at first glance. Looks like it's somewhere around 115 with a muuuuch larger standard deviation, with many at 110.

source: http://www.ssc.wisc.edu/cde/cdewp/98-07.pdf see figure 8
 
KnuxNole said:
Uh yeah xD

Like I said above, it's DOUBTFUL most of your peers have an IQ of 130+(unless you go to an ivy league school). TONS of your classmates probably have a 110 or *shocker* below.

If you told me this in person, I'd burst out laughing at this lame sentence. TONS of doctors don't even come near to an IQ of 130. And like I said, you KNOW that doctors aren't considered geniuses of the world. Just curious, why you would actually believe doctors would have such a high IQ...?
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The average IQ of people in this country with a bachelors degree is 115. You think there are a lot of people in med school who were below average in college? I think you should educate yourself a bit. The truth is that med school is actually quite elite (not making a value judgment about that, just stating what most people agree with). I think you are also overhyping how great a 130 IQ is. While it is top 2% of the country, that translates into 6,200,000 people in the US.
 
Microglia said:
Seems to be false at first glance. Looks like it's somewhere around 120 with a muuuuch larger standard deviation, with many at 110.

source: http://www.ssc.wisc.edu/cde/cdewp/98-07.pdf see figure 8
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That makes more sense. After all, a 110 IQ is a HIGH IQ by all means. So it's laughable to think most of your classmates would have +30 above the average population on average...unless you think very highly of everyone 😱
I hope there aren't med students who walk around and think they are considered "elite". I get what you are saying, but doctors being the top 2% of the country seems exaggerated. Unless YOU have a insanely high IQ, I think it's being overblown to think everyone else does too. Most of your peers aren't geniuses in your class(unless you have a class of MENSA people!!)
 
I've familiar with the Wisconsin study linked above.

Some issues - mostly centering around the very homogenous sample tested; few minorities, fewer urban professionals etc.

However, the numbers actually pan out when compared to other studies on IQ; that is, as mentioned above, highest IQs as a function of occupation tend to go to the natural scientists, with physicians ranging from 110-130 with some outliers at both ends, or around 3rd place.

Anyway who cares, WILF (not sure what the W stands for before making a proclamation about "ILF" or not. :naughty: )?
 
dannybht said:
OP this post is so downright ignorant. Not only does it show that you have no respect for your mother, but self-respect as well. Go work on your attitude and move on. If you wan't to be a physician start changing your attitude. Don't blame it soley on a lack of intelligence. There are other factors as well and you must work hard and do whatever you do to succeed.

Here is some motivation:
"How Bad Do You Want It": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ok8OHYQdDDI
Click to expand...

You can't say you've never hated your mom, or anyone you've lived with and seen on a daily basis, you get sick on things when you're around them too much.
 
Wilf said:
It's no different. Liberals deny the facts they do because they hate the implications of those facts and conservatives do the same. Genetics and intelligence have bad implications for egalitarianism, while evolution has bad implications for religion. The part that upsets me is the stereotype that liberals are the more enlightened and intelligent group.
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Gee.. I guess you're still mad from the election
 
sieg5 said:
You can't say you've never hated your mom, or anyone you've lived with and seen on a daily basis, you get sick on things when you're around them too much.
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No you can't. We've all been there (especially after the holidays).

But unless the OP is 15, such an attitude is pretty immature. By the time most people get to the point of taking the MCAT, they've started to appreciate their parents and stop blaming them for things out of their control and for choices they've made or the things they've said.

Do I still recall what my former fashion model mother said to me as I put on weight before I hit my growth spurt during puberty? Yes.

Do I blame her when I eat candy between Thanksgiving and Christmas and gain weight? No.

I blame my father. 😉 Seriously, its about taking responsibility for your own life (and actions). You can still hate things about your parents without disrespecting them.
 
