If osteopaths have the same privileges as allopaths then how come more people...

[postbacpremed87]

---

Members do not see this ad.

aren't applying to DO schools? I have researched that they pretty much have the same education, same pay, and can get into some allopathic residencies other than primary care (emergency medicine, general surg, rads). What gives?

 

[costales]

Who knows - to each his own. Is this going to be another MD vs DO thread?

 

[DrWily]

aren't applying to DO schools? I have researched that they pretty much have the same education, same pay, and can get into some allopathic residencies other than primary care (emergency medicine, general surg, rads). What gives?

Ignorance? Lack of knowledge/exposure with Osteopathy? General stigma that most pre-meds have against D.O.s? 175 M.D. schools vs 30 D.O. schools?

 

[nicknickp3]

Absolute ignorance, at my university I would say 90% of pre-meds don't know what a D.O. is.

 

[costales]

Absolute ignorance, at my university I would say 90% of pre-meds don't know what a D.O. is.

And almost everyone who actually works in healthcare knows what a DO is.

 

[st2205]

The same reason why board certified ENTs can practice ENT in Los Angeles or they can practice ENT in Greenfield, Ohio, but many more end up opting for Los Angeles.

 

[moto_za]

Prestige.

 

[TriagePreMed]

In general, ignorance. There's also ego problems. This guy I met at a community college said to me he'll be applying only to top 10 medical schools. He says if he's rejected, he'll apply again only to those 10. Why? Because he thinks that's the only way to get a good job. He literally believes some doctors are unemployed. I asked him what he thought about DO. His response, "I'm not applying to any of those. They are not real doctors, and even if they get to find a good job, it's like obama being black; it doesn't mean most blacks are out of the ghetto."

The good news is that idiot will never make it into any medical school. Even though he has a 3.6, he's missing most of his chem (got B in chem 1) and physics. Not only that, but he plans to transfer to Berkeley as a Molecular Toxicology major. He'll have a fun time getting destroyed there.

 

[JeetKuneDo]

In general, ignorance. There's also ego problems. This guy I met at a community college said to me he'll be applying only to top 10 medical schools. He says if he's rejected, he'll apply again only to those 10. Why? Because he thinks that's the only way to get a good job. He literally believes some doctors are unemployed. I asked him what he thought about DO. His response, "I'm not applying to any of those. They are not real doctors, and even if they get to find a good job, it's like obama being black; it doesn't mean most blacks are out of the ghetto."

The good news is that idiot will never make it into any medical school. Even though he has a 3.6, he's missing most of his chem (got B in chem 1) and physics. Not only that, but he plans to transfer to Berkeley as a Molecular Toxicology major. He'll have a fun time getting destroyed there.

What's even better than your story? A fellow employee at my work is only applying to one school: Harvard.

 

[K31]

No matter the cause, DO students are at a disadvantage in the match as compared to MD students. Why handicap yourself unnecessarily?

 

[1TB4RKSB4CK]

^ It's not that much of a disadvantage.

 

[Bacchus]

In general, ignorance. There's also ego problems. This guy I met at a community college said to me he'll be applying only to top 10 medical schools. He says if he's rejected, he'll apply again only to those 10. Why? Because he thinks that's the only way to get a good job. He literally believes some doctors are unemployed. I asked him what he thought about DO. His response, "I'm not applying to any of those. They are not real doctors, and even if they get to find a good job, it's like obama being black; it doesn't mean most blacks are out of the ghetto."

The good news is that idiot will never make it into any medical school. Even though he has a 3.6, he's missing most of his chem (got B in chem 1) and physics. Not only that, but he plans to transfer to Berkeley as a Molecular Toxicology major. He'll have a fun time getting destroyed there.

Unnecessary. And for what its worth: I got a B- in Bio I, a B/B- in Chem I/II, and a A-/B+ in Physics I/II. I'm on rotations. I've made it.

 

[simondimond]

look, everybody wants the MD but if you can't get it, most everybody will take the DO.

I do know a handful of people who applied DO only because they believe in their philosophy and approach to the patient.

My cousin is a DO and he told it to me like this...

