Importance of grades in vet school?

[krist]

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So I've heard very little info on the topic of how important grades really are once you're in vet school (except for c=dvm) which I know is true, but in the current job market, etc, in your experience, how important are vet school grades in terms of jobs after graduation or internships/possible residency? No one at our school during orientation or anything has really mentioned this at all yet, and I don't want it to be too late to get really good grades?

 

[CurrySpice]

Generally I hear the same thing as you, with the exception of people seeking competitive residencies. I went to a talk by a large animal surgery resident and she definitely encouraged us to be at the top of our class for those applications.

I try my best and will see where I end up...

 

[nyanko]

I think for jobs, making connections + proving that you are competent clinically will be way more important than your grades in some basic science courses.

For most internships it seems like a lot of places want you to be near middle of class or better but will rely a little more on LORs so long as that is true. Residencies depend on field and for that experience, demonstrated interest in the field you're applying in, and actual clinical aptitude seem to matter primarily, with the same kind of stipulation that you should have decent grades but that they don't need to be top of the class if you've got those other factors.

For equine stuff this may all be different, because they don't do the match the same way and people wind up having to apply so early...

 

[nyanko]

Also don't be an insufferable gunner dickwad. There are too many of these.

 

[bunnity]

We had a lot of discussion about this in Professional Foundations class and the conclusion is that grades don't matter at all for jobs. They encouraged us to leave GPA off our resumes.

Internships - they matter to some degree. I have no intention of doing an internship so I haven't looked into it beyond that.

 

[krist]

Thanks! I'm at the point, and granted only in my first semester, but where I know I could have all As so far if I worked my tail off and I know I'm towards the top of my class but if I work moderately hard I could get bs...I know vet school will get harder so I will probably have to work harder for my Bs than I am now, but that shouldn't change my position in my class,so i was just trying to get a feel for how important grades are. At this point i don't have any intention in pursuing internship or specialty either but want to keep my options open.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

Also don't be an insufferable gunner dickwad. There are too many of these.

This. Honestly, while grades are certainly not unimportant, your ability to work with people in a friendly manner and manage staff is MUCH more important. There were several people in my class that made great grades, but good lord, the holier than thou attitude was just awful - I would never want to work alongside them. I think LORs are probably even more important than grades. I didn't have superb grades, but it was my externships and LORS that got me the position I have.

For a basic clinic job (since you said you weren't interested in internship etc) I highly doubt they would ask to see your grades....but then again, I didn't apply for those so I'm not sure. As long as you pass boards, interview well and mesh with the staff, and have good LORs, I can't see them asking for a transcript.

 

[NStarz]

What about for an internship? (Angell, AMC)

Also, if you complete an internship, wouldn't grades matter even less? Since you have clinical experience and can seemingly get honest LORs from your internship year?

 

[dyachei]

For private practice immediately after vet school, they don't matter. In our business class (4 days at the end of third year) they told us not to put GPA on your résumé even if you were at the top of your class. Either it wouldn't matter because your grades were average to good or they were great and most employers assume that means you're hard to get along with (probably an association with gunners). So as long as you are passing classes and doing well in clinics, they don't matter for immediate entrance into private practice. He quoted a study but its been 2.5 years and I can't remember where it was but they interviewed people hiring for private practice

 

[CalliopeDVM]

Knowledge and the application of that knowledge will matter when it comes to getting a clinical job, but grades don't. As has been said, personality and interpersonal skills matter a lot more than grades do.

 

[Emiloo4]

Also don't be an insufferable gunner dickwad. There are too many of these.

👍
I always heard about gunners, but geez are they annoying. Enjoy your textbooks and cadaver because they're the only relationships you'll have for four years with your high almighty attitude.

 

[Bismarck]

Would add the caveat that some scholarships are GPA-based and require strong (>3.5) academic performance to maintain (what your school has may vary.) Also seconding the "don't be a dick" policy and be open to working/sharing ideas with others.

 

[StartingoverVet]

It is all relative to the class.

If I get an A in a class.........grades matter.
If I get a B or C in a class... grades don't matter.
If I get <C in a class.... ......grades REALLY matter.

😀

 

[Emiloo4]

It is all relative to the class.

If I get an A in a class.........grades matter.
If I get a B or C in a class... grades don't matter.
If I get <C in a class.... ......grades REALLY matter.

😀

so true.

