IMG friendly gen surgery programs

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socrates89

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Sorry if this has been discussed before, but I was looking for a more recent list since I am assuming the list is getting smaller, if you do know any IMG friendly gen surgery categorical programs please add to the list and ill try to organize and add to it if as well if I come across any.

St. Barnabas in Livingston NJ
Pinnacle Health in Harrisburg, PA
Robert Packer in Sayre, PA
St. Francis in Trenton, NJ
Kern Medical Center in Bakersfield, CA
York Hospital in York PA
 
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Our (UTSW) program takes img every so often. 3 of 13 of our 2nd year class come from international schools. One from a Caribbean school and 2 from Ireland. We've graduated one from a school in Pakistan. There may be others that I am forgetting.
 
Sorry if this has been discussed before, but I was looking for a more recent list since I am assuming the list is getting smaller, if you do know any IMG friendly gen surgery categorical programs please add to the list and ill try to organize and add to it if as well if I come across any.

St. Barnabas in Livingston NJ
Pinnacle Health in Harrisburg, PA
Robert Packer in Sayre, PA
St. Francis in Trenton, NJ
Kern Medical Center in Bakersfield, CA
York Hospital in York PA

Creighton
Most undesirable programs in NYC
Mich State-Kalamazoo (I think it's Western Michigan now)
Most programs in Detroit
Saint Louis University
St. Joseph's Ann Arbor
Providence (Southfield, MI)
Marshall (WV)
West Virginia U

Here's a website that may be helpful:
http://www.facs.org/residencysearch/search/search.html

I applaud you putting this together, but it may be a little late to help this year's applicants.

In general, locations that are undesirable (e.g. the Bronx or Brooklyn) become "IMG friendly" out of necessity. There are very few places that are IMG-friendly by choice, and when they are, it's usually the unique, cream-of-the-crop IMGs they're after.
 

Interesting table there. 80% are IMGs and 0% are AMGs. Not sure where the other 20% come from, although they have separated out Women as comprising 20%. Maybe there are some same sex medical schools that I don't know about? 😛

In addition, they claim that over 50% of their residents were AOA or Top 15% of their classes. Do International schools even have AOA?
 
Mayo has 1 or 2 in each class of residents, FWIW. Most did a prelim year here and were kept on as categoricals (after repeating intern year).
 
Our (UTSW) program takes img every so often. 3 of 13 of our 2nd year class come from international schools. One from a Caribbean school and 2 from Ireland. We've graduated one from a school in Pakistan. There may be others that I am forgetting.

10 yrs ago the situation was very different and US grads didn't fill all the available spots, therefore FMGs were common. Most of the big names have graduated FMGs because the situation was so different. Nowadays, only 50 or so non-US FMGs get categoricals every year (NRMP data), and the vast majority is in the places posted in this thread, ie generally nondesirable programs.

There are academic places that are considered FMG-friendly (including Hopkins and Mayo). In this regard, FMG-friendly means that they will take FMGs as prelims, and those with great performance will have a better chance of getting categoricals next yr. For example, Mayo takes 10-12 prelims each year (I think) and actually keeps 1 of them as a categorical. Hopkins does not usually keep prelims but tries to place them elsewhere.

Other academic (or affiliated) FMG-friendly programs include Creighton, UTHSCSA (often 1 of 8 categorical positions goes to an FMG), the nondesirable NY programs (Bronx, Harlem etc), U of Toledo and ECU. Cleveland Clinic is rumored to sometimes interview those with stellar scores (>260? >270?). Some community programs get FMGs as categoricals (due to lack of US grads) and most academic places get FMGs as prelims.

As an FMG, imo, you have to keep in mind that there are very very qualified FMGs competing for the few spots, with stellar scores, tons of papers, US rotations, US letters etc. And/or have the right connections. And for those targeting prelim spots, try to find out where the previous prelims ended up, because many of the big names only get prelims to do the scutwork.

Also, I think it may be possible that FMGs are generally graded by some ppl as UK grads > European grads > Asian grads, fwiw.
 
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Another (relatively) FMG big name program is University of Washington. There is a process where an FMG can do an 8 week audition rotation as a Sub I if scores, etc are good enough. If they impress people during that audition rotation they may get matched to a 2 year prelim position. At that point, several have gotten categorical positions at UW and others have been helped into categorical positions elsewhere. Of course, many have washed out and gotten nothing, and others have been able to match into other fields (anesthesia off the top of my head).
 