You are going to have two groups of DO's. Those who want nothing to do with DO philosophy and those who are strict DO's. The former is much greater.

 

[Girl Please]

No matter the cause, DO students are at a disadvantage in the match as compared to MD students. Why handicap yourself unnecessarily?

DO students have significantly lower admission statistics than MD students and people equate this with DOs being "inferior" to MD students. A lot of pre-meds are egotistical and thus don't want to be perceived as inferior so they don't bother applying to DO as back-up.

 

[techko]

sounds like the anti-do crusader "And I Was Like" is back in this thread with his "significantly lower statistics" crap.. tired old schtick
compare his posts last week at
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=839629
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=852353

 

[Kekeirda]

I can only speak for myself, but I think that many pre-meds feel similar.

It really comes down to pride. Many premeds have put in alot of effort to be at the top of their classes, and be 'the best' at what they are doing. By applying DO they are admitting that they are not as competitive as someone who applies MD.

Furthermore, most pre-meds (that I've met) want to specialize, and DO's are at a disadvantage for competitive specialties. (I know what the numbers are and I know they aren't that bad for DO's) But it is a needless disadvantage if you can get accepted to an MD school.

 

[DocEspana]

DO students have significantly lower admission statistics than MD students and people equate this with DOs being "inferior" to MD students. A lot of pre-meds are egotistical and thus don't want to be perceived as inferior so they don't bother applying to DO as back-up.

significantly? really?

 

[techko]

DO students have significantly lower admission statistics than MD students and people equate this with DOs being "inferior" to MD students. A lot of pre-meds are egotistical and thus don't want to be perceived as inferior so they don't bother applying to DO as back-up.

ok folks...get ready for another stat lesson from "And I Was Like"

 

[DocEspana]

DO students have significantly lower admission statistics than MD students and people equate this with DOs being "inferior" to MD students. A lot of pre-meds are egotistical and thus don't want to be perceived as inferior so they don't bother applying to DO as back-up.

ok folks...get ready for another stat lesson from "And I Was Like"

Well the second half is right.... a lot of people do get serious ego complexes and refuse to apply. I know plenty, including someone who got a 25 on her first MCAT despite having strong grades and refused to even consider a DO school because it was beneath her. She retook the MCAT got a 26 and squeaked into qualifying for her direct to MD bridge program as 26 was the minimum score required.

I am personally someone who does buy into the MCAT being a *decent* (far from perfect) benchmark of future performance. I cant wait to see how well she'll do in med school barely able to pull a 26 on her second time out but turning her nose up to DO schools as beneath her.

 

[TriagePreMed]

Unnecessary. And for what its worth: I got a B- in Bio I, a B/B- in Chem I/II, and a A-/B+ in Physics I/II. I'm on rotations. I've made it.

You're missing my point. Even I've gotten a B in chem 1. The point is this guy is only applying to top 10 schools. Or maybe you got into top 10 MD with those grades?

 

[Mbeas]

aren't applying to DO schools? I have researched that they pretty much have the same education, same pay, and can get into some allopathic residencies other than primary care (emergency medicine, general surg, rads). What gives?

More people ARE applying to DO schools.....

http://www.aacom.org/data/Documents/Trends-apps-enroll-grads.pdf

 

[SLC]

I only applied DO, wanted nothing to do with MD actually. Had my stats been amazing nothing would have changed; I decided on DO very early on in my undergrad career.

Here's why:

I've worked in health care for a long time and had a few different, but unifying experiences when it comes to MD vs. DO.

1. I lived next to an MD school (my undergrad) and most of my neighbors were students there. Not a 1 of them ever seemed happy, and the vast majority were actually quite vocal about their displeasure with medical school. Then, the MD physicians I know almost invariably told me to forget medicine, that it was a mistake, and that I'd never make any money at it (as though that is what I'm worried about). They told me that the healthcare reform would ruin my ability to enjoy what I do, and that there were better things to do with my time. That was tough to hear, because I've wanted this for years, and can't see myself doing anything else.

