If you could do it over would you

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A. Melanoleuca said:
I was pretty pissed to have to work through the entire Thanksgiving holiday. I do have a family, you know, but it was just a normal work week here. At least I didn't have call on Thanksgiving but I do have it today.
Sorry to hear that...it sucks that you have to work while knowing that your friends are relaxing during the holiday.

I'm in the same boat at the end of the year. I'm actually taking frozen section call on Christmas Eve and New Year's Eve. Oh yeah, and I don't have any vacations during the holiday either. People tell me that's not a bad thing since during the holiday season, the hospital isn't too too busy.

Yeah, I like having easy weeks but man, what kind of sick, twisted thinking is that? :laugh: IT'S THE FREAKIN' HOLIDAY! I WANNA RELAX, DRINK, EAT, AND BE MERRY TOO JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER NORMAL PERSON! :laugh:
 
PimplePopperMD said:
I'll give my two cents as well...

I'm a third year resident.

My life is really quite demanding. I work anywhere from 60 to 80 hours per week. I generally will have four 24-hour periods per month away from the hospital (oftentimes a weekend day, but sometimes a weekday). I generally have to say at the hospital late every fourth evening (and sometimes overnight). My wife is saddled with many of the household responsibilities, as I really just don't have time to pick up the cleaning, change the oil, do the laundry, cook, etc.

I come home from work quite tired, most days. I do my banking online so I can pay bills from the hospital during some downtime. My email goes unchecked for days. Calls don't get returned for days. I let my family/friends know that if they need to talk to me that day, they need to state this in their message. I am less involved, even over the phone, with my brothers, my sister and her children, and my parents, than I ever have been.

Holidays and birthdays aren't always celebrated on the correct day. Christmas last year was celebrated the 24th. My birthday was celebrated three days later. I spent Valentine's day and night at the hospital. I spent Christmas day and evening and the 26th morning at the hospital.

Training is very difficult. The stakes are higher than they ever have been in one's work life, almost regardless of prior work experience. What other job demands you to save a life of a patient on the other side of the hospital, whose name you don't even know, at 3am? The training for medicine is all encompassing for a reason; the stakes are high.

There are incredible highs and lows. There was a code that I ran (note that generally as senior residents, we are the highest-levels on the floor of the hospital, without physicians who have completed their training) that lasted a LONG time (almost 20 minutes), I was just about to pronounce the patient dead, and the patient regained a pulse. Although I thought we had done a disservice to the patient initially, four days later I visited the patient and she was talking, and coherent (no anoxic brain injury). Perhaps if I weren't there, the patient wouldn't have been intubated (nobody else there was able to), and perhaps the outcome would have been different.

When there is a bad outcome, you take this home as well. We surround ourselves with illness, death, and this can really wreak havoc with one's psyche.

I write all this to encourage those of you who are pre-med. I absolutely would do this again, because in general I really love my job. I cannot imagine another job which would allow me to use my head, to use my hands (to do various procedures), and to use my demeanor (I absolutely believe that a good physician needs to be able to interact with patients in a very unique, open manner; with humor, with warmth, with respect). When the day isn't going so well, I can switch gears; I can focus my energies on teaching the medical students various physical exam skills, I can teach the interns about a disease a patient on service has, or I can take a LONG lunch.

Many people go into the field for the wrong reasons, and those people know who they are when they are interns (because they dread waking up in the morning!) That is why I would never blankly encourage someone to do this; it is SO all-encompassing. You lose friends, hobbies, etc... and even though I felt I was relatively informed when I was a premed in knowing what choice I was making, I don't think it's possible to fully appreciate the level of sacrifice until you're actually making it.

But if you have the interest, the dedication, and most of all the humanity, then this could be a great ride. Patients let you into their most private, darkest hour, and have faith that you can help. And even when your medicine fails, your humanity shouldn't.

Good luck to all of you!

Sorry, I'm a little late and just bringing myself up to speed on this thread - but I just had say that this is probably the most sincere and heart-felt post I've read on SDN in quite a while. 👍
 
I wanted to bump this thread, because it's too good to let it get lost on page four. I am a non-trad who will begin medical school in the fall. After reading this thread, I asked my dad, who is a DO in FP/geriatrics and nearing age 70, whether he would do it all again. We got into a long discussion about how medicine has changed since he first started practicing in the 1960s. He used to deliver babies, make house calls, perform surgery, and have patients pay him with vegetables and eggs. Now of course he no longer does any of those things. Basically he told me that he would still do it all over, but he would have gone into ENT. (He was offered an ENT residency position at U Mich and he turned it down!!! Doh!!! 😱 ) He also told me that he had always hoped that I would choose to go into medicine. I can't totally explain why, but somehow it reassured me to know that he felt that way. I'm looking forward to starting down this pathway, and I'm also scared out of my mind.
 
Bump.

I know this thread is still on the first page of the forum, but any new perspectives or additions?
 
For those choosing medicine as a second career, like myself at 33 yrs of age, it may not matter as much. By the time I'm done school and residency, I'll be a little over 40. I figure by the time I begin working and actually realize that I don't like it after all - I'll be looking at retirement anyway 😱 . (Isn't that a scary thought). Please forgive me, I'm in bit of a jovial mood this morning with another semester down (doing post-bac work).

