I'm having trouble really "shadowing"

[dr.phoot]

I've gone in to two different offices to shadow two different podiatrist. One of them was even recommended to me through NYCPM.

Problem: each time that I went in to shadow these podiatrist, the shadowing turned into a Q&A session. They didn't let me sit-in with them when patients came in. They said it's because of confidentiality issues and privacy, etc. The NYCPM alumnus said he'll try to get me into the hospital, where he's a residency director, so I could talk with the residents, follow them around on rounds for the day, etc (which sounded super awesome!!) but he said the hospitals wouldn't allow it. I needed to be with an organization or a school or something.

I sent out two emails to NYCPM asking if they could provide any documentation to help me get passed this barrier. No replies (it's been 4 months).

I really would like a day or two of observing doc-patient interactions, watching some surgery, and just to be sure I'm not going to be uncomfortable/squeamish around all the blood and bone. Are YouTube videos enough to really determine that?

So... to all my brothers and sisters in the podiatry and pre-podiatry family, how was your shadowing experience? How did you get into the OR? How were you able to convince your pod--that you shadowed--to let you tag along when patients came in?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[plant based]

Why wouldn't they let you see the patients with them? That's the whole point of shadowing! The podiatrists I shadowed just asked the patients beforehand if it was okay if I came in and observed. I wasn't allowed to see a surgery in a hospital because of paperwork and other issues, but I was able to shadow surgeries done in a surgical suite in the podiatrist's office. There shouldn't be any issues, again they just asked the patients if it was alright.

 

[Weirdy]

What @plant based said.

You are looking in the wrong places. Hospitals/med centers will have crazy amounts of paperwork and hurdles you need to jump.

Even after turning in all pertinent paperwork it will take them weeks if not months to get you permission.

Find a private practice or multispecialty. Talk to them in person and see if you can sit in on a surgery.

 

[dr.phoot]

Why wouldn't they let you see the patients with them? That's the whole point of shadowing! The podiatrists I shadowed just asked the patients beforehand if it was okay if I came in and observed. I wasn't allowed to see a surgery in a hospital because of paperwork and other issues, but I was able to shadow surgeries done in a surgical suite in the podiatrist's office. There shouldn't be any issues, again they just asked the patients if it was alright.

Hmm.... the two I shadowed dismissed it completely. One guy sat me at the computer in his office, Google the entrance requirements and the prereqs and the average stats for schools lol... I don't even......

What @plant based said.

You are looking in the wrong places. Hospitals/med centers will have crazy amounts of paperwork and hurdles you need to jump.

Even after turning in all pertinent paperwork it will take them weeks if not months to get you permission.

Find a private practice or multispecialty. Talk to them in person and see if you can sit in on a surgery.

Second podiatrist--the residency director--was a private one. I visited him in his private practice. We chat in his office and he would leave me by myself to attend to patients in the examination room when they came. Then he'll come back in the office and chat with me. He was very insightful though. Great role model too.

Since he'll be the one writing my rec letter, I'll give him another call this week and discuss it over the phone before I waste time visiting just to sit and talk again.


Thanks, guys!

 

[Weirdy]

Hmm.... the two I shadowed dismissed it completely. One guy sat me at the computer in his office, Google the entrance requirements and the prereqs and the average stats for schools lol... I don't even......


Second podiatrist--the residency director--was a private one. I visited him in his private practice. We chat in his office and he would leave me by myself to attend to patients in the examination room when they came. Then he'll come back in the office and chat with me. He was very insightful though. Great role model too.

Since he'll be the one writing my rec letter, I'll give him another call this week and discuss it over the phone before I waste time visiting just to sit and talk again.


Thanks, guys!

Oh wow.....that is strange.

Before your interviews, call him and see if you can get some info on patient scenarios even if you weren't allowed in the room. Stuff like "what were common procedures/comorbidities/characteristics/patient population". Will go a long way.

 

[ldsrmdude]

Hmm.... the two I shadowed dismissed it completely. One guy sat me at the computer in his office, Google the entrance requirements and the prereqs and the average stats for schools lol... I don't even......


Second podiatrist--the residency director--was a private one. I visited him in his private practice. We chat in his office and he would leave me by myself to attend to patients in the examination room when they came. Then he'll come back in the office and chat with me. He was very insightful though. Great role model too.

Since he'll be the one writing my rec letter, I'll give him another call this week and discuss it over the phone before I waste time visiting just to sit and talk again.


Thanks, guys!

Find another podiatrist to shadow. If you're not actually seeing what the podiatrist does, you're not getting the full benefit. Even if you still have the residency director write a letter, you need to see what it's like on a daily basis. You can watch videos to get some idea of what surgery is, but you need to actually shadow a podiatrist in the office

 

[TimmyTurner]

You have to remember- while many will say "Sure, you can shadow anytime!" You're limiting their productive capacity. They have to explain to each patient when you walk in who you are, why you're there, and if it is OK if they sit in. Then, in between appointments, you're trying to ask questions or impress, and they probably just want to catch up on paperwork or answer emails. I had trouble shadowing (not as much as you). At one practice I shadowed, I felt like a hot potato. Every time we passed by another Pod in between appointments the Pod I was with said "Hey, Dr. X., meet this guy, he's a pre-pod, why don't you take him?"

