In-State LSU or Columbia? Desperate for Advice

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Lajobie

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I have finally gotten off the waitlist at one of my dream schools, Columbia, but as I go to pay my deposit, the daunting reality of the cost difference is starting to make me depressed.

I am in-state for LSU so the total cost will be about 250k and my cost of living will be extremely low due to my family being there. My mom is also an LSU alum and knows at the very least I will come out with better hands than 95% of dental schools.

I wanted to go to Columbia because I am a bit of an oddball with my dental career. Dentistry in itself isn't my dream (although I am very excited to be a dentist!), rather being a clinician who invests in medical technology and improves patient outcomes on a grand scale is what keeps me up at night. At Columbia, I will do a DDS + MBA which I can not do at LSU. The MBA will be focused on entrepreneurship, private equity, and venture capitalism. The problem though is it will be about 500k after it's all said and done.

I am struggling to decide if I should withdraw my deposit from LSU and chase my dreams at Columbia. It should be worth noting that my mom is a dentist of 30+ years with 2 private practices that I will be taking over immediately after dental school. So my salary will be different than most. Assume each practice profits me 300k-400k. Is Columbia worth it or should I stick with my state school and try to snake my way to Biotech/MedTech investing over the years as just a dentist. Many don't know the rigor of dental school and may be surprised that a dentist can be and wants to be involved with medical companies.
 
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You already know what the majority of people here will tell you. Aside from financial reasons, if you are interested in general dentistry I would not pick Columbia. 500k is no joke and that's even before interest picks up. It is really up to you to decide if a possible MBA is worth an extra 250k+. To me, it is not.
 
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Lajobie said:
I have finally gotten off the waitlist at one of my dream schools, Columbia, but as I go to pay my deposit, the daunting reality of the cost difference is starting to make me depressed.

I am in-state for LSU so the total cost will be about 250k and my cost of living will be extremely low due to my family being there. My mom is also an LSU alum and knows at the very least I will come out with better hands than 95% of dental schools.

I wanted to go to Columbia because I am a bit of an oddball with my dental career. Dentistry in itself isn't my dream (although I am very excited to be a dentist!), rather being a clinician who invests in medical technology and improves patient outcomes on a grand scale is what keeps me up at night. At Columbia, I will do a DDS + MBA which I can not do at LSU. The MBA will be focused on entrepreneurship, private equity, and venture capitalism. The problem though is it will be about 500k after it's all said and done.

I am struggling to decide if I should withdraw my deposit from LSU and chase my dreams at Columbia. It should be worth noting that my mom is a dentist of 30+ years with 2 private practices that I will be taking over immediately after dental school. So my salary will be different than most. Assume each practice profits me 300k-400k. Is Columbia worth it or should I stick with my state school and try to snake my way to Biotech/MedTech investing over the years as just a dentist. Many don't know the rigor of dental school and may be surprised that a dentist can be and wants to be involved with medical companies.
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are you sure dds+mba at columbia is only $500K?
 
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macsak said:
are you sure dds+mba at columbia is only $500K?
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From older posts, the way it works is that they take a gap year between D2 and 3 year for the MBA, and I assume have to pay for that, which is another 110K+ added to the total for dental school. I’m sorry OP, but that’s simply not worth it by any stretch of the imagination. You definitely don’t need an MBA to be on the business/investing side of things when it comes to dentistry (or any field if we’re being honest). My mentor co-owns two practices and emphasized that a business degree is not needed, if you want maybe take some business classes, but def don’t pay 100K for an MBA. Even if it was free, it still wouldn’t make any sense to go to Columbia in your situation, you’re going to go straight into ownership after graduating (congrats, that’s awesome!) and could pay off LSU incredibly fast. You’ll be debt free sooner and able to invest the capital you saved by going to LSU into whatever business venture you want to pursue.
 
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Lajobie said:
I have finally gotten off the waitlist at one of my dream schools, Columbia, but as I go to pay my deposit, the daunting reality of the cost difference is starting to make me depressed.

