KHE

Senior Member
10+ Year Member
Jun 14, 2005
3,335
324
Status
Optometrist
I'm becoming more and more concerned each day as I read postings on here from optometry and pre-optometry students complaining about their poor academic performance and trying to deflect the blame onto anything and everyone but themselves. It's gone from being disheartening to being somewhat sickening.

When I taught high school math and science, it was somewhat common for students to take that road to explain away poor performance, as they came up with every excuse in the book.

Common excuses:

"The test was too hard."
"The teacher didn't like me."
"The teacher is a bad teacher."
"I had lacrosse practice."
"My computer crashed."
"We had a power failure at our house."
"My boyfriend/girlfriend dumped me."
"My aunt died." (It's incredible how many aunts/grandparents some people have.

Only the rarest of students stood up and said "Yea, I just didn't study enough, or I just didn't pay enough attention in class, or I just didn't show up to enough class."

I expect some of that out of 14 and 15 year olds, not out of college and optometry students who are desirous of being granted a license to care for the visual health and welfare of the population.

What's even more sad about all this is that not only do so many posters on here try to explain away poor performance with the same limp excuses I heard from my highschoolers, but they also try to justify it, or bring down other students with things like this:

"C students make better doctors anyways."
"I know people with high stats who are unethical."
"Most of the stuff in first year is irrelevant to your career anyways."

Someone on another thread is trying to explain away poor performance in Calc I for the THIRD time by blaming his (multiple) professors and pretty much admitting that they never to go class because "it's a self study course anyways." That's ridiculous.

Another person on another thread claimed that they just "gave up" in their winter semester because they were having some personal problems and got off to a bad start. They then bemoaned the fact that they ended up with a GPA way below 2.0. Wellll.....I'm still not sure what they expected the result of "giving up" was going to be? A hearty pat on the back? A passing grade?

Does anyone want to take a guess as to what the BEST predictor of academic success is in college? I'll give you a hint: It's not your GPA from high school, it's not your SAT scores, it's not the number of hours you spend studying.

It's your ATTENDANCE record.

Where is this attitude coming from that results don't matter, as long as you "try hard" or are "really passionate" or are "nice?"

Let me clue you all in on something.....

RESULTS MATTER, and they MATTER ALOT, not just here but in all of life. I expected my students to perform. If not, they got an F. I expect my staff to perform. If not, they get fired. I expect my associate doctors to perform. If not, they get fired too.

Trying to deflect the blame is NOT a good character trait to have. We have ALL had personal problems in our lives. We have ALL had a bad instructor or two. We have ALL had break ups with boy/girlfriends, and often at bad times. We have ALL had to work jobs. We have all had financial problems. We have all had relatives die.

Life can be a real bitch sometimes, and sometimes it does pile up on you and sometimes it piles up at what seems like the worst possible time but hey....you gotta deal, man!

I know that sometimes people are just looking for a little advice and a little encouragement, and that's fine. We can all help you with that. There's nothing wrong with that but at some point, you have to take the responsibility for what has happened to you and make the adjustments needed. But you have to stop trying to deflect blame away from yourselves. It's petty, and it's wrong.

A personal anecdote...

When I was in my first year of undergraduate, I took a hard biology course that I struggled in. I was NOT doing well. As luck would have it, the final for that course was my LAST final of the exam schedule AND I had three days off before I had to take it. "Perfect, I thought to myself. I'll have a good chance to study."

So, when that time came, I got about 10 pizzas, locked myself in my dorm room and read that thick-*** text book about 50 times. I knew EVERYTHING there was to know about biology. I was ready to ACE that exam and pull out a good grade. I went in to take the test and got my butt whopped mercilessly. Turns out, the instructor asked these teeny tiny picky details out of the class notes, which I did NOT study. So all that effort went to waste, and I actually ended with an F+ on my transcript. (Don't even ask me what the hell an F+ is, but I got one!) Is that fair? Is it right? I don't know, maybe and maybe not. But did I try to blame the teacher, or my classmates, or claim that the (many) students in the course who actually got As didn't deserve them? No. I retook the course and did much better the second time. (by studying class notes)

Where's the perseverance? Where's the dedication? Where's the owning up to your mistakes?

Someone on another thread tried to imply that optometry school is much harder now than when I went. Hardly. I graduated in 2000 and finished my residency in 2001. I have basically been "out of school" for 7 years. I didn't go to school 30 years ago. I know what it's like and I know how hard it can be, and I also know it isn't any more or less difficult now than when I went.

I am really becoming disappointed in what I'm seeing on here.

Many of you are likely going to respond with things like "you don't me" or "I know this person or that person who lied or cheated in this way or that way" or "I know someone who has a 4.0 and they're a jerk" or "I know someone with a 2.8 and they're really nice and it's not fair" etc. etc.

Yea, I know. Life is not fair. Deal with it.