 

[DVMDream]

It is all relative to the class.

If I get an A in a class.........grades matter.
If I get a B or C in a class... grades don't matter.
If I get <C in a class.... ......grades REALLY matter.

😀

We don't have A's, B's and C's here....

It is pass, pass with credit, pass with distinction. I think they also have bad fail and fail..

 

[LetItSnow]

For a basic clinic job (since you said you weren't interested in internship etc) I highly doubt they would ask to see your grades....but then again, I didn't apply for those so I'm not sure. As long as you pass boards, interview well and mesh with the staff, and have good LORs, I can't see them asking for a transcript.

I'm not in a position to know personally, but I was out to dinner last year with some folks that do HR consulting for clinics, and they said that in their years of experience they have not once seen a clinic ask about your grades or ask for a transcript.

FWIW. *shrug*

Presumably they matter at least somewhat for internship/residency.

I think a big problem in these discussions (whether they're online or just in the hallways with classmates) is that everyone means something different when they say "I bombed" or "My GPA sucks" or whatever. When I say "I bombed" it means I got a D. When a gunner says "I bombed" it means they got 92% instead of 99%. (And I want to punch them.)

So anyway, you never really know what someone means when they talk about how poorly (or well) they did, or how low (or high) their GPA is.

Life's a lot easier if you just focus on learning the material you need to be a good vet and ignore everyone around you.

 

[Emiloo4]

Life's a lot easier if you just focus on learning the material you need to be a good vet and ignore everyone around you.

👍

 

[Smilezz]

I've heard surgery interships/residencies are the most competitive, and a lot of people have told me that you either have to know somebody or have a 4.0...preferably both.

I think I entertained the thought for about...oh, 2 seconds. For me, it's just not worth the stress of killing myself for straight A's. 🙂

 

[Packen]

I've heard surgery interships/residencies are the most competitive, and a lot of people have told me that you either have to know somebody or have a 4.0...preferably both.

I think I entertained the thought for about...oh, 2 seconds. For me, it's just not worth the stress of killing myself for straight A's. 🙂

I heard this about exotics/wildlife internships as well. Is this true though? Does anyone know where you can find info on what you need for certain residencies and internships in order to be competitive? Just curious.

 

[Packen]

Just to add - since I definitely do NOT have a 4.0 - may as well know what is off the table for me in 2015 😉

 

[Camelidcrazy]

Anyone know anything about Therio residencies? Wazzu is pass/fail so I don't have a GPA. Say I'm in top 25%- will that suffice?

If you don't know- does anyone have a clue how to find out? I guess I could ask the resident who just passed her Therio boards but I don't want to risk sounding like I am a slacker or something. Is that just my misconception?

 

[StartingoverVet]

I've heard surgery interships/residencies are the most competitive, and a lot of people have told me that you either have to know somebody or have a 4.0...preferably both.

I think I entertained the thought for about...oh, 2 seconds. For me, it's just not worth the stress of killing myself for straight A's. 🙂

That is just not true except to the degree you always need to "know somebody".. you mostly get competitive residencies by coming highly recommended or having made a positive impression with someone.

A 4.0 doesn't make you a good surgeon, so without the above, the 4.0 is meaningless.

 

[cdndvm]

That is just not true except to the degree you always need to "know somebody".. you mostly get competitive residencies by coming highly recommended or having made a positive impression with someone.

A 4.0 doesn't make you a good surgeon, so without the above, the 4.0 is meaningless.

Unfortunately getting a competitive residency is highly GPA dependent. I am currently going through the match process and have spent a bunch of time interviewing at various institutions (all academic). They have all indicated that one of the first criteria they use to rank applicants is your GPA and class rank. Several of the institutions indicated they frequently do not read the applicants PS or LORs (as many institutions get 150+ applicants for one spot).

The other big factor they placed on rank order was wether the person visited the institution. LORs from people they knew, or word of mouth may aid (or in the case of a bad review, destroy) the applicant.

My 2 cents.

 

[Bill59]

For competitive internships and residencies you don't need a 4.0 but GPA is important. That's because it is one of the things programs use to rank applicants. If everything else is equal, the applicant with a 3.8 is going to be ranked ahead of the one with a 2.8.

So it's something to keep in mind during the first few years of vet school. In your fourth year if you decide to apply for internship/residency it's very hard to change your GPA much at that point.

