In a very bad situation and need your help

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Dangreman

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Hello everyone.

I need your help with how I can get into dental school in my situation. I know it's possible and it will be very tough, but I just need advice.

Freshman year of college I went to a private university and had a 3.7 GPA there. To save money, I transferred to a cheaper 4 year college. The first year in this college I did fine and maintained around a 3.3 gpa. Junior year I had problems and failed classes and my gpa dropped badly. Close to senior year, I was dismissed from my college for bad grades. Right now, to my humiliation and total ego killer, I have to go to a community college. The depression I've been through is crazy. Right now I'm in the community college getting good grades and I hope next fall the college that dismissed me will re-admit me.

Now, I know that dental school is no joke and it's hard to get in... But please bare with me and tell me what I need to do. I currently work in a dental office, shadow in a hospital and also shadow a local dentist. My DTA scores were all over 20.

Please help me with suggestions and advice.
 
Did your grades drop due to a personal reason? If so adcoms take that into consideration.
 
My grades dropped because the classes started getting harder and I didn't study well. I didn't study well because I didn't know how to and the material was tough for me.
 
I'm not being blunt to be mean, I am letting you know what to expect if/when you apply to dental school. You better come up with a better explanation for why you were dismissed from school!

The point of making us go through the rigorous science pre-requisite courses are to prove that you already know how to study and know how to deal with tough material before starting dental school. You will never have a dental school interview that doesn't center upon your grades and your dismissal.

You did well on the DAT which shows you are probably smart, but you need to demonstrate that you are hard working and motivated. You will likely have to do a masters degree or complete some sort of post-bacc program to get admitted.
 
At my last interview it struck me how quickly the interviewers looked at my file. One person was obviously skimming my personal statement for the first time while I was talking. For your situation, you need to just show a turnaround story... and it needs to be decisive enough that someone looking at your application can see it just by skimming.

So obviously you need some recent awesome grades---several semesters worth in difficult classes. A heavy course load would also work in your favor. What do you think? Do you need to know *how* to study better, or do you need more motivation?
 
At my last interview it struck me how quickly the interviewers looked at my file. One person was obviously skimming my personal statement for the first time while I was talking. For your situation, you need to just show a turnaround story... and it needs to be decisive enough that someone looking at your application can see it just by skimming.

So obviously you need some recent awesome grades---several semesters worth in difficult classes. A heavy course load would also work in your favor. What do you think? Do you need to know *how* to study better, or do you need more motivation?
It would be very helpful if you can give me some tips on how to study well so it pays off. I do study but it looks like my studying doesn't help on tests.
 
What are your current science and overall GPAs?

Whats is your AA on the DAT?

I just need advice.

Going to CC is nothing to be embarrassed about. You need to get good grades at the CC, raise your GPAs (science and overall), transfer back to a university and raise your GPAs even more. Depending on your graduating GPA you might be able to apply straight to dental school or you might have to do a masters or a post-bac.

Attached is the GPA calculator I used during undergrad to track my GPAs. The bottom line is you have to get A's but it's also important to know just how little or how much your GPA is likely to change due to those grades. Use this spreadsheet to determine how feasible it is for you to graduate with a competitive GPA.

Calculate what grades you need to obtain to graduate with a 3.5 or higher overall and science GPA. Dig down and obtain those grades. You can get into dental school with a GPA lower than 3.5, people even manage with lower than a 3.0... but they typically have an amazing life story or type of special circumstance to compensate for their low grades. If you cannot get a 3.5 GPA then what GPA can you graduate with? Start punching numbers and determine what is reasonable.

Note: I found this GPA Calculator on SDN a long time ago and no longer remember who actually made it. Also, I put 4 arbitrary classes in the spread sheet just to give you an example of how it works.

If you want it bad enough your studying habits will improve. The only other advice I can offer you is, make sure you pick your instructors wisely! You want instructors that are coherent and fair. It doesn't matter how hard you study if your teacher's lectures do not prepare you for their tests. I'm not sure if this is even an issue for you... but regardless, make sure you always research your instructors before taking their classes.

Good luck!
 

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I would suggest getting a MS or MBS degree and doing really well in it. I graduated with a 3.2 gpa from college, and decided it wasn't high enough so I did a 1 year MBS and finished with a 3.94. Although so far I only had 2 interviews (UW and UCSF), I haven't had any rejections yet. If dentistry is what you really want to pursue, there are always options.
 
It would be very helpful if you can give me some tips on how to study well so it pays off. I do study but it looks like my studying doesn't help on tests.

