If you could do it over would you

[funkless]

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I think Sac and Elys are trying to do you pre-meds a favor, or something.


Are they a bit whiny, at times? In this thread they are, but they're usually really funny.
Are they raining on y'all's parade? Maybe, but they were asked their opinion, and they've given it.
Are they sounding eerily like the burned-out attendings of tomorrow? Definitely.

Is it anyone's problem but their own? No.

 

[8744]

Sacrament is absolutely bang on right about most of what he says. I respect the opinions of all of you who are either in medical school or in residency and while I don't typically flaunt my personal experience at others as a way to shut down the debate in this case if you haven't actually done your clinical years as a medical student or worked as a resident you have nothing to say in this conversation.

Certainly medicine is and can be a rewarding career. I am only down on it because I scrambled into a specialty that I don't care for. My mistake. I'm trying to correct it this year.

But that's the point. It's not all sweetness and light and saving the lives of grateful patients. It is quite possible that you will end up doing something that you don't like but which you still tolerate, maybe because you are so far into debt that you can't quit. Maybe because by virtue of continuously going to school for ten or more years towards your goal you actually have no other job skills.

A little wisdom from yer' Uncle Panda: Any job, even being King of the World, can be a grind if you don't love it. As a corrollary, most people in the world work at jobs they don't love. That's life.

The only job I ever loved completely was pizza delivery driver. There was literally no downside to that job.

 

[Stillorgan]

If you haven't actually done your clinical years as a medical student or worked as a resident you have nothing to say in this conversation.

I agree with that. Anyone who hasn't done their clinical years yet, is completey FOS if they pretend to know anything about how medicine is.

Personally, I like the clinical years much better than the basic science years. Those were a real snore. I don't understand how anyone could actually like them better. I guess the workplace isn't for everyone. Not everyone who goes to medical school practices medicine or even go on to a residency. I don't see anything wrong with that.

My experience though, is that the vast majority of medstudents much prefer the clinical years. And most medstudents I know are eager to quit being a student and get on with their career. I wonder if there's more of a tendency to be dissatisfied among those who spend a considerable portion of their life posting on an internet chatboard.

In any case, try to be peaceful, everyone. 😎

 

[Doctor Bagel]

.

It doesn't bother me that sacrament might be dissapointed with medicine. I do think it's $hitty of him (and you) to insist that people further back in the process are unreasonable in expecting not to be. Some people are dissapointed. Some aren't. There's no point in unnecessarily depressing people. Seriously.

amen! this is exactly why i stay away from all pre-law boards. i hated it. lots of people it, but it's absolutely the right thing for some weirdos out there.

 

[gujuDoc]

The only job I ever loved completely was pizza delivery driver. There was literally no downside to that job.

Agreed with the rest of your post, which I have not quoted here. But the above quoted, is something I find interesting. I think I'd hate being a pizza delivery person. Wondering why you enjoyed it soooo much?????



On a side note:

I think the end conclusion is to demonstrate that all the resident and med student posts in this thread show is that medicine is a job with a lot of ups and downs like all other jobs. You either love it, hate it, or love it but are tired with all the burocreatic bullcrap of insurance companies and paperwork.

The common feeling of disappointment and what not are shared by others too, amongst many associate professors at USF who I have talked with in the past. I think the biggest thing to note is that medicine has changed a lot, as Q pointed out. It is no longer as easy as making house calls, you only have a set number of patients you'll be able to see, sometimes you want to treat someone but if they don't have insurance it is not as easy as saying yes to them. Other times insurance companies limit what you can and can't do and pharmaceutical companies try to push you to give drugs rather then you being taught to take a more preventative medicine approach, and at other times you have to deal with patients who don't listen to your advice and just make their health worse rather then better, who may get angry with you and not appreciate what you try to do for them, and so forth. These are the things I've heard discussed amongst the nurses where I recently started working, and what I've heard from physicians in the past. So it is pretty safe to say that while these people are giving us disheartening posts, it is not an uncommon feeling.

I think we should all try to keep this discussion civil and realize we all will find out for ourselves. In the end, the answer to this question is something you'll only be able to find through experience, so if it is in you to do it, then go for it. Otherwise, get out while you have a chance, if you are not completely sure whether this is for you. Listen to everyone, but make your own decisions on your own heart and gut instincts.

 

[ExtraCrispy]

Ask me the original question in a year, when I'm in the throes of my intern year in general surgery, and my answer will probably be different. But for now. . .

Yep, I'd definitely do it again. I was miserable during the first two years of med school, and considered leaving medicine entirely - I became so discouraged that I actively investigated graduate programs in literature. However, the first two years really aren't the work of medicine, and when I reached third year I found that clinical work was as rewarding as I'd hoped. Yep, it can absolutely frustrate you, especially when you show up at 4am to help take care of people, sacrifice time spent being whole and being with family to bend over backwards for your patients, only to have said patients cuss at you because "I don't like woman docs" or b/c you didn't bring them their prune juice at 7 am. Yes, it can royally suck, and I can definitely understand why it disappoints people. The rewards, though, when they happen, are incomparable. I love the path I've chosen.

That said, I have to echo the statement that you need to pick your specialty wisely. During an interview the other day, the chairman of a program asked what I would do if I couldn't have a career in surgery. Without a second thought, I responded "I'd leave medicine" - something I'd never even have considered as a pre-med, but 100% true now. It's a bit frightening how much your outlook changes - what you think will make you happy, and what actually DOES, can be two very different things. I enjoyed all of my rotations just fine, but the only thing I would ever want to do long-term would be surgery. So I suppose the true answer is, would I do it over again if I could still pursue surgery? Absolutely. Would I repeat this path if I could do medicine, but NOT surgery? Well...that's a different story.

 

[NRAI2001]

This is a great example of that bizarre medical personality, the Medicine Nazi. No other field has a version of this. Nobody who works in insurance is so bonkers about insurance that if a fellow insurance adjuster says that they wish they had a different job, the Insurance Nazi leaps down their job and calls them a lazy whining baby. Nobody in engineering is so passionately dedicated to engineering that they verbally rape any other engineer who says that, in retrospect, they wish they'd been an artist. But in medicine, you're either GUNG-HO or you're lazy. I go to work every day, I do what I need to do (and then some), I never complain, and I'm good. But all it takes is the admission that I'd probably be happier doing something else, and BOOYAH, game on. Not even that I hate what I'm doing, not that I'm miserable with what I'm doing, but that it's not what I thought it would be, that it isn't what most people think it is, and that I wish I'd done something different. Enter the Medicine Nazi. Every class has a few of these folks, who believe that a doctor with regrets is a douchebag. Luckily the majority of people are more reasonable (probably because the majority of people feel the same way).

Sac not to bash on you, but why not go into some other field if you hate medicine so much? Why not go back to engineering?

 

[sacrament]

Sac not to bash on you, but why not go into some other field if you hate medicine so much?

