if it came down to MD vs DO...

[amar314]

I'm currently a pre-med student so it might be a little early to be asking these questions but i'd like to be prepared. If two applicants were competing for this specialty for the last spot and both had identical credentials excepts one was MD and the other DO...which would have the better shot?

Although I feel that MD are a bit more competitive, DO IMO are better suited for this specialty.


Thanks for the thoughts.

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[lejeunesage]

The thing is, I don't think this ever happens. There's almost always something to differentiate 2 applicants. I don't think being a D.O. makes you better at physiatry any more than it'd make you better at orthopedic surgery. It's studying physiatry well that makes you a good physiatrist. But if you can get an MD spot, I'd go for it, mainly for this reason:
Even though some fields such as PM&R (I saw lots of D.Os at Mayo and the Chair of PM&R at Harvard is a D.O), FM, IM, and Psych might not care, there are individual programs where being a D.O. would put you at a disadvantage. It's not to say that your training will be inadequate in any way, but a lot of people are prejudiced against D.O.s and unfortunately, some of them might get to make decisions on whether you get to be ranked or how highly you get to be ranked at a given residency program. Besides, what if you decide that you want to do ER or radiology?
The thing is, I can think of many situations where having an MD does not give you a leg up; I can't think of any situation where it actually hurts you.

 

[314117]

You're a premed, and it's your opinion that DO is more suited for the specialty than MD? You're not even in med school?? You have no idea what you are talking about. You know nothing about this at all.

 

[amar314]

You're a premed, and it's your opinion that DO is more suited for the specialty than MD? You're not even in med school?? You have no idea what you are talking about. You know nothing about this at all.

Thank you very much lejeunesage.

Avalon10, that's very presumptuous of you because I've done research and everything I've read leads to this. DOs are not only trained like a typical medical student, but they are taught a more holistic, non-invasive approach, with a focus on the musculoskeletal system and the idea that physicians must treat the body as a whole and not in compartmentalized sections. PM&R has the same ideals. How is it that I'm talking nonsense? No, I'm not a medical doctor, but any person that's able to research some information can come up with this reasoning, of course it may be different from what actually occurs in reality but it's not an absurd opinion either.

 

[Mad Jack]

Won't ever happen. You're not going to have two students with equal Step scores, equal grades, equal ECs, and equal life experience. It just won't come down to that. If it came down to two identical candidates on paper, they'd just pick the person they liked more. They're going to have to put up with that person for the next four years, so personality kind of matters.

 

[314117]

amar314-

Your "research" is about as valid as if I were to "research" how to play professional baseball, and then went and told the Yankees what I thought about how they play. You don't know what you don't know, and it is you who is being presumptuous by using your "research" to tell people your opinion about what kind of doctors practice what way.

Get into medical school first, get to fourth year, do a PM&R rotation, then you can begin to have the slightest idea what you are talking about. Until then, you sound naive and ridiculous.

One of the first things you will learn when you get to medical school is that you don't know anything about medicine- and that the best way to learn is to listen to people who are senior over you (second year med student, third year, intern, resident, etc.)

 

[anbuitachi]

I'm currently a pre-med student so it might be a little early to be asking these questions but i'd like to be prepared. If two applicants were competing for this specialty for the last spot and both had identical credentials excepts one was MD and the other DO...which would have the better shot?

Although I feel that MD are a bit more competitive, DO IMO are better suited for this specialty.


Thanks for the thoughts.

If you can get into MD, always go to MD. While DO might say on paper its about holistic approach, how true this is is uncertain, and how much this matters is even less certain. In the end, most ppl going into DO are those who couldn't get into MD which is why some people view DO as inferior to MD [which is also demonstrated by the stats]

 

[RangerBob]

Won't ever happen. You're not going to have two students with equal Step scores, equal grades, equal ECs, and equal life experience. It just won't come down to that. If it came down to two identical candidates on paper, they'd just pick the person they liked more. They're going to have to put up with that person for the next four years, so personality kind of matters.

I agree with this. Some programs really care about personality, such that you could have lower USMLE scores, grades, etc (to a certain degree, obviously) and still be preferred. Other programs don't care much about personality--but it would certainly be a much bigger tie-breaker than MD vs DO in PM&R.

Honestly, go to the best in-state (ie., cheapest) program you can get into, whether it's DO or MD. If you're really set on PM&R and your only options are all private universities, then go to the one with a PM&R residency program. That gives you a chance to get early exposure, possible research connections, home rotation, and strong chance of matching into at least your home program--assuming it's not a top 5 program and that the program likes you.

