If you could do it over would you

[PoorMD]

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I certainly cannot comment on what it is like treating drug addicts. I am not in med school yet, and I must admit that that is one aspect that gives me pause. But,...

I am sick of all these posts that say law and investment banking are the way to go. These posts are from med students or residents that have NO idea what those fields are truly like. Yes, everyone knows someone who did very, very well as a banker, lawyer, real estate mogul, etc. Yes, these can be lucrative fields. But, the best opportunities in these fields are restricted to those that graduate from the best (Top 10 or so) law or business schools, and those that are near the top 10-20% of their class. Also, useless factors such as family pedigree, undergraduate college, prep school education and how well one performs on invalid and irrelevant personality tests are considered by hiring managers in these fields. Outsiders need not apply.

Fact: if you go to med school, you will become a doctor, and you will do well financially. Some physicians do extremely well, but these are a minority. And you will have job security (which you will NEVER have in I-Banking). Of course, none of that matters if you don't like practicing medicine.

Finally, if you don't like reading posts from premeds, you can either ignore them, or simply ignore these forums altogether. I personally don't care what your boyfriend and your father went through; that is just as irrelevant to the discussion.

Touchdown lexrageorge!! Very well said. In the future though bare in mind that ELysium is one of those "daughters of a Doctor" who thought it would be the only way and she would get so much respect from the nurses and her life would be stars and blue skies and.... then she wakes up one morning and realizes "oh wow I did this for the prestige, not the job!" and realized she is an idiot.
A lot of disgruntled residents or med students like Elysium were those once-starry-eyed pre-meds.. You can always tell when someone has been a prissy little bi*#& their whole life, daughter of a doctor, never lifted a finger in her life, and finally one day they will wake up as an intern and their outlook on life goes to sh*$.
Useless whining

 

[Dire Straits]

Touchdown lexrageorge!! Very well said. In the future though bare in mind that ELysium is one of those "daughters of a Doctor" who thought it would be the only way and she would get so much respect from the nurses and her life would be stars and blue skies and.... then she wakes up one morning and realizes "oh wow I did this for the prestige, not the job!" and realized she is an idiot.
A lot of disgruntled residents or med students like Elysium were those once-starry-eyed pre-meds.. You can always tell when someone has been a prissy little bi*#& their whole life, daughter of a doctor, never lifted a finger in her life, and finally one day they will wake up as an intern and their outlook on life goes to sh*$.
Useless whining

wow, nice personal attack on elysium full of namecalling.

 

[Pooh & Annie]

There are at least 5 females in my 4th year med school class whose fathers are doctors (mostly surgeons). With the exception of one, they are all very sweet, reasonable, nice people. None of them seem the least bit leery that they might have chosen the wrong career due to the influence of their parents.

 

[novacek88]

Good point. However, Medicare reimbursments are affecting everyone-- whether they are in McCook, Nebraska, New York City or Charleston, WV.
I know a physician in a mid-sized Houston suberb who no longer accepts medicare or Optimum choice HMO's for payment! He is doing quite well I might add.

PoorMD

Medicare reimbursements are one thing; fear of lawsuits and patient populations are something entirely different. This is why geography can determine if a physician loves or hates his job. The legal atmosphere in Florida favors attorney malpractice and it's hunting season on doctors there. This is why if you ever read an disgruntled physician article, it's usually about a doctor in Florida or Pennsylvania. Lawyers in those states are vultures. Whereas Texas and California have tort reform measures. This is why there is huge discrepancy in malpractice premiums depending on where you live. And it can be huge; we are talking a difference of 50K or more.

Patient populations vary with different parts of the country. If you live in an area with a lot of patients that have private insurance, you will earn more money than if you live in an area that is strictly medicaid, DHS, 10-care etc. And finally, let's not forget competition. If you live in an area that is saturated with physicians, the demand for your services won't be as great as if you practice where there is less competition.

 

[novacek88]

JKDMed, just curious, What did you do In HVAC ? I work at an HVAC contractor. Also, maybe some job markets for computers, science, lawyers are sucking, but others are booming (manufacturing, construction, nursing) Fields where everyone thinks they can make money turn you into a dime-a-dozen employee. But if you have truly specialized skills in a niche field you can have a pretty secure living. I dont know anyone in engineering who has been laid off, but they're all in construction. They're not offshoring those jobs.

Nearly the entire manufacturing industry has been outsourced to foreign countries. And what sort of opportunities are you speaking of? Unless, you are talking about the day laborer who works at the plant, it's going to difficult to set up your own manufacturing plant or climb the ladder in a manufacting company. Whether it's a construction or manufacturing company, the job is still subject to the pitfalls associated with any company related jobs like excess travel, glass ceilings, relocation, demotion or being fired.

I have a close friend in construction in Las Vegas. He is an engineer. He earns about 60K per year and he won't earn much more than that the rest of his life unless he is fortunate and gets moved to an executive level in which he is administrative as opposed to technical.

You're right, there are specialized niche fields that offer job security. A perfect example of this would be actuarial services. Actuaries are in demand and their skill set is a very specialized niche. However, Actuaries earn usually no more than 80K per year and may top out in the low 100's. Actuaries have to take special classes and become certified to perform this function so it's not a given. Nursing, Hairstylists, and Sanitation Workers are examples of positions with relative job security but not necessarily a high income.

Medicine and other healthcare jobs like dentistry, and pharmacy are rare in that they offer job security and a high income.

 

[Ross434]

Nearly the entire manufacturing industry has been outsourced to foreign countries. And what sort of opportunities are you speaking of? Unless, you are talking about the day laborer who works at the plant, it's going to difficult to set up your own manufacturing plant or climb the ladder in a manufacting company. Whether it's a construction or manufacturing company, the job is still subject to the pitfalls associated with any company related jobs like excess travel, glass ceilings, relocation, demotion or being fired.

I have a close friend in construction in Las Vegas. He is an engineer. He earns about 60K per year and he won't earn much more than that the rest of his life unless he is fortunate and gets moved to an executive level in which he is administrative as opposed to technical.

You're right, there are specialized niche fields that offer job security. A perfect example of this would be actuarial services. Actuaries are in demand and their skill set is a very specialized niche. However, Actuaries earn usually no more than 80K per year and may top out in the low 100's. Actuaries have to take special classes and become certified to perform this function so it's not a given. Nursing, Hairstylists, and Sanitation Workers are examples of positions with relative job security but not necessarily a high income.

Medicine and other healthcare jobs like dentistry, and pharmacy are rare in that they offer job security and a high income.

I dont know about you, but at my company, day laborers get paid $30-35/hour, and I know a lot of mechanics and skilled tool workers making 80k+/year (putting them in the top 5-10% of income earners in the US). At least around here, there is a lot of hiring, and US manufacturing is the strongest it's been in years.

 

[Blake]

wow. the more i read about the pros and cons of a career in medicine and talk to doctors about it the more i find doctors who share these kinds of feelings. are there many doctors left who enjoy waking up every morning and going to their job or do most of them do it because they've trained so long to get there that they feel trapped in their career?