I DON'T HATE MEDICINE!! What is wrong with you people?! How many ways and times can I possibly say it? F***, I said as much in the post you just quoted. This thread has been unbelievably aggravating since about page 3. Despite the fact that without me posting it in the general tone will sway substantially away from the average med student's viewpoint, I cannot continue. I feel faint. I'm going to go sit under a tree and drink some sweet tea.

 

[8744]

Agreed with the rest of your post, which I have not quoted here. But the above quoted, is something I find interesting. I think I'd hate being a pizza delivery person. Wondering why you enjoyed it soooo much?????

Oh man, it was a the best job. I got to drive around Burlington, Vermont in the summer with the windows down, the radio blasting those sickening eighties songs that I still enjoy with nothing to think about but finding the right house or dorm in thirty minutes or less. The work was easy, interesting in the peculiar way that any job is interesting (including medicine) when you get to see glimpses of people's private lives, and it didn't pay too badly either.

On top of that I knew that I was only doing it for a few months before classes started and I was moving on to bigger and better things.

What's there not to like about grabbing a stack of pizzas and tearing around town in a beat-up little truck which I didn't own and therefore didn't take care of at all? (Jackrabbit starts, excessive braking around corners, grinding the gears with total equanimity.) Then you jump out of the truck, sprint up four flights of stairs to somebody's dorm room and make their day.

Repeat this little drama all night and around three in the morning you get the happy feeling that comes to all working people when they feel their salary has been fairly earned.

 

[8744]

I DON'T HATE MEDICINE!! What is wrong with you people?! How many ways and times can I possibly say it? F***, I said as much in the post you just quoted. This thread has been unbelievably aggravating since about page 3. Despite the fact that without me posting it in the general tone will sway substantially away from the average med student's viewpoint, I cannot continue. I feel faint. I'm going to go sit under a tree and drink some sweet tea.

Dude, remember years ago when I used to say that medicine wasn't a cult?

Obviously it is to some people.

 

[Buck Strong]

Even as someone who likes medicine and would do it over again, the idea of medicine is completely different from what I envisioned as a pre-med or even the first couple of years as a med student. I'll have to agree with Sac on this one, the pre-meds have no idea what they're getting themselves into, and their comments have little value in this discussion. Personally, 4 years ago, I had no idea what I was getting myself into...and fortunately for me, it worked out well, but I have numerous classmates who entered med school with the same noble intentions but now wouldn't do it over again. Unfortunately, it takes a little bit of blind faith...but for those of you who like me end up loving medicine, it'll be awesome. For the many more of you who'll lose alot of your passion for medicine, that's ok too. Most people in the world aren't passionate about their job, and you'll be making more money with more respect than most of those people. I have no problem with people who aren't passionate about medicine, as long as they do a good job, work hard, and handle their responsibilities. I have no doubt that someone like Sac will still make a great doctor...for pre-meds to have a holier than thou attitude because they think they are going to be passionate about medicine once they're 4th years is ridiculous.

 

[cyanocobalamin]

As an M4 at a medical school that is relatively 'benign' I would have to say that as a pre-med you really have little idea what medical school entails. You go from being a relatively intelligent, functional human being bright and full of energy to being the part of the totem pole that is below ground. It seems like sometimes everything that comes out of your mouth is wrong..at other times it seems like you bust you butt in order to get a relatively neutral evalution. You wake up at 4am so you can ask a bunch of postpartum women if they've passed gas, if their belly hurts, if they're tolerating PO, how much blood is oozing out of their vagina. Then you quickly listen to their hart and lungs, palpate their fundus and say bye bye and go on so you can throw a bunch of notes together so your residents and attendings will be semi-impressed (hmmm FF@U or was it?). Spending 20 minutes a patient hunting down medlists from the MAR and recopying them on progress notes is what I'm paying $30,000 a year for.

This frustration is only a small sample of the tedium and humiliation that comes with being MS-X and I have to admit that the humiliation I have experienced has been scaled down a lot compared to most medical schools. Throw in the fact that you'll have spent a lot of money for all this and will make pauper wages for x years postgraduate (I will make less as a resident than I did working before school) makes it harder to bear sometimes.

But all in all, I still find a precious moment in the rough here and there where I connect with a patient and make them feel a bit better or learn something novel. And I am delighted with the residency path I've chosen. But it's hard to say that I would go through all that again knowing what I know now just because some of the time it really was that bad - though I am bullish on my future and my career going forward.

 

[sacrament]

Oh man, it was a the best job. I got to drive around Burlington, Vermont in the summer with the windows down, the radio blasting those sickening eighties songs that I still enjoy with nothing to think about but finding the right house or dorm in thirty minutes or less. The work was easy, interesting in the peculiar way that any job is interesting (including medicine) when you get to see glimpses of people's private lives, and it didn't pay too badly either.

On top of that I knew that I was only doing it for a few months before classes started and I was moving on to bigger and better things.

What's there not to like about grabbing a stack of pizzas and tearing around town in a beat-up little truck which I didn't own and therefore didn't take care of at all? (Jackrabbit starts, excessive braking around corners, grinding the gears with total equanimity.) Then you jump out of the truck, sprint up four flights of stairs to somebody's dorm room and make their day.

Repeat this little drama all night and around three in the morning you get the happy feeling that comes to all working people when they feel their salary has been fairly earned.

Yeah, my favorite job ever was being a fork truck driver. Cruising around in my little rig, with the heater on, radio blasting, getting into a nice working rhythm... very peaceful, pretty decent money. Good times.

For the folks who say "hey, if you don't love medicine, why don't you just get a different job..." well, that's not how the real world works. It works when you're 22 and the Starbucks isn't cuttin' it for you anymore. It doesn't work when you're already on your third (or fourth, or whatever) career option, you've spent four years and nearly $200,000 on education, and it's time to settle down and get on with life. Some people spend a tremendous amount of their 20s and 30s (and 40s, and 50s...) searching for some mythical perfect job that satisfies their every need. And then some people eventually realize that they can have quite nice lives despite having a less than perfect job or even a pretty mediocre job, and decide to start living rather than keep bouncing around.

I realize that I've been pretty intense in this thread, but I actually do have good intentions. The great majority of pre-meds that I've ever known (including, to some extent, the younger me) seemed to be of the opinion that medicine is a very special sort of job that will surely eliminate for them that omnipresent "career concern" that haunts us, drives us to find meaning and satisfaction in our lives through our work. But very few people find medicine to actually be that job (or find anything to be that job). So this is not to say that medicine is totally sh1t, but most people who enter the field desperately want it to be so much more than it is. Many pre-meds actually, if you talk to them about it, would like to be writers or marine biologists or engineers or whatever, except that they are counting on that supreme satisfaction... "If I become a marine biologist, I'll never achieve that same level of job satisfaction that I'd have as a doctor!" Well, don't bank on it. At the end of the day, your happiness in life is primarily dependent on your personality, your family and friends, and how you spend your free time. That being the case, all you pre-meds need to be completely honest with yourselves and ask if the practice of medicine is itself what interests you (completely independent of what you perceive to be respect from others, warm glowing feelings, overflowing self-satisfaction, etc.) or if you're just chasing a dream. (Being pre-meds of course, you'll all agree that it's definitely the practice of medicine, and I'll know that about 75% of you are lying bastards.)