 

[amar314]

Thank you everyone for the insightful answers. I'll be sure to look back them in 2 or 3 years!

 

[anbuitachi]

Thank you everyone for the insightful answers. I'll be sure to look back them in 2 or 3 years!

Another reason MD > DO is in case you decide you hate PMR.. and want to go to like.. derm instead or something

 

[PrideNeverDie]

all things equal, it would definitely go to the taller, better looking candidate

 

[fozzy40]

To the OP, I want to address your thread title. If it came down to choosing MD over DO, I would've picked DO again. The curriculum suited my personal interests at the time of applying and glad I did. Being an osteopathic physician has never really limited my options nor any of my colleagues in all fields. The manual skills if you are interested in musculoskeletal medicine are invaluable! Just my two cents...

 

[MedBronc23]

I'm currently a pre-med student so it might be a little early to be asking these questions but i'd like to be prepared. If two applicants were competing for this specialty for the last spot and both had identical credentials excepts one was MD and the other DO...which would have the better shot?

Although I feel that MD are a bit more competitive, DO IMO are better suited for this specialty.


Thanks for the thoughts.

To the OP and others. I struggled with this same decision as Pre-Med student. My first MCAT was not good but 2nd time I improved like 10 pts just by studying and not being overconfident. My father is a chiropractor who admits he wishes he would have gone to DO or MD and been a physiatrist or FP doc and if DO used OMM and manipulations. I digress, DO was very attractive to me because of that personal background and exposure as a child to a healthcare field that deals with pain, msk, wellness ect. I applied to many DO programs but also many MD programs, and I will be honest because my scores were still a bit low I got more DO invites than MD invites. I was actually set to attend a DO program and got waitlisted at two allopathic (MD) programs in home state where my fiance' was doing her RN training. I got last minute call that someone dropped out of one of the programs and did I want the MD spot, and I chose MD for personal and geographic reasons.

Mayo, Spaulding, RIC, UWashington, ect. all have fair share of DO and MD staff and trainees. As a Mayo senior resident, my class is great mix of DO and MD trained exactly half and half. Our two chiefs are DO. We had MDs match to ACGME Sports, Pain, SCI (even though not match) fellowship top choices (top 1-3 choices) and two DOs match to top 1-2 Pain fellowships. One DO and other MD got very competitive general PM&R jobs at large midwestern health care organizations. I say this because I feel you can be successful in PM&R or medicine despite what road you choose. Ill be honest that I think my DO colleagues had a better MSK experience and knowledge coming into residency than myself or my other MD colleagues, but I am equal to their skills and knowledge now with exception on OMM because I chose to train at a program known to be consistently strong in MSK, sports, pain, outpatient PM&R and things that I was interested in for my training. I think Dr. Zafonte at Harvard/Spaulding is an excellent example that a DO physiatrist can be one of the most well known and respected names in PM&R. Jon Finnoff is another DO that I respect and has mentored me in the sports MSK world and is one of the most well known PM&R docs, in leadership in PM&R and Sports organizations. The list could go on and on.

Know that MD might make an easier road for you because some people do not know what a DO is in areas of country. I see no difference in quality of my DO or MD trained colleagues in the top most competitive areas of PM&R. I think DOs are uniquely attracted to PM&R b/c of holistic approach shared in common, but many MD programs also teach their students to be holistic and to think about mind, body, spiritual issues and whole person as well. Whatever you choose you will be a physician, and if someone does not like the letters behind your name than that is more of a problem with them than you. I still think it is easier to get into DO programs based on scores, letters, experiences, but that is just because smaller number of programs and less known in certain regions what DO is.

Choose wisely. If you want to be PM&R doc, either will be great, and DO very well suited.

 

[Charlie Bravo]

If you can get into MD, always go to MD. While DO might say on paper its about holistic approach, how true this is is uncertain, and how much this matters is even less certain. In the end, most ppl going into DO are those who couldn't get into MD which is why some people view DO as inferior to MD [which is also demonstrated by the stats]

I smell a troll...

