IMF on CHina

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Enh. What a bunch of silly hyperbole. The reason "nobody noticed" this bombshell is that it's not really a bombshell at all. The GDP of a nation with 3x as many people as us is poised to overtake ours? Golly, what took them so long?

China's got issues. The demographic implosion brewing over there is going to be one hell of a spectacle. Their local & provincial governments are awash in debt and corruption that puts US states to shame (though in all honesty an important difference is that THEIR central government can actually afford the inevitable bailouts). Inflation is out of control there, their real estate bubble is in full swing, and oh yeah, it's a totalitarian communist repressive place where independent thought and innovation are shunned.

I'm afraid of what we have done and are doing to ourselves, not what China might do to us. They're not sprinting past us; they're creeping past in a rusty wheelchair because we put our crotchrocket motorcycle into the wall.
 
I mean does anyone really care? I certainly do not. I would rather be a Canada or an Australia. Let China become the world's guardian and see how easy it is. Let them worry about everyone in the world constant criticism for their policies. Let China deal with terrorists hell bent on destroying whichever country is in power. Who wouldnt want to be the next Canada but with better weather? So we are no longer number one economy in the world? Well what China is going to learn fast is that being number one has a vast array of implications which also entails being the welfare guardian of a number of countries.
 
I thought the article raised some good points. Economic power leads to leverage, either indirectly by being able to afford a strong military or directly through how you spend your dollars or yuan or rupees. Strength is relative. The relative amount of clout we have in the world is declining as other countries embrace capitalism and copy what has worked for us. We are still number one, but the rest of the world is gaining. The trend shows no sign of reversing soon.
 
Maybe we should just put the competitive mentality aside and really look at what they did in the past 30 years. Communist or not, they are able to turn a country that was used to be one of the poorest country in the region into a world power. I recently visited there, I was impressed how hard the people work there. They take any opportunity to work, to make a living. On the highway I saw people watering the flowers along the road. In the subway station I saw people cleaning the wall and floor. Granted, they probably don't make a lot of money that way, but they are at least doing something. That country does not have a very sophisticated welfare system like we have here in US, maybe it is not a bad thing. I don't know😕
 
mdage said:
Maybe we should just put the competitive mentality aside and really look at what they did in the past 30 years. Communist or not, they are able to turn a country that was used to be one of the poorest country in the region into a world power. I recently visited there, I was impressed how hard the people work there. They take any opportunity to work, to make a living. On the highway I saw people watering the flowers along the road. In the subway station I saw people cleaning the wall and floor. Granted, they probably don't make a lot of money that way, but they are at least doing something. That country does not have a very sophisticated welfare system like we have here in US, maybe it is not a bad thing. I don't know😕
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Its their own form of welfare, you get a check (even if its from taxpayers) you get your ***** in gear and you work, do something anything, make my drive into work nicer because I get to look at flowers on the drab highway, hey I mean I wouldnt even complain about my tax money going to support your lazy *****. All these people with disabilities, they probably would like to work, why dont they do something that doesnt involve much lifting or whatever? I mean something anything. Just giving away our hard earned tax dollars makes anyone who actually produces something on a daily basis and has worked their ***** off to get to where they are a lot less bitter.
 
pgg said:
Enh. What a bunch of silly hyperbole. The reason "nobody noticed" this bombshell is that it's not really a bombshell at all. The GDP of a nation with 3x as many people as us is poised to overtake ours? Golly, what took them so long?

China's got issues. The demographic implosion brewing over there is going to be one hell of a spectacle. Their local & provincial governments are awash in debt and corruption that puts US states to shame (though in all honesty an important difference is that THEIR central government can actually afford the inevitable bailouts). Inflation is out of control there, their real estate bubble is in full swing, and oh yeah, it's a totalitarian communist repressive place where independent thought and innovation are shunned.

