In a major dilemma....50/50 between Anesthesia and ER

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otacon88

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I'm beginning to get super stressed out i've been having a constant headache for a couple weeks now. I'm an MS 3, and i just cannot figure out what I want to do. I've read countless threads after threads, and still have gotten no where. Here's my thought process, any insight/advice/help is greatly appreciated.

Anesthesia: My pros - I love the OR but don't want to be a surgeon, very laid back and fits my personality type very well, enjoyed the rotation, good lifestyle, great pay, good hours, i like being in an 'intensivist' position and love acute management and thinking on my feet and fast paced atmosphere. No rounding, no tons and tons of paperwork, no clinic, no continuity.

My cons - I was never really interested in physiology or pharm in MS, and haven't bothered to learn about it much. CRNA's might take over?

ER: My pros - I love studying about this stuff, i love knowing and being able to do almost anything even though i'm not specialized, i like the fast paced atmosphere, acute setting, no continuity, SHIFT WORK! you work and then you're done, lots of time off, good pay.

My cons - seems like it might be just one huge day of clinic, lots of bs problems to deal with, have to do really crappy and weird hours that can mess with your internal clock.
 
Your "pros" for anesthesia are kinda off base. It's not a laid-back specialty (those who think so have never actually administered anesthesia.) You think you want it for what it DOESN'T offer/require: rounding, paperwork, clinic, etc, but don't seem to love it for what it DOES: physiology, pharmacology, and the like. It IS fast-paced and requires thinking on your feet, but other than that, it doesn't really fit your description of the specialty, and if you don't love the core subject matter, you'll probably be quite disappointed in the field. Last but not least, I really bemoan the idea of med students choosing our field for "good lifestyle, great pay and good hours" because anesthesia is NOT a lifestyle field-- far from it. Overnight call is frequent and stressful, every anesthetic is high-stakes with the possibility of turning bad quickly, and the obstacles range from petty (OR politics) to enormous (overall state of the field with midlevels.)

I don't want my wonderful specialty to be diluted by people seeking "the good life." People who want to have a good lifestyle but don't love anesthesia are not the people who are going to fight to keep anesthesiology a relevant, valued and important MEDICAL practice in this country. We need passionate, dedicated, committed individuals entering our field, and if you think that is you, great! From your post, however, I don't think it sounds like anesthesia is really the right fit for you. Best of luck.

I'm beginning to get super stressed out i've been having a constant headache for a couple weeks now. I'm an MS 3, and i just cannot figure out what I want to do. I've read countless threads after threads, and still have gotten no where. Here's my thought process, any insight/advice/help is greatly appreciated.

Anesthesia: My pros - I love the OR but don't want to be a surgeon, very laid back and fits my personality type very well, enjoyed the rotation, good lifestyle, great pay, good hours, i like being in an 'intensivist' position and love acute management and thinking on my feet and fast paced atmosphere. No rounding, no tons and tons of paperwork, no clinic, no continuity.

My cons - I was never really interested in physiology or pharm in MS, and haven't bothered to learn about it much. CRNA's might take over?

ER: My pros - I love studying about this stuff, i love knowing and being able to do almost anything even though i'm not specialized, i like the fast paced atmosphere, acute setting, no continuity, SHIFT WORK! you work and then you're done, lots of time off, good pay.

My cons - seems like it might be just one huge day of clinic, lots of bs problems to deal with, have to do really crappy and weird hours that can mess with your internal clock.
 
Last but not least, I really bemoan the idea of med students choosing our field for "good lifestyle, great pay and good hours" because anesthesia is NOT a lifestyle field-- far from it.

Its amazing how many med students I have recently met that have done one 2-week rotation in 3rd year and this is exactly what they think. All of a sudden they "see the light".

I don't want my wonderful specialty to be diluted by people seeking "the good life." People who want to have a good lifestyle but don't love anesthesia are not the people who are going to fight to keep anesthesiology a relevant, valued and important MEDICAL practice in this country. We need passionate, dedicated, committed individuals entering our field, and if you think that is you, great! From your post, however, I don't think it sounds like anesthesia is really the right fit for you. Best of luck.

On a side note, I was talking with an EM resident that is finishing up this year and he said that ROAD needs to be changed to RODE to include EM. He wasn't at all jealous of his friend that was in a residency in anesthesiology.
 
Otacon, you said you're a 3rd year. My advice, while contrary to that of others, is to just relax. You're overthinking it.

Arrange to do a 1 month rotation in EM, and 1 month rotation in Anesthesiology, both at the beginning of your 4th year. Then go with the one where you feel happiest at the end of the day.

Remember, you will have to do this day in and day out for the rest of your life. If you don't enjoy what you do, it'll show in your work. If you are dreading getting out of bed, or looking at your watch in the middle of the day to see how long until you go home on a routine basis, then it is probably not for you.

Once you find what you are happy doing, your mind will fill in the rest of the details by itself. The cons will seem trivial, and the pros will be magnified.

