I'm I crazy? MD to PA?

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I think the OP stopped reading this thread a while ago, but, yeah, dropping out for a current husband and a pregnancy = probably a bad decision. Dropping out for theoretical husband who might eventually want theoretical kids, I mean where do you even start with something like that? The OP is worried that in 4 years she won't be able to have kids because it would interfere with her Intern year. Setting aside the fact that people do have familys as interns, and that PAing isn't all that easy, and that doctors have many more options than PAs to work variable part time if they want to spend more time with their kids, isn't 4 years a pretty short time-frame to move from pickup line to marriage to deciding to have a faimly?

Also while the OP's picture is definitely attractive, someone this keen on breeding generally scares the crap outta me. I think she might have more problems finding a husband than some of the posters here seem to think. Think Kelly Kapoor from The Office.

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oh yeah, I forgot.
with my undergrad sci gpa of 3.97 there was no way I could have gotten into any medschool...that's why I went pa......

Great dude, your a PA who could have gone to medical school. Just like the umpteen thousand nurses I run into on the wards daily who "could have gone to medical school". :sleep:
 
A lot of advice on this thread. Some good, some not so good.

To emphasize one point - if you stick with medical school, do not choose a specialty because the residency is easy or it will allow you to have a family while still training. Your specialty will be yours for the 30+ years; a 3-5 year residency is a relative drop in the bucket. Choose a specialty because you enjoy it, and then cater it to your wants and needs once your training is over. There are plenty of 30 something attending female surgeons out there that work part time and have a family.
 
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As a PA for the past six years I can only provide the OP my experiences:

1) I was originally premed and then got married; decided to go PA to have a family.


2) I was a firefighter/paramedic for 12 years and a Navy Corpsman for 5 years before that

3) I have been a trauma/thoracic/vascular surgery and surgical critical care PA for 6 years

4) My HIGHEST salary of these six years was $103K

5) I work 55-60 hrs/wk

6) My 2 and 4 year old boys are asleep when I leave for the hospital, and most nights are getting ready for bed when I come home, if not already sleeping

7) I get to see them on the weekends, that is when I am not rounding or on call

8) I am now pre-med again and hope to be in anesthesia or EM by the time I am 44, when my boys are 10 and 12...

Thus...when all is said and done, I will work 12-14 days per month, make around $350K and spend time with my family because I will be doing shift work...OP, IMHO do not make the mistake I did....you are already way ahead of me, only ten years younger...I just have more experience, which should count for something...good luck whichever way you go.

erin go bragh! :luck:
 
Similar experience to fbi doc...
originally premed,working as an emt/er tech through college, met and married my college sweetheart. decided to go to paramedic school instead of medschool to stay in the area for her senior yr. after that we were both in serious debt. I had worked with pa's and knew it was a good job with a good scope so after a few yrs as a medic I went to pa school. I continued to work as a medic through the didactic portion of school at least 24 hrs/week(slow station so I was basically paid to study).
got an em job right out of school. completed a masters and post masters yr in clinical em.
over the next few yrs took every available em merit badge course out there(fccs, difficult airway, pals, atls, abls, acls and phtls instructor, etc).
I am now on the federal disaster medical team.
I have worked as associate director of a community emergency dept. and been in charge of 12 other pa's as well as involved with overseeing a group of 20 er docs. I have multiple publications in peer reviewed medical journals.
after 5 yrs as a pa I went back to school while working full time to finish medschool prereqs which I did with a 4.0.
when I sat down to look at the reality of applying it ceased to make sense. depending on how much overtime I work I make 125-150k/yr(best 152k) working an avg of 50 hrs/week.
price of medschool + 7 yrs of lost income is well over 1 million dollars.....I "break even " as an md (or more likely DO) vs as a pa around the time most folks retire and in the meantime would have neglected my family for at least 7 yrs....not worth it....so every few yrs I change jobs to one that allows me a better scope of practice and more autonomy....now I cover A small dept solo on night shifts as well as working at a few trauma ctrs during the days.10 yrs from now I will probably work full time solo coverage in a rural dept somewhere or overseas.
should I have sucked it up and gone to medschool 15 yrs ago...probably....too late now unless some type of bridge program comes into being.....I make good money and have a pretty good job now and no debt but the em docs I work with work a lot less(avg 12-14 eight hr shifts/mo while I work 18-20 shifts/mo ranging from 10-20 hrs/shift) for a lot more money and job security.
 