 

[@JackShephard]

To the OP and others. I struggled with this same decision as Pre-Med student. My first MCAT was not good but 2nd time I improved like 10 pts just by studying and not being overconfident. My father is a chiropractor who admits he wishes he would have gone to DO or MD and been a physiatrist or FP doc and if DO used OMM and manipulations. I digress, DO was very attractive to me because of that personal background and exposure as a child to a healthcare field that deals with pain, msk, wellness ect. I applied to many DO programs but also many MD programs, and I will be honest because my scores were still a bit low I got more DO invites than MD invites. I was actually set to attend a DO program and got waitlisted at two allopathic (MD) programs in home state where my fiance' was doing her RN training. I got last minute call that someone dropped out of one of the programs and did I want the MD spot, and I chose MD for personal and geographic reasons.

Mayo, Spaulding, RIC, UWashington, ect. all have fair share of DO and MD staff and trainees. As a Mayo senior resident, my class is great mix of DO and MD trained exactly half and half. Our two chiefs are DO. We had MDs match to ACGME Sports, Pain, SCI (even though not match) fellowship top choices (top 1-3 choices) and two DOs match to top 1-2 Pain fellowships. One DO and other MD got very competitive general PM&R jobs at large midwestern health care organizations. I say this because I feel you can be successful in PM&R or medicine despite what road you choose. Ill be honest that I think my DO colleagues had a better MSK experience and knowledge coming into residency than myself or my other MD colleagues, but I am equal to their skills and knowledge now with exception on OMM because I chose to train at a program known to be consistently strong in MSK, sports, pain, outpatient PM&R and things that I was interested in for my training. I think Dr. Zafonte at Harvard/Spaulding is an excellent example that a DO physiatrist can be one of the most well known and respected names in PM&R. Jon Finnoff is another DO that I respect and has mentored me in the sports MSK world and is one of the most well known PM&R docs, in leadership in PM&R and Sports organizations. The list could go on and on.

Know that MD might make an easier road for you because some people do not know what a DO is in areas of country. I see no difference in quality of my DO or MD trained colleagues in the top most competitive areas of PM&R. I think DOs are uniquely attracted to PM&R b/c of holistic approach shared in common, but many MD programs also teach their students to be holistic and to think about mind, body, spiritual issues and whole person as well. Whatever you choose you will be a physician, and if someone does not like the letters behind your name than that is more of a problem with them than you. I still think it is easier to get into DO programs based on scores, letters, experiences, but that is just because smaller number of programs and less known in certain regions what DO is.

Choose wisely. If you want to be PM&R doc, either will be great, and DO very well suited.

Key here is MD will have more opportunities.

It won't matter if you want to do PMR as much. But if you decide you want to be a Orthopedic surgeon, well MD is better.

True story: Very few people can understand or know what type of doctor they will be without hundreds or thousands of hours around patients and/or physicians practicing medicine.

 

[fozzy40]

I'd say that the "keys" are the decision to go DO or MD is a personal decision (philosophical, geographical, financial, etc.) In addition, the initials have never stopped any of my friends from their goals for residency, fellowship, or jobs.

I would also say that PM&R is becoming very competitive. It was one of the specialties that completely filled there spots along with ENT, Neurosurgery, Thoracic Surgery, and Plastic surgery.

Performance creates opportunities not initials, IMO.

 

[anbuitachi]

I smell a troll...

I see a troll.

 

[anbuitachi]

I'd say that the "keys" are the decision to go DO or MD is a personal decision (philosophical, geographical, financial, etc.) In addition, the initials have never stopped any of my friends from their goals for residency, fellowship, or jobs.

I would also say that PM&R is becoming very competitive. It was one of the specialties that completely filled there spots along with ENT, Neurosurgery, Thoracic Surgery, and Plastic surgery.

Performance creates opportunities not initials, IMO.

This is not neccessarily true. while people in DO also get into competitive specialties, it is easier doing so as a MD. This is similar to the advantage that you get by going to a higher ranked medical school over a lower ranked school. All things equal, they'll chose the student w/ higher ranked medical school. [this is also true for getting into medical school. i was specifically told my program committee member that for their program, they rank each student with a # and how great your school is, is one of the categories].

But again for PMR right now, the difference isnt' that much

 

[fozzy40]

This is not neccessarily true. while people in DO also get into competitive specialties, it is easier doing so as a MD.

I have plenty of DO friends that got into derm, neurosurgery, ENT, and ortho. My DO and MD friends who got into competitive residencies were great applicants, regardless. Neither group said it was easier.

 

[bedrock]

I have plenty of DO friends that got into derm, neurosurgery, ENT, and ortho. My DO and MD friends who got into competitive residencies were great applicants, regardless. Neither group said it was easier.