I'm human. There are days I don't want to go into work, or would rather just go home early. But these days are far and few between.

Also, if you have not finished your core rotations, try to still keep an open mind. You may be surprised at what you find you like. If you go into them with a closed mind you will not get as much out of them.
 
I google a lot of these anesthesia vs er threads. What about the following question: in which specialty am I more likely to succeed if I have a certain personality flaw. Let's say I am aspie or have some DMS social anxiety or a combination of the above. In which specialty would it hurt me more? I guess one caveat is that if there is a job shortage and politics involved, then even if I do have a good aptitude for doing my job (I don't know if I do or will), I might be the first to lose my job because of lack of networking skills. So I understand it's important to not be socially inept everywhere in life. But in which specialty is this ineptitude more likely to make u a poor clinician?
 
Bongo, I'm not sure if you're being serious, but if you are, EM and anesthesiology are probably the worst routes you can take. EM, you'll be required to gather information constantly and quickly from patients (plenty of which will be intoxicated or just incoherent because of social factors). Horrible place for someone with social anxiety.

Anesthesiology, you'll never get past the interview process. While its not a laid back field, anesthesia does have a lot of laid back, social people. Anesthesiologists like to talk, which is a necessity when you're trapped in a room with someone all day. The PDs I know are usually looking for people they could stand to work with for three years, and a social deficit is a likely a deal breaker. Beyond attendings, you'll also have to interact directly with patients on every case..

I'd suggest pathology or radiology.
 
Easiest question I've ever seen on SDN. I could write you convincing pages on why, but let me just answer your question:

Anesthesiology...

How many ER docs go into anesthesiology? Many
How many anesthesiologists go into ER? Well, the next one will be the first one I know of.

Next.
 
Bongo, I'm not sure if you're being serious, but if you are, EM and anesthesiology are probably the worst routes you can take. EM, you'll be required to gather information constantly and quickly from patients (plenty of which will be intoxicated or just incoherent because of social factors). Horrible place for someone with social anxiety.

Anesthesiology, you'll never get past the interview process. While its not a laid back field, anesthesia does have a lot of laid back, social people. Anesthesiologists like to talk, which is a necessity when you're trapped in a room with someone all day. The PDs I know are usually looking for people they could stand to work with for three years, and a social deficit is a likely a deal breaker. Beyond attendings, you'll also have to interact directly with patients on every case..

I'd suggest pathology or radiology.

I have to say I know a lot of socially inept anesthesiologists unfortunately. Maybe the just squeaked in during the low of the 90s where everyone who applied could go anywhere practically.
 
Your "pros" for anesthesia are kinda off base. It's not a laid-back specialty (those who think so have never actually administered anesthesia.) You think you want it for what it DOESN'T offer/require: rounding, paperwork, clinic, etc, but don't seem to love it for what it DOES: physiology, pharmacology, and the like. It IS fast-paced and requires thinking on your feet, but other than that, it doesn't really fit your description of the specialty, and if you don't love the core subject matter, you'll probably be quite disappointed in the field. Last but not least, I really bemoan the idea of med students choosing our field for "good lifestyle, great pay and good hours" because anesthesia is NOT a lifestyle field-- far from it. Overnight call is frequent and stressful, every anesthetic is high-stakes with the possibility of turning bad quickly, and the obstacles range from petty (OR politics) to enormous (overall state of the field with midlevels.)

I don't want my wonderful specialty to be diluted by people seeking "the good life." People who want to have a good lifestyle but don't love anesthesia are not the people who are going to fight to keep anesthesiology a relevant, valued and important MEDICAL practice in this country. We need passionate, dedicated, committed individuals entering our field, and if you think that is you, great! From your post, however, I don't think it sounds like anesthesia is really the right fit for you. Best of luck.

I agree completely. I enjoyed parmacology and physiology in medical school.
anesthesiology can very intense. You have to bring your A- game to work every day.

I think that the OP should go into EM. Why would someone who has no interest in pharm or physio consider a career in a specialty where those two subjects loom lagre.

Cambie
 
How many anesthesiologists go into ER? Well, the next one will be the first one I know of.

Next.

Guy a year behind me in EM residency did his prelim year and his CA-1 year, and applied and matched for EM during his CA-1 year (so he decided he hated the OR early). He was a competitive grad, and was doing anesthesia at a name place, and bailed out. (More to my agitas, he also was really, really successful with the ladies - not even a player, but just good on it.) Somewhere in my brain I know of others, but I can't recall at this moment.
 
I'm beginning to get super stressed out i've been having a constant headache for a couple weeks now.

If you're having physical symptoms from the stress of a non-urgent decision you get to make over a couple years, anesthesia is probably not for you.

But do some elective time, and make your decision based on what you actually like, not what you imagine each field to be.
 
If you're having physical symptoms from the stress of a non-urgent decision you get to make over a couple years, anesthesia is probably not for you.

