If you are passing, why do you care what your classmates got?

[PoorMD]

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a lot of residencies won't take the guy who passed medical school by 1 point. But comparing yourself to the student who only missed one question on every test will not make you feel any better or work any harder-
Why do those same gunners always ask "What was the average??" loudly the day after the exam?? Who cares, your grade won't change. Maybe you beat the average, maybe you did not. Knowing the class average, and where you stand, will not inspire your best work.

i think the best motivation comes from within. Talking with yourself about how much you would like to learn for this block. Not feeling happy when others tell you they failed. ...

Im trying not to join endless rat race of comparisons, judgements, and constant feelings of superiority/inferiority depending on how you did on the last block.

 

[8744]

i think the best motivation comes from within. Talking with yourself about how much you would like to learn for this block. Not feeling happy when others tell you they failed. ...

Barf.

 

[deuist]

Why do those same gunners always ask "What was the average??" loudly the day after the exam?? Who cares, your grade won't change.

Grades can change based on the average. For our last exam, the average was 69 with a SD of 7. The exam was so poorly written that half of the students failed. That test was three weeks ago and the administration is still trying to figure out what to do.

 

[Pinner Doc]

Personally, I like to know the average bc I feel a little bit better knowing I'm a "somewhat stupid med student" rather than a "real bonehead med student." 😛

 

[Zoom-Zoom]

a lot of residencies won't take the guy who passed medical school by 1 point. But comparing yourself to the student who only missed one question on every test will not make you feel any better or work any harder-
Why do those same gunners always ask "What was the average??" loudly the day after the exam?? Who cares, your grade won't change. Maybe you beat the average, maybe you did not. Knowing the class average, and where you stand, will not inspire your best work.

i think the best motivation comes from within. Talking with yourself about how much you would like to learn for this block. Not feeling happy when others tell you they failed. ...

Im trying not to join endless rat race of comparisons, judgements, and constant feelings of superiority/inferiority depending on how you did on the last block.

What works for you doesn't necessarily work for everybody. Some people are motivated by competition. While this might drive others crazy, it works for them. Furthermore, since much of what decides how you will practice medicine is a competition, I don't think it is illogical or unfounded to ask what the average is.

 

[PoorMD]

What works for you doesn't necessarily work for everybody. Some people are motivated by competition. While this might drive others crazy, it works for them. Furthermore, since much of what decides how you will practice medicine is a competition, I don't think it is illogical or unfounded to ask what the average is.

I think it is mainly the "One-upper syndrome" of needing to be better than at least half of your classmates, whether in the classroom or in the gym or at the bar. Most medical students are like that, but there are competitive types everywhere. Personally I am driven by my own desire to succeed, not some urge to show up my classmates. I think it's a vicious cycle and if you stay in it, you will either a) come out on top, or b) give yourself a gastric ulcer. Likewise for the rest of your lives. Will you finally rest on your death bed and think "Thank God I was 2% better than those other idiot doctors. I can die a happy, confident, ridiculously successful and always better doctor"

Im sure thats a bit extreme. But some of the gunners in my class make me want to vomit. It's like they came here to spar with other med students, rather than to learn any true medicine.

 

[Rafa]

Im sure thats a bit extreme. But some of the gunners in my class make me want to vomit. It's like they came here to spar with other med students, rather than to learn any true medicine.

For some reason, this reminded me of gladiators. Haha... 🙂

 

[Law2Doc]

Im sure thats a bit extreme. But some of the gunners in my class make me want to vomit. It's like they came here to spar with other med students, rather than to learn any true medicine.

Just to put the shoe on the other foot -- why does it bother YOU so much that these folks feel the need to know a class average? Sure, it's silly for them to do other than keep their eyes on your own plate, and it probably doesn't get them anywhere, but I think you are kind of doing the same thing here -- worried about the gunners and what they are doing. 😀 You should worry about what you came to med school for, and make sure you accomplish it to your own satisfaction. Let the others choose to spar or not as they so desire. Not something to lose your lunch over.

 

[MEG@COOL]

a lot of residencies won't take the guy who passed medical school by 1 point. But comparing yourself to the student who only missed one question on every test will not make you feel any better or work any harder-
Why do those same gunners always ask "What was the average??" loudly the day after the exam?? Who cares, your grade won't change. Maybe you beat the average, maybe you did not. Knowing the class average, and where you stand, will not inspire your best work.

i think the best motivation comes from within. Talking with yourself about how much you would like to learn for this block. Not feeling happy when others tell you they failed. ...

