IMG matched to radiology, without preliminary spots, please help!

[Chris3000]

Hi everyone,

Here's my situation/stat:

I am a Canadian, went to SGU, currently matched to a radiology spot in Eastern USA, without a preliminary position (still).

I have a 256 on step 1, 259 on step 2, CS pass, all on first attempts. 3.95 cumulative GPA.

What I have tried:
- SOAP, no offers
- Contacted essentially all IM and surgery programs in the country that I could identify as having a preliminary position via FREIDA. Responses has been either nothing at all, or spots are all filled but will keep my file on hand.
- Daily monitoring of FindAResident by AAMC, and residencyswap.org
- Multiple conversations with PD of radiology department and school; some positives, but at the end, no fruitful results.

So, as April is coming to a close, I am pretty concerned about being able to find any prelim spot at all. I would very much appreciate any advice/direction/tip anyone can provide. I'm basically at my wits end, and I don't know how else to approach this situation.

Thanks for your time everyone.

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[molten]

Hi everyone,

Here's my situation/stat:

I am a Canadian, went to SGU, currently matched to a radiology spot in Eastern USA, without a preliminary position (still).

I have a 256 on step 1, 259 on step 2, CS pass, all on first attempts. 3.95 cumulative GPA.

What I have tried:
- SOAP, no offers
- Contacted essentially all IM and surgery programs in the country that I could identify as having a preliminary position via FREIDA. Responses has been either nothing at all, or spots are all filled but will keep my file on hand.
- Daily monitoring of FindAResident by AAMC, and residencyswap.org
- Multiple conversations with PD of radiology department and school; some positives, but at the end, no fruitful results.

So, as April is coming to a close, I am pretty concerned about being able to find any prelim spot at all. I would very much appreciate any advice/direction/tip anyone can provide. I'm basically at my wits end, and I don't know how else to approach this situation.

Thanks for your time everyone.

With as perfect an application as that, why the hell don't you have a prelim spot? What did you do wrong?

 

[Chris3000]

With as perfect an application as that, why the hell don't you have a prelim spot? What did you do wrong?

Well, I interviewed at a hospital, who swore up and down that they will rank me for prelim. And since I'm an international applicant, I also applied to internal medicine. SO, I basically converted all my preliminary interviews to categorical. After all my interview concluded, the hospital that said they will rank me high for prelim....closed due to financial difficulties. And I pretty much got stuck like that.

I'm pretty far from being perfect though. I'm older (29), with 3 year gap between undergrad and medical school. Plus, I have pretty minimal research experience.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Well, I interviewed at a hospital, who swore up and down that they will rank me for prelim. And since I'm an international applicant, I also applied to internal medicine. SO, I basically converted all my preliminary interviews to categorical. After all my interview concluded, the hospital that said they will rank me high for prelim....closed due to financial difficulties. And I pretty much got stuck like that.

I'm pretty far from being perfect though. I'm older (29),

29 is not "older" in terms of residency.

...

with 3 year gap between undergrad and medical school.

Not important to most programs especially Prelim ones.

Plus, I have pretty minimal research experience.

Prelim years don't care about research experience.

I suspect there is (must be) something else stopping you from getting a Prelim position. It appears to me that you ranked very few (one?) Prelim program and then applied for 2 specialties - IM and Rads.

 

[Chris3000]

29 is not "older" in terms of residency.

...

Not important to most programs especially Prelim ones.



Prelim years don't care about research experience.

I suspect there is (must be) something else stopping you from getting a Prelim position. It appears to me that you ranked very few (one?) Prelim program and then applied for 2 specialties - IM and Rads.

Yes, I did apply to two specialties. I understand that my scores looks great on paper, but being a Canadian who went to a Caribbean school, I wasn't confident in my chances in securing a position when applying to only a single specialty. I think cumulatively, IM + radiology + transitional year, I applied to 200+ programs (not counting the programs during SOAP process).

I'm guessing it's my visa issue right now that's the biggest hurdle from getting a spot for me. But like I mentioned before, I don't really even know how else to find out if/when a program might have anything open, so any direction as to how to improve myself or how to approach a program is greatly appreciated.

 

[rokshana]

With as perfect an application as that, why the hell don't you have a prelim spot? What did you do wrong?

so judgy...would you say the same thing to the GW guy who matched in rad onc and doesn't have a prelim spot either? he posted over in the positions wanted forum and i dont see anyone asking him what's wrong with you?

 

[molten]

so judgy...would you say the same thing to the GW guy who matched in rad onc and doesn't have a prelim spot either? he posted over in the positions wanted forum and i dont see anyone asking him what's wrong with you?