Isn't all this based on the assumption that the OP will meet someone and then have children with him (of coarse IVF is an option--but it doesn't seem that is what she is looking for) to start this hypothetical family. If she is indeed the person in the avatar--she is cute. And there is no doubt that many men would be attracted to her. But starting a family/getting married is more than just good looks, its a decision that should be made based on experiences and personalities that mesh over a significant period. If having kids is your motivating factor for marriage/family...then I think one must reconsider what marriage/family is all about.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that you can't predict the future with absolute certainty. And if you think that having more time as a PA will allow you to have a family more than if you were a MD, then I think you are putting the cart before the horse--as they say. Because wouldn't it be a tragedy to drop out of med school, become a PA, and never find a person that was an ideal suitor for this hypothetical family?

My advice (for whatever its worth) is just do what you love, and let everything else fall into place. If it was meant to be it will be and you will recognize it. All the best! :luck:
 
I am a first year medical student. I love med school and I am doing very well academically, yet I am thinking of switching to a PA instead. Why? I am concerned about being able to have a family life outside of medicine. Especially during residency, this is when I would most likely want to start a family. Family is very important to me, and even though I don't have one right now, I know I do want one and I want to be there for them. Although some people are fine with having kids in day care everyday, I don't think I would want to do that. Yes maybe 2-3 days so I can work part time, but that would be it. So do people think that is crazy to give up med school for PA school when I have really been excelling thus far in med school and really enjoy it? Would PA school is satisfying? If anyone has any advice from people who have switched b/w programs or have worried about being a woman in the medical field with the whole balancing act of family and work, I would love to hear what people think!

This is one of weak points of SDN, where people can post anything they want, even liers, and see how many students ( NOT residents or attendings )read topic like this.

I suspect this poster is not a medical student. If you're a med student now, you almost finish your first year. If you're going to apply to PA schools, and if You're accepted, you'll start on Summer/Fall 2009 and you'll graduate in 2011, the same time that you're going to graduate from med school if you stayed.

In terms of life styles , you either don't have friends as attendings or you just heard rumors (again, student). I have a lot ped and FM docs who have good life styles. It's more difficult to be a female doc, but it's very doable. PA's life is not much better if you happened to work in some fields like surgery.

In terms of money, by 2011, you'll make 45k as a resident, versus 80k as a PA (full-time), but 3 years later. You'll make at least 150k. If you really want family life, you can work part-time and make 80k easily as an MD (there is not true for PA).

With all the reasons above, it's unlikely that you're a true medical student. People can start threads like "MD to DO" or "MD to DPM" etc...

PA and MD are different professions. I never hear of 3.5 year PA program, the longest PA program that I heard was 2.5 year and shorter one is 1.5 year. If you want to compare PA and MD, go to the real world and see what they can do. Don't go here and listen online.

If you're truly a medical student, I feel really sorry for your medical school and those who didn't get into that school.


I'm trying to see my friend in today match and just happened to read this topic.
 
This is one of weak points of SDN, where people can post anything they want, even liers, and see how many students ( NOT residents or attendings )read topic like this.

I suspect this poster is not a medical student. If you're a med student now, you almost finish your first year. If you're going to apply to PA schools, and if You're accepted, you'll start on Summer/Fall 2009 and you'll graduate in 2011, the same time that you're going to graduate from med school if you stayed.

In terms of life styles , you either don't have friends as attendings or you just heard rumors (again, student). I have a lot ped and FM docs who have good life styles. It's more difficult to be a female doc, but it's very doable. PA's life is not much better if you happened to work in some fields like surgery.

In terms of money, by 2011, you'll make 45k as a resident, versus 80k as a PA (full-time), but 3 years later. You'll make at least 150k. If you really want family life, you can work part-time and make 80k easily as an MD (there is not true for PA).

With all the reasons above, it's unlikely that you're a true medical student. People can start threads like "MD to DO" or "MD to DPM" etc...