And I'm not posting this to make myself out to be a martyr in any way. I can say with all honesty that I was not the smartest student in college, or optometry school. I had ALL the same personal problems described on here multiple times. (and I do mean ALL of them) And someway, somehow I made it through. AND YOU ALL CAN TOO!

But you gotta smarten up, stand up, and produce. NO MORE EXCUSES. Come on guys, I know you can do it!:thumbup:
 

eyestrain

Member
10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Sep 29, 2005
865
2
South Dakota
Status
Optometrist
Brilliant post and 100% right, as usual. Now, be prepared for the onslaught of students calling you a mean, bitter OD who just wants everyone to fail.
 

Monkee2008

10+ Year Member
Feb 12, 2008
26
0
Status
Pre-Optometry
Great post KHE!

It all comes down to responsibiliity. I am one of those students that didn't do well on my ACT or SAT but could still pull a high GPA in college without withdrawing from classes in a science major. Plus, I worked around 20 hours a week. Attendance is a big part of learning. My ultimate problem was procrastination when it came to the application process. I'm not going to whine about it because now, I gotta deal with it and learn to use my time wisely. Seeing people post about excuses for poor academic performance makes me sick! If you can't deal with undergraduate work, professional school isn't going to be easier. There's no use to make excuses because no one will care. People just need to learn to deal with their problems and take responsibility.
 

itek2OD

10+ Year Member
May 22, 2006
147
1
Canada
Status
Optometrist
Great post again, KHE.

I'd like to add another possible reason why some of these posts are out there. Even though it is seen more in the humanities than in the sciences, it seems grade inflation is taking its toll on profs and students. In fact, I think I've seen it, since I've been in undergrad classes 15 years ago and the past two years. In a way I feel no sympathy - "Deal with it!". But then again, it must be difficult for some to work hard in university when they have never been pushed before, and even feel entitled to higher marks, to boot. As you said, that's too bad. Hopefully ivory towers and high school will find a way to stop grade inflation.

Here are two articles that focus on this topic, particularly comments on the second article:

http://www.thestar.com/News/article/223884

http://www.cbc.ca/news/viewpoint/vp_mallick/20070618.html


I'm not trying to defend any of the whining posts. I just wonder how much of it is due to grade inflation. No matter what, all students have to abide Nike's motto.
 

gochi

10+ Year Member
Nov 24, 2006
1,105
0
I'm becoming more and more concerned each day as I read postings on here from optometry and pre-optometry students complaining about their poor academic performance and trying to deflect the blame onto anything and everyone but themselves. It's gone from being disheartening to being somewhat sickening.

When I taught high school math and science, it was somewhat common for students to take that road to explain away poor performance, as they came up with every excuse in the book.

Common excuses:

"The test was too hard."
"The teacher didn't like me."
"The teacher is a bad teacher."
"I had lacrosse practice."
"My computer crashed."
"We had a power failure at our house."
"My boyfriend/girlfriend dumped me."
"My aunt died." (It's incredible how many aunts/grandparents some people have.

Only the rarest of students stood up and said "Yea, I just didn't study enough, or I just didn't pay enough attention in class, or I just didn't show up to enough class."

I expect some of that out of 14 and 15 year olds, not out of college and optometry students who are desirous of being granted a license to care for the visual health and welfare of the population.

What's even more sad about all this is that not only do so many posters on here try to explain away poor performance with the same limp excuses I heard from my highschoolers, but they also try to justify it, or bring down other students with things like this:

"C students make better doctors anyways."
"I know people with high stats who are unethical."
"Most of the stuff in first year is irrelevant to your career anyways."

Someone on another thread is trying to explain away poor performance in Calc I for the THIRD time by blaming his (multiple) professors and pretty much admitting that they never to go class because "it's a self study course anyways." That's ridiculous.

Another person on another thread claimed that they just "gave up" in their winter semester because they were having some personal problems and got off to a bad start. They then bemoaned the fact that they ended up with a GPA way below 2.0. Wellll.....I'm still not sure what they expected the result of "giving up" was going to be? A hearty pat on the back? A passing grade?

Does anyone want to take a guess as to what the BEST predictor of academic success is in college? I'll give you a hint: It's not your GPA from high school, it's not your SAT scores, it's not the number of hours you spend studying.

It's your ATTENDANCE record.

Where is this attitude coming from that results don't matter, as long as you "try hard" or are "really passionate" or are "nice?"

Let me clue you all in on something.....

RESULTS MATTER, and they MATTER ALOT, not just here but in all of life. I expected my students to perform. If not, they got an F. I expect my staff to perform. If not, they get fired. I expect my associate doctors to perform. If not, they get fired too.

Trying to deflect the blame is NOT a good character trait to have. We have ALL had personal problems in our lives. We have ALL had a bad instructor or two. We have ALL had break ups with boy/girlfriends, and often at bad times. We have ALL had to work jobs. We have all had financial problems. We have all had relatives die.