Funny, it's quite the contrary for me. The more I spend time with medical students, residents and attendings, the more positive I become about medicine. Those guys love what they're doing, even though there are rough parts to every job. It's really weird to see such negativism about medicine online, but I suppose the negative people are being more vocal. Now you can call me a naive little pre-med or whatever floats your boat, but I don't think medicine is as bad as people make it out to be. At least I've got some great models to follow and it seems like I'm just following their steps. Can't complain there 😉

 

[PoorMD]

I dont know about you, but at my company, day laborers get paid $30-35/hour, and I know a lot of mechanics and skilled tool workers making 80k+/year (putting them in the top 5-10% of income earners in the US). At least around here, there is a lot of hiring, and US manufacturing is the strongest it's been in years.

Yes, operators and technicians can clear $140K/yr at my company also. They work Hell hours to get it, often 2600 hrs/yr. They also endure hot steam in the face, horrible working conditions, covered in benzene spills and turning flange bolts all day. The 600 overtime hours is where they top off the salary (because time and a half is worth like $45/hr for the senior techs).

However, manufacturing is not the strongest it's been. Dow Chemical hires approx. 20 new engineers in the United States each year. As compared to 10 years ago when we hired nearly 100/yr. The cost of labor and fuel is driving us out of the United States, and the outlook is bleak for the next 25 years. The entire U.S. Operations are in a "Run for Cash" mode, which means no capital projects Just produce product. What this means is, engineers are of less value in the United States because no major upgrades or projects are being sought by the business....

What does any of this have to do with "Would you do it over again?" Well, it goes to show that manufacturing and engineering is not such a "Blue skies" alternative to medicine.

 

[gujuDoc]

Yes, operators and technicians can clear $140K/yr at my company also. They work Hell hours to get it, often 2600 hrs/yr. They also endure hot steam in the face, horrible working conditions, covered in benzene spills and turning flange bolts all day. The 600 overtime hours is where they top off the salary (because time and a half is worth like $45/hr for the senior techs).

However, manufacturing is not the strongest it's been. Dow Chemical hires approx. 20 new engineers in the United States each year. As compared to 10 years ago when we hired nearly 100/yr. The cost of labor and fuel is driving us out of the United States, and the outlook is bleak for the next 25 years. The entire U.S. Operations are in a "Run for Cash" mode, which means no capital projects Just produce product. What this means is, engineers are of less value in the United States because no major upgrades or projects are being sought by the business....

What does any of this have to do with "Would you do it over again?" Well, it goes to show that manufacturing and engineering is not such a "Blue skies" alternative to medicine.

While I can't comment on the original topic, having not been in medical school or anything, I can comment on the engineering thing.

My father and brother are both engineers. My brother has a chemical engineering degree and my dad has a civil engineering degree.

I can tell you, that even with being a top engineer, my father has had to change jobs several times, and lost two of his jobs due to lack of work being provided by the company. And only now in his late 50's is he making 100k plus a year, but made no where near that in his middle age. So don't get the idea that engineers have it easy. Job security in engineering is far less then in medicine.

Now on to my brother, coming out of college, he couldn't even get a job in his field cuz every single chemical engineering job required 5-10 years of experience and there were already a limited supply of job openings during that era due to the economy and other reasons at that time.

So not withstanding the original question, assuming that engineering will be an easier way to get money is quite a false notion. Good luck with that one.

 

[Elysium]

Touchdown lexrageorge!! Very well said. In the future though bare in mind that ELysium is one of those "daughters of a Doctor" who thought it would be the only way and she would get so much respect from the nurses and her life would be stars and blue skies and.... then she wakes up one morning and realizes "oh wow I did this for the prestige, not the job!" and realized she is an idiot.
A lot of disgruntled residents or med students like Elysium were those once-starry-eyed pre-meds.. You can always tell when someone has been a prissy little bi*#& their whole life, daughter of a doctor, never lifted a finger in her life, and finally one day they will wake up as an intern and their outlook on life goes to sh*$.
Useless whining

You are a f-ing idiot with a chip on your shoulder. If you're pissed off about children of docs then you're going to be real pissed off in medical school, since there are a crap load of us in med school. Second of all, jerk off, I worked in film production (call time: 4am, end time: 10pm) for 6 years. Part of my job was to pick cigarette butts off the floor. I mopped. I cleaned. I sat outside for 10 hours when it was 15 degrees outside while the crew shot inside. I also worked in medicine as a clinical assistant for 3 years before I started med school. I know you're so AWESOME because you're a chemical engineer. That is so impressive! Everyone in medicine are going to think you're OVER qualified to be a doctor because of your relevant work history! Actually, my boyfriend has an MS in ChemE and worked in the field for several years. You know what he knew about medicine when he got there? Dick! You know what you know about being a resident? Dick! You know what I know about being a resident? Dick! You know why? Because I'm NOT a goddamned resident! I finished my first year of med school and had a modicum of humility in posting in the GENERAL RESIDENCY FORUM in a thread directed towards people who have FINISHED MEDICAL SCHOOL. Get it, genius?

 

[MD'05]

Yes, operators and technicians can clear $140K/yr at my company also. They work Hell hours to get it, often 2600 hrs/yr. They also endure hot steam in the face, horrible working conditions, covered in benzene spills and turning flange bolts all day. The 600 overtime hours is where they top off the salary (because time and a half is worth like $45/hr for the senior techs).

However, manufacturing is not the strongest it's been. Dow Chemical hires approx. 20 new engineers in the United States each year. As compared to 10 years ago when we hired nearly 100/yr. The cost of labor and fuel is driving us out of the United States, and the outlook is bleak for the next 25 years. The entire U.S. Operations are in a "Run for Cash" mode, which means no capital projects Just produce product. What this means is, engineers are of less value in the United States because no major upgrades or projects are being sought by the business....

What does any of this have to do with "Would you do it over again?" Well, it goes to show that manufacturing and engineering is not such a "Blue skies" alternative to medicine.

I am confused by your moniker. Are you now an MD or are you seeking an MD degree because you are losing your job?

 

[PoorMD]

I know you're so AWESOME because you're a chemical engineer. That is so impressive! Everyone in medicine are going to think you're OVER qualified. Dick! [...] Dick! [...] Dick! You know why? Because I'm NOT a goddamned resident! [...] Get it, genius?

There you go bringing your boyfriend back into this...
Between your compliments and your overuse of the word Dick, I get the feeling you are coming onto me. Can we meet first? I don't like to do online dating but since you are so prissy you are likely good looking. But that could be hit or miss, we'll see. Is he not fulfilling your desires? because you sure are grumpy Elysium.

 

[RadOncMan]

It is so sad that the field of medicine today has been reduced to a monopoly of physicians whose only interests lie in 1. financial reward, 2. a manageable lifestyle, 3. avoiding litigation, 4. financial security at the age of 40 so that one can retire early.