PA and MD are different professions. I never hear of 3.5 year PA program, the longest PA program that I heard was 2.5 year and shorter one is 1.5 year. If you want to compare PA and MD, go to the real world and see what they can do. Don't go here and listen online.

If you're truly a medical student, I feel really sorry for your medical school and those who didn't get into that school.


I'm trying to see my friend in today match and just happened to read this topic.

Nothing against the OP, but the waitlist (which I was on) didn't move last year, and I sure would have taken her spot!
 
Either you switch entirely out of medicine or you just continue with your med school gig. If the physician is eating sh$%, then I can only imagine the physician's assistant is nothing more than an assistant sh&% eater. If you don't like sh%$, pack up and move on.
 
I'm a PGY2. This a case of "the grass is always greener." I say, absolutely the OP should stay in medicine. There are VERY laid-back residencies out there (FP, IM, psych, path, PM&R) that are both relatively short and lead to flexible careers that would pay at least as well as a PA if you were to work part time. I think the OP has an unrealistic view of what a PA really is. PAs still take call, work long hours, etc. The OP would be no more likely to have more family time as a PA. Being an MD with an unrestricted license opens up doors that I don't think exist for PAs. For example, in my program a good number of the residents moonlight. There are opportunities to stay in-house overnight at rehab hospitals and other similar opportunities, cover ER shifts, be present at imaging centers for IV contrast administration, etc. and these are quite lucrative. One of the senior residents worked a 70 hour ER shift in small town, USA over a holiday and made $11K. Staying overnight at one of the hospitals and babysitting patients, putting in lines, seeing consults, etc. is worth $800-1000. I could work 3-4 overnights a month and double my salary as a resident. I could probably even moonlight full time if I had to. There is also the whole avenue of locum tenens. Do a month or 2 somewhere covering a practice and then take a month or 2 off. Basically, I think being an MD would give the OP a lot more flexibility with at least the same earning potential and she'd be making a rash and foolish decision to drop out, especially considering that she'd finish the PA program AFTER she would have graduated medical school (and into, say, a path residency where you probably work 40h/week and 1 weekend/month tops).
 
I would stay in medical school if I was finishing my first year and doing really well. You worked hard up to this point and it sounds like you are thinking way too far into the future. Keep things current, work hard now, and everything will fall into place. Now only if I can follow my own advice.....

...Right now I am deciding if I want to enter medical school or pa school. I think too far into the future also, it sucks.
 
Something that has not been suggested to the OP (that I have seen) is some long discussions with good female MD mentors.

As others have suggested, there are definitely fields out there that are decently family friendly. Stuff like Derm and Ophtho are competitive but essentially 9-5. Anesthesia is a great field where sure, you have to take call but you are also compensated quite well. Even being an IM hospitalist (3 years of an easy-to-get residency) you can pull $150-200 doing what is essentially week long shifts.

One thing that the OP might consider is that by being an MD in certain fields she might spend a few less hours a week with the kiddos but but able to pump up their college funds all the more.

It's definitely a tough decision, if you were sitting in front of me I tell you to really evaluate your personality. My best friend is a female med student, definitely wants the house-kids scene at some point but she just does not have the personality to not be in charge so PA would not be a good option for her. I don't think that's a bad thing at all.
 
Why hasn't anyone mentioned the "one year wonder"? Do an internship and then go into private practice as a general practioner.
 
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Why hasn't anyone mentioned the "one year wonder"? Do an internship and then go into private practice as a general practioner.

It can be tough these days to just finish your internship, get your license, and "hang your shingle." There just aren't that many jobs for people that aren't board-eligible - it's tough to get insured.

Usually you'll resort to locum tenens-type work at places like urgent care centers.
 
I have been out off the country for a while on a medical brigade, but to answer some questions that have been coming up:

No, I am not married yet but yes I am in a long distance relationship with someone in who is in dental school. I went straight from undergrad to medical school so I am only 23.

Someone else once mentioned this one year internship and then doing general practice. Is this really an option?
 
My mother was a stay at home mom too. While I enjoyed my time with my mother, I don't think I would've been worse off if it had been my father taking care of us instead.