 

[Foxhunter]

I know for me personally, I've decided to focus on getting decent grades in grad school (B's or higher), but trying to get really good research and papers. For when I go to vet school, I'm going to try to get really good grades, but we'll see how that actually turns out. I know for sure that I'm going to want to go for internships/residencies in either Large Animal or Lab Animal, and from what I can tell the competition for large animal spots is huge (even though the jobs are scarce.... oh irony).

 

[Smilezz]

That is just not true except to the degree you always need to "know somebody".. you mostly get competitive residencies by coming highly recommended or having made a positive impression with someone.

A 4.0 doesn't make you a good surgeon, so without the above, the 4.0 is meaningless.

I completely agree that a 4.0 doesn't make you a good surgeon, just by that alone. But getting a 4.0 doesn't necessarily make you a better candidate for vet school either...yet this is the quick system that has been set-up for comparing people across many institutions. You don't want to be potentially eliminated from a pool of applicants because the GPA cut-off that they're looking for is higher than yours. You want them to keep reading through your resume or get an interview to really try to impress them. But your GPA is what, from my impression, a lot of time is going to get your foot in the door to make it to the next step. The letters of recommendation being very important too, I'm sure.

To some degree, if you really want something, you have to play the game.
I wish it wasn't the case, but it is.

 

[Catdreamer]

Being in vet school grades only matter for a few things
1. you got a scholarship that requires you to get a certain GPA
2. you cannot get below a 2.5 at Iowa State otherwise you get kicked out of the program
3. if you want to do a residency or internship after you graduate then you need a very very good GPA because these are really competitive

I am not saying you should slack off and not learn the material to just slide by with C's. But being a former straight A student in undergrad I find that tests don't really determine your knowledge. They determine how well you can take tests and know just the material the teachers are asking you about.

My advice is understand the material as a whole rather than just memorizing it for the test. Also in vet school you have many opportunities to do wetlabs or go assist a vet with something rather than studying... Don't pass up these opportunities because you have to study to get an A.

So overall I say grades are not important unless you need them for a certain thing. You should still strive to get them but don't beat yourself up and loss sleep/opportunities just because you want a perfect GPA

 

[cowgirla]

2. you cannot get below a 2.5 at Iowa State otherwise you get kicked out of the program

yikes. no ifs, ands, buts? is that semester GPA or overall?

what's their policy on flunking a class? I felt like when I was looking at them they made it sound like they were super accommodating and really wanted to help their students, so I'm just surprised by what you posted

 

[NStarz]

You can't fail one class here at OSU or you're out. You can apply for readmission, but that's a ton of other hoops to jump through.

 

[cuitlamiztli]

yikes. no ifs, ands, buts? is that semester GPA or overall?

what's their policy on flunking a class? I felt like when I was looking at them they made it sound like they were super accommodating and really wanted to help their students, so I'm just surprised by what you posted

That's not actually accurate -- you're required to maintain a 2.00 or above to remain in good standing/graduate. You're only kicked out if you flat out fail a class. We've got a quality point deficiency (QPD) system thing and academic probation that kicks in if you get below a 2.00, but I'm not sure exactly how it works.

ETA: And if you fail a course, you can apply for re-admission, but it's not a guarantee.

 

[nyanko]

If you fail a course here, you have one shot to remediate it, usually over the summer. If you don't pass that, or if you fail too many courses, you can repeat the previous year. If you fail again during that year, I think you are then kicked out.

 

[Emiloo4]

Here you go to the academic advancement committee and they evaluate it case by case. But when you fail a course you have to remediate (if they allow you) or you can join the next freshman class coming in (if you have good reason for failing). Not planning on having to find out.

 

[Catdreamer]

That's not actually accurate -- you're required to maintain a 2.00 or above to remain in good standing/graduate. You're only kicked out if you flat out fail a class. We've got a quality point deficiency (QPD) system thing and academic probation that kicks in if you get below a 2.00, but I'm not sure exactly how it works.

ETA: And if you fail a course, you can apply for re-admission, but it's not a guarantee.

for the new incoming classes they changed the minimum GPA to 2.5 and if you fail a class you are kicked out. That is what we were told. We were also told that the quality point deficiency system is no longer used for incoming classes.