Life can be a real bitch sometimes, and sometimes it does pile up on you and sometimes it piles up at what seems like the worst possible time but hey....you gotta deal, man!

I know that sometimes people are just looking for a little advice and a little encouragement, and that's fine. We can all help you with that. There's nothing wrong with that but at some point, you have to take the responsibility for what has happened to you and make the adjustments needed. But you have to stop trying to deflect blame away from yourselves. It's petty, and it's wrong.

A personal anecdote...

When I was in my first year of undergraduate, I took a hard biology course that I struggled in. I was NOT doing well. As luck would have it, the final for that course was my LAST final of the exam schedule AND I had three days off before I had to take it. "Perfect, I thought to myself. I'll have a good chance to study."

So, when that time came, I got about 10 pizzas, locked myself in my dorm room and read that thick-*** text book about 50 times. I knew EVERYTHING there was to know about biology. I was ready to ACE that exam and pull out a good grade. I went in to take the test and got my butt whopped mercilessly. Turns out, the instructor asked these teeny tiny picky details out of the class notes, which I did NOT study. So all that effort went to waste, and I actually ended with an F+ on my transcript. (Don't even ask me what the hell an F+ is, but I got one!) Is that fair? Is it right? I don't know, maybe and maybe not. But did I try to blame the teacher, or my classmates, or claim that the (many) students in the course who actually got As didn't deserve them? No. I retook the course and did much better the second time. (by studying class notes)

Where's the perseverance? Where's the dedication? Where's the owning up to your mistakes?

Someone on another thread tried to imply that optometry school is much harder now than when I went. Hardly. I graduated in 2000 and finished my residency in 2001. I have basically been "out of school" for 7 years. I didn't go to school 30 years ago. I know what it's like and I know how hard it can be, and I also know it isn't any more or less difficult now than when I went.

I am really becoming disappointed in what I'm seeing on here.

Many of you are likely going to respond with things like "you don't me" or "I know this person or that person who lied or cheated in this way or that way" or "I know someone who has a 4.0 and they're a jerk" or "I know someone with a 2.8 and they're really nice and it's not fair" etc. etc.

Yea, I know. Life is not fair. Deal with it.

And I'm not posting this to make myself out to be a martyr in any way. I can say with all honesty that I was not the smartest student in college, or optometry school. I had ALL the same personal problems described on here multiple times. (and I do mean ALL of them) And someway, somehow I made it through. AND YOU ALL CAN TOO!

But you gotta smarten up, stand up, and produce. NO MORE EXCUSES. Come on guys, I know you can do it!:thumbup:
What exactly is the point of this post ?
 

eyestrain

Member
10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Sep 29, 2005
865
2
South Dakota
Status
Optometrist
What exactly is the point of this post ?
Have you read some of the threads around here lately? There have been a few people who have gotten themselves into academic trouble, but they blame anything and everything but themselves for it.
 

SarahNC

10+ Year Member
Oct 27, 2007
188
1
Philadelphia, PA
Status
Optometry Student
I believe I just said the same thing last night in another thread.

Honestly, I don't WANT people in my class with such poor academic performance and excuses coming out of the wazoo. WE HAVE ALL HAD OUR OWN PROBLEMS!

Believe me, I just graduated undergrad with a 3.6 GPA, I made it through with decent grades despite having bad professors along the way, despite fighting with my husband, despite my parents getting divorced, despite my father dying, my great-grandfather dying, my husbands grandfather dying, my husbands uncle dying, etc, etc, etc.....

Its like everyone expects a pity party and for people to justify that they feel it was unfair not to be accepted with a <3.0 GPA. I guess I'm being mean, but I don't want to be classmates with most of these people that place blame everywhere but themselves.
 

alferec

Future Army OD
10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
Dec 9, 2004
402
1
Fullerton, CA
www.optstudent.com
Status
Optometry Student
Great post! Reminds me of a saying, maybe not the most PC, but it's pretty much right on:

"Excuses are like rear ends...everybody's got them, and they all stink."
 

gochi

10+ Year Member
Nov 24, 2006
1,105
0
What, exactly, is the point of this post?
Little infant, the point of my post was to ask the original OP why he is telling us common things that we already know.

Anyhow, this whole thread is quite comical; in a bad way of course.
 

gochi

10+ Year Member
Nov 24, 2006
1,105
0
I believe I just said the same thing last night in another thread.

Honestly, I don't WANT people in my class with such poor academic performance and excuses coming out of the wazoo. WE HAVE ALL HAD OUR OWN PROBLEMS!

Believe me, I just graduated undergrad with a 3.6 GPA, I made it through with decent grades despite having bad professors along the way, despite fighting with my husband, despite my parents getting divorced, despite my father dying, my great-grandfather dying, my husbands grandfather dying, my husbands uncle dying, etc, etc, etc.....

