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IMG and ENT

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Eyad

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Hello every one,
I need your opinion plz
Now I'm resident at ENT dep Damascus,University preparing to a master degree in onl-hns.
So how is it possible to IMG with master degree from his original country and USMLE1,2 & CS to get ENT residency in the USA.

MANY THANKS
 

exmike

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its possible. however, as far as i know, only one IMG has matched in the last five years
 

El Duderino99

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its possible. however, as far as i know, only one IMG has matched in the last five years

That's not entirely accurate. I am an IMG and I matched just over one year ago. I also personally know another IMG who matched the year before. We both matched at "big name/high end" programs. So, that's two already... ;)
 
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macabi

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That's not entirely accurate. I am an IMG and I matched just over one year ago. I also personally know another IMG who matched the year before. We both matched at "big name/high end" programs. So, that's two already... ;)

Hello El Duderino99.
Thanks for your input. I graduate 2010 from PUCMM, Dominican Republic and I'm interested in ENT.
Could you briefly describe your experience? (Background, application process, matching results...)
I appreciate your response.
 

El Duderino99

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Macabi,

Certainly. I graduated from a UK medical school, spent some time as a resident over there and then came over to the USA. I then spent an additional 2 years doing research within an otolaryngology department, performing both basic science and clinical research. This, fortunately, resulted in multiple publications, podium presentations at national meetings, etc.

I received over 20 interview offers during the Match across a spectrum of programs ranging from top-tier to the so-called mid-tier (although, I firmly believe that training in most institutions within our field is exemplary and of a high standard). I interviewed at approximately 20 places to maximize my chances as an IMG. Matched at my number one.

Overall, I would say that the research experience was the difference. Excellent board scores are an absolute requirement for success as an IMG. It is extremely difficult to make up for deficiencies in this regard. If, in addition to excellent academics, you are able to generate solid research and speak intelligently about it, you will not have a problem matching. Ultimately, by the time you apply, your application/CV needs to not only meet but, in many cases, exceed that of a US applicant.

Regards,

El Duderino
 
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blz

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The one IMG I know personally who matched had over 30 publications on pubmed to his name. I think research is your ticket in.
 

macabi

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Thank you very much for the info. I have to ace step 1 first. Planning to take it by December '09 or Jan '10.
Does anyone know about some places where I could get involved in ENT research?
Also, I've read that some people do chart reviews. What exactly does that mean? Is it just looking for patterns, risk factors, or what in those charts?
 

hopeisbeautiful

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UK grad (not that this is of any superiority or influence!), Step 1 of 260, 6 publications (4 in ENT, 1 in plastics, 1 in maxfax). Did a few months of pro bono stuff in 3rd world countries. Planning to do an elective in US soon...:D

What do the mighty attendings or residents think? Or anyone really...!
Any luck? Keeping fingers crossed!! :xf::xf::luck:
 
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El Duderino99

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UK grad (not that this is of any superiority or influence!), Step 1 of 260, 6 publications (4 in ENT, 1 in plastics, 1 in maxfax). Did a few months of pro bono stuff in 3rd world countries. Planning to do an elective in US soon...:D

What do the mighty attendings or residents think? Or anyone really...!
Any luck? Keeping fingers crossed!! :xf::xf::luck:

You're in a good starting position. Having also graduated in the UK, I understand what you're up against. There will be some negativity directed your way for being an IMG. Ignore it. You have a great shot at matching. There are a few of us who, over the years, have proven that it is not only possible to match but very possible to match well. I am thrilled to be at a program that commonly factors into those "Top 3 or 4 programs in the country" lists. I love it here. My training thus far absolutely demolishes anything the NHS has to offer in our field.

Your step 1 score is excellent. Hopefully, your research extends beyond the usual NHS chart review and/or audit type stuff as they are significantly more serious about solid research in the US. And, additionally, lose the UK lingo eg maxfax (which is OMFS in the US). I am not kidding when I say this will help you out.

In any case, it is wonderful to see another UK graduate making an effort to get into otolaryngology stateside. If I can be of any help, feel free to PM me.