I'm afraid of what we have done and are doing to ourselves, not what China might do to us. They're not sprinting past us; they're creeping past in a rusty wheelchair because we put our crotchrocket motorcycle into the wall.
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hahahahahhaha. 30 some years is long? US has been around for 200ish or so, since its true birth at 1776. so 1/6 the time isn't really long(thats probably younger than you are my dear Doctor). now of course i am counting 30 after the death of the first president, Mao, he was great at uniting the Chinese people, although his economical policies sucked. so when the second president came around, Deng, at 1979, they were truly free to grow. up to now, its only 30 something years. they went from the bottom of the GDP pole, to #2 in 30 years, thats a feat. lol give them another 30, they will easily take #1 in GDP per capita as well and the US did be lucky to keep #2 assuming India or japan doest get dragged along for the ride from the booming, or rather i should say, recovery of china.

btw if you are wondering why i said recovery, its because china has been the center of Asia(except for Genghis khan lol) for a very long time, which is why they were able to collect tributes from every one around them. its only really in the past few hundreds years out of the few thousand years of their history that they seem to have fell asleep, probably out of boredom. now i forgot(i totally know who lol) which genius it was to make up the "open door" policy, but hey, China thank you, for waking it up.

oh oh and they are not called presidents, they are called the chairman of the CPC. i just found that out on wiki lol.

people have predicated china will "crash and burn" due to various issues for a long time, yet nothing has happens except for economical growth this world has never seen, its laughable that people would watch a few news program and think they know anything about China.
 
Cleavername said:
hahahahahhaha. 30 some years is long? US has been around for 200ish or so, since its true birth at 1776. so 1/6 the time isn't really long(thats probably younger than you are my dear Doctor). now of course i am counting 30 after the death of the first president, Mao, he was great at uniting the Chinese people, although his economical policies sucked. so when the second president came around, Deng, at 1979, they were truly free to grow. up to now, its only 30 something years. they went from the bottom of the GDP pole, to #2 in 30 years, thats a feat. lol give them another 30, they will easily take #1 in GDP per capita as well and the US did be lucky to keep #2 assuming India or japan doest get dragged along for the ride from the booming, or rather i should say, recovery of china.

btw if you are wondering why i said recovery, its because china has been the center of Asia(except for Genghis khan lol) for a very long time, which is why they were able to collect tributes from every one around them. its only really in the past few hundreds years out of the few thousand years of their history that they seem to have fell asleep, probably out of boredom. now i forgot(i totally know who lol) which genius it was to make up the "open door" policy, but hey, China thank you, for waking it up.

oh oh and they are not called presidents, they are called the chairman of the CPC. i just found that out on wiki lol.

people have predicated china will "crash and burn" due to various issues for a long time, yet nothing has happens except for economical growth this world has never seen, its laughable that people would watch a few news program and think they know anything about China.
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A lot of pomp. Great so now that we know how great China is, when can the terrorists start blaming them for all the worlds problems? The reason the US economy has slowed and Chinas has blossomed is because the US has to be the prinicipal of the world, whereas China just has to point its finger, and say to the rest of the world, look how the US has fked up, meanwhile China opens its imperialistic wings with reckless abandon in middleast, asia, and africa. So, now let China heavily invest in its military complex, and go into senseless country stabilization wars in order to keep the world stable.
 
But unfortunately China can't hang with the big dogs in the modern era. I have a feeling China still has the mindset of 50 years ago and will let it's ego win over it's intellect. Which means, China is going to warfare for world domination because it believes it has the ideology (communism) that is meant to rule the world. I have little to no faith in China. Sweatshops and global Censhorship does not make you a world power it makes you the world fool
 
Cleavername said:
hahahahahhaha. 30 some years is long? US has been around for 200ish or so, since its true birth at 1776. so 1/6 the time isn't really long(thats probably younger than you are my dear Doctor). now of course i am counting 30 after the death of the first president, Mao, he was great at uniting the Chinese people, although his economical policies sucked. so when the second president came around, Deng, at 1979, they were truly free to grow. up to now, its only 30 something years. they went from the bottom of the GDP pole, to #2 in 30 years, thats a feat. lol give them another 30, they will easily take #1 in GDP per capita as well and the US did be lucky to keep #2 assuming India or japan doest get dragged along for the ride from the booming, or rather i should say, recovery of china.

btw if you are wondering why i said recovery, its because china has been the cenuter of Asia(except for Genghis khan lol) for a very long time, which is why they were able to collect tributes from every one around them. its only really in the past few hundreds years out of the few thousand years of their history that they seem to have fell asleep, probably out of boredom. now i forgot(i totally know who lol) which genius it was to make up the "open door" policy, but hey, China thank you, for waking it up.