What did you do wrong - does not equal - what's wrong with you.

Anyway, I was expressing surprise at the process rather than being judgemental.

 

[deleted116380]

Wow, sorry to hear your situation. I matched into rads as well, but can't even imagine what it would be like to match into my field and have a prelim hold it up.

Anyway, from a quick search on similar topics, the answer seems to be what you're doing. Contact all the programs and express interest and ask. However, since you're not from the US, just make sure you get your visa issue sorted out.

The good news (from what I read) is that prelim spots start to open around mid-May all the way til the end of June for reasons like no visa, failed drug test, etc, that didn't allow them to start and give up the spot. When that happens, you still need to be proactive and find which programs have the openings.

Good luck.

 

[Chris3000]

Wow, sorry to hear your situation. I matched into rads as well, but can't even imagine what it would be like to match into my field and have a prelim hold it up.

Anyway, from a quick search on similar topics, the answer seems to be what you're doing. Contact all the programs and express interest and ask. However, since you're not from the US, just make sure you get your visa issue sorted out.

The good news (from what I read) is that prelim spots start to open around mid-May all the way til the end of June for reasons like no visa, failed drug test, etc, that didn't allow them to start and give up the spot. When that happens, you still need to be proactive and find which programs have the openings.

Good luck.

Thanks! Yeah, I guess the only thing I can do is just keep power dialing. I have heard about more positions opening in May too, so hopefully! Just trying to figure out if there are actually any better way to find out about positions without calling everyone, but doesn't seem to be the case.

 

[gutonc]

Thanks! Yeah, I guess the only thing I can do is just keep power dialing. I have heard about more positions opening in May too, so hopefully! Just trying to figure out if there are actually any better way to find out about positions without calling everyone, but doesn't seem to be the case.

Just to clarify...you're looking at Prelim Surg, right?

 

[Chris3000]

Just to clarify...you're looking at Prelim Surg, right?

Yes, I am looking at prelim surgery. So far, all the programs that I talked to, said they are all filled. I am also looking at all prelim IM and transitional years as well. Pretty much anything, anywhere. I'll do a year of night float if that's what it takes.

 

[myhandsarecold]

i think u can do any clinical pgy1 including peds, family, em, anesthesia, maybe call those too? one of ur best bets would be to call up ur hospital's surgery, im, family, peds programs to see if they're willing to create a position for you. im familiar of cases like urs and usually, the med school and prog director finds a way for a position to be created out of the match, but i bet SGU doesnt care since your check has cleared. goodluck, i heard canada is nice

 

[gutonc]

i think u can do any clinical pgy1 including peds, family, em, anesthesia, maybe call those too?

You can't possibly be a resident. How many prelim Gas spots are there? Prelim EM? You're either a pre-med who doesn't know what you're talking about or you're insane.

Back to the OP. At this point, you really need to lean on your Rads PD. Maybe s/he doesn't need you next year and doesn't care if you find a prelim spot. But perhaps s/he would be willing to twist some arms to get you a spot for this year so s/he doesn't have to scramble for somebody next year.

You made what appears to be a massive miscalculation in the Match this year, but there's no real reason that you can't recover from it.

 

[myhandsarecold]

Resident

Our anesthesia pgy1 is an IM prelim. I've heard some of the 4 yr em programs have pgy1 that is more like a TY. I dunno if there are any more of those open spots but that's for him to find out. I don't have access to eras to find that out

I don't like you either

 

[myhandsarecold]

According to the ACGME site

PG-1 or CLINICAL BASE YEAR (CNY) Requirements

Diagnostic Radiology Effective 7/2010

1) Resident education in diagnostic radiology must include five years of clinically oriented graduate medical education, of which four years must be in diagnostic radiology.

2) Clinical Year
This year must consist of training accredited by the Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education (ACGME), the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Canada (RCPSC), or equivalent organization in internal medicine, pediatrics, surgery or surgical specialties, obstetrics and gynecology, neurology, family medicine, emergency medicine, or any combination of these. The clinical year may also comprise a transitional year accredited by the ACGME or equivalent organization.
During the clinical year, elective rotations in diagnostic radiology must occur only in radiology departments with an ACGME accredited diagnostic radiology residency program and cannot exceed two months.
If the clinical year is offered by the institution of the core residency, and is not a stand alone ACGME-accredited year, the program director will be responsible for assuring the quality of the year.
The program director is responsible for verifying that the resident accepted into
the diagnostic radiology program has successfully completed the clinical year.