And you never answered - are you even married? If your not, then you shouldn't be worried about having kids right now. For that matter - you don't even know that you can have kids. Why switch careers so prematurely for something you can't guarantee?

Don't count your chickens before they're hatched. Finish med school, go from there. If your not married yet and having a stay at home figure is important to you - marry someone who is willing to stay at home with your kids. Or, marry someone who can afford for you to stay at home before your children go to school. You've got time to worry about this later. Don't quit school and regret it later.

I totally agree with lilnoelle. My fiance and I have talked about what we will do when we have children and we have decided that he will go part time, or possibly stay home altogether and his mom (retired) will also help with child care. It may not be the Leave it to Beaver world that we all want, but I don't think that starting a family is ever how we expect it to be. There are many many many doctors who have successfully done both and you can too. I would hate to see you give up medicine when you've done so well in the first year when you are not even married yet. Don't think by my answer that I don't know how you feel, I agonized over PA and MD too because of my desire to raise a family, but in the end I had to go to the one I felt most pulled towards and that was MD. If you truly feel a calling to be a PA then you should do it. But it sounds like you would just be doing it out of fear and not because it was a calling. That's why I think you should stay in med school. Good luck in whatever you decide.
 
I have been out off the country for a while on a medical brigade, but to answer some questions that have been coming up:

No, I am not married yet but yes I am in a long distance relationship with someone in who is in dental school. I went straight from undergrad to medical school so I am only 23.

Someone else once mentioned this one year internship and then doing general practice. Is this really an option?

Absolutely, it's an option. The two main primary care doctors in the small town I grew up only did a one year internship. Its very common in the more rural parts of the country. That's a much, much better option than dropping to PA. You could do urgent care work, have you own office, whatever. If after kids are in school you want to go back and do a residency you can.
 
If you want to spend time with your children, you can mold your medical career around your family. Obviously it's MUCH harder if you want to be a neurosurgeon. But that's where the trade-off comes in. You just have to be dedicated to both spheres. It sounds like you're really wavering on the medical sphere.

If you want to be a stay-at-home mom, 24/7 (or even 16/5), then I wouldn't even say PA school will be a good fit. Medical careers involving patient care require time. You can't be a career woman and a full-time stay-at-home mom. You can be a career woman and a spends-quality-time-with-kids mom. It's a nature of the career beast. You have to (and probably should have before this point) decide what you want most out of life, and if every waking moment with your offspring is priority #1, then you have to put your career on the backburner.

Personally, I look forward to having kids, but after being employed as a daily nanny (once for twin infants, once for a toddler), I *know* I'll have to get out of my house at least 8-12 hours a day. Being around tots all day for weeks on end frazzled me to the bone, I loved the kids but hated the rest of my life. And I love medicine. So I want that balance.
 
Absolutely, it's an option. The two main primary care doctors in the small town I grew up only did a one year internship. Its very common in the more rural parts of the country.

Are they much older?

It's more difficult to do this nowadays (though of course still possible) because of the difficulties in acquiring insurance coverage and/or getting employed (most employers require that you be at least BE). But certainly, it's an option in more rural areas.
 
Just get the MD degree and do whatever you want after. Your already a quarter of the way through.

I know a woman who finished her MD, then decided that she didn't want to be a clinician. She really wanted to focus on family, so she just ended up teaching some college classes part time.

She got a nice little pay day (not great money, but pretty good), and once her kids got old enough, she started working for a pharmaceutical company and made some really good money.
 
"I'm I crazy" sounds very crazy indeed.

p.s. The short form for "you are" is "you're", not "your"; a mistake that apparently everyone (or almost everyone) in America makes.:D
 
I think more and more insurance companies are requiring that you be at least board-eligible to be part of their provider network. So it might be difficult to draw patients if you cannot join any insurance panels. Perhaps the old-time GP docs have been grandfathered into their participation with the health plans? I'm sure there are still clinical employment opportunities out there for a non-residency trained physician but they may be more rare than people realize.
 
To emphasize one point - if you stick with medical school, do not choose a specialty because the residency is easy or it will allow you to have a family while still training. Your specialty will be yours for the 30+ years; a 3-5 year residency is a relative drop in the bucket. Choose a specialty because you enjoy it, and then cater it to your wants and needs once your training is over. There are plenty of 30 something attending female surgeons out there that work part time and have a family.