Nowadays, only 50 or so non-US FMGs get categoricals every year (NRMP data), and the vast majority is in the places posted in this thread, ie generally nondesirable programs.

I couldn't find the stats you quote. I looked at the NRMP website, and I can only find "Foreign-trained Physicians" category (Table 12 in this pdf), where 100-120 match into categorical positions every year....but that would include US Citizens.

Another (relatively) FMG big name program is University of Washington. There is a process where an FMG can do an 8 week audition rotation as a Sub I if scores, etc are good enough. If they impress people during that audition rotation they may get matched to a 2 year prelim position.

We may want to find Blonde Docteur and confirm what happens to UW 2-year prelims, as she participated in that experiment.
 
I couldn't find the stats you quote. I looked at the NRMP website, and I can only find "Foreign-trained Physicians" category (Table 12 in this pdf), where 100-120 match into categorical positions every year....but that would include US Citizens.



We may want to find Blonde Docteur and confirm what happens to UW 2-year prelims, as she participated in that experiment.

Yessss I've been wondering about this for a few months, what has become of Blonde Doctor? I remember when she chose a prelim spot at U Wash over categorical at other programs and it was a pretty big deal on this forum. Where is she now? Does anyone know?
 
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My sources tells me that she won a research scholarship and is doing that elsewhere (ie, not UW). The sources have not gotten back to me on whether or not she has a categorical position somewhere (perhaps hasn't even applied for one yet) or is returning to UW.
 
My sources tells me that she won a research scholarship and is doing that elsewhere (ie, not UW). The sources have not gotten back to me on whether or not she has a categorical position somewhere (perhaps hasn't even applied for one yet) or is returning to UW.

Thanks for the info, maybe she'll be back to give us an update.
 
I couldn't find the stats you quote. I looked at the NRMP website, and I can only find "Foreign-trained Physicians" category (Table 12 in this pdf), where 100-120 match into categorical positions every year....but that would include US Citizens.

Try table 2 in the same document. 59 US IMGs and 57 non-US IMGs.

Re UW, I am not sure I would consider it really IMG-friendly if it requires a 2-month subI (for which you have to pay), only to match you prelim afterwards.
 
Try table 2 in the same document. 59 US IMGs and 57 non-US IMGs.

Re UW, I am not sure I would consider it really IMG-friendly if it requires a 2-month subI (for which you have to pay), only to match you prelim afterwards.

Nice. Thanks.

I think it's safe to assume that a large percentage of the 57 non-US FMGs matched into undesirable locations.

Maybe a more interesting stat would be the number of US IMG and non-US FMG applicants. They are not always on a level playing field, specifically in US experience and/or US LORs.
 
I'm quite touched, honestly, people remembered and cared about my story. It's a bit soap opera-esque, sorry.

I posted on the women surgery residents thread, but I found out in July of PGY-2 year that I was expecting a baby, and that the husband whom I had followed out to Seattle in the first place was transferred down to Los Angeles. Before the pregnancy we had agreed that he would move down and I would continue to try my luck at UW, as I was happy there and have received a lot of positive feedback. But obviously it's quite impossible to be a single parent and a surgery resident, so I decided to apply for research fellowships once we found out and took myself out of the running for any categorical position, st UW or anywhere else.

As mentioned, I was lucky enough to win a big national research fellowship with two full years of funded support to join any lab I chose, and I found a mentor at UCLA. I'm happy with the project and my lifestyle, and happy at the thought of resuming residency with a two year old rather than a newborn, but it is a double leap into the void. Just like nobody in their right mind turns down categorical positions to become a prelim instead, no prelim voluntarily does research and removes the self from clinical practice as the chances of picking up an R3 position become infinitely smaller once you leave the sheltering arms of a program.

So I suppose I'm either the poster child of prioritizing family while still trying to have a serious career, or incredibly stupid. However, I have recently interviewed for a very good R3 spot, so there might be light at the end of the tunnel?