Classic PGG.... good one.

I think students end up in this dilemma since anesthesiology is all about the experience of sitting in the pilot's seat. You really can't *know* if you like anesthesia until you have that second-to-second responsibility for another human life. There are so many pass or fail tests in anesthesia- get the IV or not, intubate or not, mask or not, keep up with the blood loss or not, figure out the crisis of the moment in time.. or not. Until you've felt enough of that responsibility to reject the idea that anesthesiology is a 'laid back field', you really have no idea what it's about. The anesthesiologists who handle stress well give the field it's 'laid back' appearance- since they make it look easy. Others run around like a beheaded chicken when the blood pressure drops 10 points. The best a med student can do is make a sort-of educated guess on interest in the field. I chose anesthesia because I WANTED that second-to-second life and death responsibility. I wanted to be one of the guys that makes it look easy. I subspecialized in pain because I don't bounce back from night call very quickly, I didn't want life and death stress every day, and wanted to be the guy who does the procedure that fixes the patient. Thus far I've been much happier with pain, although I miss the fun of the OR from time to time.

I'd like to comment on the frequently mentioned "if you like pharm and physio..." nonsense. I hated pharm and only kind-of-liked physiology as a med student. The way these subjects are presented in medical school (fire hose style) makes it 'enjoying' the subjects almost impossible. I only started enjoying these subjects when they had some day to day clinical context.

I really don't know how to encapsulate anesthesiology for the prospective applicant. Like the idea of a specialty with critical care level responsibility? Where outcomes are 99.995% favorable, yet you still feel rewarded for job well done every time? Where your treatment plan works 99.999% of the time, and because of these facts, the people who make the important decisions in healthcare think you're overqualified and want to replace you with a non-physician? Come on in!
 
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Easiest question I've ever seen on SDN. I could write you convincing pages on why, but let me just answer your question:

Anesthesiology...

How many ER docs go into anesthesiology? Many
How many anesthesiologists go into ER? Well, the next one will be the first one I know of.

Next.

How about our former program director, boarded in Gas and Pain management...defected for EM. He had his own reasons.

I wouldn't say I know of many who bail in either direction. Most EP's hate the OR, most OR lovers hate the ED. I would say to the OP, if you enjoy sphincter tightening moments and adrenaline, you'd probably be much more at home in the ED. If you want to live longer and possibly put off that quadruple bypass by about 6-8yrs then go for gas. Try not to overthink things, spend time in both places and just go with your gut instincts.

You also need to be potentially adaptable to a great deal of change in your practice over the next 10-20 years if you go for gas. That's the current chosen battleground for mid-level encroachment. The ED isn't safe from that battle, but the anesthesiology practice environment will change far before ours will. Then again, things will probably all look drastically different in another decade or 2.
 
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How about our former program director, boarded in Gas and Pain management...defected for EM. He had his own reasons.

I wouldn't say I know of many who bail in either direction. Most EP's hate the OR, most OR lovers hate the ED. I would say to the OP, if you enjoy sphincter tightening moments and adrenaline, you'd probably be much more at home in the ED.

Referring to a different poster, I was thinking more at the attending level than resident level. I know a fair number of attendings of various specialties that switched into gas. I'm sure there are those that switched out of gas, such as above, and I find it interesting to hear these stories, but I am not personally aware of any.

The ER people I knew (still can't get used to the ED thing. Will we soon be working in the OD?) all had some sort of exit strategy in their mind to get out of the hellhole as soon as possible. Don't see that so much in anesthesia.

If you aren't at a LA County type ER, the adrenaline thing is way overrated. Most of ER is extremely boring. Differentiating between a bacterial and viral cause for half of your patients really isn't that exciting. Most ER codes are a formality. Thump the chest a few times, dump some syringes in them, call it a day. OR codes are the real deal. Holy crap! What the Hell just happened on the monitor??? Throw in stuff like difficult airways and surgical screwups and you have serious potential for OR intensity. Also remember for every trauma center ER there is a trauma center OR dealing with all the same craziness.

Of course, these all only my observations; but having known hundreds in both fields, more seem to voice what I say and not vice versa.
 
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ER: My pros - I love studying about this stuff, i love knowing and being able to do almost anything even though i'm not specialized, i like the fast paced atmosphere, acute setting, no continuity, SHIFT WORK! you work and then you're done, lots of time off, good pay.

I'm doing ED shift time as part of my Intern year rotation (PGY1). Shift work really sucks. Yes, the pay is good, but I rather have regular hours then a shift that continually rotates from mornings, to afternoons, to nights.

I was interested in ED as a med student, but its a totally different game when you're working. I don't really like the jack of all trades label -- I rather be studying and specializing in one area (gas = masters of airway).

I think gas is more of my calling (love physio, pharm, procedures -- but didn't enjoy the ICU too much - too depressing) -- but only spent 1 week in anaesthethics as a med student. I have longer gas rotation at the end of the year -- so hopefully that will help make up my mind.
 