Physicians are the biggest hypocrites, veiling their true motives, through the guise of "taking care of people". Why is the AMA limiting the number of trained physicians to pump up demand so that physicians can earn more? Why are the most lucrative specialties, such as Cards, GI, Optho, Derm, the most competitive specialties? Did anyone applying to medical school ever profess that they have a keen fascination with the diagnosis and treatment of bad skin?

If we truly cared about the best possible care for all patients, we would 1. petition the AMA to increase the number of students trained at medical schools 2. spend the extra 15 minutes for each patient so that we can show our love of working with and getting to know people, 3. limit the number of patients we see so that we can attend more consciensciously with our patients and actually perform a complete and thorough physical for once, 4. work fewer hours by voluntarily taking a reduction in pay cut so that fewer mistakes are made by overworked and overstressed physicians, 5. take at least a 50% reduction in our salaries so that affordable health care could be available for everyone.

 

[humuhumu]

.
Physicians are the biggest hypocrites, veiling their true motives, through the guise of "taking care of people". Why is the AMA limiting the number of trained physicians to pump up demand so that physicians can earn more? Why are the most lucrative specialties, such as Cards, GI, Optho, Derm, the most competitive specialties? Did anyone applying to medical school ever profess that they have a keen fascination with the diagnosis and treatment of bad skin?

In your list of highly competitive, lucrative specialties with great lifestyles, you forget to mention radiation oncology, RadOncMan....

 

[gujuDoc]

It is so sad that the field of medicine today has been reduced to a monopoly of physicians whose only interests lie in 1. financial reward, 2. a manageable lifestyle, 3. avoiding litigation, 4. financial security at the age of 40 so that one can retire early.

Physicians are the biggest hypocrites, veiling their true motives, through the guise of "taking care of people". Why is the AMA limiting the number of trained physicians to pump up demand so that physicians can earn more? Why are the most lucrative specialties, such as Cards, GI, Optho, Derm, the most competitive specialties? Did anyone applying to medical school ever profess that they have a keen fascination with the diagnosis and treatment of bad skin?

If we truly cared about the best possible care for all patients, we would 1. petition the AMA to increase the number of students trained at medical schools 2. spend the extra 15 minutes for each patient so that we can show our love of working with and getting to know people, 3. limit the number of patients we see so that we can attend more consciensciously with our patients and actually perform a complete and thorough physical for once, 4. work fewer hours by voluntarily taking a reduction in pay cut so that fewer mistakes are made by overworked and overstressed physicians, 5. take at least a 50% reduction in our salaries so that affordable health care could be available for everyone.

I'm curious. Are you a med student, by any chance? Or a resident?

Because, can you honestly blame people for wanting the 4 above things. It is not solely in the hands of physicians, but pharmaceutical companies and HMOs, PPO's, etc. where our healthcare issues lie. Doctors are more and more being restricted in what they are allowed and not allowed to do, medical education is rising accounting for why they almost need a decent salary to cover all the loan payments they have up their butt, and the distribution of physicians has caused problems in getting more manageable hours, because several areas like rural areas don't have enough doctors, while other places have an over abundance of them on every other street.

And also you say that they are not pushing to train more physicians at a time, well obviously missed the news that many states are trying to up the number of seats and create new med schools. Florida has already created 1 new MD school, in creating FSU COM. UMiami upped its number of seats by creating a satellite campus with FAU, and FIU is possibly getting a med school in 2007. Furthermore, Florida got a new DO school recently as well. I believe, rumors have floated that california has considered getting a new med school as well. In regards to Florida, even the other state schools like USF COM and UF COM have upped their number of seats. However, many of these physicians are not dispersing themselves within the more needed areas such as rural areas, or are leaving the state because of the stupid malpractice laws.

In summary, I think many of the problems lie with the distribution of physicians, severely high costs of med school, horrendous working hours and conditions of residents although that's slightly changed now, problems caused by HMO's/PPOs and Pharmaceutical companies, and horrendous malpractice laws.

So is it the AMA's fault????????? HELL effin NO!!!!!!!!!! They are not the only one's to blame, much less the one's to blame at all for this issue.


One final point, a lot of physicians would love to do what they feel is best for the patient and what not. However, the parties mentioned above, are where many of the problems they face are encountered. Bottom line, don't blame physicians for this issue.

 

[Chris127]

I am currently a pre med major and have been strongly considering med school for quite some time now. None of these posts have really altered my perspective on the whole situation. I do however notice that some of you mention that medicene doesnt have as good as pay as some other careers. My cousin is currently in her last year of residency as an OB/GYN. Shes 29 years old, and has been offered a job at a local hostpital after she gets out. She mentioned they are starting her out at $275,000 annually, which will increase substantially over the years. So my question to everyone here is this, she has her loans nearly paid off, shes 29, single, and within a few months will have a job landing her over a quarter a million a year. To me this is quite impressive, and I dont see what else she could possibly be doing that would solidify her 275gs a year doing something she loves, at her age. But apparantly there are a lot of better paying jobs out there than medicene, acoording to some of the posts here. Comments?

 

[gujuDoc]

I am currently a pre med major and have been strongly considering med school for quite some time now. None of these posts have really altered my perspective on the whole situation. I do however notice that some of you mention that medicene doesnt have as good as pay as some other careers. My cousin is currently in her last year of residency as an OB/GYN. Shes 29 years old, and has been offered a job at a local hostpital after she gets out. She mentioned they are starting her out at $275,000 annually, which will increase substantially over the years. So my question to everyone here is this, she has her loans nearly paid off, shes 29, single, and within a few months will have a job landing her over a quarter a million a year. To me this is quite impressive, and I dont see what else she could possibly be doing that would solidify her 275gs a year doing something she loves, at her age. But apparantly there are a lot of better paying jobs out there than medicene, acoording to some of the posts here. Comments?

But while that is the salary, you don't take into account the malpractice insurance costs, etc. etc.

275,000 gross income does not come out to the same net income once insurance fees and what not are paid for and accounted for.

However...........

The difference between medicine and other jobs is not, in my opinion, a matter of the pay, so much as job security.

Investment bankers, engineers, and lawyers do not have half as much job security as doctors do. The same can be said for other business people, etc.

And that's where the attraction in medicine from the financial standpoint come in. From a purely financial standpoint, however, I'd say that PHARMACY is the way to go. That is, if you can picture yourself pilling bottles for the rest of your life. They start off very very high at places like CVS and walgreens, if you work there while also in pharm school. At some of them, they'll even provide you with a company car and cell phone etc.

 

[Chris127]

But while that is the salary, you don't take into account the malpractice insurance costs, etc. etc.

275,000 gross income does not come out to the same net income once insurance fees and what not are paid for and accounted for.