2. The few residents and students who were DO's that I've had chance to interact with were almost invariably happy with their experience and really took me under their wing and told me how awesome med-school was etc. They're the only ones who've told me they'd do it all over again if given the chance. They seemed genuinely happy, well adjusted, and friendly. The same goes for the few DO attendings I've interacted with.

3. The MD residents I've met have all expressed a bit of envy of the DO's they worked with. Not because of the degree, but because they all tell me that the DO's hit residency MUCH better prepared. This is especially evident in fields like Orthopedics, PM&R, and Neurology, where the superior NMSK training of the DO appears to pay huge dividends. I've literally had residents tell me "you're going DO?, man the DO's in my program are so far ahead of us it's not even funny. They have all these skills that we haven't even seen, and they almost make us look silly." (And no, that's not an exaggeration, it's exactly what one Neurology resident that was pulling a shift in my clinic told me).

4. The MD attendings, when they heard about my interest in DO have told me things like "you'll be a better patient's doctor", or "DO students hit rotations, and residency well ahead of the MD's I've worked with". The pediatrician I worked with at my clinic regularly precepts medical students from the local MD school (in Utah, figure it out), once though we had a KCOM student come through; at the end all she could do was rave about how he was miles ahead of any other student she'd precepted up to that point.

All of this is just my experience with actual students, residents, and attendings. But I've been heavily immersed in medicine for the past 5 or so years.

Another reason I chose DO and didn't apply MD was because of my undergraduate degree. My degree taught me a lot about health promotion, and sitting down with someone and tailoring a health improvement plan based on their situation and their lifestyle. This really aligns with the holistic philosophy that is central to osteopathic medicine. It's not that I couldn't do this as an MD, just that DO's have these types of ideas as a central theme to the way they are trained, and they way they should approach the patient.

Finally, my interactions with lay people who see DO's has been very positive. I've never heard anyone rave about their doctor the way DO patients rave about their doctors. Mostly I'm told that they finally feel like they've found a doctor who listens to them, works with them, and makes them feel like a partner in the process of health care. I want to be a part of that.

 

[Mbeas]

DO students have significantly lower admission statistics than MD students and people equate this with DOs being "inferior" to MD students.

Which people?

 

[Instatewaiter]

No matter the cause, DO students are at a disadvantage in the match as compared to MD students. Why handicap yourself unnecessarily?

^ It's not that much of a disadvantage.

Yeah, it is. Almost a 25% difference in match rate.
http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddata2011.pdf (page 17)

Osteopathic Match rate- 71%
Allopathic match rate- 94%

 

[SLC]

Yeah, it is. Almost a 25% difference in match rate.
http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddata2011.pdf (page 17)

Osteopathic Match rate- 71%
Allopathic match rate- 94%

Give us the stats for Allopaths in the Osteopathic Match! That'll show you a disparity (tongue-in-cheek of course)

I don't think this stat should be used to try and show DO's as disadvantaged for matching because we have a whole other match to participate in that's unique to only DO's. I've never bothered to look into statistics, but I'm sure once all options available to both groups of students are taken into account, that DO's match at very similar rates to MD's.

 

[stefspets]

I really love these threads and the assumption that "everyone" would take the MD over DO.

My number one choice is a DO school. It is not because I "can't" get into an MD school (remains to be seen in this cycle). I love the school because the students are happy and well-adjusted and I love the school's philosophy.

I'm married to a DO. We went through residency applications/the match. He applied late to psychiatry (changed his mind mid-cycle) but had no issues getting interviews and matched to his #1 choice (ACGME program). Yes, the specialty is not competitive, but I think premeds really over inflate the problems DOs have with residency. If you have the board scores and apply appropriately you should be able to get the specialty you want.

 

[elftown]

Yeah, it is. Almost a 25% difference in match rate.
http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddata2011.pdf (page 17)

Osteopathic Match rate- 71%
Allopathic match rate- 94%

Those numbers mean nothing.

 

[SesameStreetDoc]

". . . everybody wants the MD but if you can't get it, most everybody will take the DO."

and

"Those who want nothing to do with DO philosophy and those who are strict DO's."