Your anecdotal evidence about your friends is nice, but it doesn't change the statistical fact that a higher percentage of MDs than DOs match to highly competive residencies.

I'm not saying that this selection bias is correct, but it is a fact. Sorry if that hurts your self-esteem.

 

[fozzy40]

Your anecdotal evidence about your friends is nice, but it doesn't change the statistical fact that a higher percentage of MDs than DOs match to highly competive residencies.

I'm not saying that this selection bias is correct, but it is a fact. Sorry if that hurts your self-esteem.

My anecdotes are still facts.

I do not know the exact probabilities of MDs vs. DOs that match into highly competitive residencies as you seem to. However, I would expect there to be a greater total amount given there are way more MDs schools and residencies. Plus, DOs historically tend to lean towards primary care specialties when compared to MD graduates. Leaning towards primary care specialties does not mean that DOs do not match into competitive specialties. So to any pre-meds reading this thread I would not assume that correlation equals causation necessarily.

My self-esteem is just fine as I've hit all my goals with the a DO behind my name while kicking butt along the way.

My points to the OP:
- I have excellent skills and I'm a great clinician because of my osteopathic training.
- being a DO has never held me back and my "anecdotal friends" from hitting their goals professionally.

 

[bedrock]

My anecdotes are still facts.

I do not know the exact probabilities of MDs vs. DOs that match into highly competitive residencies as you seem to. However, I would expect there to be a greater total amount given there are way more MDs schools and residencies. Plus, DOs historically tend to lean towards primary care specialties when compared to MD graduates. Leaning towards primary care specialties does not mean that DOs do not match into competitive specialties. So to any pre-meds reading this thread I would not assume that correlation equals causation necessarily.

My self-esteem is just fine as I've hit all my goals with the a DO behind my name while kicking butt along the way.

My points to the OP:
- I have excellent skills and I'm a great clinician because of my osteopathic training.
- being a DO has never held me back and my "anecdotal friends" from hitting their goals professionally.

Again you're misunderstanding my point on statistics. Do they require that for DO schools?


To be completely clear. Almost every DO I've met has been great doctor. I'm sure you are a great clinician.
I post again, not to fight with you but for the sake of the pre-meds on this forum.

If a pre-med is 100% sure they will do PMR or a primary care residency, and the DO approach appeals to them, then a DO school is great.

However the statistics on medical students demonstrate that less than half of those students ultimately choose the specialty they had in mind when they applied for medical school.

And you misunderstood what I said about the statistics of the match or just don't know them.
If you take the 6-7 most competitive residencies and compare the percentage of MDs that successfully matched to those residencies and then compare that MD percentage to the percentage of DOs that successfully matched to those same specialties, the MD percentage (which successfully matched) is MUCH HIGHER.

So again, lots of awesome docs that are DOs. If you are 100% completely sure you want to do PMR or primary care then choosing DO or MD depends on your mindset, geography, tuition, etc, but DO is a fine choice.

However, because more than half of med students change their intended specialty, if you are anything but 100% sure that PM&R or primary care is your future, then it is a better idea to go to US allopathic medical school if you can, because you will have a better chance to match into a competitive residency if you end up choosing one.

It's not my opinion, it's a statistical fact.

 

[fozzy40]

Again you're misunderstanding my point on statistics. Do they require that for DO schools?

To be completely clear. Almost every DO I've met has been great doctor. I'm sure you are a great clinician.
I post again, not to fight with you but for the sake of the pre-meds on this forum.

No misunderstanding on my part. I did not disagree with what you said in your previous post but stated I do not know the exact match percentage as you seem to. It does seem like you are speaking strictly about applicants applying to solely MD residencies. However, I was speaking to the fact that there are DO residencies in the same competitive residencies that osteopathic graduates are also eligible to match for in addition to allopathic spots.

My point to the OP is that being an osteopathic graduate has never limited peoples options whether it be competitive or noncompetitive specialties.

Yes, they teach statistics in osteopathic schools.
No, I did not misunderstand your point.

Final message to OP and Pre-Meds:
My anecdotal friends and I are very happy with our decision to pursue an osteopathic education as we have matched into our residencies of choice, both competitive and noncompetitive.