Haha, are there any other conservatives here?
 
sieg5 said:
You can't say you've never hated your mom, or anyone you've lived with and seen on a daily basis, you get sick on things when you're around them too much.
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Huh? I never said OP hated his mom nor did OP mention that he hates his mom.
 
all of you who replied in a negative tone and/or posted MCAT score will make horrible doctors. My sole words to OP are: play your cards right, everyman has his game
 
dannybht said:
Huh? I never said OP hated his mom nor did OP mention that he hates his mom.
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It's more like a teenage daughter "hate" that the OP probably has. You know, the...

"I'm NEVER talking to you again! You ruin my life!!!" *slams door and locks it*.

*next day*

"Mom I love you. BTW, I need 50 bucks!"
 
SpecterGT260 said:
Me. But I'm a realist first.

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Every so often I post trying to convince people that intelligence is real and that the differences between people is also very real. The resistance in this room tonight is more than I usually get! Oh well, it's always fun to debate.

It's like that episode of Friends when Ross meets a guy who doesn't believe in evolution and he gets upset and yells, "you mean my whole life's study is all for nothing!?"
 
Winged Scapula said:
No you can't. We've all been there (especially after the holidays).

But unless the OP is 15, such an attitude is pretty immature. By the time most people get to the point of taking the MCAT, they've started to appreciate their parents and stop blaming them for things out of their control and for choices they've made or the things they've said.

Do I still recall what my former fashion model mother said to me as I put on weight before I hit my growth spurt during puberty? Yes.

Do I blame her when I eat candy between Thanksgiving and Christmas and gain weight? No.

I blame my father. 😉 Seriously, its about taking responsibility for your own life (and actions). You can still hate things about your parents without disrespecting them.
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your conclusion is based only on the direct circle of people and their parents whom which you were exposed to; think anecdotal evidence.
 
lol +1

KnuxNole said:
It's more like a teenage daughter "hate" that the OP probably has. You know, the...

"I'm NEVER talking to you again! You ruin my life!!!" *slams door and locks it*.

*next day*

"Mom I love you. BTW, I need 50 bucks!"
Click to expand...
 
heartsavior said:
all of you who replied in a negative tone and/or posted MCAT score will make horrible doctors. My sole words to OP are: play your cards right, everyman has his game
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You know literally nothing about what it takes to be any kind of doctor. Let alone a good or terrible one.

Let's not try to make this point again. The only reason people say this is to circumferentially imply that they themselves will be good doctors. A statistically bad call

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heartsavior said:
your conclusion is based only on the direct circle of people and their parents whom which you were exposed to; think anecdotal evidence.
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Uhmmm...no, its also based on years of graduate study in Social Psychology and Human Behavior before medical school.

Then again, it is true that people in medicine do tend to mature slower than age matched controls. Perhaps I have made the mistake in assuming that the OP is a normal person.
 
heartsavior said:
your conclusion is based only on the direct circle of people and their parents whom which you were exposed to; think anecdotal evidence.
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Is yours any different?

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Wilf said:
Every so often I post trying to convince people that intelligence is real and that the differences between people is also very real. The resistance in this room tonight is more than I usually get! Oh well, it's always fun to debate.

It's like that episode of Friends when Ross meets a guy who doesn't believe in evolution and he gets upset and yells, "you mean my whole life's study is all for nothing!?"
Click to expand...

I agree with this point. But I don't think you made this point earlier. Instead you gave unsupported numbers towards a flawed conclusion.

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Wilf said:
Every so often I post trying to convince people that intelligence is real and that the differences between people is also very real. The resistance in this room tonight is more than I usually get! Oh well, it's always fun to debate.

It's like that episode of Friends when Ross meets a guy who doesn't believe in evolution and he gets upset and yells, "you mean my whole life's study is all for nothing!?"
Click to expand...

Who doesn't believe intelligence is real? Yes, there is a clear hereditary factor in natural cognitive aptitude however you measure it, but that doesn't mean that it's some final determinant of potential in life. This is not even to mention the necessity of nurturing early childhood care necessary to develop said inborn aptitude.

You're not better than someone else just because you're born more "naturally intelligent," however you want to define that, even though we know that does play a role.


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