RECOMMENDED PG-1 Curriculum
6 months of Internal Medicine, General Surgery, OB-GYN, and/or Pediatrics (One month of which should be an ICU experience)
1 month Emergency Medicine
1 month Ambulatory experience
No more than 2 months Radiology electives (must be ACGME-accredited program) Other electives: Cardiology, Pulmonology, GI, Rheumatology, Neurology, Orthopedics,
Neurosurgery, ENT, Urology, and/or Anatomic Pathology

Hey, you can do a year in Canada

 

[thierryhenry]

I don't like you either

haha

 

[Law2Doc]

Yes, I am looking at prelim surgery. So far, all the programs that I talked to, said they are all filled. I am also looking at all prelim IM and transitional years as well. Pretty much anything, anywhere. I'll do a year of night float if that's what it takes.

I have a friend who is IMG who was in a similar situation and actually went to the city in which she was already matched advanced and actually went door to door to all the local community programs within driving distance, CV in hand, until she found a surgery program with a prelim spot who interviewed her and gave her a spot on the spot. Padding the pavement is a lost art, but can sometimes be effective in this kind of situation. No way all the "dead end" community surgery prelims are full, and most will like English speaking, already designated applicants who are happy to be scutted out for a year just to satisfy an internship requirement.

Someplace will open up, i suspect, if you are aggressive and patient in finding things and if you are willing to move anywhere and do anything.
The only other alternative will be to beg your advanced residency to defer you by a year and focus on the prelim in the next match and spend a year getting all the visa issues squared away.

 

[Chris3000]

Thank you for all the replies! I really appreciate the help.

To address some things that were raised:

1. While some programs like ane (also an advanced program) have a pgy-1 year, it's usually candidates that basically matched into a prelim and advanced program. As for peds and ob/gyn, there are very few spots across the country. I cannot do a year in those programs as a categorical, as that would violate my contract with radiology, since it overlaps in the later years.

2. Yeah, I think I will have to keep leaning on the radiology PD. I guess I am afraid of being too pushy in case he gets annoyed and decides that he doesn't want to defer me for a year.

3. Canada is definitely a valid option, except there are no prelim positions similar to the US. Radiology etc are all categorical, meaning if you match, the first year is an intern year designed to have time in different specialties. Those are not separated from advanced programs.

4. Canada IS nice! Getting a residency outside FM and IM, even if I did well in school, is neigh impossible.

 

[Chris3000]

Hi all,

First of all, thanks for all the advice and words of encouragement. After much tribulation, I found a spot! Now just have the stress of visas and other paperwork to deal with.

Thanks again, and best of luck to everyone!

 

[Dral]

Congrats! Glad to see people follow up here with what happens.

 

[deleted525628]

Hi all,

First of all, thanks for all the advice and words of encouragement. After much tribulation, I found a spot! Now just have the stress of visas and other paperwork to deal with.

Thanks again, and best of luck to everyone!

Congratulations! With those stats you certainly deserve this. I'm curious though, was it prelim surgery?

 

[Chris3000]

Thanks! No, I actually manage to get prelim medicine, luckily!

 

[deleted116380]

Congrats, Chris! Nice to hear. For those that are currently still without a spot or for future cycles, how did you end up landing the spot? Help from your advanced program, used some online slot availability site, or got a reply to your emails/calls?

 

[Chris3000]

I managed to find a spot where I did most of my cores, due to some issue with a resident having to leave that opened up a spot unexpectedly.

Calls and emails remain to be unfruitful, but I have heard of success stories from my colleagues in similar situations.

 

[genswim24]

I had a friend that was in almost the same exact position as the OP (foreign grad that matched Radiology but no prelim). They too had zero success with phone calls and emails but networking eventually got them a prelim surgery spot.

Another friend of mine landed an advanced spot for medicine this past week. They matched a prelim medicine spot last year but failed to match a PGY-2 position for medicine or get a SOAP spot during this cycle. They emailed and called hundreds of places but it was their PD who helped them get the interview in the end.

It seems like networking is still your most likely avenue when placed in these situations.

 

[curiousme23]

I am in same situation as you this year. I got matched to advanced anesthesia position but not prelim. I am an IMG and have been calling emailing all programs but most of them say positions are filled or do not respond.
I have been taking positions from NRMP unfilled + Residency swap + info residency.
I also need J1 visa.
I have tried contacting advanced program PD but does not seem positive till now.