Its like everyone expects a pity party and for people to justify that they feel it was unfair not to be accepted with a <3.0 GPA. I guess I'm being mean, but I don't want to be classmates with most of these people that place blame everywhere but themselves.
I'd rather have a bunch of penultimate 2.9'ers in my class, rather then a bunch of scheming 3.6'ers.
 

CanadaODhopeful

10+ Year Member
Mar 23, 2008
17
0
Canada
Status
Pre-Optometry
I think most of this stems from inadequate high schools. Students get away with anything in high school when it comes to academics. If anything goes wrong with a students education when they are in secondary school the teacher or the school is blamed. Rarely do parents blame the children for lack-luster performance. Students constantly see the blame being put on "the system" and not on themselves.

Also many students aren't challenged in high school, unless schools have advanced classes, students are taught so that the weakest students can understand. When students are put in university and they are attending undergrad classes they flail around because they aren't accustomed to taking on academic challenges, they are used to being spoon fed material. When the student doesn't do well, surprise! They blame anyone but themselves!

I am not making any excuses for students not taking responsibility for their own academic successes or failures, but I think it is partially a result of how students are schooled before they enter university. Students need to learn to take responsibility for their academics before they enter university.
 

alferec

Future Army OD
10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
Dec 9, 2004
402
1
Fullerton, CA
www.optstudent.com
Status
Optometry Student
A personal anecdote...

When I was in my first year of undergraduate, I took a hard biology course that I struggled in. I was NOT doing well. As luck would have it, the final for that course was my LAST final of the exam schedule AND I had three days off before I had to take it. "Perfect, I thought to myself. I'll have a good chance to study."

So, when that time came, I got about 10 pizzas, locked myself in my dorm room and read that thick-*** text book about 50 times. I knew EVERYTHING there was to know about biology. I was ready to ACE that exam and pull out a good grade. I went in to take the test and got my butt whopped mercilessly. Turns out, the instructor asked these teeny tiny picky details out of the class notes, which I did NOT study. So all that effort went to waste, and I actually ended with an F+ on my transcript. (Don't even ask me what the hell an F+ is, but I got one!) Is that fair? Is it right? I don't know, maybe and maybe not. But did I try to blame the teacher, or my classmates, or claim that the (many) students in the course who actually got As didn't deserve them? No. I retook the course and did much better the second time. (by studying class notes)
This part of KHE's post reminds me of something else: there is such thing as over-studying. I like to think of sleep/naps, hanging out with friends and family, watching movies/tv, and relaxing as essential parts of studying. I've had my share of studying really hard for an exam and resulting in crap grades...I have a blog post that talks about how too much stress can hurt your performance here.
 

JAZZEYE

10+ Year Member
Jun 3, 2007
206
0
Status
Optometry Student
I'm becoming more and more concerned each day as I read postings on here from optometry and pre-optometry students complaining about their poor academic performance and trying to deflect the blame onto anything and everyone but themselves. It's gone from being disheartening to being somewhat sickening.
Where is the weeding out process ?

These whiney students who complain and blame anything and everyone but themselves are probably the

same people who will be OD's online in a few years complaining and blaming anything and everyone but

themselves because their career isn't where they would like it to be. Very disheartening and sickening.:barf:
 

FL Opt Girl

NSUCO c/o 2012!
10+ Year Member
Mar 5, 2007
57
0
Status
Pre-Optometry
I completely agree. I never went through a day of undergrad when I wasn't fed up with students on a pre-professional track, or even going to college at all, who were not willing to work hard for it. They would always find some way to snag a useful rec letter here and there that might get them into grad school. But in the end, it's going to be the people who show up to class every day, make their studies a priority (and still can have fun, too), and get the high GPA who are the successful ones in their career.
 

daysend85

10+ Year Member
Mar 14, 2007
190
0
Status
Wow, I couldn't help but notice several of your comments came from some of my previous posts. You simply just don't get it KHE. That's all there is to it. You take what I say, sensationalize it, and then chalk it up to "naive OD students, whiny OD students", or something else of the like. The lack of professionalism from you is astounding and somewhat scary. Just because some students are upset with some of their grades and are brave enough to voice it on this forum, doesn't mean that they are whining NOR does it mean that there is a lack of dedication from students. It's posts like yours that really make me wonder how other OD's are. Luckily, I have had experiences with other ODs that are much more helpful and really in check with how things are currently going on in the field. Get encouragement from this forum? I highly doubt it. I would never post any of my troubles on this site because they would just get shot down and I'd probably end up feeling worse. Here's come advice KHE, usually when students say things that you feel are discouraging, they are just venting. So let them vent! Don't freak out about it and create a massive onslaught of students vs. doctors on this forum. And about the grades thing, I'm not even going to respond to that part of your post. You take the littlest thing and blow it way out of proportion. :thumbdown:

I'm becoming more and more concerned each day as I read postings on here from optometry and pre-optometry students complaining about their poor academic performance and trying to deflect the blame onto anything and everyone but themselves. It's gone from being disheartening to being somewhat sickening.