But seriously, from what I've seen and heard, being a physican seems like one of those things that you really can't understand until you've done it, and at that point it is too late. But as a second career person, I can also tell you that many, many, many people dislike what they're doing. Any job unfortunately becomes mundane after you've done it along enough. While being a physician is probably the closest thing to having a job that "is your life", I'd advise people against trying to make their job solely define who they are. If you find you don't like it, you will be very disheartened. (If you can convince yourself to actually look at it more as a job you'll probably be able to tolerate it's shortcomings a little more). However, even for myself that is going to be easier said than done - I seriously feel as if medicine is my calling somehow (can't really explain it) and I am going for it one way or the other...good or bad....If I don't, I'll always regret it - and so will everyone else on these forums if they don't. Nothing ventured nothing gained, I guess. Good luck to everyone, and may you all find happiness at the end of this difficult road.
 
Hi all!
Since this thread is back I can't help but ask some of my fellow allied health professionals for their prospectives. If you were an RN,NP,PA,PT,OT,SLP, before med school, had quite comfortable life style, in demand, making a nice 6 figure income, working with the patients, or in health care in general...would you put yourselves, and your families through this again? I know it was a long sentence 😱 .I saw many posts on this thread from folks in hi-teck field, bisiness world, engineers etc. How about those who have been in the health field for the past 10-15 yrs or even longer?
TIA for your responces 🙂
 
I spose as a nontrad i have a bit different view of some of the sacrifices. I've been a paramedic for 15 years. My husband is a cop. We RARELY celebrate any holiday or celebration (birthdays, anniversaries, etc.) on the day it is normally celebrated. Five years in a row he was out of town for our anniversary. One year he was gone for 4 months in training (don't ask) through the entire holiday season, leaving me home alone with two small children under the age of 4. We are totally accustomed to working the holiday day itself, weird hours, long hours. Our children are also used to it now that they're older. We've seen some really bad stuff, much of it we just don't talk about. Our families don't understand the side of life we see on a daily basis. My husband being a cop, I lie to people and tell the he's a trash collector when they ask me what he does for a living. And when we do get a day together, invariably one of us gets called into work for something or other.

So are we ready for med school? We know it'll be hard. We know it'll take inordinate amounts of time. We know the hours at times will be horribly unpredictable, and that the actual day of the holidays will mean little (just like now) and will need to be rescheduled. That's ok with us. We have learned to find satisfaction within ourselves and not from others. We have learned to be forgiving, accomodating, and have tried to teach our children what is really important in life - and it's not celebrating Christmas on Christmas Day. It's having a family to celebrate Christmas with at all and being grateful for what you have in life.

Idealistic? Perhaps. Perhaps I'll change my mind after a few years of med school. But damn, I'm looking forward to the road ahead, with all the bumps, detours, and potholes along the way. And I'm grateful to have a family to go on the road with me. (BTW, they are absolutely THRILLED about the journey ahead - my son even asked for a skeleton for Christmas.)

I'm not sure we'd know what to do with a "normal" lifestyle. We've never had one.
 
I don't belong in this thread, I'm veeeeeeery far from where you all are but I've been reading for a while and had sort of an epiphany.

Appreciation plays a large part of how we perceive ourselves and what we do. Maybe a large portion of disappointment with the profession comes from the lack of appreciation for the amount of work, complexity, and sheer devotion it takes to be in it day in day out.

I will refer to a small, possibly extremely naive and microcosmic analogy. I hated washing dishes/doing chores when I was younger, as much of us did I'm sure. However whenever I completed the chores my mother would give me a hug, encouraging word, or some sort of acknowledgement and that made me feel good about the work I had done despite what actual benefits I had received from the task.

Same goes for all those years of schooling, from grade school into med school. I assume an "A" feels alot better when a professor acknowledges the work/studying you put into a paper or test, than just a "you got an A, go study more."

I think the process of getting into medicine itself has somehow placed physicans itself on a pedestal where the average joe believes his doctor is some sort of being beyond lowly human needs, including acknowledgement of effort. Thats probably delving into a whole different flavor of kool-aid.

Either way, my main point is the lack of appreciation for what you all, physicians, have gone through and go through daily to serve people's healthcare needs.

Once again I know this might be very naive because I am nowhere near the lifestyles you are experiencing, but it is just a thought, perhaps one that someone else may better expound upon.

Much Love
Rock On :horns:
Med-tallica
 
Dear ShyRem,

you really need to get a life and spend more time with your family. That should be your priority. Trust me medschool is no fun. I am sure you can weather the storm, but as far as your children i cannot say the same for them. Life is too short. Spending another 7-10 yrs in indentured servitude, away from your family, is not anyone's idea of having a life. And residency is worse than medschool as far as responsibility and hours. Look, it may look glamorous to you now, but it will not be anything remotely similar few years down the road. To make things worse, medicine is full of horrible personalities. Think hard before you enter. Damn, i wish someone had told me this back when i was in early stages of my training.

BTW, i am a second year anesthesia resident. Worked very hard in college to get into med school. Worked hard in med school to get into a competitive residency. Looks like i am working hard to get board certified and getting good recommendation letters. Life is a little better now ( working 60-65 hrs/wk with lot more responsibility). Still doesn't make up for all the BS i went through. Yes, i still read a lot after i come home exhausted from work. I do look at my work as a job, because i don't let it consume me. Trust me, it gets old real fast when you are on call on weekends and/or holidays. Any sane doctor will tell you, its not worth it. Heed my warning.
 