 

[melancholy]

I am a practicing DO after having gone through PM&R residency and ACGME anesthesia-based pain fellowship. In retrospect, I do think there are still some instances in the world where you may get more opportunities with an MD degree, but that may speak to many factors including the individual medical school you attend, the experiences and rotations you get access to, the specialties you are interested in, etc. That being said, I can think of several examples of DO's in many different specialties and every different practice environment. DO's are everywhere from professional sports, olympics, government positions, academic institutions, TV/media, etc. Working hard, being the best med student you can be, being a good team player are really the key no matter what path one takes to diminish any disadvantages to either side. I do think there are some inherent advantages with hands-on skills as a DO in certain fields, but some skills can be gained and utilized to great benefit with a motivated allopathic graduate.

I do agree with bedrock's comments above. There is much wisdom to that. It may still be preliminary to use a specialty interest to determine what type of medical school to apply to.

 

[Xardas]

Residency spots when it comes down to say the choice between last two becomes literally a crap shot. Personality, hobbies, and stuff will make the difference.

I think you guys who are applying really need to understand personality and interview skills can make a massive difference in your life at all stages of your career.

I graduated from a "top tier" program and am friends with the chairman still. The above holds true and if he likes you more and you have a DO you are getting the spot.

 

[lossnwilderness]

Again you're misunderstanding my point on statistics. Do they require that for DO schools?


To be completely clear. Almost every DO I've met has been great doctor. I'm sure you are a great clinician.
I post again, not to fight with you but for the sake of the pre-meds on this forum.

If a pre-med is 100% sure they will do PMR or a primary care residency, and the DO approach appeals to them, then a DO school is great.

However the statistics on medical students demonstrate that less than half of those students ultimately choose the specialty they had in mind when they applied for medical school.

And you misunderstood what I said about the statistics of the match or just don't know them.
If you take the 6-7 most competitive residencies and compare the percentage of MDs that successfully matched to those residencies and then compare that MD percentage to the percentage of DOs that successfully matched to those same specialties, the MD percentage (which successfully matched) is MUCH HIGHER.

So again, lots of awesome docs that are DOs. If you are 100% completely sure you want to do PMR or primary care then choosing DO or MD depends on your mindset, geography, tuition, etc, but DO is a fine choice.

However, because more than half of med students change their intended specialty, if you are anything but 100% sure that PM&R or primary care is your future, then it is a better idea to go to US allopathic medical school if you can, because you will have a better chance to match into a competitive residency if you end up choosing one.

It's not my opinion, it's a statistical fact.

I completely agree. When you are starting medical school you do not know for sure what you will be doing upon graduation. Therefore, to place yourself in the best position you should obtain a MD. PM&R is DO friendly...everyone is not.

Besides, the match is getting ridiculously competitive just in general. There is no longer the guarantee you can go to medical school, graduate, and secure a great job. Not only should you go to a MD school, make sure you don't fail ANYTHING.

There is another thread that speaks on the competitiveness of PM&R. Let's be real people and stop pretending that just because PM&R filled completely it is ultra competitive, because it is not. As others pointed out, competiveness is based on the percentage of US MD senior graduates (not even prior US MD graduates). So, please don't come on this message board and give people poor advice about something that will affect them for the rest of their lives. We can all point out exceptions to the rules, but statistics are statistics and it points to several things:

1) the match is now even a more s****y process
2) MD > DO
3) all specialties beyond primary care are coveted
4) going to medical school will not guarantee you will be able to practice as a physician

Are there great DO physicians, yes...but we are talking about statistics not how we feel.

 

[fozzy40]

I know stastically that MDs applicants tend to higher on standardized tests. Can you guys cite the studies about higher first choice match percentage? I'm curious now with the studies you are referring to.

 

[fozzy40]

Any citations? Thanks gang

 

[amar314]

Thought I'd come back to this thread to offer some sources as to why I still believe DOs have an edge in PM&R that MDs don't, however, this fact benefits the patient (not what program you get into... b/c I still feel that MDs are unfortunately recognized as superior) b/c a DO will most likely have more knowledge in the holistic approach and musculoskeletal system focus because the truth is that DO schools' core is osteopathic medicine, something that MDs have little knowledge of.

http://eyedrd.org/2010/11/relevance-of-osteopathic-medicine.html
http://thedo.osteopathic.org/2012/04/dos-a-natural-fit-for-physical-medicine-and-rehabilitation/

 

[Baritonebass]

Thought I'd come back to this thread to offer some sources as to why I still believe DOs have an edge in PM&R that MDs don't, however, this fact benefits the patient (not what program you get into... b/c I still feel that MDs are unfortunately recognized as superior) b/c a DO will most likely have more knowledge in the holistic approach and musculoskeletal system focus because the truth is that DO schools' core is osteopathic medicine, something that MDs have little knowledge of.

http://eyedrd.org/2010/11/relevance-of-osteopathic-medicine.html
http://thedo.osteopathic.org/2012/04/dos-a-natural-fit-for-physical-medicine-and-rehabilitation/

I think the thousands of hours you spend in a residency training program learning and studying have more bearing on your quality as a physician. Clinical guide line and practice habits are learned in residency and fellowship.