I take issue with both of these statements. First, there are plenty of people who choose Osteopathic medicine over allopathic. Not everyone wants MDs, including patients.

Second, the idea that there are only hardcore DOs or anti-osteo DOs is ridiculous. True, not all DOs practice OMT, but there is quite a range in there, from DOs who practice both the philosophy and OMT, to those who practice the philosophy but not OMT, to those who practice neither (and plenty of variation in between).

 

[AACmd]

I started shadowing DOs fairly late in the game and I will say this, I was extremely impressed by the way DOs cared for their patients when compared to MDs. One DO I shadowed literally spent at least 45 minutes (sometimes over an hour) with a single patient. He would compute every aspect of their lifestyle into his assessment and treatment plan. Now, I'm not saying that makes him a better healer than an MD, but the effort definitely counts in my book. That is the type of doc that I would want treating me.

 

[HockeyDr09]

Yeah, it is. Almost a 25% difference in match rate.
http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddata2011.pdf (page 17)

Osteopathic Match rate- 71%
Allopathic match rate- 94%

No, it's not.

Osteopathic Match rate - 89.2%
"Allopathic" Match rate - 94.4%

5% difference.

You're a resident AND you've posted in the thread that proves the match rates I've listed above. You should know better.

 

[Girl Please]

I only applied DO, wanted nothing to do with MD actually. Had my stats been amazing nothing would have changed; I decided on DO very early on in my undergrad career.

Here's why:

I've worked in health care for a long time and had a few different, but unifying experiences when it comes to MD vs. DO.

1. I lived next to an MD school (my undergrad) and most of my neighbors were students there. Not a 1 of them ever seemed happy, and the vast majority were actually quite vocal about their displeasure with medical school. Then, the MD physicians I know almost invariably told me to forget medicine, that it was a mistake, and that I'd never make any money at it (as though that is what I'm worried about). They told me that the healthcare reform would ruin my ability to enjoy what I do, and that there were better things to do with my time. That was tough to hear, because I've wanted this for years, and can't see myself doing anything else.

2. The few residents and students who were DO's that I've had chance to interact with were almost invariably happy with their experience and really took me under their wing and told me how awesome med-school was etc. They're the only ones who've told me they'd do it all over again if given the chance. They seemed genuinely happy, well adjusted, and friendly. The same goes for the few DO attendings I've interacted with.

3. The MD residents I've met have all expressed a bit of envy of the DO's they worked with. Not because of the degree, but because they all tell me that the DO's hit residency MUCH better prepared. This is especially evident in fields like Orthopedics, PM&R, and Neurology, where the superior NMSK training of the DO appears to pay huge dividends. I've literally had residents tell me "you're going DO?, man the DO's in my program are so far ahead of us it's not even funny. They have all these skills that we haven't even seen, and they almost make us look silly." (And no, that's not an exaggeration, it's exactly what one Neurology resident that was pulling a shift in my clinic told me).

4. The MD attendings, when they heard about my interest in DO have told me things like "you'll be a better patient's doctor", or "DO students hit rotations, and residency well ahead of the MD's I've worked with". The pediatrician I worked with at my clinic regularly precepts medical students from the local MD school (in Utah, figure it out), once though we had a KCOM student come through; at the end all she could do was rave about how he was miles ahead of any other student she'd precepted up to that point.

All of this is just my experience with actual students, residents, and attendings. But I've been heavily immersed in medicine for the past 5 or so years.

Another reason I chose DO and didn't apply MD was because of my undergraduate degree. My degree taught me a lot about health promotion, and sitting down with someone and tailoring a health improvement plan based on their situation and their lifestyle. This really aligns with the holistic philosophy that is central to osteopathic medicine. It's not that I couldn't do this as an MD, just that DO's have these types of ideas as a central theme to the way they are trained, and they way they should approach the patient.

Finally, my interactions with lay people who see DO's has been very positive. I've never heard anyone rave about their doctor the way DO patients rave about their doctors. Mostly I'm told that they finally feel like they've found a doctor who listens to them, works with them, and makes them feel like a partner in the process of health care. I want to be a part of that.