 

[billydoc]

Yeah, my favorite job ever was being a fork truck driver. Cruising around in my little rig, with the heater on, radio blasting, getting into a nice working rhythm... very peaceful, pretty decent money. Good times.

For the folks who say "hey, if you don't love medicine, why don't you just get a different job..." well, that's not how the real world works. It works when you're 22 and the Starbucks isn't cuttin' it for you anymore. It doesn't work when you're already on your third (or fourth, or whatever) career option, you've spent four years and nearly $200,000 on education, and it's time to settle down and get on with life. Some people spend a tremendous amount of their 20s and 30s (and 40s, and 50s...) searching for some mythical perfect job that satisfies their every need. And then some people eventually realize that they can have quite nice lives despite having a less than perfect job or even a pretty mediocre job, and decide to start living rather than keep bouncing around.

Sacrament, Thank You so much for telling like it really is. I understand that you've shared only your personal exp here. But it's been of a great value to me, and I'm sure to many, many others.
Thanks again 🙂

I realize that I've been pretty intense in this thread, but I actually do have good intentions. The great majority of pre-meds that I've ever known (including, to some extent, the younger me) seemed to be of the opinion that medicine is a very special sort of job that will surely eliminate for them that omnipresent "career concern" that haunts us, drives us to find meaning and satisfaction in our lives through our work. But very few people find medicine to actually be that job (or find anything to be that job). So this is not to say that medicine is totally sh1t, but most people who enter the field desperately want it to be so much more than it is. Many pre-meds actually, if you talk to them about it, would like to be writers or marine biologists or engineers or whatever, except that they are counting on that supreme satisfaction... "If I become a marine biologist, I'll never achieve that same level of job satisfaction that I'd have as a doctor!" Well, don't bank on it. At the end of the day, your happiness in life is primarily dependent on your personality, your family and friends, and how you spend your free time. That being the case, all you pre-meds need to be completely honest with yourselves and ask if the practice of medicine is itself what interests you (completely independent of what you perceive to be respect from others, warm glowing feelings, overflowing self-satisfaction, etc.) or if you're just chasing a dream. (Being pre-meds of course, you'll all agree that it's definitely the practice of medicine, and I'll know that about 75% of you are lying bastards.)

Thanks Sacrament!
No sugar coating, telling it like it really is. I know you're just sharing your personal experience, but it's been very valuable for me, and I'm sure many others. I'm stuck with this indecision: med school or not med school, after 15 years in the health field already, at 35 y.o. with the wife and the kid. Your posts have been quite instrumental in administering a reality check to myself 😀
Have a good one 🙂

 

[XKV]

Yeah, my favorite job ever was being a fork truck driver. Cruising around in my little rig, with the heater on, radio blasting, getting into a nice working rhythm... very peaceful, pretty decent money. Good times.

For the folks who say "hey, if you don't love medicine, why don't you just get a different job..." well, that's not how the real world works. It works when you're 22 and the Starbucks isn't cuttin' it for you anymore. It doesn't work when you're already on your third (or fourth, or whatever) career option, you've spent four years and nearly $200,000 on education, and it's time to settle down and get on with life. Some people spend a tremendous amount of their 20s and 30s (and 40s, and 50s...) searching for some mythical perfect job that satisfies their every need. And then some people eventually realize that they can have quite nice lives despite having a less than perfect job or even a pretty mediocre job, and decide to start living rather than keep bouncing around.

I realize that I've been pretty intense in this thread, but I actually do have good intentions. The great majority of pre-meds that I've ever known (including, to some extent, the younger me) seemed to be of the opinion that medicine is a very special sort of job that will surely eliminate for them that omnipresent "career concern" that haunts us, drives us to find meaning and satisfaction in our lives through our work. But very few people find medicine to actually be that job (or find anything to be that job). So this is not to say that medicine is totally sh1t, but most people who enter the field desperately want it to be so much more than it is. Many pre-meds actually, if you talk to them about it, would like to be writers or marine biologists or engineers or whatever, except that they are counting on that supreme satisfaction... "If I become a marine biologist, I'll never achieve that same level of job satisfaction that I'd have as a doctor!" Well, don't bank on it. At the end of the day, your happiness in life is primarily dependent on your personality, your family and friends, and how you spend your free time. That being the case, all you pre-meds need to be completely honest with yourselves and ask if the practice of medicine is itself what interests you (completely independent of what you perceive to be respect from others, warm glowing feelings, overflowing self-satisfaction, etc.) or if you're just chasing a dream. (Being pre-meds of course, you'll all agree that it's definitely the practice of medicine, and I'll know that about 75% of you are lying bastards.)

I just wanted to thank everyone who's posted - it's probably one of the most useful threads I've read on SDN, flaming and all. Props to Sacrament, Panda, and all the other current MS's, interns, and residents for trying to play it straight for the rest of us. There's a lot of stuff to think about.

 

[Von Hohenheim]

I just wanted to give props to sacrament for being such an awesomely wonderful guy. Until I read this thread I was so confused about medicine and didn't know what to do. Now I feel unburdened. I have a purpose and a great role model. I want to be just like sacrament. He's so great. 👍


Oh, and panda bear is awesome too. I want to be just like him as well. 🙂

 

[NRAI2001]

I just wanted to give props to sacrament for being such an awesomely wonderful guy. Until I read this thread I was so confused about medicine and didn't know what to do. Now I feel unburdened. I have a purpose and a great role model. I want to be just like sacrament. He's so great. 👍


Oh, and panda bear is awesome too. I want to be just like him as well. 🙂

So you were confused about medicine? Has this thread directed you towards or away from medicine? Seems like 90% of people posting on this thread said that they would not do it again.

 

[almost_there]

Would trying to systematize this be helpful? Good experiences and bad personal experiences in medicine: (please fill in with your personal experiences)

GOOD
resuscitating a patient (almost_there: example)

BAD
Little/no time with significant other, family, friends, especially during holidays
Want to help a patient, but cannot due to financial complaints
Unappreciative, rude patients
Patients with persistant "personal choice" lifestyle health issues (obesity, smoking, drugs, alcohol)
Much time spent filling out paperwork, repetitive, bureaucratic
Little intellectual challenge
practicing defensive medicine
choosing specialty to pay off loans

 

[billydoc]

Would trying to systematize this be helpful? Good experiences and bad personal experiences in medicine: (please fill in with your personal experiences)

GOOD
resuscitating a patient (almost_there: example)

BAD
Little/no time with significant other, family, friends, especially during holidays
Want to help a patient, but cannot due to financial complaints
Unappreciative, rude patients
Patients with persistant "personal choice" lifestyle health issues (obesity, smoking, drugs, alcohol)
Much time spent filling out paperwork, repetitive, bureaucratic
Little intellectual challenge
practicing defensive medicine
choosing specialty to pay off loans

Hey Almost_ There!
Given all of these pro's and con's would you still go into medicne? Sorry if I didn't understand it in your post.
Thanks

 

[NCSMILES]

what about dentistry? have any of you pre-meds thought of that career path since all of the md folks dislike medicine so much? it seems like most of the dds that i have talked with agreed they would do it all over again.

btw, i am not trying to start a riot, i am just curious...