Just keep asking around. The podiatrists I shadowed I had met previously and knew through a few different people. Cold calling different offices only yielded a few call backs and invites.

Just keep calling. Private practices are best bet.

 

[dr.phoot]

Update:

So I just got off the phone w/ the doctor I shadowed (the residency director).

I brought up the shadowing thing again and he said he can ask some of the patients--in his private practice--in they're okay with a student interested in the field coming to sit in. And he said he's certain more than half will say yes and not have a problem with that. So we can make that happen.

In regards to the hospital and OR aspect, he said he's 100% there's no way for me to get in the OR without the whole lengthy paperwork process, going through this administration and that and that. What he can do is bring me in to check out rounds but he'll still have to pull some strings with that. I told him coming into his private office and sitting in is fine, but he countered the hospital will be a big part of what I'll do, especially during residency years so I really should get a feel for that too.

Tl; dr - he said I can come in and sit in on patient visits in his private practice / office. So @TimmyTurner, you were right.


Now there's another problem. He's agreed to write me a recommendation, but said I should write a paragraph telling him why I want to go into podiatry, what my major in school was, what school I attended and specifics about GPA / class rank, etc.

That's the problem. My grades are so bad that I'm embarrassed to share it with him..... I can't lie either. What should I do?

 

[Weirdy]

Update:

So I just got off the phone w/ the doctor I shadowed (the residency director).

I brought up the shadowing thing again and he said he can ask some of the patients--in his private practice--in they're okay with a student interested in the field coming to sit in. And he said he's certain more than half will say yes and not have a problem with that. So we can make that happen.

In regards to the hospital and OR aspect, he said he's 100% there's no way for me to get in the OR without the whole lengthy paperwork process, going through this administration and that and that. What he can do is bring me in to check out rounds but he'll still have to pull some strings with that. I told him coming into his private office and sitting in is fine, but he countered the hospital will be a big part of what I'll do, especially during residency years so I really should get a feel for that too.

Tl; dr - he said I can come in and sit in on patient visits in his private practice / office. So @TimmyTurner, you were right.


Now there's another problem. He's agreed to write me a recommendation, but said I should write a paragraph telling him why I want to go into podiatry, what my major in school was, what school I attended and specifics about GPA / class rank, etc.

That's the problem. My grades are so bad that I'm embarrassed to share it with him..... I can't lie either. What should I do?

No point in lying.

You're shadowing him for a reason. Give him an outline admitting to your low grades, what you've done since then, what you did wrong, and what you're willing to do to fix it.

Edit:

You have to remember, during interviews they'll bring out any and all holes in your file. The quicker you own up to it and highlight what you did wrong + what you're doing currently to correct it, the easier the interview goes.

 

[SLCpod]

Update:

So I just got off the phone w/ the doctor I shadowed (the residency director).

I brought up the shadowing thing again and he said he can ask some of the patients--in his private practice--in they're okay with a student interested in the field coming to sit in. And he said he's certain more than half will say yes and not have a problem with that. So we can make that happen.

In regards to the hospital and OR aspect, he said he's 100% there's no way for me to get in the OR without the whole lengthy paperwork process, going through this administration and that and that. What he can do is bring me in to check out rounds but he'll still have to pull some strings with that. I told him coming into his private office and sitting in is fine, but he countered the hospital will be a big part of what I'll do, especially during residency years so I really should get a feel for that too.

Tl; dr - he said I can come in and sit in on patient visits in his private practice / office. So @TimmyTurner, you were right.


Now there's another problem. He's agreed to write me a recommendation, but said I should write a paragraph telling him why I want to go into podiatry, what my major in school was, what school I attended and specifics about GPA / class rank, etc.

That's the problem. My grades are so bad that I'm embarrassed to share it with him..... I can't lie either. What should I do?

Seems like a reasonable request in order to write a LOR. A lot of people will see your grades during the evaluation process. It'll be good practice in explaining how you've gotten better.

 

[dr.phoot]

No point in lying.

You're shadowing him for a reason. Give him an outline admitting to your low grades, what you've done since then, what you did wrong, and what you're willing to do to fix it.

Edit:

You have to remember, during interviews they'll bring out any and all holes in your file. The quicker you own up to it and highlight what you did wrong + what you're doing currently to correct it, the easier the interview goes.

Seems like a reasonable request in order to write a LOR. A lot of people will see your grades during the evaluation process. It'll be good practice in explaining how you've gotten better.

You guys are right. The guy is also a bit of my role model so I feel like I'll be letting him down / disappointing him.

I'll just give him a copy of my p/s draft which touches on all the points he brought up.

Thank you all for your suggestions. It's what pushed me to give him a call and ask about sitting in when he gets patients.

 

[dr.phoot]

Monday (1.15.'17) I'll be shadowing another podiatrist. This time I'll actually get to sit in on the cases.

It's at a senior's home so all the cases will be toe nail clipping, and very minor non-surgical stuff. I'm expecting a lot of talking and follow-up discussions since these are patients the podiatrist sees bi-weekly.