I've said it before and I'll say it again: I'm baffled why a thread directed at folks that have actually finished/almost finished/are in medical school attracts pre-meds that add in their .02 about "why this road is TOTALLY worth it!". It would be like commenting on being in battle in Iraq from your living room. The journey on the road to being a doc is never as "worth it" as the 6 months before you've actually stepped foot in the classroom.

Trust me. I've been there - but know nothing about anything else (clinicals) so I won't comment on that.
 
Yeah, from a MS4 perspective, I'd do it all over again. Though, the thought of quitting has crossed my mind a dozen times the first 2 years. I loved 3rd year, and 4th year is even better. The only thing that kept me going the first 2 years were my friends and the idea that they were the last years of classroom learning. 3rd year is different, although you don't contribute much, get abused and scutted a little, it gives you a glimpse of what its like to help people and make a difference in someone's life. Hopefully, you went into medicine for the right reasons (mine were, 1. helping people, 2. money, 3. respect), and will appreciate what I'm saying. If you're only in it for money and ego gratification, you may be miserable all 4 years, there are easier ways to earn a buck than med school. If you like working with people, like using your brain and hands to fix problems and help people, and don't mind spending 50-60 hours in a hospital, the first 2 years still suck, but the whole experience is worth it. I'd do it again in a heartbeat. Most importantly...choose your specialty wisely.
 
Elysium said:
I've said it before and I'll say it again: I'm baffled why a thread directed at folks that have actually finished/almost finished/are in medical school attracts pre-meds that add in their .02 about "why this road is TOTALLY worth it!". It would be like commenting on being in battle in Iraq from your living room. The journey on the road to being a doc is never as "worth it" as the 6 months before you've actually stepped foot in the classroom.

Trust me. I've been there - but know nothing about anything else (clinicals) so I won't comment on that.
I don't know where you're at in medical school. (You're presumably a first or second year, if you haven't hit clinicals yet, I guess.) But maybe you've been away from the application process long enough now that you've forgotten how painful it is and how much sacrifice it requires from kids who are not even old enough to drink yet. Right now there are literally thousands of college kids (and some older folks too) who have gone through 2+ years of science classes, the MCAT (maybe multiple times), and who are now in the thick of the application process. Many of them aren't even going to have an opportunity to moan and complain about how not worth it medical school was like you have, because unlike you, they didn't get accepted after years of work.

It's hardly surprising that pre-meds who are at the cusp of starting their medical training want reassurance that all of their sacrifices, past and future, are going to be "worth it." Why denigrate their (maybe my?) perspectives just because they're coming from an earlier point on the path than yours are? Would you really prefer that people already feel jaded and cynical before they even take their first medical school class? And maybe, just maybe, if you're willing to hear one out, you might even be able to find something of value in what a mere college student has to say.
 
QofQuimica said:
It's hardly surprising that pre-meds who are at the cusp of starting their medical training want reassurance that all of their sacrifices, past and future, are going to be "worth it." Why denigrate their (maybe my?) perspectives just because they're coming from an earlier point on the path than yours are? Would you really prefer that people already feel jaded and cynical before they even take their first medical school class? And maybe, just maybe, if you're willing to hear one out, you might even be able to find something of value in what a mere college student has to say.

It's not that we expect pre-med's to be jaded or cynical. It's that you really have no basis to comment on whether this is all worth it or not, because you haven't actually experienced any of it. And without that experience it's impossible to know.

I'm a surgical intern. I loved med school, never thought of quitting, rah rah rah. This has been the hardest, loneliest, most stressful year of my life so far and I'm happier than I anticipated I'd be. A year ago, I had no way to know what this would feel like, except in small glimpses. Until you've been down the road, you can't understand it. That's why we're dismissing pre-med perspectives. Because they don't have first hand experience on what it means to train, only abstract ideals, which you absolutely should have as a pre-med.
 
blue2000 said:
I'm a surgical intern. I loved med school, never thought of quitting, rah rah rah. This has been the hardest, loneliest, most stressful year of my life so far and I'm happier than I anticipated I'd be.

Someone's been hanging out with the anesthesiologists a little too much... 😉
 
QofQuimica said:
I don't know where you're at in medical school. (You're presumably a first or second year, if you haven't hit clinicals yet, I guess.) But maybe you've been away from the application process long enough now that you've forgotten how painful it is and how much sacrifice it requires from kids who are not even old enough to drink yet.

OH the pain! OH the sacrifice! OH... whatever. Gimme a break. Taking college chemisty is not pain and sacrifice, taking the MCAT, which any USMLE step puts to total shame, is not pain and sacrifice... Getting rejected is painful, I suppose, but no more so than the pain of anybody else who didn't achieve a goal they had. Pre-meds don't have a monopoly on--or typically even a particularly good grasp of--pain and sacrifice. Getting into medical school means not being a total douchebag like 90% of all college kids are (and not being picky about where you go). If studying, skipping a few parties on the weekends, taking some basic science classes and volunteering at the hospital once a week is pain and sacrifice, then I guess medical school is nothing short of a Soviet-era gulag.

It's hardly surprising that pre-meds who are at the cusp of starting their medical training want reassurance that all of their sacrifices, past and future, are going to be "worth it."