oh oh and they are not called presidents, they are called the chairman of the CPC. i just found that out on wiki lol.

people have predicated china will "crash and burn" due to various issues for a long time, yet nothing has happens except for economical growth this world has never seen, its laughable that people would watch a few news program and think they know anything about China.
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Downtown in cities of 10 million in China, you can go to restaurants where you have to poop in a hole in the dirt floor, and starving people sell tortured, starving animals for food in the street. Having the most poor people makes for high gdp, but life still sucks for most people in china. They may be afraid to talk about it or may just be used to it. It's typical of 'communists' to live in luxury while the people the supposedly are working for live in poverty.
 
GypsySongman said:
Downtown in cities of 10 million in China, you can go to restaurants where you have to poop in a hole in the dirt floor, and starving people sell tortured, starving animals for food in the street. Having the most poor people makes for high gdp, but life still sucks for most people in china. They may be afraid to talk about it or may just be used to it. It's typical of 'communists' to live in luxury while the people the supposedly are working for live in poverty.
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Doesn't mean they won't win. Barbarians sacked Rome.
 
GypsySongman said:
Downtown in cities of 10 million in China, you can go to restaurants where you have to poop in a hole in the dirt floor, and starving people sell tortured, starving animals for food in the street. Having the most poor people makes for high gdp, but life still sucks for most people in china. They may be afraid to talk about it or may just be used to it. It's typical of 'communists' to live in luxury while the people the supposedly are working for live in poverty.
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Unfortunately the bolded may actually be better for you. :laugh:

Link.
 
dr doze said:
Doesn't mean they won't win. Barbarians sacked Rome.
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win

atkinsje said:
Unfortunately the bolded may actually be better for you. :laugh:

Link.
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i like u sir, this is also a win

MeaCulpa said:
But unfortunately China can't hang with the big dogs in the modern era. I have a feeling China still has the mindset of 50 years ago and will let it's ego win over it's intellect. Which means, China is going to warfare for world domination because it believes it has the ideology (communism) that is meant to rule the world. I have little to no faith in China. Sweatshops and global Censhorship does not make you a world power it makes you the world fool
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so many things wrong with this post i dont even....
 
dr doze said:
Doesn't mean they won't win. Barbarians sacked Rome.
Click to expand...

Interestingly enough, Rome had to fall from within (hooray for bread & circus) before it was possible for the barbarians to do any sacking.

The same thing's happening here. We're making ourselves poor. It's not China out-maneuvering, out-producing, out-innovating, out-thinking, out-smarting, or out-anything'ing us. There's no inevitable decline as China "naturally" ascends to its rightful place at the top.


And who says we can't remain a powerful, influential, stable first-world nation with security and a high standard of living, even if another nation eclipses our GDP? We've still got a massive GDP, culture of entrepreneurial innovation and freedom, and a few thousand nuclear weapons. It's not like the Chinese are going to invade or sail across the Pacific and drop anchor babies in California.


Cleavername -

Are you Chinese?

Believe what you want. China is a billion poverty-stricken mostly-uneducated people living in mud huts, skidding through ongoing environmental disasters of their own making, getting crushed by the iron boot of their communist overlords. Their pet capitalists have succeeded in creating financial and real estate bubbles to rival the ones we made. Their economic growth has been on the back of cheap labor manufacturing, but they have actually invented virtually nothing and their labor force is careening toward a demographic crash - what an irony it'll be to see them outsourcing labor to SE asia and India. When China's one-child-policy cuts the cheap labor force out at the knees ... what are they going to do? For all China's tigerishness and blah blah blah Ghenghis Khan blah blah blah, they've got ISSUES and what they're doing is every bit as unsustainable as what we're doing.

And frankly, as screwed up as our ISSUES are, I'd rather be an American living in the United States.


IMO, people who are afraid of China need to take a real deep breath and a step back. The whole world is in trouble as unsustainable habits are coming to a head. Picking a "winner" at this point, let alone picking China as that "winner" just blows my mind.
 
pgg said:
Interestingly enough, Rome had to fall from within (hooray for bread & circus) before it was possible for the barbarians to do any sacking.

