IIT vs America

[Shredder]

Hi fellow Indians,

This is my first post in this part of SDN. I am a premedical student going through the application process right now, and I feel lately a lack of confidence that it is an effective process of selecting students to admit. I know a little about IIT and the way they select students, and it is strikingly different from the way schools in the United States work. From what I know, admission to IIT is based solely on a single examination, the JEE, I believe. In the US, tests such as the SAT and MCAT are said to be important, but their significance is only a part of the whole package of applicants. However, IIT grads are said to be the best in the world, making even the best US schools such as MIT, CIT, and Stanford look relatively easy. So is the standardized testing method the best method of selection?

What is your opinion of IIT vs American education? If you have any familiarity with US medical school admissions criteria, how do they compare to not only IIT but also Indian medical schools? What about the quality of physicians that US schools produce vs Indian schools? I have broached this topic in other parts of SDN, but with everyone being Americanized and lacking exposure to other standards of admission, they are unable to provide knowledgeable responses. I am really looking forward to hearing straight from the source; thank you for any input on this topic.

I'm starting to wonder if it's time I paid a visit to my homeland. I've been 3 times, but it has been 8 years since the last visit. How are things over there?

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[DrGarfield]

i guess some confusion is going on here. IIT is Indian Institute of Technology- it doles out Engineers- M. Techs. It can not be compared to Medical schools and all that.
First find out whether you wanna be a doctor- if yuo do- you dont have to know a thing about IIT.
IITs in india are sure the top notch institutes with high reputation world wide, so if you wanna get into it, it is an honour to get in to IIT for any scholar.

 

[Shredder]

i guess some confusion is going on here. IIT is Indian Institute of Technology- it doles out Engineers- M. Techs. It can not be compared to Medical schools and all that.
First find out whether you wanna be a doctor- if yuo do- you dont have to know a thing about IIT.
IITs in india are sure the top notch institutes with high reputation world wide, so if you wanna get into it, it is an honour to get in to IIT for any scholar.

i am aware that IIT is for engineers, and i have no uncertainty about pursuing medicine. i have no intention of attending IIT or a similar institution. i was referring to the selection/admissions process that IIT uses and how it compares to admissions in American education. also how do selections for Indian medical schools compare to selections for US medical schools in terms of what is valued, what set of criteria are used.

to point out specifics, American schools tend to value standardized testing scores as half of the admissions battle, if even that much. other factors include "extracurricular activities", such as playing sports or instruments. also medical schools look for volunteer work and "humanitarian" involvement, such as performing menial chores in hospitals, constructing homes for the impoverished, and serving food to the hungry. my suspicion is that India would regard all of these above mentioned criteria as totally bogus. if i am not mistaken, admission for IIT is based solely on the results of a single, extremely difficult examination. you would never see this type of admission in the USA, where the analog would be basing college admissions solely on the SAT, or medical on the MCAT. oftentimes you will see students in elite institutions with marginal test scores in the USA, whereas in IIT you will never see students who performed poorly on the entrance examination.

so to summarize, the question is, am i correct in suspecting that indian (or perhaps all non american) school admissions are more objectively based, and if so, do you think objective or subjective admissions to schools are preferable? what do you think are the repercussions of both methods?

i hope that clears things up. ideally i would travel to india and make observations first hand, but i am unable to do that right now in my life, so i can only learn through second hand accounts of what life outside of america is like. this is a very legitimate point that i am raising about objective vs subjective admissions, which is what it boils down to. american premeds accept the system without questioning it, but i am not like this. my hope was that with you guys not being american premeds, i could hear another perspective on the issue. if nobody is able to offer any insight, well, that is sad, but i suppose that may be the case since thinkers and questioners in the world are few and far between, with most people going along with the tide. others who do question and think "i cant do anything about it" result in something called the status quo.