Im trying not to join endless rat race of comparisons, judgements, and constant feelings of superiority/inferiority depending on how you did on the last block.

UNICORN POWER!!!!

 

[PoorMD]

👎

Just to put the shoe on the other foot -- why does it bother YOU so much that these folks feel the need to know a class average? Sure, it's silly for them to do other than keep their eyes on your own plate, and it probably doesn't get them anywhere, but I think you are kind of doing the same thing here -- worried about the gunners and what they are doing. 😀 You should worry about what you came to med school for, and make sure you accomplish it to your own satisfaction. Let the others choose to spar or not as they so desire. Not something to lose your lunch over.

and about your post,
Umm, isnt that what I just said? It makes me want to vomit because the competitive people are not good at heart, they are competitive jerks who always one-up people. I don't like people who try to one-up me, and so I don't do it to others.. Make sense to you? from the tone in your post, Im sure youve done your fair share of one-up'ing.. likewise, all your post has done is ask me why I care that they care?? Sounds like a vicious cycle to me. If you can help me get to the bottom of their reasoning, great. If not, continue to psychoanalyze and try to one-up. I simply asked why people care?

 

[marcus_aurelius]

Just to put the shoe on the other foot -- why does it bother YOU so much that these folks feel the need to know a class average? Sure, it's silly for them to do other than keep their eyes on your own plate, and it probably doesn't get them anywhere, but I think you are kind of doing the same thing here -- worried about the gunners and what they are doing. 😀 You should worry about what you came to med school for, and make sure you accomplish it to your own satisfaction. Let the others choose to spar or not as they so desire. Not something to lose your lunch over.

i get what he's saying though, i hate studying around the "gunners" who are giving out the evil eyes...anyone else ever feel like that. gotta get used to the competition.

 

[Ypo.]

a lot of residencies won't take the guy who passed medical school by 1 point. But comparing yourself to the student who only missed one question on every test will not make you feel any better or work any harder-
Why do those same gunners always ask "What was the average??" loudly the day after the exam?? Who cares, your grade won't change. Maybe you beat the average, maybe you did not. Knowing the class average, and where you stand, will not inspire your best work.

i think the best motivation comes from within. Talking with yourself about how much you would like to learn for this block. Not feeling happy when others tell you they failed. ...

Im trying not to join endless rat race of comparisons, judgements, and constant feelings of superiority/inferiority depending on how you did on the last block.

Yikes. I hope I'm not a gunner-because I want to know what the average is, too, after tests. There have been a couple of tests I failed, and I spent several days not knowing that the average grade was failing. It really comforted me when I found out. Its not that I'm happy knowing others did poorly-its that its reassuring simply because then I know it was more the fault of the way the test was written or the way the material was presented than my own inability to understand. Otherwise I would expect the average to be higher.

Also, I like to know that I'm doing slightly better than average so that I don't have to worry about sqeaking by. I'm not a gunner, and if I was I'd have to study an insane amount because I'm not super bright like some people. But I do really want to learn the material and not have to panic before exams (especially final exams). One of my goals is to not have to retake any classes, so one way to do that is to have a comfort margin. So, I do well when I can, and then when I get really busy or the material gets harder, I don't have to stress quite as much for the tests that occur during those times. Don't know if that makes sense to anyone, but I don't think it makes me a gunner.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

Personally, I like to know the average bc I feel a little bit better knowing I'm a "somewhat stupid med student" rather than a "real bonehead med student." 😛

👍 agreed! I think there's a lot to be learned knbowing the class average. Sometimes it's a matter of whether you're just not getting it or if the test was either poorly written or the course poorly taught.

 

[marcus_aurelius]

the term gunner pi**** me off. if someone studied a lot, i'd pat em on the back. most of us didnt get to med schl by being slackers. the more we know, better docs we become. i understand if someone is an a hole...call em an a-hole (usually the evil eye giver who asks everyone after the test what they got and uses the word "gunner' the most).....but "gunner"....what the hell is that....one nerd calling another nerdier nerd a gunner....

...what is this a popularity contest...at this point, everybody in med schl has gotta accept the fact that we all study a lot, we're all "nerds"....the term gunner seems so childish....grow up...not in middle schl anymore.

when people's lives are on the line...u better know u're shiznit

competition is always gonna be there for mo money and better lifestyle...some people gotta get over it...that's the real world.