 

[Catdreamer]

yikes. no ifs, ands, buts? is that semester GPA or overall?

what's their policy on flunking a class? I felt like when I was looking at them they made it sound like they were super accommodating and really wanted to help their students, so I'm just surprised by what you posted

don't get me wrong it sucks that it is that high but one would really have to try and get a GPA below 2.5. I mean if one had personal issues than I could see how it could happen but if you actually try at the classes it is near impossible. The professors/doctors are all WILLING to help you pass the class and not fail. They do really try their hardest as long as they see that you are also trying your hardest.

I hope I didn't leave a negative impression of ISU because there really are amazing doctors here who know their **** and want you to succeed!!

 

[Trilt]

don't get me wrong it sucks that it is that high but one would really have to try and get a GPA below 2.5. I mean if one had personal issues than I could see how it could happen but if you actually try at the classes it is near impossible. The professors/doctors are all WILLING to help you pass the class and not fail. They do really try their hardest as long as they see that you are also trying your hardest.

I hope I didn't leave a negative impression of ISU because there really are amazing doctors here who know their **** and want you to succeed!!

A 2.5 is half Bs, half Cs. You think people would have to try to get below that?

 

[Emiloo4]

The professors/doctors are all WILLING to help you pass the class and not fail.

Consider yourself lucky.

 

[Emiloo4]

A 2.5 is half Bs, half Cs. You think people would have to try to get below that?

👍 I know several people who have 2.6s after their first semester and they busted their butts to get that.

 

[cowgirla]

I mean if one had personal issues than I could see how it could happen but if you actually try at the classes it is near impossible!

Vet students aren't robots. Personal crap does happen which is why I'm surprised its so high, and why I asked if that was a "no ifs ands or buts" type of deal.. It would really suck if you had all heck breaking loose in your personal life, still managed to pass all your classes by busting your butt, and got kicked out because your GPA for that semester was a 2.4.
And heck, I know plenty of people at various schools who have gotten GPA's around there without having to deal with things outside vet school. Apparently C's no longer ='s Degree?

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

don't get me wrong it sucks that it is that high but one would really have to try and get a GPA below 2.5. I mean if one had personal issues than I could see how it could happen but if you actually try at the classes it is near impossible. The professors/doctors are all WILLING to help you pass the class and not fail. They do really try their hardest as long as they see that you are also trying your hardest.

I hope I didn't leave a negative impression of ISU because there really are amazing doctors here who know their **** and want you to succeed!!

And how many years of vet school have you finished? Oh, you're a pre-vet. I'm guessing none.

This is an incredibly elitist statement from someone with little experience.

Wait until the material really starts coming around second year. You'll see how easy it is to get overwhelmed. Some of the smartest people I know floundered terribly during school.

And no, professors are not always willing to hold your hand and spoon feed you to get you to pass. In fact, it is often the opposite.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

Unfortunately getting a competitive residency is highly GPA dependent. I am currently going through the match process and have spent a bunch of time interviewing at various institutions (all academic). They have all indicated that one of the first criteria they use to rank applicants is your GPA and class rank. Several of the institutions indicated they frequently do not read the applicants PS or LORs (as many institutions get 150+ applicants for one spot).

The other big factor they placed on rank order was wether the person visited the institution. LORs from people they knew, or word of mouth may aid (or in the case of a bad review, destroy) the applicant.

My 2 cents.

This completely depends on the program and the residency.

Some programs prefer applicants who have demonstrated repeated ability in the field through externships, electives, and special rotations, as well as letters of recommendation, over plain GPA. A 4.0 and #1 class rank without significant pathology experience would get you laughed out of my program, for example. And I know, because we've rejected people with amazing stats because their LoRs were mediocre and they had little experience outside the classroom. Surgery is more "uptight" about it, I will admit, which is silly to me.

However, your point about visiting the place is very correct.

 

[philomycus]

So I've heard very little info on the topic of how important grades really are once you're in vet school (except for c=dvm) which I know is true, but in the current job market, etc, in your experience, how important are vet school grades in terms of jobs after graduation or internships/possible residency? No one at our school during orientation or anything has really mentioned this at all yet, and I don't want it to be too late to get really good grades?

In terms of jobs? Not very. I've had 6 interviews already and I'm expecting to get 3+ offers. It's not my grades that they are interested in- its many other things. In my interview experience, the job market right now seems to want diversity, experience, maturity. There's too many SA practitioners out b/c the economy stinks. They want to see that will set you apart. It's like applying to vet school all over again.....