 

[KNightInBlue]

i am aware that IIT is for engineers, and i have no uncertainty about pursuing medicine. i have no intention of attending IIT or a similar institution. i was referring to the selection/admissions process that IIT uses and how it compares to admissions in American education. also how do selections for Indian medical schools compare to selections for US medical schools in terms of what is valued, what set of criteria are used.

to point out specifics, American schools tend to value standardized testing scores as half of the admissions battle, if even that much. other factors include "extracurricular activities", such as playing sports or instruments. also medical schools look for volunteer work and "humanitarian" involvement, such as performing menial chores in hospitals, constructing homes for the impoverished, and serving food to the hungry. my suspicion is that India would regard all of these above mentioned criteria as totally bogus. if i am not mistaken, admission for IIT is based solely on the results of a single, extremely difficult examination. you would never see this type of admission in the USA, where the analog would be basing college admissions solely on the SAT, or medical on the MCAT. oftentimes you will see students in elite institutions with marginal test scores in the USA, whereas in IIT you will never see students who performed poorly on the entrance examination.

so to summarize, the question is, am i correct in suspecting that indian (or perhaps all non american) school admissions are more objectively based, and if so, do you think objective or subjective admissions to schools are preferable? what do you think are the repercussions of both methods?

i hope that clears things up. ideally i would travel to india and make observations first hand, but i am unable to do that right now in my life, so i can only learn through second hand accounts of what life outside of america is like. this is a very legitimate point that i am raising about objective vs subjective admissions, which is what it boils down to. american premeds accept the system without questioning it, but i am not like this. my hope was that with you guys not being american premeds, i could hear another perspective on the issue. if nobody is able to offer any insight, well, that is sad, but i suppose that may be the case since thinkers and questioners in the world are few and far between, with most people going along with the tide. others who do question and think "i cant do anything about it" result in something called the status quo.

I just got back from India and had the opportunity to visit an IIT (Bombay). Yes, the admissions process is a LOT more rigid. But this is not neccessarily a good thing.

For example, they have a very rigid cutoff as to how many students they will admit per year, I think somewhere around 2000. The rest, even those who were mere FRACTIONS of points away are rejected. What is the difference between the guy who scores a 95 and another who scores a 94.5? Other than the baseless ides to perpetuate their own self-grandeur by claiming that they ONLY take 2000 students a year, absolutely NOTHING. Does India really only need 2000 engineers a year. I don't think so. It needs an exponentially larger number (especially if the majority of those 2000 are pining to leave for the US anyway).

Also, the JEE (Joint Entrance Exam) is not exactly a great tool for "filtering" students. A true standardized test is supposed to show a proper gaussian distribution. The JEE however, takes a pool of the hardest of the toughest questions known to man in math, physics, chem etc and then selects the hardest among them for the test. Essentially, only the Ramanujans come through. Once again, this ties in to my earlier argument of self-aggrandizement. Yes, its good that there are 2000 insanely bright ppl. But it wouldn't hurt to accept 10000 more above avg students. But IIT won't do this since it goes againt their character.

Also, you don't really have the liberty of choosing your "major" unless you score in the top 200 ranks. After that, there is a hierarchy which dictates what your major will be. For example, a 150 rank student CAN choose computers (or any other field which is currently the hottest in US at the moment) while a 250 rank student CANNOT choose computers and HAS to take whatever major falls within that bracket - be it electrical engineering, mechanical, chemical etc.
If you ask me, that blows. I wouldn't want to work my ass off and get to that point where someone else tells me what career to pursue.

And let's not forget the brain drain factor. If IIT is going to be so damn pretentious about only taking the cream of the crop, they should atleast be able to hang on to them. Here, med schools give preference for students who plan to work in the US. There's no such criteria for IIT. Basically, these top 2000 students leech the resources paid for out of Indian citizens' pockets and then head for the nearest airport.

And don't even get me started on the sexism at IIT. During my brother's year, out of 200 students in electrical engineering, guess how many girls there were? EIGHT!! That's just disgusting.

I can go on for pages, but trust me, the IIT admissions isn't as great as ppl/CBS 60 minutes/Business Week make it out to be. Having witnessed both (my brother for IIT and myself for med school here), I'd take the US system anyday. Here, you see a person's FULL merit - academic, personal and otherwise. Only then can a calculated, accountable admissions decision be made.
Not based on a JEE rank.

 

[Shredder]

thanks for the input, gtg right now but i will get to it shortly