Of course they do! So I guess anybody who doesn't love medicine should either A) lie to pre-meds, or B) just not speak to them. I mostly pursue option B, unless I feel like making fun of somebody.
 
That's pretty harsh man...sounds like someone has buyers remorse. Don't get me wrong, I hated parts of medical school as much as the next person. But overall, it was a way to get from point A to point B, and there were moments when I loved it. When I talk to pre-meds, I make sure that they know they're getting themselves into a certain "lifestyle" not just a job. If you want a job, go be an accountant, engineer, architect, etc...don't be a doctor. If you're already in med school and having regrets, don't worry, you can always go into pathology, radiology, gas...maybe even work for some kind of pharm. company, or work for the lawyers. Know what you're getting yourself into, and you'll be satisfied. I mean, who am I to tell pre-meds that they shouldn't pursue their dream. 4-5 years ago, I was a naive, optimistic, bright-eyed kid taking the MCATs...and now, I'm still glad I did it. Pre-meds, trust me, for every Sacrament, there's someone like me who's still not jaded and loves the idea of medicine. Unfortunately, there's no way to tell how you'll feel until you're wrist deep in cadaver...Good luck all.
 
Buck Strong said:
there were moments when I loved it

The first two years of med school were maybe the best two years of my life, and I'm being absolutely serious. And no, the clinical years haven't been the worst years of my life. In general I'm pretty content with life, though I wish I'd made different career decisions. I don't hate medicine, I'm just very disappointed with it.

Buck Strong said:
I mean, who am I to tell pre-meds that they shouldn't pursue their dream.

Hey, I never tell pre-meds they shouldn't go to medical school. Clearly there are a large number of people who enjoy the profession, and it's a very good fit for some people. What I try to do (when I bother to try to do anything, which is rarely) is counter the completely unrealistic expectations that most of them have. A lot of pre-meds need to give far more careful and considerate thought to this career decision, which is in some ways, as you said, way more than a job.

Pre-meds, trust me, for every Sacrament, there's someone like me who's still not jaded and loves the idea of medicine.

The only thing I'll argue with you about in your post is this ratio. In my experience it's more like for every Buck Strong there are 1.5 to 2 sacraments. And all of the sacraments thought (or knew!) they were going to be Buck Strongs.
 
QofQuimica said:
I don't know where you're at in medical school. (You're presumably a first or second year, if you haven't hit clinicals yet, I guess.) But maybe you've been away from the application process long enough now that you've forgotten how painful it is and how much sacrifice it requires from kids who are not even old enough to drink yet. Right now there are literally thousands of college kids (and some older folks too) who have gone through 2+ years of science classes, the MCAT (maybe multiple times), and who are now in the thick of the application process. Many of them aren't even going to have an opportunity to moan and complain about how not worth it medical school was like you have, because unlike you, they didn't get accepted after years of work.

It's hardly surprising that pre-meds who are at the cusp of starting their medical training want reassurance that all of their sacrifices, past and future, are going to be "worth it." Why denigrate their (maybe my?) perspectives just because they're coming from an earlier point on the path than yours are? Would you really prefer that people already feel jaded and cynical before they even take their first medical school class? And maybe, just maybe, if you're willing to hear one out, you might even be able to find something of value in what a mere college student has to say.

I would rather hear the truth and how people really feal. I think most other people would also. We can make our own decisions based on the truth. 👍
 
Honestly, I think that the Sac to Buck ratio is more like 3:1, maybe 4:1. It is also very very specialty dependent. If you want a guaranteed shot at living the dream, get a 38 on the mcats, go to Harvard Med, work your ass off, and assure yourself a good shot at Derm. I don't know any unhappy derm residents or attendings...but easier said than done
 
Buck Strong said:
Honestly, I think that the Sac to Buck ratio is more like 3:1, maybe 4:1. It is also very very specialty dependent. If you want a guaranteed shot at living the dream, get a 38 on the mcats, go to Harvard Med, work your ass off, and assure yourself a good shot at Derm. I don't know any unhappy derm residents or attendings...but easier said than done

Not to hijack the thread, but I just don't get it. Can skin lesions really be that interesting? Or is the lifestyle so good that it doesn't matter how boring it is? Would you reject the notion that you should pick a specialty primarily because you find it interesting?

Also, as I'm sure you know, you don't need to go to a top tier school to get into derm. I've seen a lot of match lists....
 
humuhumu said:
Not to hijack the thread, but I just don't get it. Can skin lesions really be that interesting? Or is the lifestyle so good that it doesn't matter how boring it is? Would you reject the notion that you should pick a specialty primarily because you find it interesting?

Also, as I'm sure you know, you don't need to go to a top tier school to get into derm. I've seen a lot of match lists....


I'm just taking a guess, but I suppose good hours and good pay have something to do with it.
 
That's pretty much the long and short of it.

It's a low stress job with excellent pay and excellent hours. It's not for everyone though... 😴 😴 😴
 
Elysium said:
I've said it before and I'll say it again: I'm baffled why a thread directed at folks that have actually finished/almost finished/are in medical school attracts pre-meds that add in their .02 about "why this road is TOTALLY worth it!". It would be like commenting on being in battle in Iraq from your living room. The journey on the road to being a doc is never as "worth it" as the 6 months before you've actually stepped foot in the classroom.

