eddie269

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After spending 2-3 yrs applying for pharmacy school, I’ve picked up some great tips. Here are some easy ways for improving your chances of getting into pharmacy school.

1. APPLY EARLY!!!
-This part always bugs the S**T out of me. We as students get so caught up in our classes that we neglect the MOST IMPORTANT factor of our application: GETTING IT DONE ASAP! We pull all nighters, spend all day at the library, do research, etc that we usually procrastinate with our app’s. BIG MISTAKE! Remember, you’re not done until it’s COMPLETE!

Here’s my tip: A school’s deadline for early applications may be October 1st, BUT YOUR DEADLINE should be 1-2 weeks after their application becomes AVAILABLE!! (Usually June-July)

With that being said, COMPLETE your pharmCAS app. before August rolls around. Get your letters of rec’s done ASAP! These can take 1-2 months depending on the person so ask early. I asked back in May. Also, get those transcript requests in by June. I sent mine in right after I took my last final! Just know that June should be the biggest month for you and not October like everyone else!

2. Look into schools with rolling admissions.
- Now this part continues with tip #1. Think about it. A school will accept 100 students and they’ll easily receive close to 1500-2000 applications when it’s all done. Wouldn’t you want them to review your application when 100 seats are open versus when only 10 seats are left? If your GPA and PCAT are avg, the adcom will be more accepting when they have more spots left.

While those 4.0/90 PCAT guys are procrastinating, your 3.0 / 75 PCAT app. is being reviewed by the adcom! So in reality, you’re not competing with that 4.0 guy. They review them as they receive them so earlier the better. If traffic starts at 5pm, wouldn’t you want to leave work at 4pm if possible? :D

3. Strongly consider out of state private schools.
- I know a lot of people have their hearts set on “staying home” but realistically, one should apply to a wide range of schools to increase their chances. Private schools have no pressure to accept residents so this is good for you!

4. Strongly consider NEWER pharmacy schools.
- I know a lot of people shy away from these pre-candidate/candidate status schools, but they are a lot easier to get into. They are brand new (less than 4 yrs existence) so they cannot be as picky with their students. Look at ACPE’s webpage and seek out those newer schools. Just remember UCSF was once starting out too.

If you are nervous about the HICP debacle, keep these Q’s in mind. Does the new school have other established healthcare programs (nursing, medicine, optometry, etc)? Does the new school come from a strong undergrad institution? Has the new school’s other programs been around for a long time? Just remember HICP was a standalone school with no other programs. It was literally a new building and they didn’t follow the rules (accepted over 200 students for 1st class, didn’t hire enough professors, etc). The ONLY other school that applied as a standalone school and was successful is USN in Las Vegas. HICP tried to copy them (even stole their website layout) but failed.

5. Use RATEMYPROFESSORS.COM to decide what professor to take.
-Many times I hear “Man, this isn’t fair, my friend took chem. I the same semester with me but he took it with Prof. A and I had Prof. B. He breezed through with an A+++ while I struggled to get a C.” Well, he probably had an easier teacher. By using the website, you would’ve known who to avoid. I started using this website 2.5 yrs ago, and I never gotten a C ever again! =)

6. Pharmacy experience/extra-curric’s/community service: DO IT!!
- I’m surprised at how many people get in every year but have never step foot inside a pharmacy. This will definitely beef up your application and you will also learn what you’re getting yourself into! And get involved in clubs and do community service! I personally enjoyed this part and when I told my interviewer “I like helping people in my community,” I was able to back it up with my comm. service activities!



Ok, that’s all I have for now. Hope this helps the applicants for next year. If anyone has anymore tips, feel free to add!
 
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TennisBoy78

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Eddie, this is great advice. We are both into Pharmacy School for this next year. I applied everyone of your principles. (I majored in Econ like you, so I guess we think alike).

I would also like to add something that I did. People should not be afraid to contact schools directly and request a school to assess your chances before you apply to that school. In my situation, my PCAT is a little over average, but nowhere close to 80/90%. However, my GPA is above average, I have a degree, and I am a Certified Pharm Tech with pharmacy experience. Before applying to a school, I would call and tell them everything about my file. Then I would pose the hypothetical question, "How are my chances." No school can definitively say "Yes" or "No", but they can tell you what they've done in past years. Through doing this, I found out which schools to apply to as well as which schools to avoid. Yes, I can take the PCAT 20 times to get a competitive score (which takes years to do) or I can focus that energy on knowing where to apply. Which one would you do?

