If you really wanted to go to an Ivy

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Samiamm

Samiamm

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(Realistically here)

I'm not saying that I do, I'm just curious as to what an ivy cookie cutter app would be, and what would get you accepted? What makes Ivies attracted to students?

Breastfeed kids in Africa?
Deliver babies in the Himalayas?
 
have your parents donate enough money to name a building after you.
 
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Samiamm said:
(Realistically here)

I'm not saying that I do, I'm just curious as to what an ivy cookie cutter app would be, and what would get you accepted? What makes Ivies attracted to students?

Breastfeed kids in Africa?
Deliver babies in the Himalayas?
Click to expand...

I heard someone put it this way that really made sense. For example, a regular cookie cutter app to any US MD school would volunteer at a local community service project. A top school cookie cutter app would found/start a local community service project. A regular cookie cutter app to any school would have a semester worth of research that was either for a class or just a few hours. A top school cookie cutter app would have done a year or more of research and presented posters at a conference. A regular cookie cutter app would go to honduras for 2 weeks with medical brigades and play doctor. A top school app would go to honduras for the summer/semester or possibly multiple times in a year or several times over 3-4 years. Get my drift?
 
Samiamm said:
(Realistically here)

I'm not saying that I do, I'm just curious as to what an ivy cookie cutter app would be, and what would get you accepted? What makes Ivies attracted to students?

Breastfeed kids in Africa?
Deliver babies in the Himalayas?
Click to expand...

I interviewed at HMS, Hopkins, Yale, Wash U etc. The unifying theme connecting the people at those interviews, in contrast to other institutions, was they by and large had produced something in undergrad or demonstrated skill sets that set them apart from their peers. The top schools are no different than any other MD program. They are looking for the same things. What IS different is that they have 1) a different applicant pool and 2) a name that makes people want to go to their school over others. Students that are attractive at top schools are attractive at most 'lower' schools.

In short: Production, production, production + demonstration of positive qualities. That is what gets you noticed.
 
mimelim said:
I interviewed at HMS, Hopkins, Yale, Wash U etc. The unifying theme connecting the people at those interviews, in contrast to other institutions, was they by and large had produced something in undergrad or demonstrated skill sets that set them apart from their peers. The top schools are no different than any other MD program. They are looking for the same things. What IS different is that they have 1) a different applicant pool and 2) a name that makes people want to go to their school over others. Students that are attractive at top schools are attractive at most 'lower' schools.

In short: Production, production, production + demonstration of positive qualities. That is what gets you noticed.
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So what were your productions and positive qualities if you don't mind me asking sir 😀
 
Eileron said:
Simplest? Get a 42 on the MCAT and have a high GPA. You'll very likely get into one of the Ivies if you have that and the cookie-cutter qualities needed at all schools (shadowing experience, a couple of ECs, a positive set of letters). Apply early, and do well in your interview.

Now, you won't get your pick of Ivy, but it's likely that one of the lot will give you an acceptance.

Edit: a 42 isn't easy. I guess this is the path requiring the least work over 4 years. Simplest, maybe?
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Disagree. If anything I think that it is easier to get great EC's than a 42 MCAT, but more so I wouldn't bet on someone with mediocre EC's and just good stats to get into one of the top schools, with the possible exception of one.
 
Ivys want future "health care leaders", especially in research. To oversimplify, they want to be connected to nobel prizes, so they want students that have the best shot at winning one. Demonstrate that you will be a future "health care leader" if you want a shot.
 
mmmcdowe said:
Disagree. If anything I think that it is easier to get great EC's than a 42 MCAT, but more so I wouldn't bet on someone with mediocre EC's and just good stats to get into one of the top schools, with the possible exception of one.
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How would you explain all the applicants that have average ECs but stellar stats getting interviews at upper tiers but nothing mid/low?

I think stats definitely do come into play at the higher up schools with an emphasis on a unique characteristic, and lower schools care more about your ECs as a whole. Of course, being a 'cookie cutter' is basically expected anywhere.
 
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mmmcdowe said:
Disagree. If anything I think that it is easier to get great EC's than a 42 MCAT, but more so I wouldn't bet on someone with mediocre EC's and just good stats to get into one of the top schools, with the possible exception of one.
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Which one? 😛
 
I would say that if a candidate has incredibly high stats (38+ MCAT, 3.9+ GPA) and jumped through all the typical hoops, they will get interviews at Ivy League schools. If they're great at interviews, they'll get in.
 