 

[Xardas]

Thought I'd come back to this thread to offer some sources as to why I still believe DOs have an edge in PM&R that MDs don't, however, this fact benefits the patient (not what program you get into... b/c I still feel that MDs are unfortunately recognized as superior) b/c a DO will most likely have more knowledge in the holistic approach and musculoskeletal system focus because the truth is that DO schools' core is osteopathic medicine, something that MDs have little knowledge of.

http://eyedrd.org/2010/11/relevance-of-osteopathic-medicine.html
http://thedo.osteopathic.org/2012/04/dos-a-natural-fit-for-physical-medicine-and-rehabilitation/

Again, as someone who's actually been practicing medicine for a while I'm going to say all this may sound great in theory but not going to make a difference. I've met bad MDs and Do's in all specialties including PMR, and I've met good MD's and DO's in PMR.

Your ability to be a great physician is determined by your passion for knowledge, your ability to be compassionate and relate to patients and family, and your general interest in the field. It is not determined by the last two letters on your white coat.

Once you get your foot in the door its all up to you. Nobody in the doctor's dining room at the hospital honestly cares who is MD or DO, and I think I've met maybe one patient in my life who made a big deal about it.

Disclaimer: I'm an MD.

 

[DermViser]

I have plenty of DO friends that got into derm, neurosurgery, ENT, and ortho. My DO and MD friends who got into competitive residencies were great applicants, regardless. Neither group said it was easier.

Their residencies were also protected from MD encroachment. The COMLEX is also an easier exam than the USMLE.

 

[avatar]

1) while i agree that DOs have better MSK training, you may change your mind about PM&R. I started out med school pretty darn sure I wanted to do cardiology. Then it was ER. I didn't even know about PM&R until my M3. I then spent the first two years of residency convinced I was going to do TbI

2) despite what anyone may say on this particular board and despite plenty of anecdotal evidence that DO's do just fine, the Fact is, most MDs and most programs in most fields look down on DOs. Two examples - when we used to play in our city's inter-med school softball tourney, the standard taunt when the osteopathic college students were at bat was, "what's the matter, couldn't get into an allopathic school?"

Second - the program coordinator at the ortho program at my institution saw that they had a DO resident one year and commented, "huh, I guess a DO can be an orthopod these days...why not?"

Right or wrong, the prejudice exists

3) Even if they are not malicious about it, program directors I know have commented that they simply do not know how to measure a DO against an MD because they know nothing about the process, not having been through it themselves (I.e. they know how to interpret USMLE scores, but who the F knows what a COMLEX score even means?)

Go with MD. It will always leave you with more options, and that's really what u want at the start of your career.

 

[Prof Moriarty]

despite plenty of anecdotal evidence that DO's do just fine, the Fact is, most MDs and most programs in most fields look down on DOs.

...followed by several anecdotes masquerading as "facts."

when we used to play in our city's inter-med school softball tourney, the standard taunt when the osteopathic college students were at bat was, "what's the matter, couldn't get into an allopathic school?"

So you guys were d!cks. So what. What did you say after they beat you?

the program coordinator at the ortho program at my institution saw that they had a DO resident one year and commented, "huh, I guess a DO can be an orthopod these days...why not?"

Who cares what your program coordinator thinks? Orthosurg is a competitive field, MD or DO. Many DO's choosing ortho or other highly competitive fields go through the osteopathic match.

they know how to interpret USMLE scores, but who the F knows what a COMLEX score even means?)

It's pretty simple stuff actually. But DO's who are concerned about this can take the USMLE.

To the OP, there is nothing wrong with going either MD or DO. While I agree that MD is a simpler choice and does not carry any baggage, osteopathic medical school does have some unique aspects that some will find appealing, and if you are good you will still have the opportunity to do what you want. What matters most is that you're good at what you do, you're reliable, and you take good care of patients. I would add that it's also important to continue to develop a rewarding personality, for yourself and those around you, though this is not stressed in medical training...