It also helps to visit schools closeby if you have a chance because you can meet faculty making the decision. This is great for you because they are able to see your motivation in person. Also, it is a great way to get name recognition when they later review your file.

I do agree with you for your points. Case in point: I've been accepted to two schools already (out of the three schools that I have applied to, and I have declined to interview at the third only because I've already been accepted to the school that I want to attend). None of my friends have been accepted yet (some of them even have better GPAs and PCAT scores too). The major difference: None of them have pharmacy experience, and they are only now getting their applications in.

Time is money, so if you snooze, you lose.
 

PolarBear21

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I agree 100%

Tip #1 - Apply early

Tip #2 - Apply early

Tip #3 - Apply early
 

grincheola

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This is what SDN is all about. What you guys are doing is fantastic. I am so with you on these tips, especially the one about visiting the schools close by. I was wait listed last year at a school 10 minutes from my house. I will graduate this year with a BA in Biology (sort of happy I was wait-listed so I could get my degree) and I have a meeting with the admissions councilor next week at the same school to go over my application. I want them to know I am very interested in attending their school and that I am committed to it as well.

Being proactive is so important when applying to anything whether its a school or a new job. Thank you guys again for this post. I appreciate your commitment to this forum as I'm sure so many others do as well. :)
 

RX CARE

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Yea...that's deep!! Thanx people.
 

Swanchick84

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I agree with all the posts above.

As a reapplicant and a future pharm student, here's my 2 cents in the process.

1) Do not be discouraged if you didn't do well in your first year of college. Besides learning the material, part of the college process is learning how to learn. You can still overcome your past performances by doing the following:

i. Do well in your upper divs.
My best year grade-wise was my senior year. I took
challenging science upper div courses and the lowest
grade I got was a B.

ii. It's okay to retake a few courses at a JC. I know
some ppl may look down on it, but if you showed
that you can excel in upper divs, it doesn't
matter too much. Besides, it's cheaper anyways.

2) Be active in your community! If you don't have a stellar GPA, you have to make up for it in other aspects.

3) In the interview, overpreparing is just as bad as underpreparing. I had 2 interviews last year and prepared so well for them that it ended up being a negative thing. The reason is because I started to lose the natural flow and spontaneity of the moment. If I didn't say something like how I rehearsed it, I totally messed up and it was obvious.

So how should you prepare?

Study your answers so that you know it well enough in your head. Don't try to memorize word for word. Know and understand the general ideas and topics you want to discuss and go with that.

Good luck everyone!
 

josh6718

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Did anyone meet with any of the faculty prior to applying?
 

airen

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Thank you so much for the tips and advices. I've seen alot of informative, well thought out suggestions from you guys (eddie, tennisboy, polarbear, and swanchick) and just wanted to say a big THANKS!

Along the lines regarding name recognition, if the school you're interested conduct information session, I encourage you to attend them. Some of the people reviewing your file are there and available for you to talk to them. It certainly doesn't hurt to introduce yourself.
 

yangster

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Woooo, nice stuff. Thanks for the info, all of you.

If I do I'm gonna apply to a new school in FL. I never knew applying to a new school would give some kind of advantage.

I love this site!
 

benzene

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If I do I'm gonna apply to a new school in FL. I never knew applying to a new school would give some kind of advantage.

I love this site!


What's the name of the new school in FL.
 

abt04

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If I do I'm gonna apply to a new school in FL. I never knew applying to a new school would give some kind of advantage.

I love this site!


What's the name of the new school in FL.
im guessing PBA? tht is the newest so far tht just got accreditted

anyways, one piece of advice tht people forget to mention is BE YOURSELF!!!!!!
people dont understand how important it is to just be who you are rather than be what you think the adcom expect you to be. you may be surprised that the chill, laid back kind of person is what they were looking for. So no matter what, be yourself in your essays, your interview and everything. this is not to say to forget practicing or anything.. you should prepare in any way you can, but just dont leave out your true personality.
 

ForcedEntry

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If I do I'm gonna apply to a new school in FL. I never knew applying to a new school would give some kind of advantage.

I love this site!


What's the name of the new school in FL.
LECOM Bradenton
 

Swanchick84

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Great post Eddie. I'm in awe of how many hits you have gotten with this post in just one day!