The ER people I knew (still can't get used to the ED thing. Will we soon be working in the OD?) all had some sort of exit strategy in their mind to get out of the hellhole as soon as possible. Don't see that so much in anesthesia.

If you aren't at a LA County type ER, the adrenaline thing is way overrated. Most of ER is extremely boring. Differentiating between a bacterial and viral cause for half of your patients really isn't that exciting. Most ER codes are a formality. Thump the chest a few times, dump some syringes in them, call it a day. OR codes are the real deal. Holy crap! What the Hell just happened on the monitor??? Throw in stuff like difficult airways and surgical screwups and you have serious potential for OR intensity. Also remember for every trauma center ER there is a trauma center OR dealing with all the same craziness.

Of course, these all only my observations; but having known hundreds in both fields, more seem to voice what I say and not vice versa.

Yea, you're absolutely right... The angioedema pt about to go into cardiorespiratory failure because her tongue is the size of a football needing emergent fiberoptic guided NTI that we actually don't call you guys for but do ourselves, is definitely a yawner. The bradycardic pt that we code and get a pulse back, needing external pacing then transvenous pacer floated in definitely puts me to sleep too. Coding a 17yo cheerleader who happened to get T-boned by a cracked out meth head is most definitely nothing but a formality, as well as carrying the mother who collapses in your arms as you tell her the sad news to a private room. The guy week before last that blew his LUE off with a shotgun? God, how incredibly boring we have it down there. Difficulty airways? Try the aortoesophageal fistula I saw last year after the ED shoved a blakemore tube down his throat to tamponade the massive hemorraging while intubating him through what I'm sure was one big pool of blood. We most DEF don't have difficult airways down there. After all, everyone knows that if you plan on getting in a wreck with massive trauma to your face, needing emergent intubation, you should go NPO before you leave the house, right? Can't we just cancel that case and bring him back to the Trauma bay tomorrow for a more controlled setting?

But hey, you're right. Level 1 and 2's are more exciting. Trauma is algorithmic to some degree but not brainless. The most naive thing though is the implication that the medical workups are easy, because they are much more challenging than most of the traumas. Yep, we wade through some boring stuff too, but please... I think regardless of the ED environment, we see a lot more sphincter tightening moments than you guys do. After all, it's still an ED. You don't know anything more about my work environment than I probably do about yours and that's through limited experience and heresay, so I wouldn't be naive enough to say "Gas is incredibly boring for the most part because of X, X and X..."

What I do know is that our specialty has always been and remains moderately competitive so it's attracting some bright applicants whichever way you want to slice it and we don't seem to be losing any of our residents to other specialties so damn... I guess that means some of us actually enjoy working in the chaotic hellhole of the ED. Imagine that...different strokes for different folks, what an epiphany.
 
I'm beginning to get super stressed out i've been having a constant headache for a couple weeks now. I'm an MS 3, and i just cannot figure out what I want to do. I've read countless threads after threads, and still have gotten no where. Here's my thought process, any insight/advice/help is greatly appreciated.

Anesthesia: My pros - I love the OR but don't want to be a surgeon, very laid back and fits my personality type very well, enjoyed the rotation, good lifestyle, great pay, good hours, i like being in an 'intensivist' position and love acute management and thinking on my feet and fast paced atmosphere. No rounding, no tons and tons of paperwork, no clinic, no continuity.

My cons - I was never really interested in physiology or pharm in MS, and haven't bothered to learn about it much. CRNA's might take over?

ER: My pros - I love studying about this stuff, i love knowing and being able to do almost anything even though i'm not specialized, i like the fast paced atmosphere, acute setting, no continuity, SHIFT WORK! you work and then you're done, lots of time off, good pay.

My cons - seems like it might be just one huge day of clinic, lots of bs problems to deal with, have to do really crappy and weird hours that can mess with your internal clock.

I think you just need to take the advice of some of the posters and spend time in both places then go with your gut instincts. You shouldn't have to use internal persuasive analysis to convince you of a certain specialty, it should almost be an internal instinct. Where do you enjoy being the most at the end of the day? If you thrive in chaos, don't like sitting still and enjoy constantly moving and having your brain functioning like an air traffic controller then go EM by all means, but I wouldn't say any of us really loved the OR at all. If you love the OR, that's got to mean something.