The same thing's happening here. We're making ourselves poor. It's not China out-maneuvering, out-producing, out-innovating, out-thinking, out-smarting, or out-anything'ing us. There's no inevitable decline as China "naturally" ascends to its rightful place at the top.
Click to expand...

Mostly Agree. They do outwork us though. We have gotten soft. They haven't. We no longer cherish education the way we once did. They still do. And it is becoming more available throughout the world. We are in decline (our own fault) and they are on the rise, granted they are starting way low and have a long way to go, but the trend has been unfavorable for a long time.
 
dr doze said:
Mostly Agree. They do outwork us though. We have gotten soft. They haven't. We no longer cherish education the way we once did. They still do. And it is becoming more available throughout the world. We are in decline (our own fault) and they are on the rise, granted they are starting way low and have a long way to go, but the trend has been unfavorable for a long time.
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Really? We have gotten soft? I am no numbers junky but wasn't there a study that showed amongst industrialized nations Americans work by far on average the most? Seeing how most innovation has it's roots in the US why would you think that we are a dumb country? People always say, well 50 years ago we were vastly more intelligent. I disagree on a psychological and emotional level I feel like American society has evolved like no other. 50 years ago there were so many racists, sexists, and people were dripping acid and smoking weed like nuts, and entire generation smoking dope and that had a cultural impact that had it's definite benefits and detriments. But to say that we all are getting lazier and dumber I don't agree.
 
pgg said:
Interestingly enough, Rome had to fall from within (hooray for bread & circus) before it was possible for the barbarians to do any sacking.

The same thing's happening here. We're making ourselves poor. It's not China out-maneuvering, out-producing, out-innovating, out-thinking, out-smarting, or out-anything'ing us. There's no inevitable decline as China "naturally" ascends to its rightful place at the top.


And who says we can't remain a powerful, influential, stable first-world nation with security and a high standard of living, even if another nation eclipses our GDP? We've still got a massive GDP, culture of entrepreneurial innovation and freedom, and a few thousand nuclear weapons. It's not like the Chinese are going to invade or sail across the Pacific and drop anchor babies in California.


Cleavername -

Are you Chinese?

Believe what you want. China is a billion poverty-stricken mostly-uneducated people living in mud huts, skidding through ongoing environmental disasters of their own making, getting crushed by the iron boot of their communist overlords. Their pet capitalists have succeeded in creating financial and real estate bubbles to rival the ones we made. Their economic growth has been on the back of cheap labor manufacturing, but they have actually invented virtually nothing and their labor force is careening toward a demographic crash - what an irony it'll be to see them outsourcing labor to SE asia and India. When China's one-child-policy cuts the cheap labor force out at the knees ... what are they going to do? For all China's tigerishness and blah blah blah Ghenghis Khan blah blah blah, they've got ISSUES and what they're doing is every bit as unsustainable as what we're doing.

And frankly, as screwed up as our ISSUES are, I'd rather be an American living in the United States.


IMO, people who are afraid of China need to take a real deep breath and a step back. The whole world is in trouble as unsustainable habits are coming to a head. Picking a "winner" at this point, let alone picking China as that "winner" just blows my mind.
Click to expand...

heh yes i am chinese.

i don't expect to convince you that they are the "winner", i don't even know what that means. they aren't the winners now, but i know, they will be, soon enough, its very hard to convince any american that their beloved country is going down and some one else who use to make their nikes is going to replace them, but i know it will. its like comparing 2 equations, 20x versus 5x + 100. its going to take some time for EQ #1 to catch up, but shouldn't be long for #1 to leave #2 in the dust. set your vision far and you should see it.

some one else take the #1 status is better for the states since then it can relax and focus more on recovering its economy.

good use of imagery in your paragraph about the life of some of the people in china. however, remind me tho, what country didn't go thro that phase before they achieve their full potential and the high point of their power? may i suggest some reading materials on this? the jungle? any book on the British industrial revolution and such and such lol.

can't you just feel the presence of mah pride🙂?
 
pgg said:
Interestingly enough, Rome had to fall from within (hooray for bread & circus) before it was possible for the barbarians to do any sacking.

The same thing's happening here. We're making ourselves poor.
Click to expand...