Trust me. I've been there - but know nothing about anything else (clinicals) so I won't comment on that.


My apologies if I have offended anyone by giving my "pre-med .02" earlier. I made the hasty assumption that after more than 400 posts - that possibly the scope of this thread had expanded beyond the original question asked which was indeed directed at those who have already finished their medical education. And also excuse me for being optimistic and excited about the possibility of becoming a physician. Am I 100% certain that I am going to be completely satisfied and have no regrets whatsoever? No. Do I really think that someone is going to roll out the red carpet for me and bow to my awe inspiring presence? No. However, do I really feel deep down inside that this is something I could see myself doing for the rest of my life? Yes. Am I going have eternal regret if I do not at least try to follow my abitions? Yes. Is it going to hurt to try? No (other than the pain and suffering of the whole process).

It is indeed unfortunate that not everyone is happy with their choices. Life is certainly not always fair. But for every unhappy person, you can find another that is satisfied with thier decision. I supose it's a bit like marriage, divorce, death - you can't really imagine what it is going to be like until you have gone through it, but at that point it is too late to turn back. Physicians are an essential need for society. I'm glad that there are still people out there willing to try even though it may end in discontent for an unfortunate few of them.
 
Pharos said:
I'm glad that there are still people out there willing to try even though it may end in discontent for an unfortunate few of them.

"Unfortunate few" is the primary misconception that needs to be addressed among pre-meds. Many people enjoy medicine very much, sure... but for any individual one of you, no matter how cheery your outlook, the odds are that you will be disappointed. Pharos, it is more likely than not you will be discontent. Everybody hears the statistics ("X out of Y doctors would not do it again... X out of Y doctors would not recommend the profession to their children... X out of Y doctors are dissatisfied with their careers... etc.") but nobody thinks it applies to them. "Oh, those doctors weren't serious about it! Those doctors weren't ready to make the sacrifices! Those doctors didn't dream their entire lives about being doctors!" Yes they did. The numbers apply to you. It's not what you think it is. You might still like, you might still love it, but it isn't what you think it is.
 
i'd never choose willingly to re-do something that involved so much sacrifice and time. that is, i don't spend much time looking backwards, esp about things that were relatively lengthy, expensive, and all-consuming. i look forward to the future and i think about the moments in which i live. for example, if i could do it over, i'd have a whole bunch of new-found, wonder-twin style power that i don't currently have. and so, if i could do it over, i'd back way up and be born independently wealthy. why stop at five years ago as long as we're talking about re-writing my life? that's how useful i think that question is to me. and whether i would re-do something has little bearing (as least in my mind) on whether you, or she, or he should do, or re-do, it. i choose not to ponder questions like that so much because that's so far from the realm of possibility, that's it's much more useful to daydream that i live on a tropical island (as long as i'm thinking about non-realities).

would i recommend medicine to someone else as a career-choice? absolutely. you don't need to put my face on a poster, though. i prefer to recommend it and provide my reasons why i like it. you then can decide if any of that might apply to you and carry on gathering more information. i'm not passing out samples of gum--i'm talking about a major life decision that requires a number of steps spanning several years. it's not simplistic and it's not the same for everyone. people needs to do their own research, make their own choices, and seek their own inner peace.

i look forward to a career where i will have enormous flexibility in terms of where i can work and what i can do. i will be financially independent and secure, something that appeals to me coming from a single-parent household where we never were. i will work directly with people on issues of importance not just to them, but to me and to all of us. i will be challenged intellectually much of the time. i will work in a field that is ever-evolving (medicine in general and anesthesia specifically), so it is unlikely i will be bored. if i do feel bored, there will be avenues to pursue to quench my thirsts.

this is most of what i look for in a job. no more, no less. does it take a lot to get there in medicine? yes, it does. to some, it really really takes a lot. to others, it takes a lot but not an overwhelming amount (i'm of this group). to a few others, who cares? after all, it's a job. if you're lucky in this world, you 1)will have a job that fulfills your needs for having one, and 2)you get to choose what that job will be. i never lose sight of how life could be compared to how it is for the majority of people in this world. i happen to think working as a doctor is pretty cool. and i am highly appreciative of the road i am on toward that end.

yes, i would do it over again. that doesn't mean every minute has been good. nor does it mean that i feel optimistic and full of hope all of the time. all it's saying is that i believe in this path for me. it's a job, it's not my life. i am more than the sum of my parts.
 
sacrament said:
"Unfortunate few" is the primary misconception that needs to be addressed among pre-meds. Many people enjoy medicine very much, sure... but for any individual one of you, no matter how cheery your outlook, the odds are that you will be disappointed. Pharos, it is more likely than not you will be discontent. Everybody hears the statistics ("X out of Y doctors would not do it again... X out of Y doctors would not recommend the profession to their children... X out of Y doctors are dissatisfied with their careers... etc.") but nobody thinks it applies to them. "Oh, those doctors weren't serious about it! Those doctors weren't ready to make the sacrifices! Those doctors didn't dream their entire lives about being doctors!" Yes they did. The numbers apply to you. It's not what you think it is. You might still like, you might still love it, but it isn't what you think it is.