Yeah, too long didn't read. I get the feeling your going to say DO students are more Humanistic, or tell some sappy story about how DO was right for you because you have a 25 MCAT and 3.3 GPA.

In reality, 98+% of people (the stats are listed on the AOA website with little over 1.4% claiming they choose DO over MD, but this is self-reported and thus the actual number is likely lower) will choose any US MD school over a US DO school. DO schools are back-ups. I'm saying this as a DO student, if I would have gotten accepted to a MD school I would have gone in a heartbeat like most of you would have.

Also, DO residencies are simply inferior, no two ways about it, to MD residencies. Most MD residencies are at academic medical centers, while even most of the top DO residencies are still at community hospitals. Hell, Botsford in Michigan - if you ask 10 normal people what they think about that hospital they will tell you it's bad.

Here's the truth: 99+% of us DO students are MD-rejects, or we simply didn't apply MD because we knew we would be rejected. There's nothing wrong with this, and the moment we start acknowledging this and proving to the public we're just as good physicians is the moment MD vs. DO debates will end.

 

[techko]

Yeah, too long didn't read. I get the feeling your going to say DO students are more Humanistic, or tell some sappy story about how DO was right for you because you have a 25 MCAT and 3.3 GPA.

In reality, 98+% of people (the stats are listed on the AOA website with little over 1.4% claiming they choose DO over MD, but this is self-reported and thus the actual number is likely lower) will choose any US MD school over a US DO school. DO schools are back-ups. I'm saying this as a DO student, if I would have gotten accepted to a MD school I would have gone in a heartbeat like most of you would have.

Also, DO residencies are simply inferior, no two ways about it, to MD residencies. Most MD residencies are at academic medical centers, while even most of the top DO residencies are still at community hospitals. Hell, Botsford in Michigan - if you ask 10 normal people what they think about that hospital they will tell you it's bad.

Here's the truth: 99+% of us DO students are MD-rejects, or we simply didn't apply MD because we knew we would be rejected. There's nothing wrong with this, and the moment we start acknowledging this and proving to the public we're just as good physicians is the moment MD vs. DO debates will end.

i repeat my dx: "Girl Please" = "And I Was Like" who is now pretending to be a do student
so the do's need to start proving to the public that they're good physicians?
give up, troll... tos violation

 

[Iliketoytles]

i repeat my dx: "Girl Please" = "And I Was Like" who is now pretending to be a do student
so the do's need to start proving to the public that they're good physicians?
give up, troll... tos violation

Lol yeah. It's pretty obvious.

 

[Girl Please]

i repeat my dx: "Girl Please" = "And I Was Like" who is now pretending to be a do student
so the do's need to start proving to the public that they're good physicians?
give up, troll... tos violation

I have no idea who you are, or why your equating me with someone I'm not.

 

[K31]

^ It's not that much of a disadvantage.

In the 2011 match graduates of osteopathic schools had a 71.7% chance of successfully matching. While better than graduates of foreign medical schools (50% and 40.9% for US citizens and non-citizens, respectively), it is much worse than MD students (94.1%).

 

[Kekeirda]

In the 2011 match graduates of osteopathic schools had a 71.7% chance of successfully matching. While better than graduates of foreign medical schools (50% and 40.9% for US citizens and non-citizens, respectively), it is much worse than MD students (94.1%).

That data only includes NRMP matches. If you also include the AOA matches it is a 5% discrepancy with MD's.

 

[Kekeirda]

That data only includes NRMP matches. If you also include the AOA matches it is a 5% discrepancy.

And I'm not sheepish about admitting that i would rather go MD and that DO is my backup

 

[techko]

That data only includes NRMP matches. If you also include the AOA matches it is a 5% discrepancy.

right...same difference. otherwise you'd have 29% do unemployment which is patent nonsense

 

[Kuba]

There are three kinds of lies: Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics. You guess will all laugh at how silly these arguments are once you actually learn something.

 

[AACmd]

And I'm not sheepish about admitting that i would rather go MD and that DO is my backup

I definitely don't feel that way. Maybe I'm one of the few but I really like the idea of osteopathic medicine. I'm a FL resident and I applied to all 7 MD/ 2 DO schools, and I would definitely choose either DO school over some of the MD schools. Not because I think those MD schools are bad, but because I believe the DO schools are actually really good, maybe even better.