El Duderino
 
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Masoud309

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its possible. however, as far as i know, only one IMG has matched in the last five years

I am not sure how accurate this is.. In fact, according to the Hopkins website, last year alone 5 IMGs matched, one at Hopkins and another one I personally know at Oregon. http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/hmn/f09/circling.cfm

Going to medical school in the US is no superior than going to medical school anywhere else IMHO since all the texts are the same, all searches are on pubmed, no one listens in class so it doesn't matter who teaches, etc.

But it is true that you will be looked down upon as an IMG by most faculty. This probably comes from the fact that we owe $200k and you don't! lol jk

M.
 
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Pir8DeacDoc

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Do note that the female from Mexico who matched at Hopkins had done a visiting clerkship there and also did a year of research with Hopkins. That's a little more involved than just going through the match and ending up there.
 

El Duderino99

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Agreed. I, and many other IMGs, have almost universally had to do additional research to get our foot in the door and subsequently match. It's not a matter of just applying...

The Mexican med student mentioned in the article interviewed at our institution and was a phenomenal candidate. I am sure there are others like her from around the world.
 

hopeisbeautiful

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Having also graduated in the UK, I understand what you're up against. There are a few of us who, over the years, have proven that it is not only possible to match but very possible to match well. I am thrilled to be at a program that commonly factors into those "Top 3 or 4 programs in the country" lists. I love it here. My training thus far absolutely demolishes anything the NHS has to offer in our field.

And, additionally, lose the UK lingo eg maxfax (which is OMFS in the US). I am not kidding when I say this will help you out.

In any case, it is wonderful to see another UK graduate making an effort to get into otolaryngology stateside. If I can be of any help, feel free to PM me.

El Duderino

Thank you so much for replying! I have been trying to find a UK grad who has successfully matched into a residency there. And cheers for all the advice! I shall lose the UK lingo immediately! Cue hours of House and Scrubs!

Thanks again!
 
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neutropeniaboy

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But it is true that you will be looked down upon as an IMG by most faculty. This probably comes from the fact that we owe $200k and you don't! lol jk

M.

This isn't true at all.

Taking a foreign graduate is a risky business. Language barriers. Cultural barriers with patients. Visas. Certification. Use of Medicare dollars. etc.

It's more complex than simple xenophobia.
 

OtoBahn

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Perhaps such a generalization is flawed.

I understand constraints such as visas, cultural and language barriers are all valid arguments especially when a competitive specialty like otolaryngology is being considered. In the process, naive FMGs end up spending a lot of money in the application process, whilst they are never told 'officially' that such barriers exist.

On the other hand, maybe some FMGs can enrich some of these competitive programs, take them to the next level, have specific skills and expertise that a generic American graduate may not possess, and positively contribute to the camaraderie in these departments. This is the reason why I would argue for some of these FMGs to be interviewed, especially if they have a proven track record. What happens after that is left to the democratic process. Simply suggesting that such well trained, interview-worthy FMGs 'DO NOT EXIST' is like a null hypothesis begging to be disproved.

I myself am an FMG -- and although I have been disappointed by the lack of responses in most programs, few of the top-tier programs have invited me to an interview. I can't leave any of my stats here, but I can say that my scores would be just about average. The interview will, hopefully, give me a chance to show how my skills might potentially be useful to those departments, and how I could fit well into those training environments.

OtoBahn:xf:
 
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El Duderino99

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Hello Everyone,
I'm a 3rd year medical student(5 year program) from Pakistan, studying in the countrys' top medical school! I really want to get a residency in ENT. My dad is an ENT surgeon and i've been interested in it for as long as i can remember. I've read a lot of posts on this forum and its really depressing indeed.
icon9.gif
I mean to see the current situtation where IMGs arn't even considered for interviews is just wrong. I know for a fact that medical students here at my institution are just as good as American students. Having said that, i would like to know what are my chances of getting a residency on ENT?
I'm currently involved in ENT, CT, Plastic and basic science research...will get publications hopefully by the end of 5th year...planning to give step 1 in jul '11...also can someone please tell me where i can do an observership in US?
Thank you,

Hello. By "top medical school", I assume you are referring to Aga Khan. The only reason I am familiar with that institution is the somewhat amusing arrogance that many of your classmates display when rotating as observers here in the US. This is not to say that it is not a good institution but the bottom line is that regardless of how good you perceive your training to be, the cold, hard fact is that the majority of faculty in the US (and, indeed, in the UK where I went to medical school) will never view your training as equivalent to that of a top US graduate or even a top graduate from a developed, Western nation.