17,769

That's amazing! :D
 
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eddie269

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Great post Eddie. I'm in awe of how many hits you have gotten with this post in just one day!

17,769

That's amazing! :D

Holy....I didn't even notice how many people viewed this thread. A classic thread in the making? :idea:

Glad I could help. If I knew half of the tips in this thread years ago, I think I would've gotten in my 1st time applying. Hopefully this saves people time.
 

terse

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Definitely great info in this thread. :thumbup: I gotta mark my calendar for June ;)
 

Glowwyrm

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This thread should definitely be a sticky post and/or added to the FAQ section.
 

TennisBoy78

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See, I'm thinking I should meet with them too, but aren't sure who to speak to, or what I even should talk about or say. Suggestions?

You would want to speak to an admissions officer/counselor. Find out if they have any open house dates in the near future. Tell them about your record. Find out what kind of student they are looking for. In essence, you are gaining information about the program while getting your name out to schools by meeting them, which will help you!

Let me put it this way, I approached the whole process like obtaining a job. This is more than a job though, a pharmacy school holds the keys to your future career. Can you get a job if you sit back and do nothing? Can you get a job by just filling out an application and turning it in to the secretary at the front desk? For me, I've always had to request to speak to the hiring manager to get my job. Placing an application without having the opportunity to speak to the right people has always been a waste of time for me for any job that I've ever applied for.
 

Pharm47

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Do you apply the same year that you matriculate?
No, you would start applying in June, more than a year before matriculating. Ex: I submitted application July 2006, to attend in September 2007. PharmCAS is on essentially the same schedule as AMCAS, although perhaps 2-3 months behind.
 

pharmstud07

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I absolutely love this thread. Great Job Eddie... I wish you well at Pacific! I hope to see you there next year!

Thanks again!
 

pcproduct

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Thanks for the tips. I'm only a high school senior now so my question right now is how many years would suggest that I spend on my pre pharmacy program?
 

pharmdusn

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Thanks to ALL of you who have contributed to some of these great tips for us. I for one have already called the school I am interested in for a campus visit. My experience so far has been very positive. They are very willing to sit and meet with me. All I need to do is finalize my flight arrangements and Yes private schools even out of state are worth looking into.

Now for you in high sch, find a 0-6 program. Through my experience I do not see the need for going to do prepharm. Try a 0-6 FIRST before going the other route. Only my 2 Cents
 

ButlerPharm.D.

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A 0+6 program is a six year program designed for high school students that know they want to pursue a career in pharmacy. You apply to a 0+6 program as a senior in high school and if you are accepted you will attend that school (or a school with a reciprocity agreement) for a total of six years during which time you will complete both your pre-pharmacy and professional pharmacy courses...you take 2 years to complete you pre-pharmacy courses and 4 years to complete the professional phase of the program.
 

DHS1

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A 0+6 program is a six year program designed for high school students that know they want to pursue a career in pharmacy. You apply to a 0+6 program as a senior in high school and if you are accepted you will attend that school (or a school with a reciprocity agreement) for a total of six years during which time you will complete both your pre-pharmacy and professional pharmacy courses...you take 2 years to complete you pre-pharmacy courses and 4 years to complete the professional phase of the program.
Do you know any colleges that do this 0-6 program? Also, you still need to go to a pharmacy school after this, right? Or when you're done with the 0-6 programs, you can go apply at walgreens and start making 85k+ a year already?
 

ageldred

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Do you know any colleges that do this 0-6 program? Also, you still need to go to a pharmacy school after this, right? Or when you're done with the 0-6 programs, you can go apply at walgreens and start making 85k+ a year already?

No the 0-6 program is 2 years of pre-pharm and 4 years of pharmacy school. So when you're done with that you have your PharmD and then you get (take Naplex etc) your license from the state you want to practice in and you're good. There are a few out there....the one in Florida is Florida A&M University. Others have been mentioned on the board but I don't know which ones for sure.
 

ButlerPharm.D.