I'm not even sure what to ask now since I've done all my research on this field already. At this point, just about every stone has been turned. I just needed some patient exposure.

Anyway, if anyone has any questions they'll like me to ask him, just drop it here. I'll be checking my phone up to about 30 mins before I meet him.

 

[poditrained]

Monday (1.15.'17) I'll be shadowing another podiatrist. This time I'll actually get to sit in on the cases.

It's at a senior's home so all the cases will be toe nail clipping, and very minor non-surgical stuff. I'm expecting a lot of talking and follow-up discussions since these are patients the podiatrist sees bi-weekly.

I'm not even sure what to ask now since I've done all my research on this field already. At this point, just about every stone has been turned. I just needed some patient exposure.

Anyway, if anyone has any questions they'll like me to ask him, just drop it here. I'll be checking my phone up to about 30 mins before I meet him.

Ask him his opinion about the outlook of the profession. It's always interesting to hear different perspectives, especially since he's working an overlooked side of the pod employment spectrum.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[5words]

Hmm.... the two I shadowed dismissed it completely. One guy sat me at the computer in his office, Google the entrance requirements and the prereqs and the average stats for schools lol... I don't even......


Second podiatrist--the residency director--was a private one. I visited him in his private practice. We chat in his office and he would leave me by myself to attend to patients in the examination room when they came. Then he'll come back in the office and chat with me. He was very insightful though. Great role model too.

Since he'll be the one writing my rec letter, I'll give him another call this week and discuss it over the phone before I waste time visiting just to sit and talk again.


Thanks, guys!

Lol

 

[CommyO]

Don't people shadow mostly just to put
"Shadowed X for X amount of hours..." on apps
I would be uncomfortable having a student shadowing my doctor...

 

[Weirdy]

Don't people shadow mostly just to put
"Shadowed X for X amount of hours..." on apps
I would be uncomfortable having a student shadowing my doctor...

Which is why most doctors ask the patient first "This is so-and-so, is it ok if he/she observes?"

To which point CommyO says "I am uncomfortable with having a student shadowing."

The shadow then stands outside in the hallway fiddling their thumbs and wondering how much their feet ache.

 

[bobtheweazel]

Which is why most doctors ask the patient first "This is so-and-so, is it ok if he/she observes?"

To which point CommyO says "I am uncomfortable with having a student shadowing."

The shadow then stands outside in the hallway fiddling their thumbs and wondering how much their feet ache.

Weirdy, did you end up shadowing the same doc as me? I don't wanna say his name, but he def let me go in on all his patients and then we would chat in between in his office. He let me watch him type his notes as well—like he wasn't limiting what I could see/learn. When he really needed to make a call or focus on something he would just hand me one of his journals or pod magazines to read and then afterwards I was right back on top of him. Of course it was mostly just nail clipping, ankle sprains, injections, and inserts, but he did let me go in on all of them. He also didn't ask the patients, he just introduced me as a student interested in podiatry and every patient was very friendly and would chat with me in between when the doctor wasn't talking. One of the patients even wanted to hold me cause she was scared (he was removing her toenail or something) and another time he asked my opinion on something orthotic related in front of the patient because he knew I had background in it. He would also let me ask him questions anytime about anything, whether the patient was there or not. He made me feel super welcome. If the docs y'all are shadowing do any less, they're doing you a disservice.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using SDN mobile

 

[Weirdy]

Weirdy, did you end up shadowing the same doc as me? I don't wanna say his name, but he def let me go in on all his patients and then we would chat in between in his office. He let me watch him type his notes as well—like he wasn't limiting what I could see/learn. When he really needed to make a call or focus on something he would just hand me one of his journals or pod magazines to read and then afterwards I was right back on top of him. Of course it was mostly just nail clipping, ankle sprains, injections, and inserts, but he did let me go in on all of them. He also didn't ask the patients, he just introduced me as a student interested in podiatry and every patient was very friendly and would chat with me in between when the doctor wasn't talking. One of the patients even wanted to hold me cause she was scared (he was removing her toenail or something) and another time he asked my opinion on something orthotic related in front of the patient because he knew I had background in it. He would also let me ask him questions anytime about anything, whether the patient was there or not. He made me feel super welcome. If the docs y'all are shadowing do any less, they're doing you a disservice.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using SDN mobile

To the tee. He even mentioned you haha. He's a class act and I wish I had more time to shadow him this semester. Planning to swing by his office with a little gift and just catch up with him before I graduate.

He let me sit in on everything. All of the patients were really nice and they even asked me what I was in to and shook my hand on the way out.

One patient had a diabetic foot ulcer that was unchecked but currently taken care of by wound care. Wound care referred him to the doc. Doc took an X ray, pulled me over and explained to me what he was looking for, seeing if the infection reached bone yet and pointing out on the Xray what I was supposed to see if it did before we went in to take care of the patient. While he was cleaning up the ulcer he explained if he was doing the same thing to me I'd be yelping but because of the neuropathy, the patient couldn't feel anything. Answered all questions I had for him and more.