I hesitated when I typed "few" and suspected that someone would respond to it. (Glad you were paying attention). You are probably correct - I won't argue statistics. You are also probably correct that there is no true rhyme or reason why one person likes it and another doesn't. Although, I must say that I also suspect that you heard similar "threats" to stay away from medicine when you were a pre-med, but you didn't did you? It's kinda hard to talk somebody out of something they have their heart set on. I guess I'll have to cross my fingers and hope to hell that I one of the lucky ones. If not, life goes on I suppose. Still good discussion though - it's nice to see that people can be honest about how they really feel. Just curious though, yourself specifically - is it more the time in life that you have "lost", the stress of the whole process, less respect than you hoped, too much pain and suffering, etc that has soured you? (This isn't a sarcastic comment, by the way, I am truly curious).
 
sacrament said:
OH the pain! OH the sacrifice! OH... whatever. Gimme a break. Taking college chemisty is not pain and sacrifice, taking the MCAT, which any USMLE step puts to total shame, is not pain and sacrifice... Getting rejected is painful, I suppose, but no more so than the pain of anybody else who didn't achieve a goal they had. Pre-meds don't have a monopoly on--or typically even a particularly good grasp of--pain and sacrifice. Getting into medical school means not being a total douchebag like 90% of all college kids are (and not being picky about where you go). If studying, skipping a few parties on the weekends, taking some basic science classes and volunteering at the hospital once a week is pain and sacrifice, then I guess medical school is nothing short of a Soviet-era gulag.

Of course they do! So I guess anybody who doesn't love medicine should either A) lie to pre-meds, or B) just not speak to them. I mostly pursue option B, unless I feel like making fun of somebody.
Well, I suppose I should be honored that you have deigned to speak to me, unless you are in fact pursuing option B and making fun of me. 🙄 But I did want to respond to your first paragraph. I certainly never said anything to suggest that pre-meds "have a monopoly on pain and sacrifice." But that could be said of anyone, including medical students. What, so you have to take some tests and spend a few sleepless nights studying and playing doctor in the hospital? Boo hoo to you. Other people are starving to death, or being raped at knifepoint or beaten by their spouses or getting "ethnically cleansed." One thing about life on this earth is that there is more than enough hurt to go 'round. That's just as true for pre-meds as it is for anyone else.

It is no doubt true that people must go through medical school themselves in order to truly understand every nuance of what the experience is like. But that doesn't mean that people on the outside must have NO concept whatsoever of what it is like. A person similarly does not need to have been starving, raped, beaten, or murdered in order to have some idea of what it must be like to be in such a scenario, nor to have some thoughts on the subject.
 
Can skin lesions really be that interesting? Or is the lifestyle so good that it doesn't matter how boring it is? Would you reject the notion that you should pick a specialty primarily because you find it interesting?

gujuDoc said:
I'm just taking a guess, but I suppose good hours and good pay have something to do with it.



Be a dentist or orthodontist...though its not for everyone, especially those who have no interest in specializing in the oral cavity.
 
Pharos said:
IJust curious though, yourself specifically - is it more the time in life that you have "lost", the stress of the whole process, less respect than you hoped, too much pain and suffering, etc that has soured you? (This isn't a sarcastic comment, by the way, I am truly curious).

None of the above... I actually didn't find med school to be particularly stressful or painful. It wasn't nearly as difficult or stressful as graduate school or, for that matter, the engineering job I had before I changed fields. In that sense it's been sort of a nice change of pace from my former life. What "soured" me is how completely unintellectual I find the entire pursuit. Most days are pretty damn boring. I think most people of average intelligence could do this job quite well... which isn't really a slam on it, it's just not what I wanted in a career. Depending on the field, your days are a mixture of social work, paperwork, relatively mindless and tedious manual procedures, and note writing.
 
Sebastian. said:
And the worst part is that I had to spend so much time around spoiled whiny drones like sacrament.

Whiny, arguably (although I've never once complained about a single thing when I'm in the hospital or clinic, and if anything my classmates would likely describe me as "stoic"). Spoiled? I've worked virtually non-stop since I was 14 years old. I've had jobs that make med school look like a vacation in Cabo. Nobody ever paid for my school, my rent, my anything, I've worked my ass off for every single thing I've ever had, so take your self-righteous BS and F-off.
 
QofQuimica said:
But that could be said of anyone, including medical students. What, so you have to take some tests and spend a few sleepless nights studying and playing doctor in the hospital? Boo hoo to you.

Med school is painful only in the same pansy-ass context that being a pre-med is. My point isn't that med school is orders of magnitude more painful than being a pre-med is. Most pre-meds have a decent grasp of how rigorous med school is, what a lot of them don't seem to have a good grasp on is what the experience of being a physician is actually going to be like.
 
sacrament said:
Med school is painful only in the same pansy-ass context that being a pre-med is. My point isn't that med school is orders of magnitude more painful than being a pre-med is. Most pre-meds have a decent grasp of how rigorous med school is, what a lot of them don't seem to have a good grasp on is what the experience of being a physician is actually going to be like.

Thats true, I am not a doc but a lot of my family members (including mom and dad) are. Being a physician is very tedious and boring. You arent respected as much by the general public as you are by premeds. Everyone is demanding or wanting something from you. Whether its refills on drugs, pain meds, to sue you, to put you out of business, to sell you something.....etc Every single physician i have talked (with the acception of 3 ER docs) have told me to not do medicine and do business. But i m still going for it, if at the end of med school i just completely hate medicine I ll do business.
 