Funny you say that. 2 quarters ago I was taking western civilization, which was essentially about 2500ish BC to about 1300ish AD.. During my reading of the fall of the Roman Empire, I felt like I was reading a newspaper about current events..
 
Cleavername said:
heh yes i am chinese.

i don't expect to convince you that they are the "winner", i don't even know what that means. they aren't the winners now, but i know, they will be, soon enough, its very hard to convince any american that their beloved country is going down and some one else who use to make their nikes is going to replace them, but i know it will. its like comparing 2 equations, 20x versus 5x + 100. its going to take some time for EQ #1 to catch up, but shouldn't be long for #1 to leave #2 in the dust. set your vision far and you should see it.

some one else take the #1 status is better for the states since then it can relax and focus more on recovering its economy.

good use of imagery in your paragraph about the life of some of the people in china. however, remind me tho, what country didn't go thro that phase before they achieve their full potential and the high point of their power? may i suggest some reading materials on this? the jungle? any book on the British industrial revolution and such and such lol.

can't you just feel the presence of mah pride🙂?
Click to expand...

You say its hard for any American to be convinced that their country is going down? Really? I think I have heard from every American who has posted on here or anywhere for that matter that America is going down. We are all very realistic.
But for you to come on here and claim that China is "winning"? What a fking joke. I so sick of Chinese and their stupid nationalistic obessession. So many Chinese I talk to think that China is perfect. I am really sick of it. Every other person from a foreign country is usually realistic about their country and realize that it isnt perfect. Look China is a ******ed pollitical system. Anyone who believes that China has a political system that is worth emulating has something wrong.
Dont you realize that instead of slaves here in the US, we have imported slavery from China? Chinese work as slaves for the rest of the world and their slaveholders are there fellow countrymen? I mean seriously? And you are proud of this? China has a few at the top capitalizing on extremely hard worked low paid worker, low paid because of the number of other workers is so high and the govt does not work to protect its citizens.
What happens when the people of China actually wake up? The worker demands health, fair wage, fair work conditions, fair work treatment, fair work hours? Do you think that the Chinese govt can continue to suppress the common Chinese worker forever? And why would you want that? For your STUPID nationalistic pride you jerk? The common Chinese person works in brutal conditions for the few wealthy Chinese and so that fools like you can proclaim that someday China will win? Are that self centered that idiotic?
I try whenever I can to buy American, not only to help Americans but to help the ordinary Chinese person. In order for China to stay competitive they have to have lower prices than anywhere else in the world they do that in a number of ways, set the currency value low, set wages low, and price fixation. So if you devalue your currency you in effect make most labor worthless, and by setting wages low you pull a double whammy, not only is the money you make worthless but you make so little of it, you can buy in effect nothing, and if you complain, get sick, or dont work hard enough there are a billion others waiting in line. You also set your prices so that there is no competition. Who can compete if you set your prices so low that in a country where there is labor laws and fair labor treatment, it would be IMPOSSIBLE to compete. So there you have it. China is "winning" in the global marketplace on the backs of common Chinese. And you come in here proclaiming your nationalistic pride, go shout your pride to someone who gives a fk. Go stand in front of a tank and see if it stops for your nationalistic bullst, they dont care about your nationalistic bullst, they just want the money to come in, screw you and screw the average Chinese person, and while the big wigs in China are at it, screw the enviroment, so there you have it, you WON!!!! Yeah!!! Your right, I see the in my vision, what a vision it is.
 