This is unfortunate but, in many circumstances, is justified. Although my experiences have led me to believe that many Aga Khan students do have excellent book knowledge, their ability to interact with residents and patients is simply awful--my hypothesis is that this is a direct result of a completely different training culture and perception of the "doctor-patient relationship" in Pakistan vs. The West. Additionally, communication ability is often a problem. A difficult to understand accent or even one that sounds sufficiently "foreign" is enough to bias your application. For example, in your post, you state that you will "give Step1"--a phrase that, oddly, many of your compatriots like to use. The phrase is actually "take Step1". I admit this is a rather silly example of a wider problem--namely, that the ability to communicate with patients, especially your average American, will be compromised.

Finally, on a positive note, it is not impossible to achieve an interview as an IMG as many of the above posts indicate but it is challenging. Scoring 99/260 on Step 1, Step 2 and even Step 3 is not enough. Meaningful research at a US institution is absolutely key. This is the same advice I have given to many IMGs from several different countries and it is, essentially, the only path that I have seen work for those attempting to match into ENT. Let me reiterate: it is wonderful that you are publishing in your home country but you NEED to do research in the US. Lastly, an observership will not be as useful as time spent doing research. Many times, the observer is "ignored" as they have no clinical role and are of no benefit to the clinical team. Unfortunately, when the observer leaves they are quickly forgotten. The only exception is the observer who has already established a favourable impression in the department as a researcher.

The above is not intended to sound harsh but is simply a reality check for yet another individual studying "at the best medical school in Pakistan". Guess what friend, I graduated from "the best medical school in the UK" and had to work for several years in the US using many of the aforementioned tactics to match at a top-tier US institution. And, I can assure you that a UK IMG is not seen in the same light as a non-Western IMG. The point is that you need to work exceptionally hard, in the USA, and be willing to dedicate at least 2 years of time post-medical school to have a real shot at matching into ENT in the USA--and even then it is not guaranteed. You cannot be satisfied with being "as good" as a US applicant--the argument of many faculty is then "Why should we take the IMG when we have a US applicant who is just as good?". I would advise that you aim to be an even better applicant than the average US ENT applicant who, due to the competitive nature of the field, is often excellent. Good luck.

El Duderino
 
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Loria

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Hi everyone, i would like to know if getting into general surgery first and then next year or later apply for ent , will help me as an IMG??? Because i know its a lot easier to get into general surgery, or its just a waste of time???? plz!
 

Handsome88

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Hi everyone, i would like to know if getting into general surgery first and then next year or later apply for ent , will help me as an IMG??? Because i know its a lot easier to get into general surgery, or its just a waste of time???? plz!

I got the same question. I'm from Ireland with a Canadian citizenship if that matters.
 
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macabi

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I got the same question. I'm from Ireland (From a top 50 university in the world) with a Canadian citizenship if that matters.

I'm not sure is GS would make it easier but if i had canadian citizenship i would make efforts in trying programs there. I know there aren't as many but i would your chances are better that way, unless you have good reasons not to go to canada. Needless to say, anywhere you apply you gotta work your way up step by step. There's no such thing as shortcuts in the process, only deep understanding of what you're facing, your goals and tons of preparation for the best or the next best given your personal experiences.
Good luck from someone in the same boat of ENT and IMG dilemmas!
 

member197289

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Is it true that US ENT residency programs prefers younger IMGs over old IMGs? What do they mean "old IMG"? Are they referring to their age or are they referring to the number of years they have been away from practice of medicine?
 

Juanlink

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Let's remove the dust from this old post!:coffee:
I just got my step one score and I will be taking my step 2 cs in the next few weeks, I have a question for those that have matched so far.
How can I get involved in research? How did you do it? any advice for the new generation IMGs?
I assume you guys went to a hospital, made some phone calls, had some contacts or just got lucky and were invited by a program. I want to know what did you do?
How can I become an "even better applicant than the average US ENT applicant" as El duderino said?:bookworm:
 
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