This is the soundest advice you could possibly be given on the topic in question :thumbup:
 
I am a first year medical student. I love med school and I am doing very well academically, yet I am thinking of switching to a PA instead. Why? I am concerned about being able to have a family life outside of medicine. Especially during residency, this is when I would most likely want to start a family. Family is very important to me, and even though I don't have one right now, I know I do want one and I want to be there for them. Although some people are fine with having kids in day care everyday, I don't think I would want to do that. Yes maybe 2-3 days so I can work part time, but that would be it. So do people think that is crazy to give up med school for PA school when I have really been excelling thus far in med school and really enjoy it? Would PA school is satisfying? If anyone has any advice from people who have switched b/w programs or have worried about being a woman in the medical field with the whole balancing act of family and work, I would love to hear what people think!

I didn't read all of the other posts so maybe similar advice has already been given. I wouldn't switch. You can go into a specialty that will allow you a better lifestyle (probably better than a lot of PAs).

Also, if your avatar is you then you are one of the hotter girls I have seen in medical school and that would be a terrible thing to waste.
 
I am a first year medical student. I love med school and I am doing very well academically, yet I am thinking of switching to a PA instead. Why? I am concerned about being able to have a family life outside of medicine. Especially during residency, this is when I would most likely want to start a family. Family is very important to me, and even though I don't have one right now, I know I do want one and I want to be there for them. Although some people are fine with having kids in day care everyday, I don't think I would want to do that. Yes maybe 2-3 days so I can work part time, but that would be it. So do people think that is crazy to give up med school for PA school when I have really been excelling thus far in med school and really enjoy it? Would PA school is satisfying? If anyone has any advice from people who have switched b/w programs or have worried about being a woman in the medical field with the whole balancing act of family and work, I would love to hear what people think!

I know someone who is taking a year off after med school and is going to work as a PA. He never went to PA school btw. All he had to do was take a test (which was freakin easy). I don't know how long PA school is or the difference in debt, but you could potentially go through med school and still be a PA.

It will be strange to be a PA with an MD next to your name.
 
Can't do this. Not in the US anyway. The only people eligible to sit for NCCPA (National Commission on Certification of Physician Assistants) licensing exam are graduates of an accredited AMA-approved PA program. Not sure exactly what your friend is doing but he's not going to work as a PA. Maybe as a "kinda-sorta-like-a-PA" but if he calls himself a PA or attempts to sign PA, could be guilty of practicing without a license.
Be careful.

I know someone who is taking a year off after med school and is going to work as a PA. He never went to PA school btw. All he had to do was take a test (which was freakin easy). I don't know how long PA school is or the difference in debt, but you could potentially go through med school and still be a PA.

It will be strange to be a PA with an MD next to your name.
 
I am a first year medical student. I love med school and I am doing very well academically, yet I am thinking of switching to a PA instead. Why? I am concerned about being able to have a family life outside of medicine. Especially during residency, this is when I would most likely want to start a family. Family is very important to me, and even though I don't have one right now, I know I do want one and I want to be there for them. Although some people are fine with having kids in day care everyday, I don't think I would want to do that. Yes maybe 2-3 days so I can work part time, but that would be it. So do people think that is crazy to give up med school for PA school when I have really been excelling thus far in med school and really enjoy it? Would PA school is satisfying? If anyone has any advice from people who have switched b/w programs or have worried about being a woman in the medical field with the whole balancing act of family and work, I would love to hear what people think!


Y are you in med score first of all. This is why they ask you if you really want to be a doctor. Let me guess, the smell of your white coat and power go to your head. Seriously, look at what you will be doing. Somewhere, someone did not get your seat. That someone may not every try to be a doctor. Who knows, maybe that someone was the next great medical mind of our generation. you never know! Do you seriously think a PA = more time at home with kids. Guess what baby, if my pager goes off at 2AM adn you are my PA, I guarantee you will be first at the scene before I get there. Make a decision!
 