When I taught high school math and science, it was somewhat common for students to take that road to explain away poor performance, as they came up with every excuse in the book.

Common excuses:

"The test was too hard."
"The teacher didn't like me."
"The teacher is a bad teacher."
"I had lacrosse practice."
"My computer crashed."
"We had a power failure at our house."
"My boyfriend/girlfriend dumped me."
"My aunt died." (It's incredible how many aunts/grandparents some people have.

Only the rarest of students stood up and said "Yea, I just didn't study enough, or I just didn't pay enough attention in class, or I just didn't show up to enough class."

I expect some of that out of 14 and 15 year olds, not out of college and optometry students who are desirous of being granted a license to care for the visual health and welfare of the population.

What's even more sad about all this is that not only do so many posters on here try to explain away poor performance with the same limp excuses I heard from my highschoolers, but they also try to justify it, or bring down other students with things like this:

"C students make better doctors anyways."
"I know people with high stats who are unethical."
"Most of the stuff in first year is irrelevant to your career anyways."

Someone on another thread is trying to explain away poor performance in Calc I for the THIRD time by blaming his (multiple) professors and pretty much admitting that they never to go class because "it's a self study course anyways." That's ridiculous.

Another person on another thread claimed that they just "gave up" in their winter semester because they were having some personal problems and got off to a bad start. They then bemoaned the fact that they ended up with a GPA way below 2.0. Wellll.....I'm still not sure what they expected the result of "giving up" was going to be? A hearty pat on the back? A passing grade?

Does anyone want to take a guess as to what the BEST predictor of academic success is in college? I'll give you a hint: It's not your GPA from high school, it's not your SAT scores, it's not the number of hours you spend studying.

It's your ATTENDANCE record.

Where is this attitude coming from that results don't matter, as long as you "try hard" or are "really passionate" or are "nice?"

Let me clue you all in on something.....

RESULTS MATTER, and they MATTER ALOT, not just here but in all of life. I expected my students to perform. If not, they got an F. I expect my staff to perform. If not, they get fired. I expect my associate doctors to perform. If not, they get fired too.

Trying to deflect the blame is NOT a good character trait to have. We have ALL had personal problems in our lives. We have ALL had a bad instructor or two. We have ALL had break ups with boy/girlfriends, and often at bad times. We have ALL had to work jobs. We have all had financial problems. We have all had relatives die.

Life can be a real bitch sometimes, and sometimes it does pile up on you and sometimes it piles up at what seems like the worst possible time but hey....you gotta deal, man!

I know that sometimes people are just looking for a little advice and a little encouragement, and that's fine. We can all help you with that. There's nothing wrong with that but at some point, you have to take the responsibility for what has happened to you and make the adjustments needed. But you have to stop trying to deflect blame away from yourselves. It's petty, and it's wrong.

A personal anecdote...

When I was in my first year of undergraduate, I took a hard biology course that I struggled in. I was NOT doing well. As luck would have it, the final for that course was my LAST final of the exam schedule AND I had three days off before I had to take it. "Perfect, I thought to myself. I'll have a good chance to study."

So, when that time came, I got about 10 pizzas, locked myself in my dorm room and read that thick-*** text book about 50 times. I knew EVERYTHING there was to know about biology. I was ready to ACE that exam and pull out a good grade. I went in to take the test and got my butt whopped mercilessly. Turns out, the instructor asked these teeny tiny picky details out of the class notes, which I did NOT study. So all that effort went to waste, and I actually ended with an F+ on my transcript. (Don't even ask me what the hell an F+ is, but I got one!) Is that fair? Is it right? I don't know, maybe and maybe not. But did I try to blame the teacher, or my classmates, or claim that the (many) students in the course who actually got As didn't deserve them? No. I retook the course and did much better the second time. (by studying class notes)

Where's the perseverance? Where's the dedication? Where's the owning up to your mistakes?

Someone on another thread tried to imply that optometry school is much harder now than when I went. Hardly. I graduated in 2000 and finished my residency in 2001. I have basically been "out of school" for 7 years. I didn't go to school 30 years ago. I know what it's like and I know how hard it can be, and I also know it isn't any more or less difficult now than when I went.

I am really becoming disappointed in what I'm seeing on here.

Many of you are likely going to respond with things like "you don't me" or "I know this person or that person who lied or cheated in this way or that way" or "I know someone who has a 4.0 and they're a jerk" or "I know someone with a 2.8 and they're really nice and it's not fair" etc. etc.

Yea, I know. Life is not fair. Deal with it.