I've been accepted at LECOM-B and interviewed at NSUCOM and fwiw, I'm really excited about learning osteopathic medicine. 😳

 

[DocEspana]

right...same difference. otherwise you'd have 29% do unemployment which is patent nonsense

You have ~50% offshore "unemployment" and no one really seems all that concerned.

 

[SoulinNeed]

It's usually because they don't know what a DO is, but shoot I wish even fewer knew about it! It would make competition easier, lol.

 

[TriagePreMed]

i repeat my dx: "Girl Please" = "And I Was Like" who is now pretending to be a do student
so the do's need to start proving to the public that they're good physicians?
give up, troll... tos violation

Of course it is. "And I was Like" "Girl Please." It even follows. I hope he gets IP banned.

 

[DrMaximus]

It's usually because they don't know what a DO is, but shoot I wish even fewer knew about it! It would make competition easier, lol.

Haha. =P Finally, something funny. Geez, people need to lighten up.

Look, most of us just want to become a physician. I admit that some really like the philosophy of osteopathic practice (me included), but most of us would just be happy to get accepted anywhere. We're all going to work together one day and no one is going to care what our degree is. The ones that do probably aren't going to be people's favorite doc to be around anyways.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[drctother]

Yeah, too long didn't read. I get the feeling your going to say DO students are more Humanistic, or tell some sappy story about how DO was right for you because you have a 25 MCAT and 3.3 GPA.

In reality, 98+% of people (the stats are listed on the AOA website with little over 1.4% claiming they choose DO over MD, but this is self-reported and thus the actual number is likely lower) will choose any US MD school over a US DO school. DO schools are back-ups. I'm saying this as a DO student, if I would have gotten accepted to a MD school I would have gone in a heartbeat like most of you would have.

Also, DO residencies are simply inferior, no two ways about it, to MD residencies. Most MD residencies are at academic medical centers, while even most of the top DO residencies are still at community hospitals. Hell, Botsford in Michigan - if you ask 10 normal people what they think about that hospital they will tell you it's bad.

Here's the truth: 99+% of us DO students are MD-rejects, or we simply didn't apply MD because we knew we would be rejected. There's nothing wrong with this, and the moment we start acknowledging this and proving to the public we're just as good physicians is the moment MD vs. DO debates will end.

hahahhaa are you for real? Your 99% theory goes at the window with my school alone. Most (70-80%) of people in my class couldnt be happier choosing DO and could care less if they went MD. We did an anonymous survey in class

Girl Please: Can you answer a question for me please? I have always wondered, what kinds of vegetables do trolls eat? I mean, are you a carrot kind of a troll? A broccoli kind of troll? I mean all that moisture under bridges must make for a great cute little garden

 

[Instatewaiter]

Give us the stats for Allopaths in the Osteopathic Match! That'll show you a disparity (tongue-in-cheek of course)

Using the same function that the NRMP used (eligible and participating students that matched/the total number that were eligible) you get:

0 MDs matched/0 were eligible

Anything divided by zero approaches infinity. So to answer your question, the match rate is infinity. haha

No, it's not.

Osteopathic Match rate - 89.2%
"Allopathic" Match rate - 94.4%

5% difference.

You're a resident AND you've posted in the thread that proves the match rates I've listed above. You should know better.

First, osteopathic residencies are almost universally inferior to ACGME (MD) programs. They tend to be smaller hospitals and community hospitals often in the middle of nowhere which means you get less volume and see fewer complex things. The complex things get sent to tertiary or quarternary care hospitals, which AOA hospitals are not.

Furthermore, most DOs know this and shoot for the ACGME programs (81% apply to ACGME programs). Look at the AOA match data, there are 2553 spots. There are 1300 fewer AOA residency slots than DO grads. Still, only 65% are filled. That speaks volumes about how DOs feel about their post-graduate training.

Even including the AOA match, there are 11% of DOs that still don't match?