I am in-state for LSU so the total cost will be about 250k and my cost of living will be extremely low due to my family being there. My mom is also an LSU alum and knows at the very least I will come out with better hands than 95% of dental schools.

I wanted to go to Columbia because I am a bit of an oddball with my dental career. Dentistry in itself isn't my dream (although I am very excited to be a dentist!), rather being a clinician who invests in medical technology and improves patient outcomes on a grand scale is what keeps me up at night. At Columbia, I will do a DDS + MBA which I can not do at LSU. The MBA will be focused on entrepreneurship, private equity, and venture capitalism. The problem though is it will be about 500k after it's all said and done.

I am struggling to decide if I should withdraw my deposit from LSU and chase my dreams at Columbia. It should be worth noting that my mom is a dentist of 30+ years with 2 private practices that I will be taking over immediately after dental school. So my salary will be different than most. Assume each practice profits me 300k-400k. Is Columbia worth it or should I stick with my state school and try to snake my way to Biotech/MedTech investing over the years as just a dentist. Many don't know the rigor of dental school and may be surprised that a dentist can be and wants to be involved with medical companies.
Click to expand...
I was kinda in the same mindset as you, thinking of doing something outside of dentistry.

I read all the entrepreneurial books, listened to the podcasts and did the things. I also thought about doing an MBA. However, the vast majority of business owners I know do not have an MBA nor have they ever needed an MBA. You go to a good MBA school for networking purposes so you can get into consulting. Know you P/L and overhead and that is really the main numbers you need to worry about for most small businesses. Your mom has two successful businesses and it doesn't sound like she has one.

I worked with a friend on creating a startup in my D3 year. It failed miserably. While it was still a great learning experience, I do not think having an MBA would have helped us at all. I also realized you can make a ton of money at this gig if you do it properly, and use that cash flow to work on outside businesses. Again I don't think an MBA is necessary for any of this. So just as the other posters mentioned, don't waste an extra year and hundreds of thousands on an MBA, just get your DDS and get out. Start reading lean and mean by rick kushner of comfort dental, and rick workman of heartland. You will find there is much, much higher risk (and reward) involved in business, and dentistry is a great way for a stable, comfortable cash source for you to put into other things.

also curious, what does your mom think? Is she selling you the practices or giving them to you? Is she going to retire immediately?
 
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PerioDont said:
I was kinda in the same mindset as you, thinking of doing something outside of dentistry.

I read all the entrepreneurial books, listened to the podcasts and did the things. I also thought about doing an MBA. However, the vast majority of business owners I know do not have an MBA nor have they ever needed an MBA. You go to a good MBA school for networking purposes so you can get into consulting. Know you P/L and overhead and that is really the main numbers you need to worry about for most small businesses. Your mom has two successful businesses and it doesn't sound like she has one.

I worked with a friend on creating a startup in my D3 year. It failed miserably. While it was still a great learning experience, I do not think having an MBA would have helped us at all. I also realized you can make a ton of money at this gig if you do it properly, and use that cash flow to work on outside businesses. Again I don't think an MBA is necessary for any of this. So just as the other posters mentioned, don't waste an extra year and hundreds of thousands on an MBA, just get your DDS and get out. Start reading lean and mean by rick kushner of comfort dental, and rick workman of heartland. You will find there is much, much higher risk (and reward) involved in business, and dentistry is a great way for a stable, comfortable cash source for you to put into other things.

also curious, what does your mom think? Is she selling you the practices or giving them to you? Is she going to retire immediately?
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She's just giving them to me. She'll work with me for a year after graduation to make sure I can handle the volume but afterwards she's looking to retirement. She's been at it for 30 years (35 when I graduate) so she's done with it.