I interviewed at 1 Ivy and probably 80-90% of my fellow interviewees were from the Ivies or Hopkins, so that seems to matter
 
It's difficult for any of us to really know this. Most of the students I know demonstrated a vision or a passion in college, but also displayed a high level of academic excellence. Academics can only excite a school so much, there are tons of 4.0's or 39+ MCATs to choose from. However, applicants that have a passion, a vision, and a demonstrated potential to act on that vision and impact the world around them are much more unusual and just the kind of future leader a top school wants. That passion could be service to others, scientific exploration, health advocacy, or even something seemingly unrelated to medicine (music, art, literacy, etc). If an applicant can show drive and dedication in one venue, schools are hoping those same skills will translate to other endeavors as well.
 
Samiamm said:
So what were your productions and positive qualities if you don't mind me asking sir 😀
Click to expand...

Check out the "Ask a neurosurgeon anything" thread that he started. It will answer all your questions.

Also, doesn't hurt to be a rocket scientist, lol.
 
Someone said all the big-name schools are looking for future leaders of medicine. I don't see why that wouldn't be the case. They're looking for the people who will run hospitals and group practices, publish papers, write books, become department chairmen, be keynote speakers at conferences. Not some vanilla cookie candidate who wants to make $300K working four days a week in derm or interventional radiology.

It's no different from the undergraduate Ivies looking for people who they see as future leaders in a variety of fields.

For the record, calling the elite medical schools "Ivy" is a vestige from the obsessions of your high school days & insecurities. UCSF, Hopkins, Stanford, NW, Chicago, WUSTL, Baylor, and Duke are not Ivy.
 
solitarius said:
For the record, calling the elite medical schools "Ivy" is a vestige from the obsessions of your high school days & insecurities. UCSF, Hopkins, Stanford, NW, Chicago, WUSTL, Baylor, and Duke are not Ivy.
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This bothers me too lol, especially since the term ivy league itself didn't originate from academics: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivy_League
 
So would most people here choose Columbia, Cornell, Brown, and Dartmouth over the list above?
 
solitarius said:
So would most people here choose Columbia, Cornell, Brown, and Dartmouth over the list above?
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absolutely not lol, at least for me. I'm not sure what the other poster is talking about with those schools being any more numbers driven than the others. Hopkins is probably one of the biggest diversity driven schools. I heard rumors when I was high school that being a biology major would actually hurt you applying to hopkins because they want diversity. How true that is or not is beyond me but something like half of their class consists of non science majors. And Stanford is #4 in the country I thought they were big on diversity as well but maybe I'm wrong. Is dartmouth even top 10? And I'm pretty sure Brown doesn't even make the top 20.
 
OK op I'll let you in on a secret.

Rule 1: be smart
Rule 2: don't be dumb
 
solitarius said:
Someone said all the big-name schools are looking for future leaders of medicine. I don't see why that wouldn't be the case. They're looking for the people who will run hospitals and group practices, publish papers, write books, become department chairmen, be keynote speakers at conferences. Not some vanilla cookie candidate who wants to make $300K working four days a week in derm or interventional radiology.

It's no different from the undergraduate Ivies looking for people who they see as future leaders in a variety of fields.

For the record, calling the elite medical schools "Ivy" is a vestige from the obsessions of your high school days & insecurities. UCSF, Hopkins, Stanford, NW, Chicago, WUSTL, Baylor, and Duke are not Ivy.
Click to expand...

?? Not really sure what you're ranting about, I was talking about the Ivies only, not any of the schools you listed. Also, like I said, I'm not really interested in going to an Ivy, I was just wondering what it is that attracts them to the students they accept.

Also, you said "someone said all the big name schools are looking for future leaders, I don't see why that wouldn't be the case"

So i'm not really sure who your argument is against right now, did you have a tough week little guy 🙁
 
To be honest, I'm still in MCAT withdrawal phase.

Again, what's the obsession with "Ivy" medical schools? I can understand the allure we all had for Ivy League colleges when we were in high school.
 
solitarius said:
To be honest, I'm still in MCAT withdrawal phase.