MeaCulpa said:
You say its hard for any American to be convinced that their country is going down? Really? I think I have heard from every American who has posted on here or anywhere for that matter that America is going down. We are all very realistic.
But for you to come on here and claim that China is "winning"? What a fking joke. I so sick of Chinese and their stupid nationalistic obessession. So many Chinese I talk to think that China is perfect. I am really sick of it. Every other person from a foreign country is usually realistic about their country and realize that it isnt perfect. Look China is a ******ed pollitical system. Anyone who believes that China has a political system that is worth emulating has something wrong.
Dont you realize that instead of slaves here in the US, we have imported slavery from China? Chinese work as slaves for the rest of the world and their slaveholders are there fellow countrymen? I mean seriously? And you are proud of this? China has a few at the top capitalizing on extremely hard worked low paid worker, low paid because of the number of other workers is so high and the govt does not work to protect its citizens.
What happens when the people of China actually wake up? The worker demands health, fair wage, fair work conditions, fair work treatment, fair work hours? Do you think that the Chinese govt can continue to suppress the common Chinese worker forever? And why would you want that? For your STUPID nationalistic pride you jerk? The common Chinese person works in brutal conditions for the few wealthy Chinese and so that fools like you can proclaim that someday China will win? Are that self centered that idiotic?
I try whenever I can to buy American, not only to help Americans but to help the ordinary Chinese person. In order for China to stay competitive they have to have lower prices than anywhere else in the world they do that in a number of ways, set the currency value low, set wages low, and price fixation. So if you devalue your currency you in effect make most labor worthless, and by setting wages low you pull a double whammy, not only is the money you make worthless but you make so little of it, you can buy in effect nothing, and if you complain, get sick, or dont work hard enough there are a billion others waiting in line. You also set your prices so that there is no competition. Who can compete if you set your prices so low that in a country where there is labor laws and fair labor treatment, it would be IMPOSSIBLE to compete. So there you have it. China is "winning" in the global marketplace on the backs of common Chinese. And you come in here proclaiming your nationalistic pride, go shout your pride to someone who gives a fk. Go stand in front of a tank and see if it stops for your nationalistic bullst, they dont care about your nationalistic bullst, they just want the money to come in, screw you and screw the average Chinese person, and while the big wigs in China are at it, screw the enviroment, so there you have it, you WON!!!! Yeah!!! Your right, I see the in my vision, what a vision it is.
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:scared: why u mad tho?
 
MeaCulpa said:
You say its hard for any American to be convinced that their country is going down? Really? I think I have heard from every American who has posted on here or anywhere for that matter that America is going down. We are all very realistic.
But for you to come on here and claim that China is "winning"? What a fking joke. I so sick of Chinese and their stupid nationalistic obessession. So many Chinese I talk to think that China is perfect. I am really sick of it. Every other person from a foreign country is usually realistic about their country and realize that it isnt perfect. Look China is a ******ed pollitical system. Anyone who believes that China has a political system that is worth emulating has something wrong.
Dont you realize that instead of slaves here in the US, we have imported slavery from China? Chinese work as slaves for the rest of the world and their slaveholders are there fellow countrymen? I mean seriously? And you are proud of this? China has a few at the top capitalizing on extremely hard worked low paid worker, low paid because of the number of other workers is so high and the govt does not work to protect its citizens.
What happens when the people of China actually wake up? The worker demands health, fair wage, fair work conditions, fair work treatment, fair work hours? Do you think that the Chinese govt can continue to suppress the common Chinese worker forever? And why would you want that? For your STUPID nationalistic pride you jerk? The common Chinese person works in brutal conditions for the few wealthy Chinese and so that fools like you can proclaim that someday China will win? Are that self centered that idiotic?
I try whenever I can to buy American, not only to help Americans but to help the ordinary Chinese person. In order for China to stay competitive they have to have lower prices than anywhere else in the world they do that in a number of ways, set the currency value low, set wages low, and price fixation. So if you devalue your currency you in effect make most labor worthless, and by setting wages low you pull a double whammy, not only is the money you make worthless but you make so little of it, you can buy in effect nothing, and if you complain, get sick, or dont work hard enough there are a billion others waiting in line. You also set your prices so that there is no competition. Who can compete if you set your prices so low that in a country where there is labor laws and fair labor treatment, it would be IMPOSSIBLE to compete. So there you have it. China is "winning" in the global marketplace on the backs of common Chinese. And you come in here proclaiming your nationalistic pride, go shout your pride to someone who gives a fk. Go stand in front of a tank and see if it stops for your nationalistic bullst, they dont care about your nationalistic bullst, they just want the money to come in, screw you and screw the average Chinese person, and while the big wigs in China are at it, screw the enviroment, so there you have it, you WON!!!! Yeah!!! Your right, I see the in my vision, what a vision it is.
Click to expand...


It's crazy that they continue to worship Mao. Mao was certainly one of the worst people in human history, and they think he's great to this day. Amazing. Keep censoring information, you wouldn't want the Chinese to get the true story of the largest murderer in the history of the world.
 