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Albany College of Pharmacy www.acp.edu
Duquesne University www.pharmacy.duq.edu/
Florida A & M University www.pharmacy.famu.edu
Hampton University www.hamptonu.edu/academics/schools/pharmacy/index.htm
Massachusetts - Boston www.mcphs.edu
Northeastern University www.bouve.neu.edu/pharmacy
Ohio Northern University www.onu.edu/pharmacy
Philadelphia www.usip.edu/academics/pharmacy.html
Rutgers University pharmacy.rutgers.edu
St. John's University www.stjohns.edu
St. Louis College of Pharmacy www.stlcop.edu
University of Findlay www.findlay.edu/
University of Mississippi www.pharmacy.olemiss.edu
University of Rhode Island www.uri.edu/pharmacy/
Butler University www.butler.edu/cophs
 

collegegirl247

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I am applying to pharm school currently, if I don't get in am I better off retaking undergraduate classes to up my gpa or going for my masters in biomedical science??

Chances are if I just retake undergrad classes I will end up with a great GPA, but if I go for my masters it may look better...which would give me more of a competitive advantage?? Thanks!
 
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eddie269

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Its' up to you. As long as you get A's in all your classes, I don't think it matters too much. Of course if you get a Master's, it will look more impressive, but it will cost a lot more also.

I personally want a masters in health admin. and if I didn't get in this year, I would've probably done the masters. But that's more because I want to and not cause I have to.
 

collegegirl247

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Its' up to you. As long as you get A's in all your classes, I don't think it matters too much. Of course if you get a Master's, it will look more impressive, but it will cost a lot more also.

I personally want a masters in health admin. and if I didn't get in this year, I would've probably done the masters. But that's more because I want to and not cause I have to.

Well, costs aside...you still think that I would be better off repeating undergraduate classes to replace some of my lower grades?
 

LedHeparin

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Well, costs aside...you still think that I would be better off repeating undergraduate classes to replace some of my lower grades?
From my own experiences, i would repeat any course that are pre-reqs and that you got a C in. For me, it was O-chem I, II, and Calculus. I applied last year to pharm schools and got no invites for interviews with these grades. Now this year after retaking these courses, and i took some others like stats, pre cal, and Advanced Organic Chem, I have three interviews and one acceptance so far ([SIZE=-1]Shenandoah). Also experience in pharmacy and volunteer work is good. I shadowed both a clinical and hospital pharm while working as a tech.[/SIZE]
 

Mentis

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To reiterate, apply early. If the school has rolling admissions, you increase your chances by a lot.
 

Idesiretosling

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Never be afraid to give a school a call if you have a question. Getting your name into an admission advisor's head helps to make your application that much more personal.
Also like people have said above, getting C grades are for when you get into Pharmacy School not before you get in! I know its easier said than done, sometimes the library feels like a deep dark dungeon but there is light at the end of the tunnel if you pull the grades.

Something that I never did was talk to professors, I never went to office hours or spoke with them after class or asked many questions in class, so when it came to LOR time I was scared. Luckily if you do really well in their class they will forgive the fact that you are basically a stranger to them and still write you a letter. But that is a risky way to go, better off getting to know a professor or two so they can write you a heart felt , awesome recommendation! I know they are scary but just walk into their office hours and ask a question and chat a little about their research or the weather.

PharmCas is not perfect so get all information to them early!!!!! Because if they mess up it is still you who pays the price. Also many registrar offices are very very slow so order so transcripts super early in the term or pay priority shipping on them.

At the interview, Shoes and Belts should MATCH! No white socks people!

It is your future, family and friends give advice, you make the decisions, so do what you think will make you smile and kick some ass.

Wish the best to all of you who are applying or plan to apply. It was not a fun process but when you get that letter it is all worth it!
 

TMT

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Hi,
Where can one go for assistance on: (a one-stop shop)
- personal statements
- interview preparation
- research on the schools of interest
- interview essay preparation
- advice on volunteer/work/internship experiences
- advice on pharmacy organizations etc..

Thanks
 

omnione

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Hi,
Where can one go for assistance on: (a one-stop shop)
- personal statements
- interview preparation
- research on the schools of interest
- interview essay preparation
- advice on volunteer/work/internship experiences
- advice on pharmacy organizations etc..

Thanks
Nothing in life comes easy. This board has plenty of information regarding those topics you've mentioned above but you need to use the Search function on this board to look it up. It's like going to the library where you have to look for your desired books yourself, not like where the books come to you without you doing anything. :)

Other than that, the admissions counselors at your undergraduate college as well as pharmacy schools provide that type of assistance and advice too.
 