How much would you expect that all those expenses would cost? (Sorry for the questions, I am naive pre med student attempting to acquire as much knowledge as I can about my future decesions)

 

[curious1]

Chris' cousin is probably able to make $275 after malpractice insurance and other minor expenses are paid for by the hospital (sounds like she is a hospitalist). No one should think that specialists in medicine aren't still very well paid. My uncle is an Anesthesiologist and he recruits new MDAs at $300k+ and personally takes home around $500k. BUT he's in the hospital for all-night call one day per week and takes call from home another day per week. AND he's 57 years old. Do you want to sleep at the hospital one to two days a week when you're 57 years old? AND keep in mind as a new OB/GYN she will probably be forced to take Christmas, New Years, and Thanksgiving call for the first 5 years.

Everybody trumpets job security as one of the major advantages of medicine. I think people over estimate their ability to land jobs where they want. Sometimes, especially in cities (where there are lots of physicians and established groups), jobs are hard to find. Lets say you are a new anesthesiologist and you land a job with a group in California, great... what are your chances to make partner and have full parity in the group? Maybe 30%. Wait, you thought only lawyers have to compete to make partner? No buddy, doctors do also. You can avoid this by working as a hospital employee, BUT then you have many bosses in the administration, and other headaches to deal with. With a medical license, and board certification, you are always employable for some amount per hour. BUT if you are in any industry (business or law) and you are good at what you do, you are employable.

Medicine is not a gold mine. Maybe it's a copper mine but you gotta work hard 24/7 to get that copper out of the ground. AND who knows what will happen in the future, when the population on medicare explodes and the Gov has the power to dramatically reduce medicare fee schedules. most doctors in the country may end up with a 30%-50% pay cut or worse! even $275k isn't what it used to be.. union contractors with over-time, realtors in busy areas, moderately successful financial workers, specialist nurses... you would be surprised at how many people pull in a couple hundred thousand per year these days and it definitely doesn't go as far as it used to.

 

[gujuDoc]

Chris' cousin is probably able to make $275 after malpractice insurance and other minor expenses are paid for by the hospital (sounds like she is a hospitalist). No one should think that specialists in medicine aren't still very well paid. My uncle is an Anesthesiologist and he recruits new MDAs at $300k+ and personally takes home around $500k. BUT he's in the hospital for all-night call one day per week and takes call from home another day per week. AND he's 57 years old. Do you want to sleep at the hospital one to two days a week when you're 57 years old? AND keep in mind as a new OB/GYN she will probably be forced to take Christmas, New Years, and Thanksgiving call for the first 5 years.

Everybody trumpets job security as one of the major advantages of medicine. I think people over estimate their ability to land jobs where they want. Sometimes, especially in cities (where there are lots of physicians and established groups), jobs are hard to find. Lets say you are a new anesthesiologist and you land a job with a group in California, great... what are your chances to make partner and have full parity in the group? Maybe 30%. Wait, you thought only lawyers have to compete to make partner? No buddy, doctors do also. You can avoid this by working as a hospital employee, BUT then you have many bosses in the administration, and other headaches to deal with. With a medical license, and board certification, you are always employable for some amount per hour. BUT if you are in any industry (business or law) and you are good at what you do, you are employable.

Medicine is not a gold mine. Maybe it's a copper mine but you gotta work hard 24/7 to get that copper out of the ground. AND who knows what will happen in the future, when the population on medicare explodes and the Gov has the power to dramatically reduce medicare fee schedules. most doctors in the country may end up with a 30%-50% pay cut or worse! even $275k isn't what it used to be.. union contractors with over-time, realtors in busy areas, moderately successful financial workers, specialist nurses... you would be surprised at how many people pull in a couple hundred thousand per year these days and it definitely doesn't go as far as it used to.

Great assessment.

 

[Dank*Starr]

Did anyone applying to medical school ever profess that they have a keen fascination with the diagnosis and treatment of bad skin?

i did.
but a close second was wearing lead underwear, pulling nails out of coffins, and irradiating people ....

 

[MSc44]

is there anyone that just down right hates the field they have chosen in life (medicine) and regrets everything about it, and had no idea what they were getting them selves into

 

[justcurious09]

Seems like so many people in here actually like doctoring - not for the money, and the bs - but the actual "helping people" and intellectual stimulation schitcks. So why not advise those considering medicine to become a PA?

Experienced PA's are pretty autonomous, don't take call, can switch fields when they want to, don't take on the debt load.

I know, PA's won't make a million bucks a year, but $75-80 (www.salary.com) doing what you love isn't too bad.

Does anyone wish they'd become a PA?

 

[PTOSIS]

where i am doing my surg rotation, there are tons of PA's. they are good, but they spend the whole day trying to answer questions with authority but being questioned b/c they are not a doctor. finally, i believe that each pt deserves a residency trained grad, that;s what i would want if my loved one was in the hospital. so even though i am totally jealous that my friends on the rotations w/me will be making 80K next year, i think in the long haul it will be worth it. i think that med school should be shortened to 2 years + residency.

 

[sacrament]

Seems like so many people in here actually like doctoring - not for the money, and the bs - but the actual "helping people" and intellectual stimulation schitcks. So why not advise those considering medicine to become a PA?

Experienced PA's are pretty autonomous, don't take call, can switch fields when they want to, don't take on the debt load.

I know, PA's won't make a million bucks a year, but $75-80 (www.salary.com) doing what you love isn't too bad.

Does anyone wish they'd become a PA?

I know this is a controversial statement, but I think that if you're interested in doing primary care and you're in this gig purely for "helping people" then there is no reason to go through medical school and residency when you could go to PA school and get an early jump on things. The vast majority of time you'd spend going the MD route would be time wasted learning a bunch of crap you'll never use.

i believe that each pt deserves a residency trained grad, that;s what i would want if my loved one was in the hospital

So far as critical illness and surgery goes, I'm absolutely with you. PAs play an important role in hospital medicine and in the treatment of patients with complicated morbidities, but should not be the primary caretaker.
But family medicine is a different story, in my book.

 

[PTOSIS]

but sac, u know what happens to PA's once they hit rotations? same thing as med students, they don't want to do primary care. they want ortho, GS, EM. take ortho for example, a huge field for pa's. do u have any idea how many med students would die to do ortho but can't due to the limit on residency spots? so, the ortho docs get rich by hiring pa's while the med students, who chose the long road, can't get in.