 

[dentalman09]

do you guys (physicians), which I highly respect, feel this way...or is this guy/girl a douche?

Media is partially a reflection of society. And in reality, no one has answered why the number of dental applicants has decreased.

Only a top dental student would even pass medical school (forget honoring), which is why OMFS programs with the MD require NBDE percentages in the 90s, something few dental students obtain.

Valid Point: If dentistry is so great and so easy why do so few people apply to dental school? And how many of those are med school rejects?

so nyah
😛 😛 😛 😛 😛 😛

 

[ORBITAL BEBOP]

do you guys (physicians), which I highly respect, feel this way...or is this guy/girl a douche?

No more douchey that this inflammatory post YOU started. Way to take things out of context. You instigated this!!

POSTED BY DENTALMAN09:
[What is the median hourly rate for each profession/specialty?


Answer: (based on help from others/websites)

1. OMFS 336/36 = $179.5/hr
2. Endodontist 303.9/36 = $162.4/hr
3. Pedodontiac Dentist 294.4/36 = $157.1/hr
4. Orthodontist 279.4/36 = $149.0/hr
5. Orthopedic Surgeon 335.8/54.1 = $119.4/hr

6. Periodontist 216.4/36 = $115.4/hr
7. Pathologist 246.5/41.6 = $114.0/hr
8. Rad (Diag)/Rad Onc 327.7/58.5 = $107.7/hr
9. Prosthodontist 190.9/36 = $102.0/hr
10. Opthalomologist 229.2/43.7 = $100.9/hr

11. Dermatologist 219.5/42 = $100.5/hr
12. General Dentists 173.1/36 = $92.4/hr
13. Neurosurg/plastics Surgeon 275.2/59.6 = $88.8/hr
14. Urologist 264.5/57.4 = $88.6/hr
15. Surgeon (gen) 263.7/58.2 = $87.1/hr

16. Anesthesiologist 244.7/58.7 = $80.2/hr
17. ENT 214.5/52.1 = $79.2/hr
18. OB/GYN 227/55.7 = $78.4/hr
19. EM 197.1/50 = $75.8/hr
20. Neurologist 183.1/53.7 = $65.6/hr

21. Psychiatrist 145.7/44 = $63.7/hr
22. IM 164.1/55.6 = $56.8/hr
23. FP 146.5/50.7 = $55.6/hr
24. Pediatrician 137.8/49.4 = $53.6/hr

http://www.ada.org/ada/prod/survey/...orts.asp#income
Survey of Dental Practice. c. 2003 Edition, American Dental Association

http://medicine.wustl.edu/~residenc...pec/byspec.html
Physician Socioeconomic Statistics. c. 2003 Edition, American Medical Association

**I am not sure if the hours of the OMFS and Rad Onc are accurate. I believe they should be higher and lower, respectively.]

 

[caldoc44]

No more douchey that this inflammatory post YOU started. Way to take things out of context. You instigated this!!

POSTED BY DENTALMAN09:
[What is the median hourly rate for each profession/specialty?


Answer: (based on help from others/websites)

1. OMFS 336/36 = $179.5/hr
2. Endodontist 303.9/36 = $162.4/hr
3. Pedodontiac Dentist 294.4/36 = $157.1/hr
4. Orthodontist 279.4/36 = $149.0/hr
5. Orthopedic Surgeon 335.8/54.1 = $119.4/hr

6. Periodontist 216.4/36 = $115.4/hr
7. Pathologist 246.5/41.6 = $114.0/hr
8. Rad (Diag)/Rad Onc 327.7/58.5 = $107.7/hr
9. Prosthodontist 190.9/36 = $102.0/hr
10. Opthalomologist 229.2/43.7 = $100.9/hr

11. Dermatologist 219.5/42 = $100.5/hr
12. General Dentists 173.1/36 = $92.4/hr
13. Neurosurg/plastics Surgeon 275.2/59.6 = $88.8/hr
14. Urologist 264.5/57.4 = $88.6/hr
15. Surgeon (gen) 263.7/58.2 = $87.1/hr

16. Anesthesiologist 244.7/58.7 = $80.2/hr
17. ENT 214.5/52.1 = $79.2/hr
18. OB/GYN 227/55.7 = $78.4/hr
19. EM 197.1/50 = $75.8/hr
20. Neurologist 183.1/53.7 = $65.6/hr

21. Psychiatrist 145.7/44 = $63.7/hr
22. IM 164.1/55.6 = $56.8/hr
23. FP 146.5/50.7 = $55.6/hr
24. Pediatrician 137.8/49.4 = $53.6/hr

http://www.ada.org/ada/prod/survey/...orts.asp#income
Survey of Dental Practice. c. 2003 Edition, American Dental Association

http://medicine.wustl.edu/~residenc...pec/byspec.html
Physician Socioeconomic Statistics. c. 2003 Edition, American Medical Association

**I am not sure if the hours of the OMFS and Rad Onc are accurate. I believe they should be higher and lower, respectively.]

Those salaries are way way off. I know hospitalist IMs making $90 an hour (starting out). Neurosurgeon $88 an hour???

 

[dentalman09]

No more douchey that this inflammatory post YOU started. Way to take things out of context. You instigated this!!

POSTED BY DENTALMAN09:
[What is the median hourly rate for each profession/specialty?

(should be an edited sign here)

Answer: (based on help from others/websites)

1. OMFS 336/36 = $179.5/hr
2. Endodontist 303.9/36 = $162.4/hr
3. Pedodontiac Dentist 294.4/36 = $157.1/hr
4. Orthodontist 279.4/36 = $149.0/hr
5. Orthopedic Surgeon 335.8/54.1 = $119.4/hr

6. Periodontist 216.4/36 = $115.4/hr
7. Pathologist 246.5/41.6 = $114.0/hr
8. Rad (Diag)/Rad Onc 327.7/58.5 = $107.7/hr
9. Prosthodontist 190.9/36 = $102.0/hr
10. Opthalomologist 229.2/43.7 = $100.9/hr

11. Dermatologist 219.5/42 = $100.5/hr
12. General Dentists 173.1/36 = $92.4/hr
13. Neurosurg/plastics Surgeon 275.2/59.6 = $88.8/hr
14. Urologist 264.5/57.4 = $88.6/hr
15. Surgeon (gen) 263.7/58.2 = $87.1/hr

16. Anesthesiologist 244.7/58.7 = $80.2/hr
17. ENT 214.5/52.1 = $79.2/hr
18. OB/GYN 227/55.7 = $78.4/hr
19. EM 197.1/50 = $75.8/hr
20. Neurologist 183.1/53.7 = $65.6/hr

21. Psychiatrist 145.7/44 = $63.7/hr
22. IM 164.1/55.6 = $56.8/hr
23. FP 146.5/50.7 = $55.6/hr
24. Pediatrician 137.8/49.4 = $53.6/hr

http://www.ada.org/ada/prod/survey/...orts.asp#income
Survey of Dental Practice. c. 2003 Edition, American Dental Association

http://medicine.wustl.edu/~residenc...pec/byspec.html
Physician Socioeconomic Statistics. c. 2003 Edition, American Medical Association

**I am not sure if the hours of the OMFS and Rad Onc are accurate. I believe they should be higher and lower, respectively.]