Look, I'm going to try and be as objective as possible, coming from an EM resident's point of view. Obviously, I'm biased, but just remember that no specialty is going to be perfect. Figure out the things you enjoy and try to focus on those because you're more than likely going to find things about each specialty that you end up hating. If you always focus on the aspects you love, it will make going to work easier every day. Yes, EM is great in that it's tons of varied pathology. I've never really bought into the whole jack of all trades masters of none, as I consider us to be "hopefully" masters at identifying, diagnosing, and managing virtually every pathology that has the potential to present with an acute or life threatening presentation, spanning all specialties. That's really what we are aiming to be good at. The rest of the stuff, I have no idea about. Fragile X, or treating Mycosis Fungoides, managing some of these weird metabolic disorders... forget about it. DKA, AG metabolic acidosis, Trauma, Anaphylaxis, Strokes, MI's, overdoses, toxic poisonings, splinting and reducing certain fractures, PE's, Aortic Dissections, etc.. these are things I should be very good at recognizing early or ruling out quickly and knowing how to best acutely manage these conditions. Sure, we're not experts in any particular specialty, but that's really not what emergency medicine is all about. Yes, 90% of what we see, a FM or any specialist could probably deal with just fine, and the ED is turning into one big outpatient clinic these days, but you're still going to see those 10% emergencies that an EM doc has got to be well trained to deal with.

I will say that most EM guys I know that I feel were meant for it, myself included, really just "knew" it after working in the ED. You either love it or you hate it. You're going to see a lot of social work nightmares, crack head drug seekers, crazies and you can either find humor and laugh about it or let it suck the life out of you. I haven't really met anybody that was on the fence about the ED, so follow your gut. Yes, we don't carry pagers, don't have to come back to the hospital, have tremendous amount of control over how much or how little we want to work, the pay/hrs worked ratio is great, but the schedule is very unpredictable. You'll always be working nights, days, weekends, holidays, and if you have a spouse that works the normal 9-5, off on weekends, it can be more difficult than you might expect for them to adjust to your erratic schedule. When I'm on nights, I literally see my wife in passing for days at a time. It was really hard for her at first but she's getting used to it. We don't have kids but I can imagine it being an even bigger issue. Yes, you might get to go on field trips with them, but daddy/mommy might not be home much that weekend to play if you are working nights during that time. Also, we don't have a tremendous amount of fellowship options to have much effect on drastically changing your work environment. It's pretty much high acuity ED, lower stress community settings, urgent care perhaps if you get older and want less stress, but not a lot of fellowships. Gas on the other hand.... Even if you hated the OR at the end of residency, you've got ICU, Pain, etc.. can work in a clinic, can be an intensivist, lots more options on customizing your work environment and I would say that with the lower stress level of an anesthesiologist (in general!), you could potentially work a much longer time.
I love the ED, but it's sometimes difficult for me to imagine working in a level 1 or 2 when I'm 65. I'll more than likely either be retired or in some smaller, low stress community ED, or even an urgent care center.

Just remember, no specialty is perfect. Figure out what you enjoy and try to stay focused on that. Listen to both sides and follow your instincts. Don't do it for the money as that is likely to change for all of us over the next decade.
 
Otacon, you said you're a 3rd year. My advice, while contrary to that of others, is to just relax. You're overthinking it.

Arrange to do a 1 month rotation in EM, and 1 month rotation in Anesthesiology, both at the beginning of your 4th year. Then go with the one where you feel happiest at the end of the day.

Remember, you will have to do this day in and day out for the rest of your life. If you don't enjoy what you do, it'll show in your work. If you are dreading getting out of bed, or looking at your watch in the middle of the day to see how long until you go home on a routine basis, then it is probably not for you.

Once you find what you are happy doing, your mind will fill in the rest of the details by itself. The cons will seem trivial, and the pros will be magnified.

I'm human. There are days I don't want to go into work, or would rather just go home early. But these days are far and few between.

Also, if you have not finished your core rotations, try to still keep an open mind. You may be surprised at what you find you like. If you go into them with a closed mind you will not get as much out of them.

I concur with this.

That said, deeper research into both is in order. "Forget the propaganda. Focus on finding the facts."

I can't give more advice than that. I have been in the environment I am working in since I was a young technician. I knew what I loved, and saw the good and bad of both. I have to realize my views are slanted because of that.
 
Bottom line regarding EM: if the selling point of your specialty is the large amount of time each week that you don't have to practice the specialty, it can't be that great of a job.
 
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Bottom line regarding EM: if the selling point of your specialty is the large amount of time each week that you don't have to practice the specialty, it can't be that great of a job.

I'm just a lowly M2, so forgive me, but I don't quite see how they're one and the same. Would imagine that lots of people chose their specialties based in part on the specialty's tolerance of a life outside medicine.
 
Bottom line regarding EM: if the selling point of your specialty is the large amount of time each week that you don't have to practice the specialty, it can't be that great of a job.

LOL, I'll remember that with all my time off to hike, exercise, ride my future Triumph street triple R, skydive, travel...drinking scotch while watching hula dancers in the tropics... Damn, what kind of life have I gotten myself into. I'm completely bummed out right now.
 
i was once between the two also but i just couldnt deal with the odd hours of EM, yeah they are less, but who wants to work the MAJORITY of your time when your family and everyone else is off..nights, weekends, holidays.. forget it..
 
i was once between the two also but i just couldnt deal with the odd hours of EM, yeah they are less, but who wants to work the MAJORITY of your time when your family and everyone else is off..nights, weekends, holidays.. forget it..