She wants me to go to LSU so that she doesn't have to pay so much and she knows LSU will give me great hands. On the other hand, she knows my education goals concerning dentistry was a compromise between my ambitions to be a biotech venture capitalist and heeding to her pleas for someone to take over her practice. I really like aesthetics and am good at it (after years of having horrible acne) so that's why I like dentistry, but I really want to connect with the people who are making the big bucks by revolutionizing medical/dental technology.
 
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Lajobie said:
She's just giving them to me. She'll work with me for a year after graduation to make sure I can handle the volume but afterwards she's looking to retirement. She's been at it for 30 years (35 when I graduate) so she's done with it.

She wants me to go to LSU so that she doesn't have to pay so much and she knows LSU will give me great hands. On the other hand, she knows my education goals concerning dentistry was a compromise between my ambitions to be a biotech venture capitalist and heeding to her pleas for someone to take over her practice. I really like aesthetics and am good at it (after years of having horrible acne) so that's why I like dentistry, but I really want to connect with the people who are making the big bucks by revolutionizing medical/dental technology.
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So she is willing to give you practices and she is willing to pay for school?

Dude you have it made. Definitely LSU. You can pursue biotech with the gobs of cash you will be making.

If her practices are well run you can just sell them as well and turn a 7 figure profit.
 
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Lajobie said:
I have finally gotten off the waitlist at one of my dream schools, Columbia, but as I go to pay my deposit, the daunting reality of the cost difference is starting to make me depressed.

I am in-state for LSU so the total cost will be about 250k and my cost of living will be extremely low due to my family being there. My mom is also an LSU alum and knows at the very least I will come out with better hands than 95% of dental schools.

I wanted to go to Columbia because I am a bit of an oddball with my dental career. Dentistry in itself isn't my dream (although I am very excited to be a dentist!), rather being a clinician who invests in medical technology and improves patient outcomes on a grand scale is what keeps me up at night. At Columbia, I will do a DDS + MBA which I can not do at LSU. The MBA will be focused on entrepreneurship, private equity, and venture capitalism. The problem though is it will be about 500k after it's all said and done.

I am struggling to decide if I should withdraw my deposit from LSU and chase my dreams at Columbia. It should be worth noting that my mom is a dentist of 30+ years with 2 private practices that I will be taking over immediately after dental school. So my salary will be different than most. Assume each practice profits me 300k-400k. Is Columbia worth it or should I stick with my state school and try to snake my way to Biotech/MedTech investing over the years as just a dentist. Many don't know the rigor of dental school and may be surprised that a dentist can be and wants to be involved with medical companies.
Click to expand...
Are you already accepted to the MBA program? Does it require a second application during your D1/D2 year? Do they require the GMAT? Have you taken the GMAT yet? Do they give preference to other professional students already at Columbia or are you tossed in the same general pool of applicants as everyone else?

in short, are you in the MBA program and is it guaranteed? Or is it just your goal and you’re working towards it?
 
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I really don't think you are going to find many people who would advise in your situation to go to Columbia. Taking on substantially more debt to attend Columbia would not result in you being more equipped to handle your mother's practices in 4-5 years. Additionally to speak to an MBA, I don't see the value in it for dentists. In the finance/business world, the advantage of going to an elite MBA program at 100k+ a year is for the networking possibilities, job placement and potential for a career shift. However, very few people in these MBA programs honestly go for the finance/accounting/management education you are likely seeking. If you are going to be taking over 2 successful dental practices in the near future, you would be best served to take any free time to learn the business side of the practices from your mother directly. Sit down with her and understand how to read the practice's financial statements, learn the important metrics/ratios and get comfortable with how to manage day-to-day operations. Take advantage of your position by staying close to home; taking over 2 healthy practices early on could lead to a very high ceiling in terms of income and growth for yourself. Good luck!
 
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To my surprise, the day I sent my application withdrawal email I was offered a scholarship that makes the cost as much as LSU. In addition, I may be eligible for need-based grants which may make Columbia 40 grand cheaper than LSU. ~150,000. Still waiting for my financial aid package to be delivered but I have come to a realization which I think people on this forum need to recognize.

