If NP outcome studies are

[nowaysanjose]

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basically just NPs supervised by physicians in self-limiting, primary care situations, why not just design a similar study and replace NPs with third year med students? It would show how worthless these studies are without having to explain every detail.

 

[BurghStudent]

Plenty of states have independent NPs. Study them. Determine their referral and test utilization rate.

 

[Psai]

Why even waste time and money with these stupid studies

 

[Raryn]

basically just NPs supervised by physicians in self-limiting, primary care situations, why not just design a similar study and replace NPs with third year med students? It would show how worthless these studies are without having to explain every detail.

While I'm the first one to argue NPs are nowhere near equivalent to a trained physician, I don't think you quite understand just how useless a third year medical student is. With an appropriately set up clinic and reasonable supervision, an NP allows a physician to care for significantly more patients in any given amount of time. If you actually spend the appropriate time supervising/teaching an M3, you end up caring for significantly fewer patients in any given amount of time ("Show me a medical student that only triples my work and I will kiss his feet").

An M4 would be more reasonable depending on the clinic setting.

 

[MSTP18]

Also NPs aren't limited to primary care (we have them in our ICUs)

 

[Raryn]

Also NPs aren't limited to primary care (we have them in our ICUs)

One could argue it's a lot easier to utilize a midlevel in a specialty clinic than primary care.

Assuming they're reasonably well-supervised (that is, the attending reviews and is available for any issues), a lot of the routine f/u done in a subspecialty clinic can be pawned off to a PA/NP. Not saying that they should ever be the ones seeing an initial subspecialty consult (I think that's absurd when it happens), but the simple visit to f/u labs? Yeah, that's reasonable.

 

[Psai]

One could argue it's a lot easier to utilize a midlevel in a specialty clinic than primary care.

Assuming they're reasonably well-supervised (that is, the attending reviews and is available for any issues), a lot of the routine f/u done in a subspecialty clinic can be pawned off to a PA/NP. Not saying that they should ever be the ones seeing an initial subspecialty consult (I think that's absurd when it happens), but the simple visit to f/u labs? Yeah, that's reasonable.

I will never forget the time when we were trying to rule out nonconvulsive status in a patient by putting a veeg on them and the neurologist sends in their np for the initial consult because it's saturday. The midlevel didn't know **** about eegs and we were like so why are you here?

 

[Beezlebub]

misread. apologies.

 

[Panteleimon & Nightingale]

A Systematic Review:

http://www.mc.vanderbilt.edu/docume... of Primary Care Advanced Practice Nurses.pdf