I think you should complete medical school. If you're decently attractive, intelligent (MD) and with strong family values, you'll have no trouble marrying rich, then you can just quit for a while. If you marry someone powerful in the medicine realm, you could probably take several years off and then restart your residency at a later point (if you cared to) through some sort of connection. Just a thought? I think an MD even if she doesn't want to work is a hotter commodity on the marrying market than a PA who is working.

Now some will take offense to this post, or even call me a troll, but this is just a brutally honest post on the way the world works.
 
Y are you in med score first of all. This is why they ask you if you really want to be a doctor. Let me guess, the smell of your white coat and power go to your head. Seriously, look at what you will be doing. Somewhere, someone did not get your seat. That someone may not every try to be a doctor. Who knows, maybe that someone was the next great medical mind of our generation. you never know! Do you seriously think a PA = more time at home with kids. Guess what baby, if my pager goes off at 2AM adn you are my PA, I guarantee you will be first at the scene before I get there. Make a decision!

You're missing the point.
 
I am a first year medical student. I love med school and I am doing very well academically, yet I am thinking of switching to a PA instead. Why? I am concerned about being able to have a family life outside of medicine. Especially during residency, this is when I would most likely want to start a family. Family is very important to me, and even though I don't have one right now, I know I do want one and I want to be there for them. Although some people are fine with having kids in day care everyday, I don't think I would want to do that. Yes maybe 2-3 days so I can work part time, but that would be it. So do people think that is crazy to give up med school for PA school when I have really been excelling thus far in med school and really enjoy it? Would PA school is satisfying? If anyone has any advice from people who have switched b/w programs or have worried about being a woman in the medical field with the whole balancing act of family and work, I would love to hear what people think!
:)


I have sent you a PM with my email. PLEASE email me so we don't have to go into deep discussion on this forum. In answer to your question, no one can TELL you what to do. But email me, because there are several questions I would like to ask apart from this forum.

In summary, I am a woman who is about to graduate from a military medical school. Family means everything to me. The situation you describe above has been something I have struggled with since beginning medical school--priorities change. I originally joined the Army with plans to do my "20 years" and then retire to a missionary doctor in Africa or a country with a dire need. I thought I could travel as much as I want and would remain single. I LOVE MEDICINE. I still love medicine. But then I started to long for a family.... Now, many years later I am married with plans to graduate in May and continue on into a residency in Pediatrics. Family still comes first. I love my husband and am completely committed to him and we want to start a family...even in the midst of residency. He is extremely supportive and knows how much I love medicine and is willing to support us.

I had a very good discussion with a Peds Surgeon I worked with...family came first for him to. It comes down to DO YOU LOVE MEDICINE? I LOVE it. No matter how frustrating thing may get, how tired I may be, when I look into the eyes of a patient and interact with them, I truly love what I do. I still want to one day work in Africa. But I still plan on having a family. For more information email me (or if you rather not, PM me).
GOOD Luck on your choice!
 
the prereqs listed above are MINIMUM requirements. that doesn't even guarantee you an interview. many pa programs receive 1000 applications for 100 interviews for 30 seats.
a good friend of mine( an er nurse) with 15 yrs of experience and a 3.5 gpa was told to improve his gpa this yr if he wanted AN INTERVIEW at our local pa program.....

"Most require 1,000-2,000+ hours of "direct patient contact" - which is really not that different from what most pre-meds with siginificant volunteering/shadowing/working experience have (and, if the OP is an MS1, she's probably well on her way towards racking up more contact hours). "-SPOKEN LIKE SOMEONE WHO HAS NO IDEA ABOUT PA SCHOOL ADMISSIONS.....

yeah, right...how many paramedics, rn's, rt's in a typical ms1 class? 1 or 2?
you can't compare a bit of shadowing and volunteering that a typical med student has with the yrs of exprience that an ACCEPTED applicant to a good pa school has....
the AVG student in my pa program was 35 with 10+ yrs as a paramedic/rn/rt.....

FROM A QUALITY PA PROGRAM..