Julianne

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Hi,
Where can one go for assistance on: (a one-stop shop)
- personal statements
- interview preparation
- research on the schools of interest
- interview essay preparation
- advice on volunteer/work/internship experiences
- advice on pharmacy organizations etc..

Thanks
TMT -

omnione has given you some great advice in the post above...I just wanted to add that it's not necessary to post in several different threads at once.
 

ll248

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After spending 2-3 yrs applying for pharmacy school, I’ve picked up some great tips. Here are some easy ways for improving your chances of getting into pharmacy school.

1. APPLY EARLY!!!
-This part always bugs the S**T out of me. We as students get so caught up in our classes that we neglect the MOST IMPORTANT factor of our application: GETTING IT DONE ASAP! We pull all nighters, spend all day at the library, do research, etc that we usually procrastinate with our app’s. BIG MISTAKE! Remember, you’re not done until it’s COMPLETE!

Here’s my tip: A school’s deadline for early applications may be October 1st, BUT YOUR DEADLINE should be 1-2 weeks after their application becomes AVAILABLE!! (Usually June-July)

With that being said, COMPLETE your pharmCAS app. before August rolls around. Get your letters of rec’s done ASAP! These can take 1-2 months depending on the person so ask early. I asked back in May. Also, get those transcript requests in by June. I sent mine in right after I took my last final! Just know that June should be the biggest month for you and not October like everyone else!

2. Look into schools with rolling admissions.
- Now this part continues with tip #1. Think about it. A school will accept 100 students and they’ll easily receive close to 1500-2000 applications when it’s all done. Wouldn’t you want them to review your application when 100 seats are open versus when only 10 seats are left? If your GPA and PCAT are avg, the adcom will be more accepting when they have more spots left.

While those 4.0/90 PCAT guys are procrastinating, your 3.0 / 75 PCAT app. is being reviewed by the adcom! So in reality, you’re not competing with that 4.0 guy. They review them as they receive them so earlier the better. If traffic starts at 5pm, wouldn’t you want to leave work at 4pm if possible? :D

3. Strongly consider out of state private schools.
- I know a lot of people have their hearts set on “staying home” but realistically, one should apply to a wide range of schools to increase their chances. Private schools have no pressure to accept residents so this is good for you!

4. Strongly consider NEWER pharmacy schools.
- I know a lot of people shy away from these pre-candidate/candidate status schools, but they are a lot easier to get into. They are brand new (less than 4 yrs existence) so they cannot be as picky with their students. Look at ACPE’s webpage and seek out those newer schools. Just remember UCSF was once starting out too.

If you are nervous about the HICP debacle, keep these Q’s in mind. Does the new school have other established healthcare programs (nursing, medicine, optometry, etc)? Does the new school come from a strong undergrad institution? Has the new school’s other programs been around for a long time? Just remember HICP was a standalone school with no other programs. It was literally a new building and they didn’t follow the rules (accepted over 200 students for 1st class, didn’t hire enough professors, etc). The ONLY other school that applied as a standalone school and was successful is USN in Las Vegas. HICP tried to copy them (even stole their website layout) but failed.

5. Use RATEMYPROFESSORS.COM to decide what professor to take.
-Many times I hear “Man, this isn’t fair, my friend took chem. I the same semester with me but he took it with Prof. A and I had Prof. B. He breezed through with an A+++ while I struggled to get a C.” Well, he probably had an easier teacher. By using the website, you would’ve known who to avoid. I started using this website 2.5 yrs ago, and I never gotten a C ever again! =)

6. Pharmacy experience/extra-curric’s/community service: DO IT!!
- I’m surprised at how many people get in every year but have never step foot inside a pharmacy. This will definitely beef up your application and you will also learn what you’re getting yourself into! And get involved in clubs and do community service! I personally enjoyed this part and when I told my interviewer “I like helping people in my community,” I was able to back it up with my comm. service activities!




Ok, that’s all I have for now. Hope this helps the applicants for next year. If anyone has anymore tips, feel free to add!


I really want to apply early, but have to wait until the summer semester ends because I'm taking O-chem II this summer and PCAT this August.
Is it possible to just apply early without PCAT or pre requisites or LORs and send them as I completes these?
Not completing all the requirement courses would affect bad?
 