 

[billydoc]

Hey guys!
This is by far the most thought provoking thread I've bumped into.
I know that this is a forum for those who have already done what I am about to get myself into. But I was really surprised how many ppl answered "No" to the original question. . I see that lots of ppl are switching fields, and entering from business, law, hi tech etc. My hat is off to you guys, and I really mean it. But my dilemma is that I am already in the healthcare. Without posting my resume and CV, just briefly... I have my RN for 15 yrs workedin all kinds of settings including ER,critical care and paper pushing (administration). Also have my M.S in Acupuncture and Oriental medicine. All of the sudden last year I got into my had that I'm underachieved, and that nothing less than MD will do for me anymore. So applied to some Carib schools, all accepted me, and off I went to Ross University. Never tried to take MCAT, and possibly going D.O route. So about a month and a half into the semester it really caught up with me. I left my wife and my then 6 y.o dtr home. And being away from them, stress from the school itself,being in the hellhole in the middle of nowhere, shoving 6 figure income, and taking myself really out of the equation...all these thoughts did a real number on me.On the top of it all I have type 2 diabetes, which got a lot worse over there. I had to withdraw, and came back really sick,more so emotionally.
I know it's beginning to look like a bad soap opera, but I wanted to get some advice from those of you in the know. Is it really worth may be trying to get into the D.O school(I'm too old for U.S allopathic), if all I wanted to do is to practice preventive and holistic type of medicine?Most doctors I know, like in primary care, and FM and PMR (those are the only fields I considered) are not really happy. There are multiple factors...for them it's mostly money, for me it was the status, and the prestige of being called a"doctor" I admit it.
I realize that family nurse practitioner, which will take me about 2 years part-time,without giving up income, and most importantly my family, will get me probably the same as far as practicing. But the thought of never achieving MD or DO is very daunting. I don't do very well with "what if s." If you read my post to the end...I can't thank you enough, but I really don't know what to do anymore 🙁 . Just what some of you would have done in this situation?
Thanks all very much

 

[gujuDoc]

Hey guys!
This is by far the most thought provoking thread I've bumped into.
I know that this is a forum for those who have already done what I am about to get myself into. But I was really surprised how many ppl answered "No" to the original question. . I see that lots of ppl are switching fields, and entering from business, law, hi tech etc. My hat is off to you guys, and I really mean it. But my dilemma is that I am already in the healthcare. Without posting my resume and CV, just briefly... I have my RN for 15 yrs workedin all kinds of settings including ER,critical care and paper pushing (administration). Also have my M.S in Acupuncture and Oriental medicine. All of the sudden last year I got into my had that I'm underachieved, and that nothing less than MD will do for me anymore. So applied to some Carib schools, all accepted me, and off I went to Ross University. Never tried to take MCAT, and possibly going D.O route. So about a month and a half into the semester it really caught up with me. I left my wife and my then 6 y.o dtr home. And being away from them, stress from the school itself,being in the hellhole in the middle of nowhere, shoving 6 figure income, and taking myself really out of the equation...all these thoughts did a real number on me.On the top of it all I have type 2 diabetes, which got a lot worse over there. I had to withdraw, and came back really sick,more so emotionally.
I know it's beginning to look like a bad soap opera, but I wanted to get some advice from those of you in the know. Is it really worth may be trying to get into the D.O school(I'm too old for U.S allopathic), if all I wanted to do is to practice preventive and holistic type of medicine?Most doctors I know, like in primary care, and FM and PMR (those are the only fields I considered) are not really happy. There are multiple factors...for them it's mostly money, for me it was the status, and the prestige of being called a"doctor" I admit it.
I realize that family nurse practitioner, which will take me about 2 years part-time,without giving up income, and most importantly my family, will get me probably the same as far as practicing. But the thought of never achieving MD or DO is very daunting. I don't do very well with "what if s." If you read my post to the end...I can't thank you enough, but I really don't know what to do anymore 🙁 . Just what some of you would have done in this situation?
Thanks all very much

There is no age limit on getting into an MD school. I've heard of people as old as 49 getting into USF COM in past years. This year, a 39 year old got into the med school at USF.

So you never know.

 

[humuhumu]

Hey guys!
This is by far the most thought provoking thread I've bumped into.
I know that this is a forum for those who have already done what I am about to get myself into. But I was really surprised how many ppl answered "No" to the original question. . I see that lots of ppl are switching fields, and entering from business, law, hi tech etc. My hat is off to you guys, and I really mean it. But my dilemma is that I am already in the healthcare. Without posting my resume and CV, just briefly... I have my RN for 15 yrs workedin all kinds of settings including ER,critical care and paper pushing (administration). Also have my M.S in Acupuncture and Oriental medicine. All of the sudden last year I got into my had that I'm underachieved, and that nothing less than MD will do for me anymore. So applied to some Carib schools, all accepted me, and off I went to Ross University. Never tried to take MCAT, and possibly going D.O route. So about a month and a half into the semester it really caught up with me. I left my wife and my then 6 y.o dtr home. And being away from them, stress from the school itself,being in the hellhole in the middle of nowhere, shoving 6 figure income, and taking myself really out of the equation...all these thoughts did a real number on me.On the top of it all I have type 2 diabetes, which got a lot worse over there. I had to withdraw, and came back really sick,more so emotionally.
I know it's beginning to look like a bad soap opera, but I wanted to get some advice from those of you in the know. Is it really worth may be trying to get into the D.O school(I'm too old for U.S allopathic), if all I wanted to do is to practice preventive and holistic type of medicine?Most doctors I know, like in primary care, and FM and PMR (those are the only fields I considered) are not really happy. There are multiple factors...for them it's mostly money, for me it was the status, and the prestige of being called a"doctor" I admit it.
I realize that family nurse practitioner, which will take me about 2 years part-time,without giving up income, and most importantly my family, will get me probably the same as far as practicing. But the thought of never achieving MD or DO is very daunting. I don't do very well with "what if s." If you read my post to the end...I can't thank you enough, but I really don't know what to do anymore 🙁 . Just what some of you would have done in this situation?
Thanks all very much

Given the choices you've made so far, I think going the NP route is more realistic. However, if you really want to go for an MD, go for it. Age is no excuse -- go check out the nontrad forum. But bring your family along this time. Set up an excellent support system for them. Be prepared for a very long road -- postbac program, MCAT, 4 yrs med school with exam after exam after exam, and 3 yrs residency. And be prepared to go into enormous debt, which you should be able to pay off eventually. Is it all worth it? Only you know the answer.

 

[MD'05]

Hey guys!
This is by far the most thought provoking thread I've bumped into.
I know that this is a forum for those who have already done what I am about to get myself into. But I was really surprised how many ppl answered "No" to the original question. . I see that lots of ppl are switching fields, and entering from business, law, hi tech etc. My hat is off to you guys, and I really mean it. But my dilemma is that I am already in the healthcare. Without posting my resume and CV, just briefly... I have my RN for 15 yrs workedin all kinds of settings including ER,critical care and paper pushing (administration). Also have my M.S in Acupuncture and Oriental medicine. All of the sudden last year I got into my had that I'm underachieved, and that nothing less than MD will do for me anymore. So applied to some Carib schools, all accepted me, and off I went to Ross University. Never tried to take MCAT, and possibly going D.O route. So about a month and a half into the semester it really caught up with me. I left my wife and my then 6 y.o dtr home. And being away from them, stress from the school itself,being in the hellhole in the middle of nowhere, shoving 6 figure income, and taking myself really out of the equation...all these thoughts did a real number on me.On the top of it all I have type 2 diabetes, which got a lot worse over there. I had to withdraw, and came back really sick,more so emotionally.
I know it's beginning to look like a bad soap opera, but I wanted to get some advice from those of you in the know. Is it really worth may be trying to get into the D.O school(I'm too old for U.S allopathic), if all I wanted to do is to practice preventive and holistic type of medicine?Most doctors I know, like in primary care, and FM and PMR (those are the only fields I considered) are not really happy. There are multiple factors...for them it's mostly money, for me it was the status, and the prestige of being called a"doctor" I admit it.
I realize that family nurse practitioner, which will take me about 2 years part-time,without giving up income, and most importantly my family, will get me probably the same as far as practicing. But the thought of never achieving MD or DO is very daunting. I don't do very well with "what if s." If you read my post to the end...I can't thank you enough, but I really don't know what to do anymore 🙁 . Just what some of you would have done in this situation?
Thanks all very much

How did you get into med school without taking the MCAT?