Cleavername said:
its like comparing 2 equations, 20x versus 5x + 100. its going to take some time for EQ #1 to catch up, but shouldn't be long for #1 to leave #2 in the dust. set your vision far and you should see it.
Click to expand...

The thing about your equasions is that they won't stay the same over time. At some point, Chinese income will be great enough that people will choose to enjoy life instead of living in company bunks and working in sweatshops 7 days a week to allow a terrible quality of life. When people can actually support a decent quality of life with a better work week and living conditions, the Chinese equation will shift to a normal growth rate and inflation will rise. It will be a GOOD thing when China stops growing so fast cause it will be a sign that peoples lives are getting better. That is unless the government chooses to maintain growth via slave labor indefinately.
 
GypsySongman said:
It's crazy that they continue to worship Mao. Mao was certainly one of the worst people in human history, and they think he's great to this day. Amazing. Keep censoring information, you wouldn't want the Chinese to get the true story of the largest murderer in the history of the world.
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i never did that, i simpiy stated what he did so i dunno how u could have made that conclusion about me.
 
Cleavername said:
i don't expect to convince you that they are the "winner", i don't even know what that means. they aren't the winners now, but i know, they will be, soon enough,
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So, you don't know what "winning" is but you're sure China's going to do it.

🙄 And you accuse us of blind nationalistic pride.

Cleavername said:
can't you just feel the presence of mah pride🙂?
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Yes, it's stifling and obnoxious.


Here's a thought for you.

Last I checked, the US debt:GDP ratio was approaching or past 100%, depending on which numbers you believe, a level we haven't seen since WWII. Pretty alarming.

Greece, Spain, Portugal, the Scandinavian countries, Ireland ... all above 100%, some way past 100%. 😱


Wonder where China is? They're rich, right? Gotta be 0%, they're flush with cash! Well, maybe. They're also carrying huge and growing debt which some project to hit 96% of GDP next year. They've had their own government stimulus spending plans. Of course, corruption is rampant and they're not exactly transparent, so it's probably worse than that.

China. Has. Issues.

But hey, believe what you want. Me, I think the entire planet is circling a great big standard-of-living recalibration drain, I think the United States will be hit hard, I think developing countries are going to see their gains stall or reverse, and I think most of China is most certainly a developing country.

I bet in 30 years there will be a billion Chinese people living in mud huts, drowning when the river floods, and getting thrown in the gulag by their rulers.
 
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,988161-3,00.html

i know what he did wast pretty, but he did it, and it had to be done. now the questions you have to ask your self is simplify this, if he hadn't exist to unite the falling apart 20th century china, would i be here now taking a stab at a future that is just as good as the one that was available to u? i don't have a time machine to go back in time and erase him and wait for some one else take his spot to unite china, but i sure as hell wouldn't take the chance. and if you do not understand a word of what i just said then i have nothing more to say.
 
Why am I mad? Because it is maddening to me that people such ad yourself swell with nationalistic pride when the source of Chinas growth is on the backs of slave labor.
It would be like if the US was using black people today as slaves and we were prospering, and I went around flaunting to everyone how perfect and great the US is, well the US wasn't great for what it did. Luckily people didn't put up with it and the US still grows reasonably well. If we could grow a lot more and have worse labor conditions would I make that trade? Hell no.
 
pgg said:
China. Has. Issues.
Click to expand...
oh yea no doubt, every one does, but its not going to stop them from becoming the world largest economy and then few times over.

MeaCulpa said:
Why am I mad? Because it is maddening to me that people such ad yourself swell with nationalistic pride when the source of Chinas growth is on the backs of slave labor.
It would be like if the US was using black people today as slaves and we were prospering, and I went around flaunting to everyone how perfect and great the US is, well the US wasn't great for what it did. Luckily people didn't put up with it and the US still grows reasonably well. If we could grow a lot more and have worse labor conditions would I make that trade? Hell no.
Click to expand...

oh now i realize the difference between us now. you want a #1 to be not only the largest economy and that its people has to live a high life while doing it am i right? i can see now why you look down on china. its without question they will become #1, they will beat that deadlines by few decades. but here is the question i think that is truely dividing us. if i told you what it takes to be #1 is to do what they have done, would you still do it? does a billionaire live a easy life before he makes billions? and when they do make it there do u think if they live it up and dont work as hard as they use to they will get to keep their $$$? so what if the former billionaire live like a regular person and the ladder live and spend his wealth, does it make the first billionaire any less of a billionaire than the second?
 
pgg said:
I bet in 30 years there will be a billion Chinese people living in mud huts, drowning when the river floods, and getting thrown in the gulag by their rulers.
Click to expand...

