importance of student groups

[spiceonice]

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Hey guys,

I'm a first year med student and I am interested in some very competitive residencies. When applying to places, how important is involvement in student groups on a CV? I am considering joining some just to join them, but a lot of the specialties I'm interested in don't have groups at my school, and I'm not into the politics in running for being a student leader or something like that. If I have good grades, good boards scores, research, etc, is it really going to matter if I join groups or not?

Thanks for your input.

 

[DrZeke]

Hey guys,

I'm a first year med student and I am interested in some very competitive residencies. When applying to places, how important is involvement in student groups on a CV? I am considering joining some just to join them, but a lot of the specialties I'm interested in don't have groups at my school, and I'm not into the politics in running for being a student leader or something like that. If I have good grades, good boards scores, research, etc, is it really going to matter if I join groups or not? The reason I ask so early is that a lot of the leadership positions last the entire four years.

Thanks for your input.
Stephanie

I'm no expert, but I think the big things for certain residencies are:

1) STEP 1 - A good score won't guarantee you the spot, but a bad score will keep you out of the running

2) 3rd year grades (1st and 2nd are supposedly an afterthought, but for some residencies like the most competitive,they might still look)

3) Research - more and more programs that are competitive - even the top places to go for less competitive specialties - are looking for people that have research experience.

4) Extra-curricular activities - Ok, this isn't like super important in some people's opions, but I think this comes down to the person that you project at an interview and what your record says about you. For example:

If you're going to ob-gyn or international medicine/social medicine and you ran a free clinic at your school or helped work on a women's clinic (I do 🙂) then that looks pretty awesome.

When it comes to student groups, my advice is pick something that you can be passionate about at the time. I knew a kid who ran the ENT interest group at my school and made some great connections. In the end he decided on internal medicine, but I'm sure he still go great references from some of the people he worked with and showed leadership. You can always change your mind. Just don't work on student groups that you don't give two ****s about! That's the worst and you end up hating your life 🙂

If you aren't sure about these positions that last four years, try and get involved in a different way. At my school the hospitals are really close by and we can shadow WHOEVER we want. Shadow people, spend time with them or try doing a research project/case report with them. Those things aren't that hard if your schedule isn't 9-5pm and you learn more about what you want, make good connections and possibly get a LOR out of it.

Good luck.

 

[phoenix0610]

Echoing the above poster, I think the most important thing you can get out of student interest groups are A. exposure to the field you're interested in, and B. networking--mixing and mingling with residents, program directors, etc. If you're applying for a competitive residency everybody is going to have a stellar academic record you have to do something to stand out. Even if your residency of choice isn't so competitive, you'll gain valuable experience.

Just my $0.02

 

[njbmd]

Hey guys,

I'm a first year med student and I am interested in some very competitive residencies. When applying to places, how important is involvement in student groups on a CV? I am considering joining some just to join them, but a lot of the specialties I'm interested in don't have groups at my school, and I'm not into the politics in running for being a student leader or something like that. If I have good grades, good boards scores, research, etc, is it really going to matter if I join groups or not? The reason I ask so early is that a lot of the leadership positions last the entire four years.

Thanks for your input.
Stephanie

For the most part, your academics are your ticket into a competitive residency. The most important is Step I, then your clinical grades and evaluations and finally, you LORs. Joining a bunch of campus groups is not particularly useful.

 

[TexasTriathlete]

One of the surgeons I used to work with, and still keep in touch with to some degree, is in charge of a lot of the education stuff at the hospital where I worked, and used to be the program director of an internship program at, I believe, Ben Taub Hospital in Houston (for those of you who aren't familiar with the facility, it is a pretty big name).

I e-mailed him, asking almost this exact question, and here was his response:

1. Boards. Also mentioned that I should take USMLE, since I am at an osteopathic school.

2. Clinical grades. Said he looked for applicants with no grade less than a B, or the equivalent.

3. No classes repeated due to failure.

4. Other stuff. Its nice, but usually will not be a big deal, and will not make up for deficiency in the other areas.

 

[PeepshowJohnny]

They won't help you get into a competitive residency. Do them because you're interested, not because you think you need to do them. That time would be higher yield with research or studying.

Interest groups CAN help you make a connection to someone in your field, but being president of the "X Interest Group" isn't going to impress anyone.

 

[vtucci]

Competitive residencies can look at ECs for level of interest and leadership potential.

 

[spiceonice]

Thanks for the advice so far. The problem is, my school is pretty small, focusing on primary care, and a lot of the kids aren't looking at the same specialties that I am. So for me, it would be pointless to join a family medicine group or something, because I don't want to meet important people in family medicine. I feel at a disadvantage because I'm looking for opportunities to meet people in the fields I'm interested in, usually groups allow that, but I have to find an alternative way.

