IMG w/repeats on Steps

[korry1977]

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I am US citizen IMG with repeats on USMLE Steps...

I know I will have to do prelim year or two for surgery...

just wanted to know how good are my chances to match in a prelim spot...

thanks for any advice...

 

[NNguyenMD]

I just finished a Surgery Sub-I at Cedars-Sinai.

There is one resident of all 5 residency classes in surgery who is a USIMG. I don't know his numbers but the story I got was that he did 2 prelim-surgery years and one or two research years until he was allowed to start over as a Surgery Categorical-1.

He's a Cat-3 now. So its definitely possible. However I don't know any other specifics to his profile.

Goodluck!

 

[korry1977]

I just finished a Surgery Sub-I at Cedars-Sinai.

There is one resident of all 5 residency classes in surgery who is a USIMG. I don't know his numbers but the story I got was that he did 2 prelim-surgery years and one or two research years until he was allowed to start over as a Surgery Categorical-1.

He's a Cat-3 now. So its definitely possible. However I don't know any other specifics to his profile.

Goodluck!

Thanks for the advice....

Well... I know I will have to put in 2 years of prelim... does any one know if prelims are allowed at all to sit for ABSITEs? I know I have a long road in front of me, but I dont mind 'paying my dues'

Thanks...

 

[NNguyenMD]

The non-designated prelims I met there were studying for it, so I assume yes?

 

[korry1977]

Cool... the reason I ask, please correct me if I'm wrong, is if I do well on them and my prelim years, I should be in good shape for a categorical at a community program...

is this realistic?

Thanks

 

[NNguyenMD]

The impression I got from the non-designated prelims was that it is a very lonely, gruesome road ahead of you.

I may not be the ideal person to dispense information either, I'm actually applying to IM. But I spent the last month doing a surgery sub-I out of personal interest.

However your sentiments match the same as I witnessed from the other prelims. Work hard at your prelims, do well on your ABSITE, and apply everywhere then pray to god.

Research seems to be looked upon very highly as well.

I wish you lots of luck. I think surgery is fun at times, but I don't have enough love for operating to do it as a career. I'm more of a critical care person myself, and I'll be happy doing that out of medicine.

However I am very jealous as Surgery residents get to dip their hands into procedures and lines far earlier than I do.

Goodluck to you. I think that as long as you work your heart out, and let your superiors know that you're all business and will do anything it takes to be the best surgeon possible, you'll have no problem.

 

[jc7721]

The journal Surgery recently had an issue with a lot of articles about IMGs under: "Special Section: International medical graduates and surgical training in the United States". Volume 140, issue 3. Thought it might be useful or at least interesting.

 

[jc7721]

The journal Surgery recently had an issue with a lot of articles about IMGs under: "Special Section: International medical graduates and surgical training in the United States". Volume 140, issue 3. Thought it might be useful or at least interesting.

 

[Winged Scapula]

There are still several hundred Preliminary Surgery spots which remain open after the match each year and even with some failures on the USMLE, these spots are not closed to you.

Non-designated prelims are generally required to sit for the ABSITE if they are interested in pursuing a surgical career; although some non-surgical types (ie, Anesthesia) can do a surgical prelim year, its pretty rare and I've never actually seen a non-designated prelim not take the ABSITE since they were all interested in obtaining a Categorical position.

Whether or not you can obtain a Categorical position is very specific. Some programs will happily take prelims on but have little history in moving these residents into a categorical track. You need to do a little research and find out from programs specifically if they have a history of doing this. You might get a categorical position after 1 year, if one opens up, or perhaps 2, when others go into the lab. Doing well your prelim year, having a good attitude and a determination to keep trying will be your best tools to try and get into a categorical track. In addition, your best chances tend to be at a university program which has people going in and out of the lab, thereby possibly having positions open for others to move into.

 

[korry1977]

There are still several hundred Preliminary Surgery spots which remain open after the match each year and even with some failures on the USMLE, these spots are not closed to you.

Non-designated prelims are generally required to sit for the ABSITE if they are interested in pursuing a surgical career; although some non-surgical types (ie, Anesthesia) can do a surgical prelim year, its pretty rare and I've never actually seen a non-designated prelim not take the ABSITE since they were all interested in obtaining a Categorical position.

Whether or not you can obtain a Categorical position is very specific. Some programs will happily take prelims on but have little history in moving these residents into a categorical track. You need to do a little research and find out from programs specifically if they have a history of doing this. You might get a categorical position after 1 year, if one opens up, or perhaps 2, when others go into the lab. Doing well your prelim year, having a good attitude and a determination to keep trying will be your best tools to try and get into a categorical track. In addition, your best chances tend to be at a university program which has people going in and out of the lab, thereby possibly having positions open for others to move into.

Alright...



Thanks for info and advice...

 

[korry1977]

Thanks for all the information, everyone...

I have another question...

what do fellowship programs evaluate when considering applicants to their programs?