Sebastian. said:
Nothing there to debate. You whine for olympic gold.

You base this on a couple of internet posts that you've read? Anybody who isn't a medicine junkie like you is a "whiner?"

In any case, I believe what you say about how unhappy you are. Very sad. I guess it just sucks to be you. :meanie:

Since you've created an entire false caricature of me out of a few internet posts you've read, funny you've managed to ignore the fact that here and elsewhere I often add a disclaimer that while I'm not a huge fan of medicine, regardless I'm not particularly unhappy. I'm historically made a point of doing this because I don't want people to get the wrong idea (that, while I think people are misguided about what medicine is, I'm not a lunatic who claims it'll completely ruin your life). As recently as about one page back in this thread:

sacrament said:
In general I'm pretty content with life, though I wish I'd made different career decisions. I don't hate medicine, I'm just very disappointed with it.

And yet I still get some anonymous internet bitch with faux-sympathy for how depressed I must be. I don't know hardly anybody who loves their job... I'd wager the majority of people are pretty irritated with their jobs. And yet most people are relatively content with their lives. Funny that.
 
This is a great example of that bizarre medical personality, the Medicine Nazi. No other field has a version of this. Nobody who works in insurance is so bonkers about insurance that if a fellow insurance adjuster says that they wish they had a different job, the Insurance Nazi leaps down their job and calls them a lazy whining baby. Nobody in engineering is so passionately dedicated to engineering that they verbally rape any other engineer who says that, in retrospect, they wish they'd been an artist. But in medicine, you're either GUNG-HO or you're lazy. I go to work every day, I do what I need to do (and then some), I never complain, and I'm good. But all it takes is the admission that I'd probably be happier doing something else, and BOOYAH, game on. Not even that I hate what I'm doing, not that I'm miserable with what I'm doing, but that it's not what I thought it would be, that it isn't what most people think it is, and that I wish I'd done something different. Enter the Medicine Nazi. Every class has a few of these folks, who believe that a doctor with regrets is a douchebag. Luckily the majority of people are more reasonable (probably because the majority of people feel the same way).
 
Unemployed said:
Be a dentist or orthodontist...though its not for everyone, especially those who have no interest in specializing in the oral cavity.


Hahahaha.........sooooooo true on both accounts!!!!!!!!!

I, for one, have no interest in the oral cavity.
 
NRAI2001 said:
Thats true, I am not a doc but a lot of my family members (including mom and dad) are. Being a physician is very tedious and boring. You arent respected as much by the general public as you are by premeds. Everyone is demanding or wanting something from you. Whether its refills on drugs, pain meds, to sue you, to put you out of business, to sell you something.....etc Every single physician i have talked (with the acception of 3 ER docs) have told me to not do medicine and do business. But i m still going for it, if at the end of med school i just completely hate medicine I ll do business.

but isn't that true with most jobs. i could say almost all the above for my current job aside from people trying to get pain meds from me. people want me to give them money. people hassle me all the time to get it. people threaten to get a lawyer and sue my company if i don't release their check asap. i'm not acting like i know all about being a doctor, but i you're in for a rude awakening if you think medicine is the only pain in the a$$ job full of whiny ungrateful people. and if it's not the general public hasseling you, you've got a stupid boss or have to deal with stupid corporate bureaocratic (why can't i spell that word today?) processes and hr bullsh%t.

so, i guess the end result of this thread is that medicine sucks horribly for some people and is worth it for other people. not so educational for us premed types. hopefully we're hip to that already.
 
Sebastian. said:
I'm a little curious though. How is it that with both parents as physicians you've had to work in sweatshops since you were eight years old or whatever?

Both parents physicians, wtf are you talking about? My dad was an engineer (at a struggling paper mill in an economically depressed rural town, so he wasn't exactly making what you'd consider an "engineer's salary") and on my mom's side of the family, nobody graduated from high school. She couldn't get a job for many years in that one-horse town, though by the time I was in high school she did find an office job. We were dirt poor when I was growing up. We lived in a tiny studio apartment until I was in high school, when we got a small house. My parents didn't have a dime for me to go to college. I had to work in high school to pay for college, and I had to work in college to pay for rent. Not that any of this is any of your business (and not that it would particularly matter if they were physicians). I don't know where you came up with this bullsh1t, but I think you've got me confused with somebody else. Next time get your facts straight before you decide to make a personal attack, douche-nozzle.
 
no, i don't think i would
i may still quit since i don't have any loans and could go back to school for something else if i wanted to without having to worry about taking out loans or supporting a family
 
sacrament said:
Both parents physicians, wtf are you talking about? My dad was an engineer (at a struggling paper mill in an economically depressed rural town, so he wasn't exactly making what you'd consider an "engineer's salary") and on my mom's side of the family, nobody graduated from high school. She couldn't get a job for many years in that one-horse town, though by the time I was in high school she did find an office job. We were dirt poor when I was growing up. We lived in a tiny studio apartment until I was in high school, when we got a small house. My parents didn't have a dime for me to go to college. I had to work in high school to pay for college, and I had to work in college to pay for rent. Not that any of this is any of your business (and not that it would particularly matter if they were physicians). I don't know where you came up with this bullsh1t, but I think you've got me confused with somebody else. Next time get your facts straight before you decide to make a personal attack, douche-nozzle.