Please don't be a douche. I beg of you. If you were to read my post at the beginning, you have seen my post only ask the question of "What is the median hourly rate for each profession/specialty?". I did not post the rates on a MD Residency forum to piss people off. I just asked if anyone knew the average "hourly rate" of each speciality. I finally posted these rates (as you can see, I made an ANSWER section...thanks for erasing my Edited sign that suggest I revised my post after I found the answers), when someone told me to look at the AMA/ADA websites to get a decent estimate of what each speciality on "average" makes. I did not just post these rates immediately until I found my sources from the AMA and ADA.

Get things strait before you start making premature, pre-med comments!

Those salaries are way way off. I know hospitalist IMs making $90 an hour (starting out). Neurosurgeon $88 an hour???

I know this, I know someone, I know blah blah blah. Personally I know a oral surgeon who was offered $400K to work as an associate in a average group practice in Palo Alto. Who gives a crap?!? Anyone can refute the data from AMA by saying they know someone who was offered this and that. Once again, my averages are from AMA and ADA. If you seriously don't support and believe the accuracy of your professional organization, then good luck dude. These are averages from your AMERICAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION. It's not like I'm using data from a random survey or a dental-biased company.
Do you really think all neurosurgeons are offered $400-600K a year? There are many that make a lot of money, but there are those that make significantly less than that. This is the same with OMFS or orthodontics....some can make half a mil, but then again there are those that make only $150-200K.

I'm over this...look at my sources and then see that I just divided it by 52 weeks and the respective hours given on the Physician Socioeconomic Statistics. c. 2003 Edition AMA. If you look carefully at the average salary, most physicians make significantly more than dentists. However, you have to understand that the work hours are different. That's why some of the dental specialities are up on the "hour rate" chart.

Cheers. No more pissing match between pre-meds and pre-dds.

 

[bennyhanna]

I agree with that. Anyone who hasn't done their clinical years yet, is completey FOS if they pretend to know anything about how medicine is.

Personally, I like the clinical years much better than the basic science years. Those were a real snore. I don't understand how anyone could actually like them better. I guess the workplace isn't for everyone. Not everyone who goes to medical school practices medicine or even go on to a residency. I don't see anything wrong with that.

My experience though, is that the vast majority of medstudents much prefer the clinical years. And most medstudents I know are eager to quit being a student and get on with their career. I wonder if there's more of a tendency to be dissatisfied among those who spend a considerable portion of their life posting on an internet chatboard.

In any case, try to be peaceful, everyone. 😎

Wow.... now that is a FOS post. Now let me see... a Dr. or resident, though he/she is working sooooo hard pleasing everyone, so many endless selfless hours of time spent, spends 20 minutes with a pt. and that is medicine?

Well, when your done wiping your patiets A$$, cleaning up their vomit, give me a call... and when you notice their behaviour change ever so slightly from a few hours ago or a few days ago that gives you cause to consider health changes.... oh wait... you can't do that if you see the pt. for only 20 minutes, can you?

Hmmm.... who oh who could we get to do this.... the lowly RNs. Good thing they don't know about medicine either.

If the residents weren't there to look in the med books to tell the RN the prescribed medication that they've heard a billion times before but wait patiently so he/she can find it and the dose, we'd all be in trouble.

Good thing that you're there too when I get in a car wreck.... wait, no... that's an EMT starting that IV, decompressing, intubating, defibrillating.... they too, are clueless about medicine. How do these people do it?

Lastly, when you're wiping your grandmother's A$$ or empty'in grandpa's colostomy bag... no wait, that would be the CNA doing that, huh?

Wow. Now that I look at it, medicine really is nothing to these other healthcare providers (should we even call them that, since they really don't know what's going on?), and all these fools know nothing about it.

Good thing there are residents to tell us how it really is. For those healthcare workers who spend shifts with their patients, days, weeks and months, and are greeted occasionaly by a doc for 5-20 minutes, they're missing out on what medicine really is, huh?

Maybe next time your stopping in to see a pt. you could take a little extra time to let all the other healthcare workers know that you're the one who knows how medicine is, not them.

We'll all feel alot better to know that we've all been misinformed once you tell us how it really is. 🙂

Whew. Your 20 minutes of pt. contact saved the day.

 

[ORBITAL BEBOP]

see below

 

[ORBITAL BEBOP]

I agree with that. Anyone who hasn't done their clinical years yet, is completey FOS if they pretend to know anything about how medicine is.
QUOTE]

Wow.... now that is a FOS post. Now let me see... a Dr. or resident, though he/she is working sooooo hard pleasing everyone, so many endless selfless hours of time spent, spends 20 minutes with a pt. and that is medicine?

Well, when your done wiping your patiets A$$, cleaning up their vomit, give me a call... and when you notice their behaviour change ever so slightly from a few hours ago or a few days ago that gives you cause to consider health changes.... or wait... you can't do that if you see the pt. for only 20 minutes, can you?

Hmmm.... who oh who could we get to do this.... the lowly RNs. Good thing they don't know about medicine either.

If the residents weren't there to look in the med books to tell the RN the prescribed medication that they've heard a billion times before but wait patiently so he/she can find it and the dose, we'd all be in trouble.

Good thing that you're there too when I get in a car wreck.... wait, no... that's an EMT starting that IV, decompressing, intubating, defibrillating.... they too, are clueless about medicine.

Lastly, when you're wiping your grandmother's A$$... no wait, that would be the CNA doing that, huh?

Wow. Now that I look at it, medicine really is nothing, and all these fools know nothing about it. Good thing there are residents to tell us how it really is. For those healthcare workers who spend shifts with their patients, days, weeks and months, and are greeted occasionaly by a doc for 5-20 minutes, their missing out on what medicine really is, huh?

Maybe next time your stopping in to see a pt. you could take a little extra time to let all the other healthcare workers know that you're the one who knows how medicine is, not them. We'll all feel alot better to know that we've all been misinformed once you tell us how it really is. 🙂

Whew. Your 20 minutes of pt. contact saved the day.

You're right. Let's get rid of physicians and have RN's run everything. They have a great deal of education. When they started out, they knew everything too. And they love having real responsibility for ANYTHING.