And I'm not posting this to make myself out to be a martyr in any way. I can say with all honesty that I was not the smartest student in college, or optometry school. I had ALL the same personal problems described on here multiple times. (and I do mean ALL of them) And someway, somehow I made it through. AND YOU ALL CAN TOO!

But you gotta smarten up, stand up, and produce. NO MORE EXCUSES. Come on guys, I know you can do it!:thumbup:
 

eyestrain

Member
10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Sep 29, 2005
865
2
South Dakota
Status
Optometrist
Just because some students are upset with some of their grades and are brave enough to voice it on this forum, doesn't mean that they are whining NOR does it mean that there is a lack of dedication from students.
Being upset with your grades is one thing, the problem is that there are too many students here who blame anything and everything but themselves for those grades. If you get bad grades, it's YOUR fault, plain and simple. KHE and I are just sick of all the excuses and sob stories on this forum. Take a little responsibility for your actions.
 
OP
K

KHE

Senior Member
10+ Year Member
Jun 14, 2005
3,335
324
Status
Optometrist
Wow, I couldn't help but notice several of your comments came from some of my previous posts. You simply just don't get it KHE. That's all there is to it. You take what I say, sensationalize it, and then chalk it up to "naive OD students, whiny OD students", or something else of the like. The lack of professionalism from you is astounding and somewhat scary. Just because some students are upset with some of their grades and are brave enough to voice it on this forum, doesn't mean that they are whining NOR does it mean that there is a lack of dedication from students. It's posts like yours that really make me wonder how other OD's are. Luckily, I have had experiences with other ODs that are much more helpful and really in check with how things are currently going on in the field. Get encouragement from this forum? I highly doubt it. I would never post any of my troubles on this site because they would just get shot down and I'd probably end up feeling worse. Here's come advice KHE, usually when students say things that you feel are discouraging, they are just venting. So let them vent! Don't freak out about it and create a massive onslaught of students vs. doctors on this forum. And about the grades thing, I'm not even going to respond to that part of your post. You take the littlest thing and blow it way out of proportion. :thumbdown:
I have no idea who it was who made these postings I referenced, but I can assure you that I "get it." After 3 years of teaching high school, a year of teaching optometry students and having gone through the entire educational cycle myself, you can rest assured that I "get it."

And what I get is that a significant and increasing number of people on here, (and in high school) are blaming anything and everything but themselves for their poor performance. This is not a good trait to have.

No one is going to begrudge anyone from venting after a poor showing. I've had my share of poor showings in the past as well, and I vented many times. Rest assured, I "get that" too. But almost universally, my poor showings were the result of ME, not from a "bad teacher" or an "unfair test" or any of that other crap. So people really need to stop with those kinds of excuses because while they might make you feel a tad better for 10 minutes, in the long run they get you NO WHERE!

Unfortunately, there is also a significant number of people on here who also have this idea that performance and results don't matter so long as you have "passion" or are "nice" or you "are really dedicated to being an OD." Too many people think that there should be no standards set because academic performance doesn't matter.....being nice does.

There have been people on here who have posted in the past that they have poor grades from college because they goofed off, but now they really want to go to optometry school. There's nothing wrong with that! Millions of people have struggled in college due to lack of maturity, or whatever and I'm happy to provide any encouragement I can, PROVIDED THAT the person acknowledges that their poor performance was their fault and that they are ready to turn over a new leaf, rather than continue to blame circumstances.

The lame ones are the ones that moan about poor performance because the teacher didn't like them, or their boyfriend dumped them, or their grandma died and that schools should just admit them anyways because they're really passionate. Let's not have any of that claptrap, ok?

I don't know what constitutes professionalism in your mind, or why I'm lacking in it and I'm glad that you have found mentors you are comfortable with but understand that sometimes, laying it on the line is what's needed, not a pile of sugarcoating.
 

4Eyes

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Generally speaking, I agree with what's been said here. But it's dangerous to forget that there are those rare instances where someone did die, the test was poorly written, etc.
 

eyestrain

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Generally speaking, I agree with what's been said here. But it's dangerous to forget that there are those rare instances where someone did die, the test was poorly written, etc.
What is the deal with people contradicting themselves? The point is that everyone deals with problems. You either overcome them or you don't. A few just choose to blame their circumstances for their grades, like they're the only ones who have to deal with anything while in school.
 

4Eyes

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What is the deal with people contradicting themselves? The point is that everyone deals with problems. You either overcome them or you don't. A few just choose to blame their circumstances for their grades, like they're the only ones who have to deal with anything while in school.
Let me clarify. It's not contradictory. Yes, everyone deals with problems. Some people overcome them, some don't. Some throw it around for special treatment, some don't. Of course it's obnoxious when people abuse it...and worse when people make stuff up or embellish in a pathetic attempt to cover for their own poor choices.