Applicants applying in 2007 must meet or exceed all of these prerequisites:
Clinical Experience:
Minimum of two (2) years of paid, recent, full-time equivalent, hands-on experience in the direct delivery of medical care to patients (approximately 4,000 hours); examples might be LPN, RN, Paramedic, Corpsman,
OR
Current professional credentials and at least two (2) years of paid, recent full-time experience in an allied health field, such as medical technology, X-ray technology, pharmacy, etc. For more information on allied health fields please visit the AMA website at http://www.ama-assn.org/.
Our strongest candidates are those with some experience in direct patient care so; if you are considering a career in an allied health field, please consider a field with direct patient care listed in the job description. If you are already in a field that does not have much direct patient care, volunteer experience is a great way to supplement your 4000+ paid clinical experience hours.
Clinical experience can be calculated up to the October 1st application deadline date. You must have the minimum two years fulltime equivalent experience by that date to be eligible to apply in this admission cycle. Experience must be from paid position(s), not volunteer work with the exception of paramedic and EMT experience when the emergency services are only provided on a volunteer basis. Clinical experience gained through a training program as a student does not count toward satisfying the 4,000+ hour requirement.
We strongly encourage spending time as a volunteer and shadowing a PA as it is valuable experience and adds to an understanding of the PA role in healthcare and expands the understanding of primary care. Again, volunteer experience is a great way to supplement your experience but does not replace any clinical paid time.


OP, this person is clearly fighting with every inch of his being to convince himself that PAs are somehow equivalent to, or better than, MDs. I find this a bit sad. The truth is, people who become PAs do it BECAUSE of the reasons you've mentioned. It's a way to be involved in the medical sciences and to help people, all while having a normal life.

A good friend of mine dropped out of a master's program and got into a very good PA program, with NOT AN OUNCE of experience with medicine or patients. She's 23 years old, and it was a last minute decision for her. She did it precisely because she wants to have children within the next few years, and is very happy with having done it.
 
OP, this person is clearly fighting with every inch of his being to convince himself that PAs are somehow equivalent to, or better than, MDs. I find this a bit sad. The truth is, people who become PAs do it BECAUSE of the reasons you've mentioned. It's a way to be involved in the medical sciences and to help people, all while having a normal life.

A good friend of mine dropped out of a master's program and got into a very good PA program, with NOT AN OUNCE of experience with medicine or patients. She's 23 years old, and it was a last minute decision for her. She did it precisely because she wants to have children within the next few years, and is very happy with having done it.

BE careful, because EMEDPA is the real deal.. For real..
 
A good friend of mine dropped out of a master's program and got into a very good PA program, with NOT AN OUNCE of experience with medicine or patients.

Every PA program I looked into 4 years ago REQUIRED what was essentially a years worth of full time work in the medical field. At that point in time, that was what deterred me from applying to a PA program.
 
's OK lilnoelle....pretty soon you'll be a physician and I'll still be a PA trying to decide if it's worth the opportunity cost to go back to med school. You have a heads up on me on the kid thing too...never have figured out how to fit those in...not entirely sure kids are necessary to me though.
It's not the typical PA program that accepts people with no medical experience. IMO that type of applicant is better suited to traditional medical school. I'm a bit old school on that issue. I myself had nearly four years of full-time experience when I applied to PA school and I was very much at the low end of the spectrum in my class (experience wise that is).
L.

Every PA program I looked into 4 years ago REQUIRED what was essentially a years worth of full time work in the medical field. At that point in time, that was what deterred me from applying to a PA program.
 
Thanks for all the advice thus far.

And yes as many of you have said I have looked at the years of each and actually the PA program I am looking into is going to a 3.5 year program and therefore I would be done with my four years of med school 1/2 year before I would finish PA school.

The real problem comes with residency. I don't think anyone can tell me residency is easy, even if I do pick an "easy" program. Don't get me wrong, I love a challenge, that is one reason why I love med school. For once in my life I am somewhat academically challenged and I love it. However, residency would be when I am 28-32ish, most likely when I not only would like to be a wife during that time I would also like to have kids.

And yes, people say you can have kids during residency. But why, if you are only going to have to put them in day care all day long. Now some people like daycare and I think that is completely fine, but fortunately or unfortunately I grew up with a stay at home mom, and I see myself wanting to be there while my kids are growing up as well. So I guess that is really my biggest concern. The only benefit I see with PA is that during that time I could have children and actually be with them because I would be working rather than in residency.