That's kinda where I am at now. I am definitely more than intrigued by both fields. However, I have little clinical experience thus far, and I will keep an open mind throughout my rotations. But honestly the consistent and unpredictable hours of EM already gives me anxiety/worry. The essentially guaranteed overnight shifts I don't think I would ever get used to. And what I read the other day in another post which really hit a chord with me and I don't know why I never thought of it before is the fact that if you are in EM and you are working second shift (like 3PM-11PM or 4PM-12 midnight or something along those lines), and you have school aged children, you most likely won't see them that day/when you are on those shifts because your home when they are in school and your working when they are home. I'm sure there are some EM jobs where you end up just working days but I bet those are very few and far between. And I know that gas will take overnight call which would be tough, but from everything I've heard hours will be somewhat consistently regular in gas.
 
Yea, you're absolutely right... The angioedema pt about to go into cardiorespiratory failure because her tongue is the size of a football needing emergent fiberoptic guided NTI that we actually don't call you guys for but do ourselves, is definitely a yawner. The bradycardic pt that we code and get a pulse back, needing external pacing then transvenous pacer floated in definitely puts me to sleep too. Coding a 17yo cheerleader who happened to get T-boned by a cracked out meth head is most definitely nothing but a formality, as well as carrying the mother who collapses in your arms as you tell her the sad news to a private room. The guy week before last that blew his LUE off with a shotgun? God, how incredibly boring we have it down there. Difficulty airways? Try the aortoesophageal fistula I saw last year after the ED shoved a blakemore tube down his throat to tamponade the massive hemorraging while intubating him through what I'm sure was one big pool of blood. We most DEF don't have difficult airways down there. After all, everyone knows that if you plan on getting in a wreck with massive trauma to your face, needing emergent intubation, you should go NPO before you leave the house, right? Can't we just cancel that case and bring him back to the Trauma bay tomorrow for a more controlled setting?

But hey, you're right. Level 1 and 2's are more exciting. Trauma is algorithmic to some degree but not brainless. The most naive thing though is the implication that the medical workups are easy, because they are much more challenging than most of the traumas. Yep, we wade through some boring stuff too, but please... I think regardless of the ED environment, we see a lot more sphincter tightening moments than you guys do. After all, it's still an ED. You don't know anything more about my work environment than I probably do about yours and that's through limited experience and heresay, so I wouldn't be naive enough to say "Gas is incredibly boring for the most part because of X, X and X..."

What I do know is that our specialty has always been and remains moderately competitive so it's attracting some bright applicants whichever way you want to slice it and we don't seem to be losing any of our residents to other specialties so damn... I guess that means some of us actually enjoy working in the chaotic hellhole of the ED. Imagine that...different strokes for different folks, what an epiphany.

Dude youre a resident. I have 20 years in both fields. Are you seriously kidding me with all of your sarcasm like you've seen and done it all???
 
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I'm just a lowly M2, so forgive me, but I don't quite see how they're one and the same. Would imagine that lots of people chose their specialties based in part on the specialty's tolerance of a life outside medicine.

The schedule in ER is not as good as it sounds.

A private practice anesthesiologist could easily work 6 AM to 5 PM five days a week. That's 55 hours/wk. I'll gladly take that over a 36 hour/wk rotating ER schedule where you're always either wrecked or oncoming.

Quite a few of my medical school classmates did choose ER because they thought working 36 hours/week sounded great. Most regretted their decision. The ones who did not were self proclaimed ER junkies, and kind of strange in my opinion.
 
The schedule in ER is not as good as it sounds.

A private practice anesthesiologist could easily work 6 AM to 5 PM five days a week. That's 55 hours/wk. I'll gladly take that over a 36 hour/wk rotating ER schedule where you're always either wrecked or oncoming.

Quite a few of my medical school classmates did choose ER because they thought working 36 hours/week sounded great. Most regretted their decision. The ones who did not were self proclaimed ER junkies, and kind of strange in my opinion.

Your feelings about EM are clear (even to the point that you don't think it's a true specialty - 32 years' worth of ABMS designation notwithstanding). However, I'll tell you I work straight nights, 10 shifts a month, and I am never "wrecked or oncoming". 6am-5pm M-F? What are you, nuts? I could work M-F 8-5 doing worker's comp stuff - screw that noise. Seriously - MF the M-F schedule. And your anecdotes are just that - and, quite frankly, sound tinted clearly in a direction opposite to EM.
 
Dude youre a resident. I have 20 years in both fields. Are you seriously kidding me with all of your sarcasm???