Or, they could live in one of these...

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPILhiTJv7E[/YOUTUBE]


Before seeing that, I used to think, "ZOMG, we're gonna get pwned by China! :scared: "

Now; it's, "Ouch, that can't possibly be sustainable, maybe we Yanks ain't doing too bad after all."
 
maishaldan said:
Or, they could live in one of these...

(Video)

Before seeing that, I used to think, "ZOMG, we're gonna get pwned by China! :scared: "

Now; it's, "Ouch, that can't possibly be sustainable, maybe we Yanks ain't doing too bad after all."
Click to expand...

Yeah, everywhere I look, I realize that China's in deep trouble, perhaps deeper than the US. Ecologically, financially (link, link), governmentally.

Financially, check out my first link. China doesn't just have a real estate boom, it's got an everything boom. China's building new airports that get no flights and bullet trains that have no passengers. They're shoddily built too, so China's bullet trains are already experiencing safety issues. China's building new refineries as fast as they can, but immediately shuttering them because their use would demolish Chinese steel prices.

Meanwhile, the average Chinese person is making negative returns on their savings account because the government has locked in certain interest rates that are below inflation. The local governments and huge, nationalized companies use this "free" money to built empty towns to prop up the desired GDP growth.
 
Cleavername said:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,988161-3,00.html

i know what he did wast pretty, but he did it, and it had to be done. now the questions you have to ask your self is simplify this, if he hadn't exist to unite the falling apart 20th century china, would i be here now taking a stab at a future that is just as good as the one that was available to u? i don't have a time machine to go back in time and erase him and wait for some one else take his spot to unite china, but i sure as hell wouldn't take the chance. and if you do not understand a word of what i just said then i have nothing more to say.
Click to expand...

Taiwan and Hong Kong are both better than mainland China without your dear leader.

I've never met a chinese person who was looking to return to china.
 
Cleavername said:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,988161-3,00.html

i know what he did wast pretty, but he did it, and it had to be done. now the questions you have to ask your self is simplify this, if he hadn't exist to unite the falling apart 20th century china, would i be here now taking a stab at a future that is just as good as the one that was available to u? i don't have a time machine to go back in time and erase him and wait for some one else take his spot to unite china, but i sure as hell wouldn't take the chance. and if you do not understand a word of what i just said then i have nothing more to say.
Click to expand...

Wait, so there was no alternative but The Great Leap Forward, The Cultural Revolution, and a couple of 5 year plans? Really?

Have you ever actually learned what happened during these programs the great Mao instituted? Mao and Stalin outstrip Hitler by an order of magnitude with regards to number of deaths attributable to their reign.
 
maishaldan said:
Or, they could live in one of these...

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPILhiTJv7E[/YOUTUBE]


Before seeing that, I used to think, "ZOMG, we're gonna get pwned by China! :scared: "

Now; it's, "Ouch, that can't possibly be sustainable, maybe we Yanks ain't doing too bad after all."
Click to expand...

Wow. Using agricultural land to build a city for 12 million that is deserted. Strong work.

Did you see the skies? Not once could you actually see the sky, only a brownish haze. I wonder what the long-term health implications are for breathing that kind of "air".
 
Last edited:
GypsySongman said:
Taiwan and Hong Kong are both better than mainland China without your dear leader.

I've never met a chinese person who was looking to return to china.
Click to expand...

By the time my grandkids come about china should be in a better shape than the US, or even long before that.

what mao did in the first half of his life was good, second half was bad. so ima leave it at that.
 
pgg said:
I hate playing thread cop in arguments I'm participating in, but let's all be civil and polite, however wrong the other guy might be. 🙂
Click to expand...

that just mean he doest agree with the other side 🙂.

i hope no ones hurt over this thread, cuz i am only mildly kiddin, some of the times🙂.
 
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