20 minutes of pt contact but hours of rounding, discussing, and researching patients. Just the original H and P takes quite a long time. And sometimes there is more than one pt to round on.

Maybe according to your philosophy, residents went to school for 8 years and huge debts to wipe a**. One resident should be assigned per patient to check for these mental status changes that you find to be ubiquitous.

And I forget, do anesthesiologists intubate too? Or is it just EMT's? Maybe we should let EMT's perform the surgery on the patients from the field.

And your porcelin veneers should save many lives. Heaven forbid real doctors manage CHF and cardiac arrests.

 

[gujuDoc]

Wow I'm surprised this thread is still going on, and turning into more and more of a pissing contest then ever.

I thought all the important highlights were already made.

 

[bennyhanna]

You're right. Let's get rid of physicians and have RN's run everything. They have a great deal of education. When they started out, they knew everything too. And they love having real responsibility for ANYTHING.

20 minutes of pt contact but hours of rounding, discussing, and researching patients. Just the original H and P takes quite a long time. And sometimes there is more than one pt to round on.

Maybe according to your philosophy, residents went to school for 8 years and huge debts to wipe a**. One resident should be assigned per patient to check for these mental status changes that you find to be ubiquitous.

And I forget, do anesthesiologists intubate too? Or is it just EMT's? Maybe we should let EMT's perform the surgery on the patients from the field.

And your porcelin veneers should save many lives. Heaven forbid real doctors manage CHF and cardiac arrests.

The attitute that 8 years of education plus 20 minutes of patient contact = you're the only one who has a clue about anything in medicine is typical to the 'pre-med/med' mindset.

Fortunately, I've had the fortune to meet some of the very few, and rare, physicians who reallly don't have this A$$hole mindset.

Beleive it or not, yes, a PA, NP, RN, RT, EMT might have the slightest clue about something in medicine... though they be only 'observers' of your noble plight.

There are those few docs, who went in to medicine purely for giving of self for other's benefit, and who are too concerned about bettering their patients and themselves, that realize that medicine is a compilation of healthcare workers, and they know that beleive it or not, other healthcare workers have brains too. These few docs somehow skipped the head up the A$$ mentality of the all knowing god like doc, for whom the world turns.

Believe it or not, a lot goes on in medicine that can't be done without these brainless nobodies.

Lets overlook all other levels of eduction, be it RN/Phd, PA/MS, Pharm D, etc... for your education far exceeds all others on earth. It is that fact that gives you the right to say all other healthcare workers no not what they do.

Like I said... the next time you're in to see a pt. for 20 minutes, stop by and let the other healthcare workers that they don't know what their doing, and that its a good thing you're there to tell them how it really is. Then, let them all know how long you went to school, and how this trumps all other levels of schooling, and so all must bow before you.

You'd be a much better doc if you'd realize your lowly healthcare servant minions below you maybe have a clue about medicine.... Well.... in your case you'd probaly assume some of your omnipotent 'aura' of knowledge probably rubbed off on them.

 

[ORBITAL BEBOP]

The attitute that 8 years of education plus 20 minutes of patient contact = you're the only one who has a clue about anything in medicine is typical to the 'pre-med/med' mindset.

Fortunately, I've had the fortune to meet some of the very few, and rare, physicians who reallly don't have this A$$hole mindset.

Beleive it or not, yes, a PA, NP, RN, RT, EMT might have the slightest clue about something in medicine... though they be only 'observers' of your noble plight.

There are those few docs, who went in to medicine purely for giving of self for other's benefit, and who are too concerned about bettering their patients and themselves, that realize that medicine is a compilation of healthcare workers, that beleive it or not, have brains too. These few docs somehow skipped the head up the A$$ mentality of the all knowing god like doc, for whom the world turns.

Believe it or not, a lot goes on in medicine that can't be done without these brainless nobodies.

Lets overlook all other levels of eduction, be in RN/Phd etc... for your education far exceeds all others on earth. It is that fact that gives you the right to say all other healthcare workers no not what they do.

Like I said... the next time you're in to see a pt. for 20 minutes, stop by and let the other healtcare workers that they don't know what their doing, and that its a good thing you're there to tell them how it really is. Then, let them all know how long you went to school, and how this trumps all other levels of schooling, and so all must bow before you.

Ah yes, I have run into numerous Rn's/PHd's. Never LPN's who try to give me advice to make things better for themselves.

And did you go into dentistry for the 'giving of self for other's benefits'? Tell that to your next ZOOM patient you treat for free.

 

[bennyhanna]

Ah yes, I have run into numerous Rn's/PHd's. Never LPN's who try to give me advice to make things better for themselves.

And did you go into dentistry for the 'giving of self for other's benefits'? Tell that to your next ZOOM patient you treat for free.

Actually, yes.

Having had no enamel on my teeth due to a childhood fever, having severe carries, having to wait months for root canals (usually 7-9), overdosing on ibuprophen and tylenol daily until I got treated to kill the pain in my mouth, not being able to eat or drink anything cold or hot, not getting crowns because we couldn't afford them, and growing up poor... yes, I am going into dentistry to do it for free, or at cost working on grants, and on missions to other countries, so that others won't have to experience that type of pain.

I've had a temporary on since highschool, when its supposed to be on for a few months, and now I'm working and going to school and able to afford it, I've finally completed my dental treatments... 4 root canals, 4 crowns, tens of fillings and removals, thousands of dollars.

Most people are in to see an endodontist within a few days at most, more likely the same day or next for a painful root canal. Yet people do have to wait.

I'll be sure not to have your mentality toward the supportive healthcare workers in my field... somehow, I think one can go further, and be something more, if you don't have a god-complex and realize the value of the support.

But thanks for thinking I was in it for the money.

 

[ORBITAL BEBOP]

Actually, yes.

Having had no enamel on my teeth due to a childhood fever, having severe carries, having to wait months for root canals (usually 7-9), overdosing on ibuprophen and tylenol daily until I got treated to kill the pain in my mouth, not being able to eat or drink anything cold or hot, not getting crowns because we couldn't afford them, and growing up poor... yes, I am going into dentistry to do it for free, or at cost working on grants, and on missions to other countries, so that others won't have to experience that type of pain.

I've had a temporary on since highschool, when its supposed to be on for a few months, and now I'm working and going to school and able to afford it, I've finally completed my dental treatments... 4 root canals, 4 crowns, tens of fillings and removals, thousands of dollars.

But thanks for thinking I was in it for the money.

I wouldnt blame for being in it for the money. Lets see how many charity patients you see (that you are not required to) after leasing your office and equipment.

 

[bennyhanna]

I wouldnt blame for being in it for the money. Lets see how many charity patients you see (that you are not required to) after leasing your office and equipment.

If you'd like, I trully will keep you updated, seriously. I'm working on what I need to do for grants, and starting more. There are several dental surgeons I shadow who do just that, for similar reasons too. Its very possible. There are several federal, state, and local grants for dentists to do just that. So office building/equipment gets paid for in exchange for x years of free/low-income service.