WestTXisGr8

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Hi,
Where can one go for assistance on: (a one-stop shop)
- personal statements
- interview preparation
- research on the schools of interest
- interview essay preparation
- advice on volunteer/work/internship experiences
- advice on pharmacy organizations etc..

Thanks
Looks like you've come to the one-stop shop already. However, it's not all going to be handed to you at the counter while you wait. Do some digging. Every one of those items have been addressed on this board in various places. Discovery is half the journey! I've gotten some great tips from reading this board, including books to read to prepare for an interview, such as "The Interview Rehearsal Book". You might check your local or school library, they may have it.
Hope that helps!
-------------------------------
"My 2 cents worth...and priced just right!"
 
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eddie269

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I really want to apply early, but have to wait until the summer semester ends because I'm taking O-chem II this summer and PCAT this August.
Is it possible to just apply early without PCAT or pre requisites or LORs and send them as I completes these?
Not completing all the requirement courses would affect bad?
DON'T WAIT!! APPLY ASAP! Most app's will review your file even if you don't have your PCAT's or all your pre-req's done yet. Submit it, get interviewed, and worse case scenario is they'll put you on hold and wait for your PCAT scores before a decision.
 

ll248

10+ Year Member
Mar 8, 2007
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Pre-Pharmacy
DON'T WAIT!! APPLY ASAP! Most app's will review your file even if you don't have your PCAT's or all your pre-req's done yet. Submit it, get interviewed, and worse case scenario is they'll put you on hold and wait for your PCAT scores before a decision.
What if I don't have pharm experience yet and am planning to have one in this summer?
What if I want to increase my GPA by taking classes this summer?
I am afraid that if I apply early they look at my "not-ready-spec" and decline me even though I still have a chance to get accepted if I increase my gpa and have a pharm experience and more LORs by this end of summer.
I can apply with all things(better gpa, more LORs, pharm experience, PCAT) ready in Oct.
Do you still suggest I should apply early in this June?
I'm confused. Help me out!:)
 

MR. C

10+ Year Member
Dec 2, 2006
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Pharmacy Student
the idea is you want your application to be on the top of the stack.. they will update your application as you go. If your GPA goes up over the summer they will most likely have that updated before interviews start anyway. But, if you wait until after the summer classes then the school may have already reviewed 500 applications and its harder to make yours stand out..

Even when you interview they will tell you to send in any updates that will better your application.. ie better PCAT scores, new grades ect.
 
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eddie269

Still in shock...
10+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Dec 19, 2003
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Status
Pharmacist
What if I don't have pharm experience yet and am planning to have one in this summer?
What if I want to increase my GPA by taking classes this summer?
I am afraid that if I apply early they look at my "not-ready-spec" and decline me even though I still have a chance to get accepted if I increase my gpa and have a pharm experience and more LORs by this end of summer.
I can apply with all things(better gpa, more LORs, pharm experience, PCAT) ready in Oct.
Do you still suggest I should apply early in this June?
I'm confused. Help me out!:)

Regarding what MR. C posted,I couldn't have said it better myself.

However, with your situation, it would be a bit more difficult because you are depending so much on your summer. Your GPA shouldn't be much of an issue since it can't change that much with 1-2 classes.

Pharmacy experience and LOR's though, that matters. I would apply ASAP anyways and then update your profile ASAP. Chances are, you won't submit your app. until August anyways and by that time, I'm sure you will have gained (or gaining) pharmacy experience.

In reality, SUBMITTING your completed application by October is still considered early. Just don't make the mistake of starting your application in October if the schools are already accepting in October. And not many schools (if any) review applications in June anyways. Sept/Oct is when they start having meetings for choosing candidates.
 

nerv12345

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Moderator Emeritus
10+ Year Member
Mar 12, 2007
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concerning rolling admissions, when do they start reviewing applications? ideally i would LOVE to apply right on june 1st...but with a busy quarter and midterms and finals..i doubt i'll be able to write a couple of personal statements

they say they begin looking at applications as they come in. do they have liek 3 week intervals for looking at apps or do they look at apps like every day and whichever come in the day before, they evaluate

would it still be as advantageous if i applied 3-4 weeks after june 1st?
 

nerv12345

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Mar 12, 2007
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another quick question...i think it's obvious, but i would like to ask anyway:

when applying, can i apply to, let's say, four schools on one particular date and then apply to the other two or whatever on another particular date? or do all of them have to be submitted at the same time?