I had no problem with the original post. I see what he's getting at, and I agree with him. However, the way the thread went, I just threw in my .02.

Here's what came to mind when I made my first post. When my mom was in college, her grandmother ACTUALLY DID die. Before she left for the funeral, she went to the college and told them what was going on because she was going to miss a couple of days of lecture. Instead of just letting it go, the person made some snarky comment, implying that she didn't believe my mom's story--she thought my mom just wanted the time off. My mom was too stunned to even cry. My mom stayed up on her coursework and got on with her life.

Story #2. I hesitate even sharing this one because I don't want to sound like I'm a whiny one. One of my classes in optometry school was kind of "interesting." There was one A, five got a B, 20% of the class failed, and the rest got a C. Of those that failed (I was not one of them), many were dean's list/BSK types. I can guarantee you that every single one of us busted our tails for that class. If a few people in the class did poorly, that would be one thing. When pretty much everyone does poorly--I think that reflects something on the class or instructor. Was it frustrating? Absolutely. But we learned what we could from it and moved on. I don't expect a grade to come up in anyone's job interview, but I would hope that people would have the good grace not to say anything foolish if it did.

It's kind of crappy when people assume that people are always lying about deaths in the family...or a person with an isolated poor grade is either lazy or incompetent. I don't think that's what most people want to address here, but it seemed like some posts were going that direction, whether it was intended or not. It's the people who carry on about it, want special treatment, or use something as an excuse when poor choices are to blame.
 

ToePUG

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Dec 12, 2007
26
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I'm becoming more and more concerned each day as I read postings on here from optometry and pre-optometry students complaining about their poor academic performance and trying to deflect the blame onto anything and everyone but themselves. It's gone from being disheartening to being somewhat sickening.
I'm becoming more and more concerned each day as I read postings on here from two optometrists who seems to have WAY too much time on their hands and trying to find something wrong with anything and everyone but themselves. It's gone from being mildy entertaining to nauseating.
 
OP
K

KHE

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Jun 14, 2005
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I'm becoming more and more concerned each day as I read postings on here from two optometrists who seems to have WAY too much time on their hands and trying to find something wrong with anything and everyone but themselves. It's gone from being mildy entertaining to nauseating.
Rest assured, I have about 1000 better things to do with my day and practice than to post on here.

The reason that I do is that I was asked to be a mentor of some kind so I agreed. To me, part of that responsibility is to not only check in daily but to also give the good, but also the bad and the ugly. If you want a cheerleader who's just going to pat everyone on the back no matter how ridiculous their postings are, then that is fine but it's not going to be me.

I'm not here to interject my personal views or opinions on anyone, but rather to give you the perspective of someone who has pretty much worked in every environment, been screwed over many times, had every up and down, and finally found my way to owning a large successful practice making a multi six figure income, which I'm sure is what you all are desiring to do. I've tried my hardest to provide as balanced a view as possible about the profession.

Everyone.....just let me know either in public or via PM and if you would prefer that I sign off and I will gladly comply with whatever you all wish.
 

eyepoker

10+ Year Member
Jan 29, 2008
115
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No, please don't sign off, otherwise we wouldn't have someone to share the valuable experiences.

Sometimes the best medicine is the one that taste the worst, and sometimes advises from people are going to be rough, but sugar-coat everything isn't going to solve the situation.

I have been in tough situations before, but I see them as challenges, and if I overcome those bad situations, I will be stronger and more well prepared for whatever comes next.:)
 

Framecontrol

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Aug 1, 2007
158
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KHE,

Once again coming through with the absolute FIRE!
Straight up wisdom!

I couldn't agree more and I stand by your side fully on this one.

-Matt
 

DrRobs

10+ Year Member
Jan 11, 2008
164
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Optometry Student
Sure people could be "saying things wrong", but the fact is, and the point is, there are a lot of whiners around here. It seems to me that there is a lot of people who want to rely on this forum for people to tell them things they are too afraid to figure out on their own. Most of the concerns can be solved by CALLING the school you applied to and asking them. If you are wondering why you don't have an interview yet and you applied late or your gpa and OAT scores are weak, call the school they will look at your file off the bat and reccomend something...speaking to an admissions counselor, taking another class, ect. The schools are not shy so why not pick up the phone and call them and then do what you have to instead of whining you can't take another class because you work 50+ hours a week because you had to do blah blah blah and graduate but you're getting a low grade in one of your pre-reqs. Well instead of whining about it why dont you do what they say off the bat and take a summer class or whatever it is that is lacking in your file. Take out more loans if you have to work to pay your way so you can work less. There's things YOU can do and people online don't have access to your personal "woes", the schools you applied to do...and they tell you.

Or even the posts that are like "what gpa and OAT score do I need, I got a 260 on my practice test but my gpa is a 3.5 what are the averege scores?" well look them up yourself! Research the schools you are applying to BEFORE you apply and do what you can while you're still in school to improve yourself!
The best help you are going to get is how you help yourself.

