In need of some guidance from you all!!!

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creat4life

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Hi,

Any one has any clue on St Frances surgical residency program, Trenton, New Jersey? any inputs on call schedule, scut work, educational activities, board pass rates/ absite scores and performance of outgoing residents will be greatly appreciated.....

Thanks in advance

:luck:
 
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do these board pass rates mean anything? Sampling these, there does not seem to be much difference between the prestigious programs and many others, and you still have failures at some of these esteemed programs. But I suppose this could be a program's prelims that are bringing down the average?
 
do these board pass rates mean anything? Sampling these, there does not seem to be much difference between the prestigious programs and many others, and you still have failures at some of these esteemed programs. But I suppose this could be a program's prelims that are bringing down the average?

The sequence of board certification exams begins with the qualifying exam (the QE, "written boards," or "part 1") and ends with the certifying exam (the CE, "oral boards," or "part 2"). These are taken by graduated General Surgery residents who, at minimum, have completed a Chief Resident year in General Surgery. These are NOT taken by junior residents and not by prelim residents.

The number you see published by the American Board of Surgery in the link WS posted is simply a reflection of how many of a program's graduates in the last five years TOOK and PASSED the examinations on FIRST attempt. While it's commonly interpreted that a low pass rate is akin to a high failure rate, this may not necessarily be true. If a graduate of a particular program decides to head into a Plastic Surgery residency or a Thoracic Surgery residency, where he would be able to sit for those board certification exams WITHOUT having to pass the General Surgery board exams, then that graduate would be counted as someone who DID NOT TAKE the exam and thus contributes to a lower pass rate. The same could be said for Vascular Surgery-bound General Surgery graduates as they are also not necessarily bound to pass the General Surgery board exams to sit for the Vascular Surgery boards nowadays.

My personal feeling is that poor pass rates on the exams should prompt you to examine just why a program is having this difficulty. Is it because many of their grads are going into Plastics, Thoracic, or Vascular? Or is it something more deeply rooted in the education of a program's residents. There's always the issue of service vs. education in residency education in every program in the country. There needs to be a balance and if a program has a particularly poor pass rate, then that may be a reflection of a program's emphasis on service rather than education and that's bad for you as a trainee.
 
Hi! Thanks to everyone for nice inputs......I have never been to Trenton....., I will do some more search.....just more curious to know......what it means as a rough area.....is it safe enough???......:scared:
Thanks
 
Hi! Thanks to everyone for nice inputs......I have never been to Trenton....., I will do some more search.....just more curious to know......what it means as a rough area.....is it safe enough???......:scared:
Thanks

Trenton sucks. "Baghdad" or "Kabul" come to mind when I think of Trenton... Or is that Newark?
 
Trenton sucks. "Baghdad" or "Kabul" come to mind when I think of Trenton... Or is that Newark?

Think of Newark as Baghdad and Trenton as Kabul.

I interviewed there a million years ago. Lots of Jesus' with bleeding stigmata around the hospital. The area was lower middle class homes, dirty, unplowed (wintertime) with a prison nearby. Here is a picture:
20njzo-600.jpg


I certainly would not have felt comfortable there from a safety or beauty standpoint.
 
While it's commonly interpreted that a low pass rate is akin to a high failure rate, this may not necessarily be true. If a graduate of a particular program decides to head into a Plastic Surgery residency or a Thoracic Surgery residency, where he would be able to sit for those board certification exams WITHOUT having to pass the General Surgery board exams, then that graduate would be counted as someone who DID NOT TAKE the exam and thus contributes to a lower pass rate. The same could be said for Vascular Surgery-bound General Surgery graduates as they are also not necessarily bound to pass the General Surgery board exams to sit for the Vascular Surgery boards nowadays.

I've seen this theory before, but is there any link where it can be confirmed? Do you really believe that?

If that is the case, does somewhere like UTSW, where there's a 100% pass rate (or Harvard 95%, or Mayo 98%), make all residents sit for the boards? Surely, there are a large number of those residents from these prestigious programs going into fellowship.

As for my own program, there have been 34 graduates from 2002-2007. Eight went into fellowships where one would not typically sit for the GS boards (1 vascular, 1 CT, 6 plastics), while eight went into fellowship where one would sit for the boards (2 colorectal, 3 T/CC, 2 MI, 1 Transplant).

Now, 25 KU residents passed the QE on the first attempt for a 92%. That seems to me like the ABS only counted us for 27 people. 34-8=26, but also know that the CT guy is BC in General, so it's 34-7=27.

Now, I'll give you that the CE stats don't match up perfectly. (23 passed, 83% while 23/27=85%) And the QE/CE ratio is jacked up since it counts people who haven't taken the CE yet in the ratio.

Anyway, I believe that we got the 85% because 15% of us failed the exam, not because they went into fellowship and there's some fault in the ABS's calculations.

I also believe that programs that espouse your theory are making excuses. This isn't aimed directly at you, but rather at the programs I remember from the interview trail 3 years ago.

Sorry to include specifics from KU, but this is all info on our website and not secret, and I needed it to prove the point.
 
I agree with you SLUser. I've done the same with my residency program as well, where there are no secrets about who has and had not failed the exam, and our numbers work out about right as that on ABSurgery.
 
I've seen this theory before, but is there any link where it can be confirmed? Do you really believe that?

I don't personally believe that, no. I was merely offering a different viewpoint, one that could explain why a program of notoriety might have a poor pass rate.

I also believe that programs that espouse your theory are making excuses. This isn't aimed directly at you, but rather at the programs I remember from the interview trail 3 years ago.

I believe that as wel.
 
Hi! Thanks to everyone for nice inputs......I have never been to Trenton....., I will do some more search.....just more curious to know......what it means as a rough area.....is it safe enough???......:scared:
Thanks

Trenton is "safe" - as long as you don't go anywhere by yourself after dark.

Trenton (most of New Jersey, actually) has just had some rough times, economically. A lot of the old factories that used to be the main source of employment closed down, so a lot of people had a hard time finding work. A lot of people who live in that area are pretty poor, there is a lot of crime (quite a few gangs), a pretty high rate of drug abuse/drug dealing, and the whole area is really run down.

It could be worse though...it could be Camden. :scared:
 
Whatever the reason(s), it's still interesting to see so many 'prestigious' programs with a 5 year combined pass rates in the 70s & 80s as opposed to some less known programs (like St Barnabas) in the 95th percentile.
 
All i know is that the program is on probation. i interviewed there last year and one of the 1st year told me that they work almost 100-105 hr a week/ 16-18 hr a day. since there are only 13 residents, call schedule is Q3.

hope this helps.
 
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