Oh honey, what crystal ball are you looking in?? You have what my friends and I call "The Timeline Life Plan"...i.e. "I want to be married at 26, first kid at 28, second child at 31, etc." STOP IT. You have no idea what your future holds in the next 4 years, for example, you could fall in love with someone from your class and your long distance relationship could end, or you may get married and have a kid in med school... just saying. Don't assume anything, or make any drastic decisions upon assumptions.

I know plenty of female doctors in all specialties (including surg) that have made time to be a mom and a physician. No one will ever tell you that residency is easy, it's not. PAs work long hours as well, so I hope you are not assuming they work 15-20 hours a week. Even the average nurse pulls 40 hour weeks. You really don't know if you're going to have to put your kids in daycare, or if you will even have to think about that option when the time comes.

No one should make the decision but you, but if having a family and spending time with your future kids trumps all other things you want in your life, then perhaps you need to reevaluate your career options all together, or if you want to work at all.
 
Currently finishing my 2nd year of a "cushy" FP residency. I easily work 70 hours a week and frequently see the 80. As mentioned above, even a 40 hour a week job necessitates day care unless your husband has quite a bit of freedom. I constantly miss my kids.

Don't agree that you should even think about having "taken a spot" in your med school. The entire medical field preys on the anabolized altruism of would-be doctors. The spot is YOURS...you can do whatever you want with it. You earned it.

Also, if you're going to switch, do it right now. Don't think long about it. The longer you stay, the harder it is to leave. Med training is like the mafia. Once you're in, you can't get out without cement boots and a dip in the Mystic.

IMO, if you're really interested in spending more time with family, figure out the cheapest way to get yourself qualified to practice. Never forget this dictum of medical life: Debt determines freedom. If you're in debt, you'll work as much as possible. If you're not in debt, you call the shots.

PA and MD both have their merits. But if what you want - ultimately - is freedom...worry about the debt, not the degree.
 
Very fair and sound advice.
I do agree with the debt argument. Debt sucks. Honestly, it's the biggest thing that deters me from going back to med school: more debt. I'm not sure that I would make enough more as a physician to justify the debt, and I'm already weary of working as much as I do to support our modestly comfortable lifestyle.
She hasn't been active on SDN for a while but there was a woman who attended first year of a DO program and dropped it so she could have a life. She is wrapping up her PA studies now. It can be done. I'm not sure how much time off she had in between leaving medical school and entering PA school though. Her name was Trixie on the PA forum but I think elysium on SDN. You might search her posts. A bit abrasive IMO but she has her reasons and can explain them far better than I could.
Good luck and make the best decision you can, for yourself.
L.

Currently finishing my 2nd year of a "cushy" FP residency. I easily work 70 hours a week and frequently see the 80. As mentioned above, even a 40 hour a week job necessitates day care unless your husband has quite a bit of freedom. I constantly miss my kids.

Don't agree that you should even think about having "taken a spot" in your med school. The entire medical field preys on the anabolized altruism of would-be doctors. The spot is YOURS...you can do whatever you want with it. You earned it.

Also, if you're going to switch, do it right now. Don't think long about it. The longer you stay, the harder it is to leave. Med training is like the mafia. Once you're in, you can't get out without cement boots and a dip in the Mystic.

IMO, if you're really interested in spending more time with family, figure out the cheapest way to get yourself qualified to practice. Never forget this dictum of medical life: Debt determines freedom. If you're in debt, you'll work as much as possible. If you're not in debt, you call the shots.

PA and MD both have their merits. But if what you want - ultimately - is freedom...worry about the debt, not the degree.
 
Considering there are both bacheloreate and masters level PA degrees granted I find the point moot. The competition for each PA program may be stiff because a larger number of individuals strive for the lower level of clinical practice, but the bell curve mean and distribution of academic competency for MD and PA admission do not overlap i.e. it is significantly more difficult to get in to medical school and earn an MD. PA school may select for different, non-academic parameters (hanging out in the hospital), but academically it requires less. Any argument otherwise, especially personal arguments whether or not one could have chosen differently, ignores these facts.
 
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