The rising cost of education especially in graduate schools is definitely because schools are abusing their ability to charge that, but in reality, that is a sticker price for those with low stats and are desperate for that school, wealthy families, international students, or Americans willing to shell that money with no complaints. These schools, especially with large endowments, are hoping that those people paying the sticker price will help fund other students, but as a last resort if they want you they also have a lot of money to cut your cost. Columbia, Tufts, and NYU, for example, are not poor schools by any means and they have the resources to help you but you have to ask or at least show that you ran the numbers, and the cost differences just aren't adding up. It's sad that education has become like a car dealership with sticker prices but know that there is a game to be played.

While I can not find any articles on Dental Schools doing this specifically, people in other graduate school programs such as MBA's where individuals are much more business-minded (running the numbers, doing negotiations, haggling, etc) are shocked anyone would even entertain the artificially inflated MBA sticker price and it has become common knowledge that schools do this. I spent all my time on SDN figuring out how to deal with the rising cost of Dental Schools, but a last-minute research attempt on Reddit and Poets&Quants (MBA forum) revealed to me the perspective I had been missing. I just wish more people talked about it on SDN.

This forum thread did help me out by teaching me Dental school is not worth any more than a debt to income ratio of 1.5 to 1 (maybe?) with starting average dental salary. The hard limit I placed on myself for dental school was 300,000 which made Columbia not worth it to me. BUT I got lucky in the end so yeah. I now just want to make sure other people could learn what took me about 3 weeks of anger-fueled forum searching and number crunching to discover.

Additionally, this thread has convinced me that the MBA is not worth it unless it is SEVERELY discounted. I would not even THINK of doing it unless it was 50%-60% off and even then it is highly unlikely I still would. MBA schools do give out scholarships and discounts like wildfire though so I might as well apply and see what I get. In reality, I more than likely will get enough business knowledge running my mother's practice that I can use that money towards a rental property for myself or splitting a commercial real estate property with my buddies who do real estate. So thank you for that advice as well. If the cost of an MBA + Dental from Columbia ends up being more than just LSU in-state dental then I definitely will not do it.
 
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Lajobie said:
To my surprise, the day I sent my application withdrawal email I was offered a scholarship that makes the cost as much as LSU. In addition, I may be eligible for need-based grants which may make Columbia 40 grand cheaper than LSU. ~150,000. Still waiting for my financial aid package to be delivered but I have come to a realization which I think people on this forum need to recognize.

The rising cost of education especially in graduate schools is definitely because schools are abusing their ability to charge that, but in reality, that is a sticker price for those with low stats and are desperate for that school, wealthy families, international students, or Americans willing to shell that money with no complaints. These schools, especially with large endowments, are hoping that those people paying the sticker price will help fund other students, but as a last resort if they want you they also have a lot of money to cut your cost. Columbia, Tufts, and NYU, for example, are not poor schools by any means and they have the resources to help you but you have to ask or at least show that you ran the numbers, and the cost differences just aren't adding up. It's sad that education has become like a car dealership with sticker prices but know that there is a game to be played.

While I can not find any articles on Dental Schools doing this specifically, people in other graduate school programs such as MBA's where individuals are much more business-minded (running the numbers, doing negotiations, haggling, etc) are shocked anyone would even entertain the artificially inflated MBA sticker price and it has become common knowledge that schools do this. I spent all my time on SDN figuring out how to deal with the rising cost of Dental Schools, but a last-minute research attempt on Reddit and Poets&Quants (MBA forum) revealed to me the perspective I had been missing. I just wish more people talked about it on SDN.