I am interested eventually going into to trauma, if at all possible...


also, could anyone give me a estimate on number of years to reach this goal...

prelim years+research yrs+categorical+fellowship...

I would greatly appreciate it...

 

[tooshorttoolong]

Depends on how soon you can get shifted in/out of lab. I don't think that anyone will be able to give you that estimate. BUt best of luck to you, as you seem really motivated to do this. That rocks.

 

[Leukocyte]

If I may Korry1977, I just have one question for the Surgeons here...

...How will Medicare funding for residency affect a person who does 1 or 2 or more years of preliminary Sx?

I understand that Medicare funding depends on the field you ORIGINALY choose. So If one does one year of IM, then decides to switch into GS, he will be funded for only 2 years at the GS program!!! That is, at least, 3 years of unfunded GS residency years, which the hospital has to pay out of their pocket! Am I right?😕

So if I do 2 years of prelim-sx, then was lucky and was able to "transfer" to a categorical spot, will I be Medicare funded for the rest of my categorical years? If not, for how many years will I be Medicare funded?

Also, Is there a limit on how many Prelim-sx years I do? Lets say I NEEDED to do 4 years of Prelim-sx before I was able to get a Categorical spot...would Medicare pay for those 4 Prelim-sx years AND my entire Categorical years?

Thank you very very very much!

 

[Winged Scapula]

If I may Korry1977, I just have one question for the Surgeons here...

...How will Medicare funding for residency affect a person who does 1 or 2 or more years of preliminary Sx?

I understand that Medicare funding depends on the field you ORIGINALY choose. So If one does one year of IM, then decides to switch into GS, he will be funded for only 2 years at the GS program!!! That is, at least, 3 years of unfunded GS residency years, which the hospital has to pay out of their pocket! Am I right?😕

So if I do 2 years of prelim-sx, then was lucky and was able to "transfer" to a categorical spot, will I be Medicare funded for the rest of my categorical years? If not, for how many years will I be Medicare funded?

Also, Is there a limit on how many Prelim-sx years I do? Lets say I NEEDED to do 4 years of Prelim-sx before I was able to get a Categorical spot...would Medicare pay for those 4 Prelim-sx years AND my entire Categorical years?

Thank you very very very much!

HCFA funds you for the length of the residency in which you originally match.

If you change specialties into a program with more years HCFA eligibility than your original specialty, then yes, the program does have to "eat" the cost fo your education. Your length of HCFA funding does not change, as far as I am aware, from that allocated to you when you first match.

I am not sure how it works for Prelim funding nor the transition to Categorical position. I have seen several people start out in a Prelim position who eventually were tracked into a Categorical one and completed their GS residency. As far as I know, NONE of them had funding issues...this is a fairly common scenario, so I wouldn't spend a lot of time worrying about it.

There is typically not a limit on how many Prelim years you can do, but the ACS requires that you spend your last 2 years in the SAME program and you cannot be BE/BC if you are in more than 3 residency programs during your training.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Thanks for all the information, everyone...

I have another question...

what do fellowship programs evaluate when considering applicants to their programs?

Typically things like LORs, ABSITE scores, personal statements, etc.

I am interested eventually going into to trauma, if at all possible...

Not a very competitive fellowship, at this point in time.

also, could anyone give me a estimate on number of years to reach this goal...

prelim years+research yrs+categorical+fellowship...

Tough to do, but let's say you spend 2 years as a Prelim, trauma is not competitive so you don't necessarily need to go into te lab, so spend another 3 years as a Categorical resident and 1-2 years as a trauma fellow - total of 6 years minimum; could be much more if you wanted to do some lab time, if you had to repeat a year, if you wanted to do a second trauma/critical care fellowship year.

 

[korry1977]

Typically things like LORs, ABSITE scores, personal statements, etc.

Not a very competitive fellowship, at this point in time.




Tough to do, but let's say you spend 2 years as a Prelim, trauma is not competitive so you don't necessarily need to go into te lab, so spend another 3 years as a Categorical resident and 1-2 years as a trauma fellow - total of 6 years minimum; could be much more if you wanted to do some lab time, if you had to repeat a year, if you wanted to do a second trauma/critical care fellowship year.

Thanks for your helpful insights and advice...

 

[korry1977]

Could anyone also comment about which fellowships are most competitive to least competitive...

Thank You...

 

[Winged Scapula]

Could anyone also comment about which fellowships are most competitive to least competitive...

Thank You...

There are lots of threads devoted to this topic, but in short:

Most Competitive:
Plastics
Pediatric
Surg Onc

Medium Competitive:
Breast
Minimally Invasive
Colorectal
Hand (getting harder to do without Ortho or Plastics training)

Least Competitive:
Trauma
Transplant
Vascular
Cardiothoracic
Endocrine

See this thread for more discussion: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=256510&highlight=fellowship+competitiveness