Someone posted something about high schools giving handouts and I totally agree with this. There are TONS of students who come to college thinking they are going to get the same thing, and some of them do. Some of them have high GPA's, some don't. Thats where the OAT comes in. So you may have a 3.5 but you scored a 320 on ur OATs with scores below a 300 in one or more categories...thats why ur not getting an interview!!! You aren't going to look better whining on here getting advice, and if the school says retake the OAT, do it as early as you can, make it a priorty! if you applied early enough and your improved scores are good enough, maybe you'll be reconsidered before the process is over.

Honestly, if you can't learn how to do things for yourself and you rely on others on some internet forum, then why apply to optometry school? You're not going to survive because things arent going to be handed to you, if you made mistakes, then fix them yourself, if you cant figure things out on your own how are you ever going to diagnose someone properly when you are in practice and someone's well being depends on you making an affirmative decision? Unless you take the cop out route of referring every patient that isn't "easy" to someone else.

KHE, your point is well stated and it was about time someone posted something like this. I haven't even started school myself, but I made sure my "flaws" were fixed and I knew there was a chance I could not get into school, my GPA wasn't great, but u know what, I took a year off and worked in an ODs office full time, took a class that I don't even need to submit the grade for because I was told I should, and I studied my a** off to make sure I did well on my OATs. I researched and called schools on my own...I did not start posting on here until I knew my hard work paid off and I could be an example for students like me. Honestly the majority of people who send me messages when I say "if you want to know my experience" its sickening how many people give me lame a** excuses of "why they cant take the oats" or "why they can't take another class". You can do what you're willing to do...and if you're not willing to do whatever it takes then you shouldn't be in any professional school.
 

DrRobs

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Jan 11, 2008
164
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Furthermore, why do people come on here and ask "is optometry school easy?" Those posts reallly grind my gears...no professional school is easy!! Why does it seem optometry can pick up all the "leftovers" why do they think optometry is easy? Optometry should be bringing in students who don't want to see easy refractions all day and referring to opthamologists for every little thing that they don't want to treat...we need more people who want to put work in to treat gluacoma, medical diagnoses in general, even strabismus problems, instead of relying on the surgeons to just "fix everything". They fix surgical cases, which sometimes aren't even needed if they had the right optometrist...
 

Penguin2012

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Apr 13, 2008
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Don't go anywhere Khe. I appreciate your insight. I think the vast majority of people will agree that taking responsibility for one's own performance is most logical and constructive.
 

JAZZEYE

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Jun 3, 2007
206
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Everyone.....just let me know either in public or via PM and if you would prefer that I sign off and I will gladly comply with whatever you all wish.
KHE,
Your contribution to this forum has been extrodinarily generous and valuable .....thank you ! :bow:
The student who was so upset by your comments sounds a little paranoid and very disrespectful.
 

FL Opt Girl

NSUCO c/o 2012!
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Mar 5, 2007
57
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Pre-Optometry
Furthermore, why do people come on here and ask "is optometry school easy?" Those posts reallly grind my gears...no professional school is easy!! Why does it seem optometry can pick up all the "leftovers" why do they think optometry is easy? Optometry should be bringing in students who don't want to see easy refractions all day and referring to opthamologists for every little thing that they don't want to treat...we need more people who want to put work in to treat gluacoma, medical diagnoses in general, even strabismus problems, instead of relying on the surgeons to just "fix everything". They fix surgical cases, which sometimes aren't even needed if they had the right optometrist...
I totally agree. That is the only way the optometry profession is going to be advanced in a positive direction.;)
 

Ninster

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Apr 18, 2008
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Oh Canada
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What is the deal with people contradicting themselves? The point is that everyone deals with problems. You either overcome them or you don't. A few just choose to blame their circumstances for their grades, like they're the only ones who have to deal with anything while in school.
I just came to check this forum out and found this. Just wanted to say I do agree but you should keep in mind that not everyone can deal with stress/problems the same way as you can - and some people DO have bad professors who favour certain students. I have profs like that too - still I mean I don't go on complaining about it, I just try to work even harder but just saying that you can't just ignore all that. Why are we hatin' on here?
 

eyestrain

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Just wanted to say I do agree but you should keep in mind that not everyone can deal with stress/problems the same way as you can
That's pretty much the point. If people can't deal with their problems and perform at a high level, they shouldn't be getting into optometry school.
 

seminolefish

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May 1, 2008
138
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Gainesville
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Rehab Sci Student
It all comes down to, can you do it under pressure? That is what you must live for to succeed in optometry school it seems. You must love the challenge; for me it makes life exciting. I just think of myself as an athlete in a competition except I'm mentally preparing and performing at my highest level not physically preparing and performing.