As far as outcomes for 2-yr prelims: I was obviously very interested. I definitely feel its a better gig than a one year prelim unless you absolutely know you want to go back into the match. Here's the data:

Two years before me:

1) FMG, attending in home country, stayed in UW program, now UW transplant fellow
2) FMG, prior residency in home country, R3 spot at university program, just matched to plastics fellowship at Mayo
3) Caribbean grad, R3 at community program
4) FMG, fired mid-year due to atrocious English and incompetence

Year before me:
1) FMG, attending surgeon in home country: categorical R3 at university program
2) AMG, good medical school: categorical R3 at university program
3) AMg, good medical school: kept in the UW program
4) AMG, good medical school, interested in ortho: took ortho house physician position with handshake deal to join ortho program pending good performance
5) FMG: geographically restricted due to husband's residency match, took research job, had baby, not sure if will seek further residency training
6) FMG, completely incompetent, not given recommendation for residency in any field. Currently doing research at UW.

My year (one and two year prelims)

1) me-- research fellowship, hopes to stay in GS
2) AMG, grandfathered in to integrated vascular surgery spot mid-year
3) FMG, R3 at university program
4) FMG, R3 at university program
5) AMG, interested in ortho, doing ortho research, applying for ortho match one last time
6) AMG, divorced with custody of children by other parent, so geographically restricted to Seatlle. Doing research, applying for nonsurgical residency (?anesthesia)
7) categorical R2 in ENT at MAss Eye and Ear
8) AMG, EM residency
9) AMG, R2 urology position at MGH
10) AMG from top 5 med school, applied for ob/gyn, did not match despite stellar credentials. The only other 'voluntary' prelim in the program, he waited for his wife to graduate med school before couples matching.

This year:
1) FMG: no prior residency in home country, landed R2 spot in integrated CT program
2) AMG: neurosurgery residency at UW on a trial basis
3) AMG: applying for EM residencies in the match
4) two other AMGs unaccounted for-- year isn't over yet. Looking for GS spots

Of the current chief class, two started as prelims. One matched to vascular fellowship at Mayo, and one matched to Uw's MIS fellowship. Last years graduating chiefs had two who started as prelims; one became the transplant fellow as I mentioned, and one is in private practice.

I won't pretend that prelim residents are mentored equally as categoricals, but UW really is quite successful in placing prelims. Most of them do the work themselves, with the right embellishments and prodding from the PD, who is genuinely very helpful. If you're staring down the barrel of a prelim residency, I'd recommend it.
 
Just a young pup but I must ask some simple questions as I am soon to be Carrib MS.. do you have to have a research background or interest when you apply to UW or any other GS residency? And how challenging is it as IMG (e.g. SGU) besides the USMLE scores to gain a spot at UW? Thank you so much!
 
Thanks all. @badgerssa: I have no idea. In the few years I've kept track of, only Americans are accepted in the scramble (or SOAP), and any FMGs in the program did the 8-wk sub-i that blue2000 mentioned. Many, many of those FMGs (who went on to be very successful; they frankly blew their American counterparts out of the water) had significant research experience and came to the US specifically to become academic surgeons in an esoteric field not offered in their home country.

The road to a categorical surgery position for a Caribbean grad is a long, lonely one. I can't give much constructive advice, sorry. I anticipate it will become even more difficult in the future. The FMGs I'm discussing are amazing; one was an attending CT surgeon in Japan [try being a co-intern on CT with an attending heart surgeon-- he's now a professor of cardiothoracic surgery at Columbia, where I met him]; one was an attending general surgeon at a top academic hospital in Argentina; he has nearly100 publications and is a wonderful human being to boot. He was hilarious, nearly everyone's favorite person in the program. You'd sit in trauma conference with him when he was technically an R2 and he'd be pointing out flaws in the attendings' management, or missed finding on the radiology imaging flashed up, and he'd always be right. Humble, but right. And these guys had to start as prelims.
 
BlondeDocteur,
Thank you so much for your insight!
I think I would make a great clinician than a researcher so I had to ask. I'd like to receive an excellent training from the brightest and finest mentors and I like Seattle. I will at St. George's Univ this fall and I am just trying to keep up with ongoing affairs and future outlook in the clerkship/residency years. Thank you again! I am subscribed to this forum so I will continue to learn from your wonderful thoughts and concerns. Ps-Location: drifting aimlessly.. Haha~ That's how I feel sometimes as a father of two and when I am a bit older and still pursuing the field of medicine. Then there is my wife's amazing love and support! Having a family is THE BEST decision I've ever made in my life.
 
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