Sacrament: I think he thought you were NRA12002 whose parents are both docs -

I just have a question, why does anyone care, and why are you bashing people for not liking medicine on this thread? Who cares who likes it and who doesn't - doesn't the OP of this thread ask IF you had to do it over again, would you?

Who the heck are all these people to tell others whether they would/should or not? sheesh - get over yourselves, some people don't like what they do, some do.

Grow up - and all this jealousy on here, its disgusting. "Your parents are docs you silver spoon blah blah" Yeah, like NRA had a choice about that? What was he supposed to do? Leave his parents house and go start a life on his own so that he DIDN'T have things easier? Please!

These arguments are dumb.


Quote by EXXLAWGRRRL:

so, i guess the end result of this thread is that medicine sucks horribly for some people and is worth it for other people. not so educational for us premed types. hopefully we're hip to that already.
__________________

Only intelligent thing I've seen on here 🙄
 
sacrament said:
What "soured" me is how completely unintellectual I find the entire pursuit. Most days are pretty damn boring. I think most people of average intelligence could do this job quite well...
Sacrament: Out of curiosity, what made you leave your engineering job? That sounds as if it would have been more your speed in the fulfillment-through-problem-solving department, no? What made you believe you would find medicine more intellectually engaging?
 
sacrament said:
None of the above... I actually didn't find med school to be particularly stressful or painful. It wasn't nearly as difficult or stressful as graduate school or, for that matter, the engineering job I had before I changed fields. In that sense it's been sort of a nice change of pace from my former life. What "soured" me is how completely unintellectual I find the entire pursuit. Most days are pretty damn boring. I think most people of average intelligence could do this job quite well... which isn't really a slam on it, it's just not what I wanted in a career. Depending on the field, your days are a mixture of social work, paperwork, relatively mindless and tedious manual procedures, and note writing.

Thanks for replying…I don’t doubt that being a physician at times can be very mundane. I also believe that the job may not always be that intellectually stimulating and I understand that it is very proceduralized with pre-determined protocols and such. Front-line medicine has to work within the established boundaries, and isn’t quite as directly “cutting-edge” as a layperson may think it is. The PhD types doing high-end research are probably more intellecutally challenged. And yet, if you ask any one of them as an individual, they would probably say their job is still boring. (Someone can have an intellectually stimulating job that becomes boring because of repetition). Most any job involves very specialized repetitive tasks. I currently work at a pharmaceutical company. I find my job, as a single entity, extremely boring; yet what we are doing as a whole (i.e. the company) is fascinating and important – it’s just that no one individual sees the whole process.

I really don’t think that I am all that disolutioned about what becoming a physician is going to be like. I would like to hope that I can find enough satisfaction it it to have made it all worthwhile. Although, thanks for sharing your thoughts for those who may be as aware. Good luck to you on your future endeavors. You never know, life has a strange way of throwing unexpected twists your way when you least expect it – maybe you will stumble into some niche that works for you someday.
 
sacrament said:
OH the pain! OH the sacrifice! OH... whatever. Gimme a break. Taking college chemisty is not pain and sacrifice, taking the MCAT, which any USMLE step puts to total shame, is not pain and sacrifice... Getting rejected is painful, I suppose, but no more so than the pain of anybody else who didn't achieve a goal they had. Pre-meds don't have a monopoly on--or typically even a particularly good grasp of--pain and sacrifice. Getting into medical school means not being a total douchebag like 90% of all college kids are (and not being picky about where you go). If studying, skipping a few parties on the weekends, taking some basic science classes and volunteering at the hospital once a week is pain and sacrifice, then I guess medical school is nothing short of a Soviet-era gulag.



Of course they do! So I guess anybody who doesn't love medicine should either A) lie to pre-meds, or B) just not speak to them. I mostly pursue option B, unless I feel like making fun of somebody.

Dude, you rule. I couldn't have said it better myself.
 
Some days I like medicine. Somedays I hate it. Does that mean I can join this thread and argue with myself? :laugh:





This thread is very silly.
 
Sebastian. said:
Oops, this is true. My bad. 🙁 I still say sacrament is an cantankerous little pissant though. :meanie:

Thanks for perfectly summing up why medicine is (partly) so hateful: sanctimonious, hateful, jealous pricks like you, sebastian. Why the hell do you care if sacrament likes medicine? Does it really matter to you? You don't think that thousands of other people are miserable in a career that is defined by malpractice lawyers, ungreatful patients, and insurance companies? You don't think that other people have been dissapointed by what medicine ended up like? That there's a lot more bullsh1t and a lot less "saving" people that you ever thought there would be? That its populated by dinguses like you that get off on sh1tting on other people - that they don't even know - because their ego is so goddamned enormous it literally induces nausea. You think you make medicine proud? That you're never going to be effected by the unrelenting crap that everyone else has to deal with? Get a f-ing clue. Before you spout off a bunch of make believe bullsh1t about someone you don't know on the fvcking internet you might want to get your facts straight, doctor. Lawyers like to use those kinds of mistakes against you in court - and believe me, you'll end up there eventually. Won't take long for a prick like you to have your ass in court.
 
Sebastian. said:
.

Some people are dissapointed. Some aren't. There's no point in unnecessarily depressing people. Seriously.


You're such a wuss, sebastian. Don't you see. Unnecessarily depressing premeds is FUN. :laugh:
 
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