 

[Law2Doc]

You seem to be totally missing the humor of your posts. Gunners care too much what other folks are doing. And yet you seem to care too much what gunners are doing (to the point that it apparently makes you ill).
Erego, perhaps you are of that same mindset.

Bottom line is that lots of folks don't care about class averages, or why others care about class averages. It doesn't cost us anything for them to know, so let them know.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

the term gunner pi**** me off. if someone studied a lot, i'd pat em on the back. most of us didnt get to med schl by being slackers. the more we know, better docs we become. i understand if someone is an a hole...call em an a-hole (usually the evil eye giver who asks everyone after the test what they got and uses the word "gunner' the most).....but "gunner"....what the hell is that....one nerd calling another nerdier nerd a gunner....

...what is this a popularity contest...at this point, everybody in med schl has gotta accept the fact that we all study a lot, we're all "nerds"....the term gunner seems so childish....grow up...not in middle schl anymore.

when people's lives are on the line...u better know u're shiznit

competition is always gonna be there for mo money and better lifestyle...some people gotta get over it...that's the real world.

 

[Nittany Lion]

What I don't understand, is my last exam had a very high class average (around a 90 when it usually ranges from high 70s or early to mid 80s) and people were actually *upset* about this. I'm thinking, "why are you upset that our class did well?" It was as if their higher grade didn't mean as much because everyone else got a high grade too. Do you guys ever experience this?

And, for the record, I really don't think the average was high because the test was necessarily too easy or anything, I think that everyone was just really nervous about this exam and we all worked harder than usual, and as a result, ended up earning a higher class average. Shouldn't this be good news?

 

[Psycho Doctor]

What I don't understand, is my last exam had a very high class average (around a 90 when it usually ranges from high 70s or early to mid 80s) and people were actually *upset* about this. I'm thinking, "why are you upset that our class did well?" It was as if their higher grade didn't mean as much because everyone else got a high grade too. Do you guys ever experience this?

And, for the record, I really don't think the average was high because the test was necessarily too easy or anything, I think that everyone was just really nervous about this exam and we all worked harder than usual, and as a result, ended up earning a higher class average. Shouldn't this be good news?

well it's true, your high grade does NOT mean so much if everyone else did well also. However we should all be happy when our classmates do well. 👍

 

[Sparky Man]

I'm not obsessed with how others do in my class, but I do find myself hoping to land somewhere in the middle most of the time. I wish I could pretend I was in a vacuum, but sometimes I think being around people who do well only makes me better. If left to my own motivations, I hate to admit that I might end up chillin' hard!!!

 

[raidermedic]

the term gunner pi**** me off. if someone studied a lot, i'd pat em on the back. most of us didnt get to med schl by being slackers. the more we know, better docs we become. i understand if someone is an a hole...call em an a-hole (usually the evil eye giver who asks everyone after the test what they got and uses the word "gunner' the most).....but "gunner"....what the hell is that....one nerd calling another nerdier nerd a gunner....

...what is this a popularity contest...at this point, everybody in med schl has gotta accept the fact that we all study a lot, we're all "nerds"....the term gunner seems so childish....grow up...not in middle schl anymore.

when people's lives are on the line...u better know u're shiznit

competition is always gonna be there for mo money and better lifestyle...some people gotta get over it...that's the real world.

👍 For real it's like people hope that if they call you "gunner" enough it will shame you into not studying anymore.

 

[Law2Doc]

👍 For real it's like people hope that if they call you "gunner" enough it will shame you into not studying anymore.

The actual definition of gunner is pejorative. It is NOT someone who studies hard and does well. It is someone who does this PLUS takes affirmative efforts to undermine others. I haven't actually witnessed this in med school, but have heard the tales. In law school, these were the types who rushed to the library and tore the pages out of key books so no one else could adequately do the assignments (without travelling to another school's library. this did periodically occur). So yes, if you are legitimately called a gunner, you should be ashamed. But it has nothing to do with studying.

 

[Rafa]

The actual definition of gunner is pejorative. It is NOT someone who studies hard and does well. It is someone who does this PLUS takes affirmative efforts to undermine others. I haven't actually witnessed this in med school, but have heard the tales. In law school, these were the types who rushed to the library and tore the pages out of key books so no one else could adequately do the assignments (without travelling to another school's library. this did periodically occur). So yes, if you are legitimately called a gunner, you should be ashamed. But it has nothing to do with studying.