Back to your original question: become an advanced nurse practitioner. You can function independently and you won't destroy your health and family. Being an MD is no big deal. Once you are an MD there is always another heirarchy to battle so I wouldn't waste the time or money. ANPs will be replacing PCPs in the near future anyway.

 

[Sanman]

hey billydoc,
I had a longer response, but it was erased so here are the cliff notes:
I believe that 150k of debt and seven years w/out retirement and college savings for your kid would damage you too much financially. Second if you like preventative med, you won't make much since nowadays everything is prcedure based. I suggest the NP or maybe an MPH. MD '05 is right. There will always be another hoop to go through if you choose. Which will you regret more, not being a doc or not spending more time w/ your wife and kid? Personally I don't think it is worth the sacriface unless you are younger and more importantly if you have fewer obligations. But, What do I know.

 

[billydoc]

How did you get into med school without taking the MCAT?

Back to your original question: become an advanced nurse practitioner. You can function independently and you won't destroy your health and family. Being an MD is no big deal. Once you are an MD there is always another heirarchy to battle so I wouldn't waste the time or money. ANPs will be replacing PCPs in the near future anyway.

Hi MD'05!
Thanks for your repply.
I got into ROSS, SABA and St. Matthew's University (for different start dates).ROSS for May'04 (I applied in early March'04).Incidently May'04 was the last semester before they've introduced mandatory MCAT. SABA and SMU still do not require it, but strongly recomend to those who are fresh out of premed. That was the biggest mistake I made...skip MCAT, don't try U.S first,just take a shortcut. I thought the sooner I'll go there the sooner I'll be done. What a ***** I was...did not review any basic science stuff...Well, I found out real soon that no, I really should not have, at least not without due prep. But I'm really thankful to them in a way, for helping me comming to terms rather quick. I still have my acceptance to two others, but I cannot honestly answer a question "what do I need it for?"
Initially I was pushed into it by many of my patients in private acupuncture practice who would asked me something like "Don't you wanna be a doctor? I would've taken you for my doc instead of a shmock I have now."You know, it was happenning for a while, and finally I decided ...F*** that, they are right. I don't need to be intelectual about it, I just have to have that power.BTW at the same time I was applying for a provider status with many insurances, and networks, and I found out that if I was an MD or DO with like 100-300 hr certification training I'll get reimbursed, but as a licenced acupuncturist with over 4000 hrs training ...they just would not pay.So you can imagine the steam was comming out of ears at that point, and I decided to become a part of the system, rather than trying to fight with it. I thougt it was smart 🙄.Anyway here I am, almost a year and a half later still trying to figure out:need it vs don't need it, going vs not going, status,mirage, pie in the sky vs sanity, normal life, and just being happy and thankful for what G-d gave me already.
Guys thanks a lot for all of your responses. For now I didn't want to loose acceptance to med school yet, and thus defered. But going FNP seems like the only reasonable option for now. Sorry for giong on and on. I really appreciate all of your responces. 🙂

 

[gujuDoc]

Hi MD'05!
Thanks for your repply.
I got into ROSS, SABA and St. Matthew's University (for different start dates).ROSS for May'04 (I applied in early March'04).Incidently May'04 was the last semester before they've introduced mandatory MCAT. SABA and SMU still do not require it, but strongly recomend to those who are fresh out of premed. That was the biggest mistake I made...skip MCAT, don't try U.S first,just take a shortcut. I thought the sooner I'll go there the sooner I'll be done. What a ***** I was...did not review any basic science stuff...Well, I found out real soon that no, I really should not have, at least not without due prep. But I'm really thankful to them in a way, for helping me comming to terms rather quick. I still have my acceptance to two others, but I cannot honestly answer a question "what do I need it for?"
Initially I was pushed into it by many of my patients in private acupuncture practice who would asked me something like "Don't you wanna be a doctor? I would've taken you for my doc instead of a shmock I have now."You know, it was happenning for a while, and finally I decided ...F*** that, they are right. I don't need to be intelectual about it, I just have to have that power.BTW at the same time I was applying for a provider status with many insurances, and networks, and I found out that if I was an MD or DO with like 100-300 hr certification training I'll get reimbursed, but as a licenced acupuncturist with over 4000 hrs training ...they just would not pay.So you can imagine the steam was comming out of ears at that point, and I decided to become a part of the system, rather than trying to fight with it. I thougt it was smart 🙄.Anyway here I am, almost a year and a half later still trying to figure out:need it vs don't need it, going vs not going, status,mirage, pie in the sky vs sanity, normal life, and just being happy and thankful for what G-d gave me already.
Guys thanks a lot for all of your responses. For now I didn't want to loose acceptance to med school yet, and thus defered. But going FNP seems like the only reasonable option for now. Sorry for giong on and on. I really appreciate all of your responces. 🙂

One more option...................Physician Assistant School (PA school). These people make 80k+ salaries a year, get to do work very similar to what the doctor does, and only have to do 2 years graduate training. Generally they look for people with former clinical working experience either as a nurse, EMT, PCT, etc. So you'd be able to finish it in 2 years and be out in the working world. I'd recommend it.

 

[justcurious09]

I'd like to know if more folks who "wouldn't do it again" wish they'd gone to PA school instead. Anyone out there?

I'm a 28 y/o MS1, interested in family practice, and PA is looking pretty good to me right now. . . this road just seems so long when you're taking the first step.

 

[billydoc]

One more option...................Physician Assistant School (PA school). These people make 80k+ salaries a year, get to do work very similar to what the doctor does, and only have to do 2 years graduate training. Generally they look for people with former clinical working experience either as a nurse, EMT, PCT, etc. So you'd be able to finish it in 2 years and be out in the working world. I'd recommend it.