So, it will be my focus... the patient... not how much I know and how much everyone else doesn't. Who knows, the lowly hygenist or assistant might actually have a higher IQ, or maybe they aced the MCAT and had a 4.0 through highschool and college, and considererd medicine, but thought they'd love another carrer instead, or opted for family time...

 

[bennyhanna]

.

 

[ORBITAL BEBOP]

.

Look, as a physician the responsibility falls upon him/her. I dont try to make anyone feel stupid, but not everyone's advice can be taken. We have to make snap decisions, for example, in a code situation the physician is responsible. No meds are given by the nurses no matter how much they know or how long they have been there. The lawsuits fall on our heads.

 

[billydoc]

😡 🙄
This thread is way too long, but keep it on topic please

 

[bennyhanna]

Look, as a physician the responsibility falls upon him/her. I dont try to make anyone feel stupid, but not everyone's advice can be taken. We have to make snap decisions, for example, in a code situation the physician is responsible. No meds are given by the nurses no matter how much they know or how long they have been there. The lawsuits fall on our heads.

Agreed. Though, as you probably know, code medication administration varies by particular physician and situation. Medics, pre-hospitally, have a choice of meds to give in a code, RN's even more, PA's still more, if authorized and within their scope... I'm not sure how it is for RNs/PA's, but for medics, depending on state and physician, they can give anything they have per standing or online orders... the 'scope' is defined by the MD and thus responsibility falls on him/her, but they still have a choice on meds to give in a code.

I assume I mis-interpreted your initial post then. And, though a large amount of responsibility does fall on the physician (because you're worth more in court), PA's, RN's and medics must carry malpractice insurance too... so they must be responsible, to an extent, for their 'medical knowledge'?

 

[ORBITAL BEBOP]

Agreed. Though, as you probably know, code medication administration varies by particular physician and situation. Medics, pre-hospitally, have a choice of meds to give in a code, RN's even more, PA's still more, if authorized and within their scope... I'm not sure how it is for RNs/PA's, but for medics, depending on state and physician, they can give anything they have per standing or online orders... the 'scope' is defined by the MD and thus responsibility falls on him/her, but they still have a choice on meds to give in a code.

I assume I mis-interpreted your initial post then. And, though a large amount of responsibility does fall on the physician (because you're worth more in court), PA's, RN's and medics must carry malpractice insurance too... so they must be responsible, to an extent, for their 'medical knowledge'?

Right, but since PA's work under physician's, as do nurses, they are still responsible (ie outpt setting). And their malpractice insurance costs far less than a physicians.

 

[bennyhanna]

Right, but since PA's work under physician's, as do nurses, they are still responsible (ie outpt setting). And their malpractice insurance costs far less than a physicians.

However, keeping on thread topic, of course...

... If I read this thread correctly, then no, you don't have final say or get to decide exactly what goes on.

An MBA (maybe even a random PhD) who's the head of your hospital, your malpractice insurance company, or your patient's insurance company get's to tell you what you will and will not do, and in what order, as cited so many times in this thread as a reason for not wanting to do 'it' again, or for not doing it in the first place.

 

[DrNick2006]

MS4, yes I would do it again. Medicine is a calling for me. I don't care if it is difficult, it is what I was meant to do and I accept the sacrifice of personal freedom, possible relationships etc. BUT everyone must understand that there is enourmous sacrifice involved in a medical career.

A thought on "would I do it over" questions to physicians. Older physicians grew up in a system where they were GOD, got paid way too much and were in charge and autonomous. THese things have changed during thier career and obviuosly when you are used to such perks you don't like the change, hence these physicians now feel underpaid, overworked and marginalized in importance and decision making capacity. New physicians however have been acustomed to these things and so I feel are less likely to have these feelings within the current medical system, and so less likely to regret our decisions in the future assuming that the medical system does not change in any negative way in the future (could it really get much worse?).

 

[LAZYGUY]

I would do it over again, without one doubt. 👍

Medicine is a difficult profession with many problems and unfortunately, the priorities of our society are placed on getting rich, quickly. Many of us could easily do most anything we put our minds to....but to be physicians, ultimately, for me is a privilege unmet by any other I've seen.

 

[NRAI2001]

I would do it over again, without one doubt. 👍

Medicine is a difficult profession with many problems and unfortunately, the priorities of our society are placed on getting rich, quickly. Many of us could easily do most anything we put our minds to....but to be physicians, ultimately, for me is a privilege unmet by any other I've seen.

Your only a MSII.

Why is it a priviledge?

 

[LAZYGUY]

Ultimately, playing any small role in the health of individuals is gratifying. Surely you may think that an MS2 could have no significant involvement in medicine, which is the reason why you wrote this post. But I, as well as over half of my classmates have participated in community health programs and out-of-country missionary trips where we are giving vaccinations, taking histories, helping prescribe meds, and doing many parts of a physical. In fact, my medical school collegues were front and center at 2a.m. at kelly air force base when the individuals of the Katrina Hurricane were arriving and needed simple medical treatment or just replacement meds for chronic dz. So to many, medicine means so much less because they don't realize the positive things that can be done to help the community. When the CDC arrived in San Antonio, they got briefed not by chairs of departments of medicine but by medical students who had literally changed the structure of the make-shift hospital that the American Red-cross had set up to a more efficient system.

You may have written this post in frustration, but not every student follows the linear path of having their heads in the books for the first 2 years. I have the honor of saying that medicine has been a blessing in my life and that, yes, it is a privilege.

oh and its "you're" 😀

 

[fun8stuff]

Ultimately, playing any small role in the health of individuals is gratifying. Surely you may think that an MS2 could have no significant involvement in medicine, which is the reason why you wrote this post. But I, as well as over half of my classmates have participated in community health programs and out-of-country missionary trips where we are giving vaccinations, taking histories, helping prescribe meds, and doing many parts of a physical. In fact, my medical school collegues were front and center at 2a.m. at kelly air force base when the individuals of the Katrina Hurricane were arriving and needed simple medical treatment or just replacement meds for chronic dz. So to many, medicine means so much less because they don't realize the positive things that can be done to help the community. When the CDC arrived in San Antonio, they got briefed not by chairs of departments of medicine but by medical students who had literally changed the structure of the make-shift hospital that the American Red-cross had set up to a more efficient system.

You may have written this post in frustration, but not every student follows the linear path of having their heads in the books for the first 2 years. I have the honor of saying that medicine has been a blessing in my life and that, yes, it is a privilege.

oh and its "you're" 😀

I think he/she probably wrote that because in order to do something again, technically you have to have at least done it once. You have't even completed med school or residency- hence, hence you cannot say whether you would do it again. It is as simple as that.

 

[humuhumu]

I think he/she probably wrote that because in order to do something again, technically you have to have at least done it once. You have't even completed med school or residency- hence, hence you cannot say whether you would do it again. It is as simple as that.