Finally and most importantly, the original assertion was that when compared to MD students in the match: "No matter the cause, DO students are at a disadvantage in the match as compared to MD students."

This assumes we are talking about the NRMP match since that is where DOs would be compared to MDs. In that match (again which 81% of DOs apply) 71% match. Note that in the ACGME, some pre-match, don't get enough interviews so opt for only the DO match and some choose to go through the DO match. These applicants are not included in the 71% stat. If you change it to compare how many apply to ACGME vs how many match the match rate would be 49.7%.

It would be great to have the data to see what percentage of DOs who drop out of the NRMP match don't have a chance to match and self-select to the AOA match. We don't have that data to my knowledge.

So to summarize, when compared to their MD counterparts, in residencies for which 81% of DOs are shooting, 71% of those who choose to completely go through the NRMP match do successfully match. 94% of MD seniors match in the NRMP match. 49% of DOs who intially start out with the NRMP match do match Only 89% of DO students match.


Now given the above, tell me the playing field, for whatever reason, is level. When you get past your first year and actually go through the match, come back here and tell me if I was off base (hint: you won't).

 

[Kuba]

Using the same function that the NRMP used (eligible and participating students that matched/the total number that were eligible) you get:

0 MDs matched/0 were eligible

Anything divided by zero approaches infinity. So to answer your question, the match rate is infinity. haha




First, osteopathic residencies are almost universally inferior to ACGME (MD) programs. They tend to be smaller hospitals and community hospitals often in the middle of nowhere which means you get less volume and see fewer complex things. The complex things get sent to tertiary or quarternary care hospitals, which AOA hospitals are not.

Furthermore, most DOs know this and shoot for the ACGME programs (81% apply to ACGME programs). Look at the AOA match data, there are 2553 spots. There are 1300 fewer AOA residency slots than DO grads. Still, only 65% are filled. That speaks volumes about how DOs feel about their post-graduate training.

Even including the AOA match, there are 11% of DOs that still don't match?


Finally and most importantly, the original assertion was that when compared to MD students in the match: "No matter the cause, DO students are at a disadvantage in the match as compared to MD students."

This assumes we are talking about the NRMP match since that is where DOs would be compared to MDs. In that match (again which 81% of DOs apply) 71% match. Note that in the ACGME, some pre-match, don't get enough interviews so opt for only the DO match and some choose to go through the DO match. These applicants are not included in the 71% stat. If you change it to compare how many apply to ACGME vs how many match the match rate would be 49.7%.

It would be great to have the data to see what percentage of DOs who drop out of the NRMP match don't have a chance to match and self-select to the AOA match. We don't have that data to my knowledge.

So to summarize, when compared to their MD counterparts, in residencies for which 81% of DOs are shooting, 71% of those who choose to completely go through the NRMP match do successfully match. 94% of MD seniors match in the NRMP match. 49% of DOs who intially start out with the NRMP match do match Only 89% of DO students match.


Now given the above, tell me the playing field, for whatever reason, is level. When you get past your first year and actually go through the match, come back here and tell me if I was off base (hint: you won't).

You're off base.

 

[Girl Please]

hahahhaa are you for real? Your 99% theory goes at the window with my school alone. Most (70-80%) of people in my class couldnt be happier choosing DO and could care less if they went MD. We did an anonymous survey in class

Girl Please: Can you answer a question for me please? I have always wondered, what kinds of vegetables do trolls eat? I mean, are you a carrot kind of a troll? A broccoli kind of troll? I mean all that moisture under bridges must make for a great cute little garden

Exactly, because the kids in your class definitely wouldn't lie about wanting to be a DO to justify their inability to get into a MD program.

 

[DocEspana]

Stuff I about half agree with, but you gotta appreciate a man who uses statistics.

Derailing the topic: I hear you're at Bayview, how is it? Is it a respectable major center or a little subhospital of hopkins, akin to how columbia has a few tiny connecticut feeder hospitals (not mocking, seriously curious about it cause I like baltimore and am curious on some of the more famous hospitals taking DOs)

 

[Iswhatis]

I wouldn't mind having my residency there, but it sure isn't anything like the main campus.