Can I ask you where did you match? Any guidance will be helpful. I feel it is so hard as an IMG who doesn't have US experience to get this open position information. I really want to join this AP position. I have almost exhausted my funds in this 2 years of prep and application

Earlier I thought March end was last date or something to find prelim spot but after seeing your response it seems May some seats might open up.
I will really look forward to hear form anyone who made it past soap or anyone else who can help me.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Chris3000]

I am in same situation as you this year. I got matched to advanced anesthesia position but not prelim. I am an IMG and have been calling emailing all programs but most of them say positions are filled or do not respond.
I have been taking positions from NRMP unfilled + Residency swap + info residency.
I also need J1 visa.
I have tried contacting advanced program PD but does not seem positive till now.

Can I ask you where did you match? Any guidance will be helpful. I feel it is so hard as an IMG who doesn't have US experience to get this open position information. I really want to join this AP position. I have almost exhausted my funds in this 2 years of prep and application

Earlier I thought March end was last date or something to find prelim spot but after seeing your response it seems May some seats might open up.
I will really look forward to hear form anyone who made it past soap or anyone else who can help me.

Thanks in advance.

Hey there,

I feel your pain.

So, I ended up going to a spot that I did some rotations at and liked me.

Have you spoken to the anesthesia PD? Be up front, and let them know. They may be talking/calling people behind the scenes for you.

I basically did the same thing. I cold called EVERYONE. I talked to my school. I spoke to my advanced program PD. All of this led to only one interview which did not work out.

BUT, there are spots that open, because people change their minds, program adds a new spot, people gets sick, and unfortunately, people also die. So you have to keep eye open for the position. findaresident by ERAS is helpful. There are also program director associations that sometimes post positions. Keep talking to everyone and asking if anyone knows a position. Spots open up all the way until, and sometimes after July. You may even start later, but perhaps have to forgo any vacation for PGY-1 year.

Good luck!

Oh, posting your stats on this forum may also help

 

[Radignator]

I don't have any advice to give, but have known several people in a similar position who all managed to find a prelim spot before the start of the year. Best of luck.

 

[Shanian]

I heard there is an option of waiving intern year!! I don't know how it works but I would ask about it if it is the last option...
to my exp the IM/Surgery program in the hosptal you matched Rad would be best option, you and PD and everyone in the hospital you might know should push them..not a big deal to add an extra intern!!!!

 

[gutonc]

I heard there is an option of waiving intern year!! I don't know how it works but I would ask about it if it is the last option...
to my exp the IM/Surgery program in the hosptal you matched Rad would be best option, you and PD and everyone in the hospital you might know should push them..not a big deal to add an extra intern!!!!

Cite your source.

 

[Shanian]

Cite your source.

Sorry!! I said I heard if it is not a crime!! I heard random bill and jack talking about it!!! I did not look for more information since it was not my problem but I let someone whose problem is to ask about that option.... Only aim to help someone... If this is the text book with reference and not the place you can say what you heard...kindly delet the post and remove me from here!!!!

 

[AdmiralChz]

You can't have intern year waived, @Shanian. Your respective specialty board won't recognize your residency as complete. Plus, no hospital is going to pay you or allow you to work as a PGY-2 without PGY-1 completed.

 

[rokshana]

Sorry!! I said I heard if it is not a crime!! I heard random bill and jack talking about it!!! I did not look for more information since it was not my problem but I let someone whose problem is to ask about that option.... Only aim to help someone... If this is the text book with reference and not the place you can say what you heard...kindly delet the post and remove me from here!!!!

well just throwing out info without any credibility to it isn't exactly responsible...more you should learn how to post intelligently on this forum.

 

[Sonex]

This is 2019 and I am now in the exact same shoe. An IMG who has matched into an advance position but no prelim. Can anybody help me?

 

[NotAProgDirector]

You need to help yourself. You need to find a PGY-1 spot, and you have 3 months to do so.

The best thing you have going for you is that you have a PGY-2 spot already. This will make you much more attractive to prelim programs, as they won't have to worry about what you'll be doing next, interviews, etc.

You should probably focus on the geographic area of your advanced match to start, but ultimately you could go anywhere.

 

[Pugsnhugs]

This is 2019 and I am now in the exact same shoe. An IMG who has matched into an advance position but no prelim. Can anybody help me?

First step contact your school and see if they can help you. Second step let your advanced program know. They might be able to place you somewhere or create a prelim spot for you. Otherwise aggressively contact all programs and try to scramble into something

 

[GoSpursGo]

First step contact your school and see if they can help you. Second step let your advanced program know. They might be able to place you somewhere or create a prelim spot for you. Otherwise aggressively contact all programs and try to scramble into something

As an IMG contacting the school won't do anything, but definitely contact your advanced program. They may be able to point you to some open prelim spots.