GujuDoc Thanks for your response again
PA isn't much of an option for me simply because it makes no economic sense in my particular situation. Nothing against PAs though, but if I went down that road I'd have to start from scratch almost. I've been an RN for 15 yrs, so with all due respect 80G is atainable even part time for me.I also do fee for servise home care visits. It's a lot of crap as far as paper work is conserned, but if you hit enough cases you'll be $150+ range without an office overhead and huge malpractice fees. I recently met one PA who is also an RN, and she is hitting this Fee For Service Home Care thing gooood. She told me there are not opportunities like these in PA work as far as $$$ is concerned.But although home care pays quite well, it's pretty dull, repetetive, and more often than not useless service. In this regard PA probably would be more challenging, and intelectual. I honestly admit that going to medical school was not about the $$$.In fact it's one of the "best" ways to get yourself into a huge debt.For me it was about acquiring the status and the authority (the ego thing).Believe me between an RN, and cash only private acupuncture practice one could live very,very comfortable, and still have a life, and the family. You'll meet ppl in med schools today from just about every walk of life, many like myself had already established careers, and bisinesses. That's the main reason why it is so hard to give it all up, and to get in return a big "?",and the hardest part is I know full well that I'm taking away from my family, while I'm chasing my own ego's tail.I was trying to say to myself "I'm doing it all for them", but then I looked in the mirrow, and asked myself"who are you kidding? 🙄 "
Anyway, thanks all again very much. NP is a right choice simply because I can apitalize on being an RN, have my Dx and Rx authority, and practice independently, or as a partner in the well established medical group...pretty much what I was going to do as family doc 🙂
Take care everyone

 

[gujuDoc]

GujuDoc Thanks for your response again
PA isn't much of an option for me simply because it makes no economic sense in my particular situation. Nothing against PAs though, but if I went down that road I'd have to start from scratch almost. I've been an RN for 15 yrs, so with all due respect 80G is atainable even part time for me.I also do fee for servise home care visits. It's a lot of crap as far as paper work is conserned, but if you hit enough cases you'll be $150+ range without an office overhead and huge malpractice fees. I recently met one PA who is also an RN, and she is hitting this Fee For Service Home Care thing gooood. She told me there are not opportunities like these in PA work as far as $$$ is concerned.But although home care pays quite well, it's pretty dull, repetetive, and more often than not useless service. In this regard PA probably would be more challenging, and intelectual. I honestly admit that going to medical school was not about the $$$.In fact it's one of the "best" ways to get yourself into a huge debt.For me it was about acquiring the status and the authority (the ego thing).Believe me between an RN, and cash only private acupuncture practice one could live very,very comfortable, and still have a life, and the family. You'll meet ppl in med schools today from just about every walk of life, many like myself had already established careers, and bisinesses. That's the main reason why it is so hard to give it all up, and to get in return a big "?",and the hardest part is I know full well that I'm taking away from my family, while I'm chasing my own ego's tail.I was trying to say to myself "I'm doing it all for them", but then I looked in the mirrow, and asked myself"who are you kidding? 🙄 "
Anyway, thanks all again very much. NP is a right choice simply because I can apitalize on being an RN, have my Dx and Rx authority, and practice independently, or as a partner in the well established medical group...pretty much what I was going to do as family doc 🙂
Take care everyone

Ah, that makes more sense. I have a friend who is going that route, finishing her RN and then starting an agency to recruit nurses as well as eventually thinking about getting an ARNP. She's actually quite a bit older.....mid 30's. But still going strong. Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[docemesis]

All the careers you mentioned require talent, tact, creativity, and, a sharp sense for societal norms, values, and nuances.
Good luck.

I have none of the above.

Thats what happened to me. I have a masters degree and an MBA. I failed at my previous job though I worked 18 hours a day. Only to be let go for someone younger and cheaper and overseas.

But in medicine, slow and steady gets me to the finish line. Better to be a poor doctor in the wilderness than homeless in the big city.

Speaking of younger, medicine is one of the few professions where the number of grey hairs increase your marketability.

 

[Buck Strong]

Although I wasn't crazy about MS1 and MS2, I've been loving the past 2 years of medical school. I'd definitely do it again in a heartbeat. I enjoyed almost every one of my clinical rotations...even psych and ob-gyn. Currently, I'm doing electives, and I wake up every morning looking forward to what I will be doing that day. In a few months, hopefully I'll match into a specialty that I think offers everything I want from medicine...and will eventually pay me much more than is fair for doing a job I enjoy. Right now, I find that no matter how routine my day is, I always learn atleast 2 or 3 new things...not always about medicine, but nonetheless important. Currently, even as an MS4, I see how much the patients appreciate being seen in clinic, or receiving the operations we do for them. Although things might be a little more routine and less exciting for me 20 years from now, I'll always have the satisfaction of truely being able to help another person on a daily basis. It doesn't get any better than that. I hope that everyone completing their last year of medical school finds their own niche in medicine that makes 4 years of ups and downs in medical school more than worth it. Good luck to all the aspiring physicians.

 

[Jalby]

Well, my first two years I would say absolutely. Third year has beat that out of me, even thought I did enjoy most of it.

 

[ktsue]

This is in response to the original question of whether a person would go through med school over again or choose something else.
I'm a 2nd year at a DO school. I would probably so med school over again, but would I go to a DO school? No. I would have waited until I got into an MD school instead of taking a seat at the first school that expected me because I was so anxious to get in and get the ball rolling on my life, even though I had a good job allready. Why? I'm not too crazy about the whole OMT (manipulation, back cracking, etc.) thing. In fact I hate it and every time I go to OMT lab I map out my pathology career.
I would also go to a cheaper school. Being $150,000 in debt after graduation in nothing. I'll be breaking almost $250,000 before interest, closer to $400,000 after. And I still hear that DOs are paid less than MDs. Joy.
However, I love my school's genesis program, my pathology instructor, the friends I've made, and the challenge of knowing so many things.
All in all, I wish I had waited till I got my prime choice. 😳

 

[Buck Strong]

And I still hear that DOs are paid less than MDs. Joy.

I'm pretty sure that this is a rumor. While it is true that there are fewer DO's in higher paying specialties, such as plastics, ortho, neurosurgery, ent, ophtho, derm, etc., MD's and DO's in the same field make the same amount of money. Example, a DO pediatrician makes the same as an MD pediatrician. Regardless, I doubt that any of us will be starving, or on the streets looking for a handout. The loans will eventually get paid off, and we'll all be able to afford our upper-middle class home in the suburbs with the white picket fence and whatnot. Not too shabby if you ask me.

 

[me454555]

I don't know what hospital you go to but every fat, smelly, or obnoxious pt seems to have the same job "unemployed" might just be a coincidence

 

[gujuDoc]

Be careful of what you say. Iv'e had fat and obnoxious preceptors before. I've met brilliant smelly researchers that spend so much time in their labs that they stop caring about themselves. I remember one that didn't care how he looked. Yet, he is a great PI.

Since when does physical appearance, smell and attitude have anything to do with intelligence.

Are you even in med school yet? You sound really naive.

Although my PI is not obnoxious, fat, or smelly, he is not your typical dress up in fancy shirt and tie, kinda person either. I actually like the fact that he comes in the lab with the most casual hawaiian shirt and khakis and sandals. Knowing that you don't have to dress up all the time, makes it for a more casual and enjoyable environment in the lab.