Again, what's the obsession with "Ivy" medical schools? I can understand the allure we all had for Ivy League colleges when we were in high school.
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lol

You're missing the entire point, I'm just curious about WHAT IT IS that attracts the ivies to the students they accept, because, it's an obvious fact that those schools are among the toughest, if not THE toughest, to get into.

I don't have some kind of an awkward obsession for Ivies, I'm just wondering what it is about their matriculants that is seen as "better" in their eyes.
 
I think the best schools are looking for who they think will make the most successful alumni in medicine. The stuff mentioned above.
 
I though Ivy schools take in their own or people from big name schools. I also thought they only pick the foreign kid with the amazing story and the one percent doctor. Though at my school, there's alot of flyiers for Harvard med school's diversity program.
 
Life Sucks said:
I though Ivy schools take in their own or people from big name schools.
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They do, but you could also argue that people from their own school or big name schools are generally awesome as well.. I mean, that's how they got into big name undergrad schools in the first place. They most likely did amazing things in high school, there's now doubt they'll continue to do amazing things in their undergrad.
 
I had an interview at one "ivy"...Penn. Everyone in the room seemed to have done or is doing incredible things. I remember a college athlete, someone who was trying to connect twitter with healthcare awareness, a healthcare consultant, researchers from all types of fields. One student mentioned being intimidated a bit at orientation, hearing things like "yeah i started a clinic but it was kind of small"...and the majority of interviewees were from the likes of Harvard, Yale, Penn, etc.
 
I don't really have the time to write out a full response.

1) Grades and scores matter. Grades and MCAT are a measure of academic prowess. If you aren't a good student, you aren't going to do well in medical school. There is just too much information to learn to pick up people that can't sit down and study/pass tests.

2) There are more people with good grade/mcat combos than there are spots at the top schools. Thus, schools get to pick who they admit.

3) Schools are looking for production and signs that you will be a good physician. This comes across in every aspect of your application that isn't your GPA and your MCAT. Start with a) the classes you took, b) LOR, c) PS, d) your ECs etc.

Being a good student is great for HS, but if you can't translate that into the real world, it isn't worth a hill of beans. What exactly you did in HS and UG content wise is irrelevant for 99% of people because what they did before won't be what they do in the future. What does matter is who are you as a person, what skills do you have and what does what you did in the past portend toward what you can do in the future?
 
mimelim said:
Being a good student is great for HS, but if you can't translate that into the real world, it isn't worth a hill of beans. What exactly you did in HS and UG content wise is irrelevant
Click to expand...

Wait you're telling me my dance history major with theater minor won't help me in real life??

black-guy-gif-star-trek.gif

(Jk. Good post)
 
Chill out bro. Don't worry about starting a clinic or whatever. Just get a 45 on the MCAT.
 
ComradeDoktor said:
I would say that if a candidate has incredibly high stats (38+ MCAT, 3.9+ GPA) and jumped through all the typical hoops, they will get interviews at Ivy League schools. If they're great at interviews, they'll get in.
Click to expand...

I think this is way oversimplified. I interview at several of the Ivies, and thinking that being "great at interviews" translates to an acceptance is silly. It has much more to do with expanding on your app and giving adcoms a chance to see just how "deep" your activities go and why exactly you did the things you did. I wouldn't consider myself a poor interviewer by any means, and yet I wasn't accepted to any of the Ivies. It has much more to do with the app that you're going in with than your interviewing skills. Being an excellent interviewee without the "right" app to talk about won't get you anywhere.
 
NickNaylor said:
I think this is way oversimplified. I interview at several of the Ivies, and thinking that being "great at interviews" translates to an acceptance is silly. It has much more to do with expanding on your app and giving adcoms a chance to see just how "deep" your activities go and why exactly you did the things you did. I wouldn't consider myself a poor interviewer by any means, and yet I wasn't accepted to any of the Ivies. It has much more to do with the app that you're going in with than your interviewing skills. Being an excellent interviewee without the "right" app to talk about won't get you anywhere.
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Agreed.

At my interviews they have been far more interested in how I am as a person though. Even with the closed-application interviews, they really seemed more curious as to what defined my personality than how I folded blankets as a volunteer. In fact, rather than talking about experiences I alluded to they really enjoyed picking into my childhood, friends, family, etc. I think the idea here was that they know they like what the applicants have done, but are curious as to what makes them tick.

Obviously, this is school dependent, and I think what you're saying is totally true.
 
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