This forum thread did help me out by teaching me Dental school is not worth any more than a debt to income ratio of 1.5 to 1 (maybe?) with starting average dental salary. The hard limit I placed on myself for dental school was 300,000 which made Columbia not worth it to me. BUT I got lucky in the end so yeah. I now just want to make sure other people could learn what took me about 3 weeks of anger-fueled forum searching and number crunching to discover.
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Good on you for doing the research, and congrats on the scholarship, that's huge. I have a friend going to an Ivy for med school over our state school, precisely because he got a huge scholarship offer and aid package, so things like that make Ivies worth it for sure. Quite frankly the best course of action would be for schools to attach the financial aid offers students could expect when they offer admission. Would that be a more convoluted process? Sure, but if schools like Columbia, NYU, and BU are willing to give out scholarship/aid from the get go, these Help Me Decide's would be much more constructive as the prices would become decently reasonable.
 
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Lajobie said:
To my surprise, the day I sent my application withdrawal email I was offered a scholarship that makes the cost as much as LSU. In addition, I may be eligible for need-based grants which may make Columbia 40 grand cheaper than LSU. ~150,000. Still waiting for my financial aid package to be delivered but I have come to a realization which I think people on this forum need to recognize.

The rising cost of education especially in graduate schools is definitely because schools are abusing their ability to charge that, but in reality, that is a sticker price for those with low stats and are desperate for that school, wealthy families, international students, or Americans willing to shell that money with no complaints. These schools, especially with large endowments, are hoping that those people paying the sticker price will help fund other students, but as a last resort if they want you they also have a lot of money to cut your cost. Columbia, Tufts, and NYU, for example, are not poor schools by any means and they have the resources to help you but you have to ask or at least show that you ran the numbers, and the cost differences just aren't adding up. It's sad that education has become like a car dealership with sticker prices but know that there is a game to be played.

While I can not find any articles on Dental Schools doing this specifically, people in other graduate school programs such as MBA's where individuals are much more business-minded (running the numbers, doing negotiations, haggling, etc) are shocked anyone would even entertain the artificially inflated MBA sticker price and it has become common knowledge that schools do this. I spent all my time on SDN figuring out how to deal with the rising cost of Dental Schools, but a last-minute research attempt on Reddit and Poets&Quants (MBA forum) revealed to me the perspective I had been missing. I just wish more people talked about it on SDN.

This forum thread did help me out by teaching me Dental school is not worth any more than a debt to income ratio of 1.5 to 1 (maybe?) with starting average dental salary. The hard limit I placed on myself for dental school was 300,000 which made Columbia not worth it to me. BUT I got lucky in the end so yeah. I now just want to make sure other people could learn what took me about 3 weeks of anger-fueled forum searching and number crunching to discover.

Additionally, this thread has convinced me that the MBA is not worth it unless it is SEVERELY discounted. I would not even THINK of doing it unless it was 50%-60% off and even then it is highly unlikely I still would. MBA schools do give out scholarships and discounts like wildfire though so I might as well apply and see what I get. In reality, I more than likely will get enough business knowledge running my mother's practice that I can use that money towards a rental property for myself or splitting a commercial real estate property with my buddies who do real estate. So thank you for that advice as well. If the cost of an MBA + Dental from Columbia ends up being more than just LSU in-state dental then I definitely will not do it.
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Agree with all that was said about cost of dental education. Columbia offers non need-based scholarships? That is news to me 🤔
 
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Can someone tell me how Columbia offers scholarships? The thread owner was waitlisted for a long time according to him/her and still gets a significant scholarship. Does the same apply to everyone?
 
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Ummm, not necessarily applicable to Columbia but just being on the waitlist doesn't necessarily mean that you are at the bottom of the adcom's interest. Yield protection and unforeseen circumstances (aka COVID) could be reasons for withholding an acceptance from a candidate that you might not think will come to your program.

Situation: Adcom thinks that you aren't going to come to their school without a scholarship. Scholarship opens up because an incoming student decides to defer a year due to covid. Boom, accepted off of waitlist with a greater than 20K + per year scholarship to a school. [This happened to me around the end of June last year]

Also expressing further interest in the program could be another boon that changes how the adcom approaches you.

I don't know what was the case for this fellow here but if the stars lined up for him to get a scholarship from CDM then props to him.
Unlikely yes, but not unheard of.
 
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