Having recently gone back to school and taken a lot of science all at once, as well as doing a lot of teaching extracurriculars and now working as a math/science tutor charging $60/hr... I tend to see studying through a lens of three layers

1) Understanding -- this is where you sit in class or read the material, attentively (but passively) *receiving* the information, using just enough brain power to 'get it' ... Although you may forget it by tomorrow, you understood it at least once.

2) Understanding and Memorizing -- this is where you choose the important information and repeat it to yourself in whatever way you choose---writing, self-talk, etc. The key here is not only understanding the information, but understanding it with *spaced repetition*. (There's some science on good intervals for remembering things... e.g. learning it once, then 15 minutes later, then 30 mins later, a day later, etc. But you really have to learn yourself here and know what timing is best for you. Personally, I try to nail something down immediately in class, then reacquaint myself with it several days before a test, then the night before, then immediately before. That's not the most effective, but it's my compromise with my procrastinating self.)

3) Understanding, Reorganizing, and Memorizing -- this is the most complete level of understanding. It's what professional schools are selecting for and trying to nurture in their students. You need to be able to take the material in whatever way it was presented to you (from whatever lecture or book), see for yourself an overarching context/meaning/importance of each topic, then reorganize the information *into that system you created*. Then, once you've got your own kind of organization set, you get to work on memorizing it through spaced repetition.

3 continued) There are many different ways to reorganize any given load of information. Sometimes you can be very concrete or visual---like organizing organic chemistry reactions by categories based on what their starting materials are. ("Here are 5 things I can do with alkyl halides!") Or you can be more abstract---like organizing said reactions by the mechanisms. ("Here's are some different ways a substitution nucleophilic bimolecular might unfold depending on different solvents, nucleophiles, and leaving groups.") It's up to you to chose the one your curiosity points you towards. The simple act of reorganizing makes information so much more available to you by linking it all together, rather than each tidbit being compartmentalized. At my school we had walls in the science building that were dry erase from floor to ceiling, and my friends and I would fill the wall with an entire semester's worth of information in some sort of organization we happened upon together. Not only is the information linked by a system, but it also gives everything a visual geography that just meshes with human memory better. If I was sitting at a test trying to remember something, instead of just trying to remember a random isolated fact to help me through a problem, I would see that wall in my head and try to navigate to the right information by concept or just visual memory ("hmmm I need to replace this molecule with this molecule, and that requires a such and such kind of reaction which we had on this half of the board because it was a complicated carbonyl reaction, etc. etc.)

Basically my advice can be summarized by saying: take good notes, but don't just make them a copy of what you received in class. Find an overarching system of organization (which often requires further studying beyond lecture and *gasp* reading the book), and *reorganize* your notes according to that system. Then give yourself several spaced opportunities to remember all of it. (Also make your notes visually intuitive so you can more easily *see* information and relationships in your head later on.)

...

But you can't divorce motivation from the picture. That third level of studying takes energy. It takes motivation. A lot of your motivation will depend on more permanent things about yourself... like your ingrained self image, what station in life you were raised to expect, who your role models are, etc. For example, a huge part of my self-image has been my dad's level of medical success and the learned assumption, since I was young, that I could outdo anyone in school if I felt like it. So regardless of how dearly I may want to be a dentist currently, I also have a compulsion to do well on anything that reflects on my intelligence, lest I lose that part of my identity upon which I lean fearfully. That sort of thing motivates a lot of people in school, for better or for worse.

But, there are also healthier, more learnable forms of motivation. I went back to school May 2014, started and finished all my pre-reqs and then some by August 2015 with a 4.0, then studied for the DAT in 3 weeks and got a 23. What was my motivation? I got my first degree in 2012 (in music with average grades). When I graduated, I found out that life wasn't going to hand me things anymore, my dreams weren't working, I had no real employable skills, and I was trapped in dysfunctional relationships. All those things compounded all at once in 2013/2014 and I promised myself I'd never go back to that place. I had the chance to see a lot of people go before me, the life choices they made, the places they ended up at, etc. That was a huge motivator. And when I went back to school, my perspective was totally different. Suddenly school work seemed like a rare and interesting opportunity (especially compared to "would you like a receipt today?"). And suddenly a lot of my classmates seemed lazy and childish.

That time outside of school was invaluable to me, and if you can't find it within yourself to buckle down and study, I would suggest you go spend some real time away from school completely and see how mind numbing can be the average unskilled labor and/or customer service positions. You may find yourself content in that rat race. Or you may find you have the moxie and savvy to climb the ladder of society without acute/concrete skills or accreditations. I discovered that my talents would probably be best expressed through such qualifications, so I went back to school. We'll see if it pays off tomorrow.
 
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