Dude, I have no clue as to your background and yes I'm about as sarcastic as they get when someone (from anesthesia no less) implies that my chosen field is nothing but extremely boring, no offense to your experience level. If you did both and ultimately are happier in Gas then more power to ya, friend. I changed careers after 30 for similar reasons though I wasn't in a medicine specialty before hand. My point is that not everyone is destined to burn out or become as jaded as you obviously were in EM, and if you have as much experience in the ED as you say you do, then you'd know there's a myriad of differing levels of practice environments. Some boring, some definitely not. I'll more than likely stay working in a level 1 or 2 center post residency while I've still got the energy and then transition to something more boring later on in life. Obviously, you picked the wrong specialty to begin with. Like I said, different strokes for different folks. I'm glad you're happier now. Just remember that all these young minds, trying to figure out the rest of their life while an M3/M4, aren't you. Your accumulated wisdom and insight is ultimately subjective and all I'm trying to do for these guys is give them a few reasons as to why EM was attractive to some of us, and why most of our attendings are still very much happy working as EP's....and that's after 20+ yrs in the field.
 
Go away...

Dude, I have no clue as to your background and yes I'm about as sarcastic as they get when someone (from anesthesia no less) implies that my chosen field is nothing but extremely boring, no offense to your experience level. If you did both and ultimately are happier in Gas then more power to ya, friend. I changed careers after 30 for similar reasons though I wasn't in a medicine specialty before hand. My point is that not everyone is destined to burn out or become as jaded as you obviously were in EM, and if you have as much experience in the ED as you say you do, then you'd know there's a myriad of differing levels of practice environments. Some boring, some definitely not. I'll more than likely stay working in a level 1 or 2 center post residency while I've still got the energy and then transition to something more boring later on in life. Obviously, you picked the wrong specialty to begin with. Like I said, different strokes for different folks. I'm glad you're happier now. Just remember that all these young minds, trying to figure out the rest of their life while an M3/M4, aren't you. Your accumulated wisdom and insight is ultimately subjective and all I'm trying to do for these guys is give them a few reasons as to why EM was attractive to some of us, and why most of our attendings are still very much happy working as EP's....and that's after 20+ yrs in the field.
 
Disclaimer: after my internship I joined the camp of those who don't regard EM as a true medical specialty.

Bottom line regarding EM: if the selling point of your specialty is the large amount of time each week that you don't have to practice the specialty, it can't be that great of a job.

Despite both of us going to medical school, I couldn't do your job and you couldn't do mine. That seems like a good definition of a specialty.

There are always med students that don't have a burning passion for one specialty and don't have the grades/scores to get into the top-tier of income:work hours specialties. So the talk then turns to the next best choice. When I was a med student, the consensus choice was anesthesia. Due to a number of factors, EM has played a larger role in this discussion. From a pure $$$:time standpoint, this makes sense. However, going into EM because of the time off is looking at things exactly backwards. The time off allows you to have the necessary intensity during your shift. And if you dislike the work, the intensity of the ED is going to make things that much more unpleasant.
 
I'm beginning to get super stressed out i've been having a constant headache for a couple weeks now. I'm an MS 3, and i just cannot figure out what I want to do. I've read countless threads after threads, and still have gotten no where. Here's my thought process, any insight/advice/help is greatly appreciated.

Anesthesia: My pros - I love the OR but don't want to be a surgeon, very laid back and fits my personality type very well, enjoyed the rotation, good lifestyle, great pay, good hours, i like being in an 'intensivist' position and love acute management and thinking on my feet and fast paced atmosphere. No rounding, no tons and tons of paperwork, no clinic, no continuity.

My cons - I was never really interested in physiology or pharm in MS, and haven't bothered to learn about it much. CRNA's might take over?

ER: My pros - I love studying about this stuff, i love knowing and being able to do almost anything even though i'm not specialized, i like the fast paced atmosphere, acute setting, no continuity, SHIFT WORK! you work and then you're done, lots of time off, good pay.

My cons - seems like it might be just one huge day of clinic, lots of bs problems to deal with, have to do really crappy and weird hours that can mess with your internal clock.

Take a deep breath and relax. You've got plenty of time to decide. Unfortunately, many medical schools consider numerous specialties (like anesthesiology, emergency, dermatology, radiology, ophthamology, sleep, radiation oncology, etc) as something you may only do on an elective month. This means that you have limited potential exposure before making up a 4th year schedule and planning the rest of your life.

It's interesting to read the pros/cons you cite. You seem more concerned about what you won't have to do rather than what you would want to do. There's nothing wrong with that at first blush, but be careful into how it molds your perception of various specialties.

When you love the subject matter, everything else falls into place. Guaranteed. You may be surprised at just how flexible the real world can be in terms of work hours, call schedules, consults, cases, and clinics. There are many inpatient and outpatient-based specialties that can be constructed to suit your job wishes. Then you can have all the down time you want to indulge in hobbies or see your family!

You really need to rotate on both these specialties firsthand rather than seek advice from junior residents and other medical students (which we all did). Obviously, more senior residents, fellows, and attendings may have more helpful perspective. Remember, most everyone loves what they do and will be quick to defend their own career choices.