 

[Dharma]

Their residencies were also protected from MD encroachment. The COMLEX is also an easier exam than the USMLE.

Did you take the COMLEX? The general consensus is that it's a whack exam with very little predictability, loaded with useless trivia and written like crap at times, but most don't claim it's easier.

 

[Dharma]

1) while i agree that DOs have better MSK training, you may change your mind about PM&R. I started out med school pretty darn sure I wanted to do cardiology. Then it was ER. I didn't even know about PM&R until my M3. I then spent the first two years of residency convinced I was going to do TbI

2) despite what anyone may say on this particular board and despite plenty of anecdotal evidence that DO's do just fine, the Fact is, most MDs and most programs in most fields look down on DOs. Two examples - when we used to play in our city's inter-med school softball tourney, the standard taunt when the osteopathic college students were at bat was, "what's the matter, couldn't get into an allopathic school?"

Second - the program coordinator at the ortho program at my institution saw that they had a DO resident one year and commented, "huh, I guess a DO can be an orthopod these days...why not?"

Right or wrong, the prejudice exists

3) Even if they are not malicious about it, program directors I know have commented that they simply do not know how to measure a DO against an MD because they know nothing about the process, not having been through it themselves (I.e. they know how to interpret USMLE scores, but who the F knows what a COMLEX score even means?)

Go with MD. It will always leave you with more options, and that's really what u want at the start of your career.

I agree with the last sentence and point 3, which is why folks should take the USMLE. Point 2 is ridiculous though. Is this the pre-med forum?

 

[Dharma]

We can all point out exceptions to the rules, but statistics are statistics and it points to several things:

1) the match is now even a more s****y process
2) MD > DO
3) all specialties beyond primary care are coveted
4) going to medical school will not guarantee you will be able to practice as a physician

Are there great DO physicians, yes...but we are talking about statistics not how we feel.

Yeah, where are your stats claiming MD >DO and how great DO physicians are more of an exception to the norm as compared to MDs? Maybe I'm just misinterpreting your vague statements that seemed to be spiced with multiple dashes of condescension. Are these statements seriously coming from a resident?

I don't think anyone would disagree that the DO degree comes with an uphill battle in some of the more competitive fields.

 

[lejeunesage]

I understand why people would feel irritated and somewhat defensive about the idea that having an MD could have more advantages than having a DO degree, but unfair as it might be, some institutions won't even consider DOs, regardless of board scores. It's silly, if you ask me, but no one can deny the fact that it does go on. So, given the choice, everything else being equal, you have a little bit of a leg up being an MD. That said, if you do go to DO school, it's not to say that you need to give up your goals, but the path to certain competitive institutions/specialties is a bit harder to tread.

 

[Prof Moriarty]

There are DO's at every major academic medical institution in the US. Many in positions of leadership. Not because they're DO's, but because they're good at what they do. If you want to apply to Hopkins neurosurg, yeah, you should probably have a back up plan. Just like 99% of the MD applicants. Are there certain departments within certain institutions where DO's have not penetrated? Sure. Is this trend dying off as the old guard retires? Yes. Are we in junior high school here? I didn't think so. Are we in the ortho surg forum here? No. The OP asked about PM&R. There are good reasons to choose either MD or DO, depending on an individuals motivations. It is overly simplistic and sophomoric to say "some elite dept won't look at you so don't do it."

Considering how idiotic this thread is to begin with, I'm kicking myself for posting twice!

 

[j4pac]

Will MD programs discriminate against DOs? A few will...sure. But PM&R is probably one the specialties that does that the least. The reason is simple...the MSK training at the average DO program is significantly better than at MD programs. OMT...though certainly not a cure-all does provide a pretty good MSK background and it is something to throw into your bag of tricks. Considering that PM&R cherishes modalities...DOs start their residency with a skill that most of their MD counterparts will never have.

That's not to say that DO PM&R residents are better...but you can see how a highly qualified DO student could be an attractive candidate.

If I had to do it all over again...I wouldn't trade in my DO. Not a chance. But with that said...in other specialties...there is definitely an MD slant. Your chances of getting a competitive residency in practically any other specialty is improved by coming from a reputable MD program. Go to the place that would provide you the BEST OVERALL learning environment. Be well rounded. You may find out that PM&R is not for you and be kicking yourself for going DO. MD is still a SAFER bet on the whole.