True. However, I hope people realize that "if you could do it over" shouldn't be taken literally. What the OP is really asking is this: "Knowing what you know now, is this still the career path you would choose?" I enjoyed college and I'm glad I had the opportunity, but it doesn't mean I would literally want to relive the entire college experience. I think there are many doctors who would never want to do med school and residency a second time, but are still pleased with their career choice.

 

[NRAI2001]

I think he/she probably wrote that because in order to do something again, technically you have to have at least done it once. You have't even completed med school or residency- hence, hence you cannot say whether you would do it again. It is as simple as that.

Thats exactly what I meant.

As an MS2 you havent really performed much in a real clinical sense. Sure you may have helped patients with minor things like replace meds, give vaccinations...etc But you have not had to deal with insurance companies, malpractice insurance, people sueing you, late nights on call, bitter patients, bitter nurses, bitter doctors, your bitter wife and kids (since you ll see them less frequently)...etc.

I didnt post the MS2 comment to bash you in anyway, just meant to say you have only had really 1.5 years of experience in the field, most of it being studying in classrooms. Just like anything else the inital excitment and sense of accomplishment will likely wear off once you get some more experience. Then you ll have a more realistic perspective (wether it be good or bad).

O yea Lazy Guy, your a good speller 👍

 

[billydoc]

Bump!
Sorry guys! I just couldn't let this one die a slow and painful death of being on the 2nd page
Please keep posting,and sharing the real deal with all of us. There are no bad posts on this subject (except for the one I'm writing now )Whatever your situation is please let us know if you would or would not do medical/osteopathic school/residency again,knowing what you know now.
TIA

 

[DcS]

I only managed to read about 10 pages of this thread, but figured I would put this out there for any premed who is wavering on their decision to enter medicine.

It's obvious that over time, a significant percentage of MDs do not enjoy their profession. I am a 4th year dental student. Yah, cue the "couldn't get into med school" and every other tired cliche. I can say one thing for sure. I have met hundreds of dentists over the past several years, and almost every one of them absolutely LOVE their job. I have met a lot of different people in my life, from the general public to my patients. I have honestly never met another group of people in a profession who genuinely love their job like dentists.

As I said before, please save me the old tired statements about MDs and DDSs. I think it all stems from insecurities on both sides of the fence. But to this day I don't understand MDs feeling that dentistry is the bastard stepchild. I understand a knowledge of the entire body is not necessary, but to me it's just another area of the body that someone focuses their interest on.

I faced the decision 4 years ago to go into medicine or dentistry. I don't care what any of you think, I could have done either. I worked with members of both professions, and in the end just could not pass up the fact that every dentist I observed loved their work. Consider this...when looking for a dentist to observe in undergrad, all I had to do was pick up the yellow pages. I had the first 4 I called gladly invite me, a stranger, into their office to stand over them. It's because they love to share something they enjoy doing so much. Do you know what type of responses I got from MDs? Quite different. Is it even possible to get one on the phone without being a patient?

I'm not saying one is better than the other. But with dentistry you get the satisfaction of patient care, the autonomy to own your own business, and you get to raise a family and see your kids every night. While the average MD is pissing and moaning about how us dental students were the med school rejects, we are out enjoying our life day in and day out. I love the fact that people talk crap about dentistry. It is one of the best-kept secrets around. And for those who feel the necessity to be the over-achiever...specialize. There are various interesting and great fields to get another 2-3 years of residency pursuing.

In the end, what's important to you? Medicine is an incredible career and there are plenty of people who are happy. I just think people need to really evaluate their reasons for entering it should they decide to take on that responsibility.

 

[Diane L. Evans]

HE** no I would not do it again. But I had a real job before coming into medicine with almost equivalent pay. Medical school is tough to get through and then residency is harder. But do I love what I do, absolutely I wouldn't trade my job for the world.

It is a hard decision to make; like computer science or molecular biology medicine is a language of its own which takes almost a decade to master. The competition is stiff, the hours are long, and sometimes you get the ungrateful patient or the cranky nurse or the belittling chief resident that can make you ask yourself why...

Life is not always greener on the other side!
Good luck

 

[gujuDoc]

So recently I was talking to a neurologist about this very same question. Before I continue, I'll give some of his background.........

He is of the older generation, and completed his medical education and training in the late 60's or early 70's at Columbia School of Physicians and Surgeons, with residency training primarily being at Bellevue hospital which is used by both Columbia and NYU for clinical training and known for a number of rare cases not seen at your typical hospital. From there he went on to Vermont in a teaching position, then onto USF in a teaching position when the med school was opened in the mid 70's, and a few years after that he decided to go into private practice for 15 years. In the mid 90's he came back to USF COM as an associate professor and now serves as the residency director.

Here were his thoughts on this subject.......

The simple answer he gave to this question is that "Yes" he would do it over again. However, he felt that he truly understood why many physicians would not do it again, and went on to emphasize a point made by Benny earlier......that in this day and age that many physicians are expected 20 minutes and see patients as customers in a checkout line rather then as individuals, and that doctors are being treated as if they should act like robots. In his earlier days he could spend a hour or more with patients getting to know them and not just deal with the medical aspect but the humanistic aspects as well, and he felt a lot of the humanism is leaving medicine with the advent of HMO companies pushing you to see patients in 10-20 minutes. Often times, he went on, HMO company reps take a walk around on rounds with him and go away with the feeling that they really had no idea what really goes on in medicine and being amazed by how much time was really needed. So what it comes down to is that fact that many HMO companies want you to spend such limited time with patients but they don't really understand the fact that more time is needed and understand all the humanistic aspects of medicine much, which causes for a lot of disappointment. He also felt that many older physicians who are disappointed with medicine are not able to adapt to the changes in medicine, but that is a point that refers more to physicians of his generation than to all of you current residents. In medicine, he said a lot of current healthcare issues lie in the fact that they want to treat it like you should be following some protocol rather then thinking, and using your brain to solve the problems whereas in his hay day, he could spent a lot more time with patients to get to understand their problems and think about what really would be the best course of action, rather then being so limited in what he should do. HMO companies wish to treat each patient the same but each patient is different and each case is different, and these things he felt were what brought about problems in medicine. When you say doctors are only spending 20 minutes with a patient, and not doing much, think about this........Is it the physician's fault or the HMO and PPO companies that are running our healthcare systems that are at fault?? I'm going to go with the latter of the two scenarios, after not just listening to this doctor, but also after working in a doctor's office for a month where I heard the nurses and other healthcare workers constantly complaining about similar issues.

As an example of the problems described, he told us a story about a woman who was having some sort of attack. I think it was a stroke or a seizure or something of that nature. But at any rate, he knew they were having the problem they were having and had them go to the ER to get whatever operation or treatment, yet the workers there insisted that they get an MRI in the situation where it wasn't needed because it was blatantly clear what was wrong. And why were they told to get an MRI?? Because HMO companies dictated it like some sort of protocol.

In conclusion, this is just some of the thoughts on medicine from an actual practicing physician at my university, and hence something for other premeds to think about when idealistic perceptions of medicine are being spewed.