Another bit of advice is that you also need to think very, very seriously about what the "finished product" is for your particular job choice and not have tunnel-vision for perceived perks in residency. Residency ends. Your practice goes on. What do you want that part of your life to be like?

Good luck.
 
I was in kind of a similar situation, with two of my top specialty considerations being ED and anesthesia. Ultimately, I picked the latter, but I can see the benefits of both.

Personally, I felt like anesthesiology had a lot of the procedures and critical care that I enjoyed in the ED, though without all the drunks, crazies, drug-seekers, pelvic exams, and ass-backwards schedules that always left me feeling tired as hell or wide awake at 4 in the morning with none of my friends around to do anything.

Hence...I chose anesthesiology.

If you prefer the shift work, the "raw diagnosis," sewing up smashed faces, doing all the OB-GYN stuff, and in general dealing with a broader array of medicine (instead of focusing more on cardio and pulmonary as with anesthesia), then maybe EM is more your bag.

Both definitely have pros and cons, as with anything.
 
I am also interested in both fields. I really enjoyed physiology 1st year and I liked the autonomic section of pharm a lot 2nd year. I also like acute care and not having to follow up on lab values for days/weeks. I am concerned I may get restless during long cases though. Did anyone who now practices anesthesiology have this concern and was it warranted at all?
 
I am concerned I may get restless during long cases though. Did anyone who now practices anesthesiology have this concern and was it warranted at all?

Ways to pass the time in an otherwise uneventful case:

1) Make little pillows out of gauze and hy-tape and position to maximize ergnomics.
2) Build catapult from tongue depressors, an IV tourniquet, and stylets. Ammo options range from spent drug bottles to used angiocath needles. Brandish before surgical team whenever they slow down for teaching.
3) Build ever more complex stopcock infusion arrays.
4) Design jaw strap pulley system to provide perfect chin lift for deep mac cases.
5) Work on single syringe drug combo for total IV anesthesia in one push.

and of course..

6) Flirt with nurses.
7) Trade stocks/options/futures.
8) Eat peanut m&ms.
9) Talk on the phone
10) Sleep
 
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Ways to pass the time in an otherwise uneventful case:

1) Make little pillows out of gauze and hy-tape and position to maximize ergnomics.
2) Build catapult from tongue depressors, an IV tourniquet, and stylets. Ammo options range from spent drug bottles to used angiocath needles. Brandish before surgical team whenever they slow down for teaching.
3) Build ever more complex stopcock infusion arrays.
4) Design jaw strap pulley system to provide perfect chin lift for deep mac cases.
5) Work on single syringe drug combo for total IV anesthesia in one push.

and of course..

6) Flirt with nurses.
7) Trade stocks/options/futures.
8) Eat peanut m&ms.
9) Talk on the phone
10) Sleep
Thanks. This post made me give myself a sinus flush with diet coke from laughing. :laugh:👍
 
i was once between the two also but i just couldnt deal with the odd hours of EM, yeah they are less, but who wants to work the MAJORITY of your time when your family and everyone else is off..nights, weekends, holidays.. forget it..

Amen. After two months of EM, I finally came to that conclusion, too. Shift work's OK when you're young and don't have any family or friends with "regular" jobs. But there reaches a point when you're the only goofball not working Wednesday at noon, and when all your friends want to hit the bar Friday night...but you're working. That's gotta get old.
 
i was once between the two also but i just couldnt deal with the odd hours of EM, yeah they are less, but who wants to work the MAJORITY of your time when your family and everyone else is off..nights, weekends, holidays.. forget it..

I am an ER attending now but switching to anesthesia. Above is only one of the reasons. The ER lifestyle is a mirage. Yes, you work fewer hours but the intensity, timing and random nature of the shifts dramatically change how they affect you.

I am hoping that anesthesia is a profession that is much more sustainable over a career and that it is not medicine itself that is becoming unpleasant.
 
I am an ER attending now but switching to anesthesia. Above is only one of the reasons. The ER lifestyle is a mirage. Yes, you work fewer hours but the intensity, timing and random nature of the shifts dramatically change how they affect you.

I am hoping that anesthesia is a profession that is much more sustainable over a career and that it is not medicine itself that is becoming unpleasant.

+1 My g/f is an er doc and even though I work almost 2x the hrs she does she's just as tired as I am. Don't forget that in ER you need to be awake and crisp for every minute of every shift. That requires timeing your naps and making sure your sleep schedule is timed just right. Even though your only working an 8hr night shift, you don't really have that day off b/c you've gotta wake up early, stay awake till afternoon, then nap, and wake up. Trust me, it ain't easy. And burnout is defiantly a factor. I know more than a few ER docs that only work 90hrs a month and hate every minute of it. At the end of the day a job is a job. It's a means to make $$ and support your lifestyle. The adrenaline rush dies down, the monotony kicks in. We all get an occasional thrill from a cool diagnosis or a life saving procedure every now and then but if thats why your in the field, you will hate it.
 
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