 

[Dr Roboto]

Recently at my school, a panel of doctors representing your standard competitive residencies was set up to answer questions from MS1. But the specialty I am interested in wasn't one of them. So I emailed the dean and asked if another panel will be happening in the near future. Not only did she say yes, she also asked me what specialty it is and offered to set up a meeting with a faculty from the dept for me. Needless to say I was impressed. So try talking to your dean and see if he/she can do the same for you.

 

[ChubbyChaser]

2. Clinical grades. Said he looked for applicants with no grade less than a B, or the equivalent.

Lemme preface this by saying, I really dont know what I wanna do, but I dont wanna rule anything out just yet.

But how does this "nothing less than a B" equate when the school is just H/P/F with only like 10% of students getting honors??

 

[bigdan]

I'd say do the club thing.

I ran our school's anesthesia group, and I think it's paid off in spades. First, as a few folks have mentioned, you get to press the flesh with faculty. If you're thinking of a super-duper competitive residency (Plastics, Derm, etc), I fail to see how you can go wrong running an interest group - especially if you start the interest group, and you get in during year one...I absolutely agree that the group won't get you an interview or make up for deficiencies, but I really do believe that you might get the nod in a rank list at your home program if they know you as the guy/gal "that's been interested for four years". I don't think I can overstate the importance of having a faculty member that is on your side when you're applying to residency - you hit the jackpot when they say "Let me know if I can call a friend at X program for you". Laying this groundwork is huge, and I would hazard a guess that having the right person call the right place is as good as a great Step I score.

The other thing is that, at our school at least, AOA nominations are not exclusively for the top 16% of our class based ONLY on test scores/grades - my class just had one or two very notable omissions in our AOA group, and one might argue that it's because they did nothing outside their scholastic responsibility

Whatever you wanna do man, but I very much enjoyed doing "the group thing".

 

[silas2642]

Hey guys,

I'm a first year med student and I am interested in some very competitive residencies. When applying to places, how important is involvement in student groups on a CV? I am considering joining some just to join them, but a lot of the specialties I'm interested in don't have groups at my school, and I'm not into the politics in running for being a student leader or something like that. If I have good grades, good boards scores, research, etc, is it really going to matter if I join groups or not? The reason I ask so early is that a lot of the leadership positions last the entire four years.

Thanks for your input.
Stephanie

They're a good way to meet people and learn about different fields, and they are a fantastic way to get a free meal, but as far as making you more competitive for residency; I don't think anyone cares. Applying for residency isn't like applying to medical school; PD's don't care about your extracurriculars like they do when they are evaluating you for medical school-- they care about your clinical grades and they care about your step one scores. Research is gravy.

 

[JeffLebowski]

I'd say do the club thing.

I ran our school's anesthesia group, and I think it's paid off in spades. First, as a few folks have mentioned, you get to press the flesh with faculty. If you're thinking of a super-duper competitive residency (Plastics, Derm, etc), I fail to see how you can go wrong running an interest group - especially if you start the interest group, and you get in during year one...I absolutely agree that the group won't get you an interview or make up for deficiencies, but I really do believe that you might get the nod in a rank list at your home program if they know you as the guy/gal "that's been interested for four years". I don't think I can overstate the importance of having a faculty member that is on your side when you're applying to residency - you hit the jackpot when they say "Let me know if I can call a friend at X program for you". Laying this groundwork is huge, and I would hazard a guess that having the right person call the right place is as good as a great Step I score.

The other thing is that, at our school at least, AOA nominations are not exclusively for the top 16% of our class based ONLY on test scores/grades - my class just had one or two very notable omissions in our AOA group, and one might argue that it's because they did nothing outside their scholastic responsibility

Whatever you wanna do man, but I very much enjoyed doing "the group thing".

You know I gotta say, it makes me a little uncomfortable that people might be out there working the angles & connections & edges so hard, partly because based on my school's subjective lack in clinical notoriety, that's something I doubt I'll have come time to apply for residency, and I'd really prefer we were considered based on merit and character, rather than by who could pull the best strings.

 

[phoenix0610]

You know I gotta say, it makes me a little uncomfortable that people might be out there working the angles & connections & edges so hard, partly because based on my school's subjective lack in clinical notoriety, that's something I doubt I'll have come time to apply for residency, and I'd really prefer we were considered based on merit and character, rather than by who could pull the best strings.

But then you realize its 2008, in the good ol US of A..if you've got it, you've got it, but having an advocate that has a few more letters behind their name than you do never hurt anybody.

 

[TexasTriathlete]

Lemme preface this by saying, I really dont know what I wanna do, but I dont wanna rule anything out just yet.

But how does this "nothing less than a B" equate when the school is just H/P/F with only like 10% of students getting honors??

His exact quote was "B/high pass". If a given school does not offer such a designation, I'm sure they'd use whatever is comparable.