👍

Being called a sniper is a token of admiration (or at least respect). Calling someone a gunner is as much a compliment as calling someone a brown-noser, or a back-stabber (or an anal-retentive pre/med).

 

[raidermedic]

The actual definition of gunner is pejorative. It is NOT someone who studies hard and does well. It is someone who does this PLUS takes affirmative efforts to undermine others. I haven't actually witnessed this in med school, but have heard the tales. In law school, these were the types who rushed to the library and tore the pages out of key books so no one else could adequately do the assignments (without travelling to another school's library. this did periodically occur). So yes, if you are legitimately called a gunner, you should be ashamed. But it has nothing to do with studying.

I don't think anyone in school ever legitamately calls someone a gunner (although there have been some shady instances where it may have been warrented). Usually when people use the term in school it is almost in jest ie if you are studying then you must have some other gunner like qualities.

 

[JohnnyOU]

Personally, I like to know the average bc I feel a little bit better knowing I'm a "somewhat stupid med student" rather than a "real bonehead med student." 😛

 

[marcus_aurelius]

The actual definition of gunner is pejorative. It is NOT someone who studies hard and does well. It is someone who does this PLUS takes affirmative efforts to undermine others. I haven't actually witnessed this in med school, but have heard the tales. In law school, these were the types who rushed to the library and tore the pages out of key books so no one else could adequately do the assignments (without travelling to another school's library. this did periodically occur). So yes, if you are legitimately called a gunner, you should be ashamed. But it has nothing to do with studying.

the nature of law and medicine are so different. someone who undermines others by ripping pages out should be expelled. why wouldnt you want your classmates to learn important info...if your Dad ended up in the e.r. or cardiac surgery tomorrow and that guy was the doc....i'd want him to know his sh**

i dont know how, but think med schl needs to be more selective in picking personalities suited for medicine. this is so tough to judge in an interview that can easily be prepped for. small class size and student comraderie would be ideal to producing top notch docs...maybe that's why mayo does so well.

 

[marcus_aurelius]

The actual definition of gunner is pejorative. It is NOT someone who studies hard and does well. It is someone who does this PLUS takes affirmative efforts to undermine others. I haven't actually witnessed this in med school, but have heard the tales. In law school, these were the types who rushed to the library and tore the pages out of key books so no one else could adequately do the assignments (without travelling to another school's library. this did periodically occur). So yes, if you are legitimately called a gunner, you should be ashamed. But it has nothing to do with studying.

the nature of law and medicine are so different. in med schl, if someone undermines others by ripping pages out ...they should be expelled. why wouldnt you want your classmates to learn important info...if your Dad ended up in the e.r. or cardiac surgery tomorrow and that guy was the doc....i'd want him to know his sh** sadly, i do know of the type who'd hide or hoard library books...think it ridiculous and pathetic that tomorrow that guy could be treating a fam member....same guy who would see a patient for 5 mins tops and walk out w/o answering any of their q's....perhaps if medicine were less lucrative, the standard of care might increase bc those looking at profits above anything else would be in business....in that scenario, might not attract the brightest minds, but sometimes i think patients need more of the compassionate minds than brightness.

i dont know how, but think med schl needs to be more selective in picking personalities suited for medicine. this is so tough to judge in an interview that can easily be prepped for. small class size and student comraderie would be ideal to producing top notch docs...maybe that's why mayo does so well.

 

[raidermedic]

why wouldnt you want your classmates to learn important info...if your Dad ended up in the e.r. or cardiac surgery tomorrow and that guy was the doc....i'd want him to know his sh** sadly,

Ironically it's those same people who wrote nice long personal statements about wanting to go into medicine to help people. Well I guess they weren't lying, they are just ensuring that only they are able to help and not their class mates. This is a case where calling someone a gunner is appropriate. Athough I probably would just call them an ass.

 

[Law2Doc]

the nature of law and medicine are so different. someone who undermines others by ripping pages out should be expelled. why wouldnt you want your classmates to learn important info...

I'm certainly not advocating gunnerism -- I am just pointing out the actual non-flattering definition of the term. Gunners exist in both professions. There are certainly plenty of tales in medicine, schools with bad reps for gunners, etc. These stories don't start without a reason. I gave the law example because it's one I saw first-hand in that form of professional school. But the concept translates.