 

[QuiteNice]

One of the main reasons I had considered med school was because I thought it would be intellectually stimulating, varied and exciting work, but after reading some of the posts here, it seems that intellectual satisfying is the last thing medicine is.
Is it really an uncreative, routine job? even compared with other high paying jobs like law and finance accountacy etc.
im mainly interested in the science behind medicine, maybe academia would suit me better but both my parents dobiomedical research and have warned me against it (low pay, no one cares what you do etc).
I thought medicine would be a better choice as your work has more immediate impact and you can still do clinical research and pursue you're interests in your area of specialism.
can anyone point out if I am being totally ignorant and illusioned about a career in med?

 

[justcurious09]

One of the main reasons I had considered med school was because I thought it would be intellectually stimulating, varied and exciting work, but after reading some of the posts here, it seems that intellectual satisfying is the last thing medicine is.
Is it really an uncreative, routine job? even compared with other high paying jobs like law and finance accountacy etc.
im mainly interested in the science behind medicine, maybe academia would suit me better but both my parents dobiomedical research and have warned me against it (low pay, no one cares what you do etc).
I thought medicine would be a better choice as your work has more immediate impact and you can still do clinical research and pursue you're interests in your area of specialism.
can anyone point out if I am being totally ignorant and illusioned about a career in med?

Go for an MD/PhD, that way you get the both of best worlds. And no loans.

 

[flindophile]

................

 

[fourthyear]

In med school, yes, there is a lot of memorization involved - but this is just to master the basics. As a clinician there are a LOT of intellectual challenges in most fields when you are presented with a complex patient and you have to match up all their symptoms and problems with that stuff you learned in med school and decide how to diagnose and treat it all.

Especially in surgery and especially in the most critically ill patients this is true - fast thinking and fast acting can really save lives and there are so many situations I've seen already in the past few years of residency where the patient just doesn't quite fit anything you've seen in a textbook...so you must apply the textbook knowlege you do have with your past experience of what worked in similar situations you've seen before and start working with that, constantly adjusting the plan and approach until the patient responds to the treatment. The above poster is just straight up wrong to say that being a GOOD clinician is not intellectually challenging. I come home every day thinking I need to read more about something I saw that day so I can understand it better next time I see it.

I'm one of those "miserable" mid-level surgery residents previous posters have referred to. Yes, I sometimes wish I had more free time, but I honestly absolutely completely and totally love my job. I come home so many post-call days tired as a dog, but thinking what an amazing night I had learning so much about patient care, improving my procedural skills, dealing with some complex situation I hadn't yet seen before, and really making a difference in a patients life. Surgery and most of the patient care that comes with it is really fun to me...and not many people (except maybe professional athletes, rock stars, ect.) can really say their jobs are fun, so I feel pretty lucky in this. I do have a life outside of work too, and I like to come home to it in a good mood rather than bummed out b/c I'm at a boring job that doesn't challenge me. Yes, I would do it over again.

 

[me454555]

Be careful of what you say. Iv'e had fat and obnoxious preceptors before. I've met brilliant smelly researchers that spend so much time in their labs that they stop caring about themselves. I remember one that didn't care how he looked. Yet, he is a great PI.

Since when does physical appearance, smell and attitude have anything to do with intelligence.

Are you even in med school yet? You sound really naive.

Actually I'm a 3rd year and in the clincs. I see these people everyday and then check their chart. Under employment stats it never says college prof, researcher, or engineer, it always says "unemployed" meaning these people don't have jobs. Its unfortunate but true, these people are generally large b/c they have zero concept of what exercise and diet means and refuse to listen to physcians trying to council them.

 

[jhstuck]

The cognitive "style" of medicine includes many aspects of science and engineering. Try understanding Radiology w/o physics or Dialysis w/o Chemical Engineering. Medicine is a conglomerate (sp?) of many sciences. It has to be, all these areas have contributed to the science of the human body. If it bothers you that differential equations won't give you the answer to a patient's problem, then you are in the wrong field. Humans can't be simplified to a giant vat of chemicals, or to any predictions of molecular biology, or to any other methodology. If you can fine a way to treat human disease/life as a math equation, well do it, no one else has.

 

[PimplePopperMD]

I'll give my two cents as well...

I'm a third year resident.

My life is really quite demanding. I work anywhere from 60 to 80 hours per week. I generally will have four 24-hour periods per month away from the hospital (oftentimes a weekend day, but sometimes a weekday). I generally have to say at the hospital late every fourth evening (and sometimes overnight). My wife is saddled with many of the household responsibilities, as I really just don't have time to pick up the cleaning, change the oil, do the laundry, cook, etc.

I come home from work quite tired, most days. I do my banking online so I can pay bills from the hospital during some downtime. My email goes unchecked for days. Calls don't get returned for days. I let my family/friends know that if they need to talk to me that day, they need to state this in their message. I am less involved, even over the phone, with my brothers, my sister and her children, and my parents, than I ever have been.

Holidays and birthdays aren't always celebrated on the correct day. Christmas last year was celebrated the 24th. My birthday was celebrated three days later. I spent Valentine's day and night at the hospital. I spent Christmas day and evening and the 26th morning at the hospital.

Training is very difficult. The stakes are higher than they ever have been in one's work life, almost regardless of prior work experience. What other job demands you to save a life of a patient on the other side of the hospital, whose name you don't even know, at 3am? The training for medicine is all encompassing for a reason; the stakes are high.

There are incredible highs and lows. There was a code that I ran (note that generally as senior residents, we are the highest-levels on the floor of the hospital, without physicians who have completed their training) that lasted a LONG time (almost 20 minutes), I was just about to pronounce the patient dead, and the patient regained a pulse. Although I thought we had done a disservice to the patient initially, four days later I visited the patient and she was talking, and coherent (no anoxic brain injury). Perhaps if I weren't there, the patient wouldn't have been intubated (nobody else there was able to), and perhaps the outcome would have been different.

When there is a bad outcome, you take this home as well. We surround ourselves with illness, death, and this can really wreak havoc with one's psyche.

I write all this to encourage those of you who are pre-med. I absolutely would do this again, because in general I really love my job. I cannot imagine another job which would allow me to use my head, to use my hands (to do various procedures), and to use my demeanor (I absolutely believe that a good physician needs to be able to interact with patients in a very unique, open manner; with humor, with warmth, with respect). When the day isn't going so well, I can switch gears; I can focus my energies on teaching the medical students various physical exam skills, I can teach the interns about a disease a patient on service has, or I can take a LONG lunch.

Many people go into the field for the wrong reasons, and those people know who they are when they are interns (because they dread waking up in the morning!) That is why I would never blankly encourage someone to do this; it is SO all-encompassing. You lose friends, hobbies, etc... and even though I felt I was relatively informed when I was a premed in knowing what choice I was making, I don't think it's possible to fully appreciate the level of sacrifice until you're actually making it.

But if you have the interest, the dedication, and most of all the humanity, then this could be a great ride. Patients let you into their most private, darkest hour, and have faith that you can help. And even when your medicine fails, your humanity shouldn't.

Good luck to all of you!