Include 1 hour with a Vet - VMCAS?

[Lemming3]

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I know that it's important to log any and all time you get observing vets.

Having taken a dog to the vet's office includes observing the appointments etc. So, should I include, even if only one hour....taking my dog to the vet for a routine check-up, I also talked with the vet several times on the phone regarding her blood results (some abnormal)...or is just one hour with a vet not justifiable? Personally, I'm in the camp that more experience/broad is better? What do you all think?

 

[NStarz]

I don't believe veterinary medicine experienced from the perspective of a client counts as vet experience.

 

[chordy4]

No, I wouldn't include this.

That's part of being a good pet owner/care taker and I'm pretty sure vet schools specify they don't want you to include hours associated with pet care anyways.

Your role in that situation is as an animal care taker, not as a 'shadow', or assistant etc and it's not going to be the same experience, nor should it count.

 

[PearlDVM]

definitely not. 2 reasons:

1. adcoms don't want you to include experience with your personal pets (which, i know, sucks - since we probably all have a million animals)

2. only having the one hour with a particular vet/clinic may actually hurt you. they may wonder why you were only there for one hour, and why you didn't spend more time. While I am totally 100% with you on adding up every single hour - I'd avoid this one just because it won't add much, and it might actually hurt you.

If you feel strongly about how you felt after this encounter with your vet, then maybe the personal statement could encompass it. (warning tho: you don't want to sound too cliche with "i took my dog to the vet, and now I want to be a vet.") Or, maybe you could get some more hours - use this as a starting point. Approach your vet, and ask to shadow. There are some good threads on here about how to ask a vet about this. good luck! 😀

 

[twelvetigers]

Being present as a client in the exam room for an hour is definitely not worth counting. You should be there shadowing or observing for a fair part of the day before you should consider listing it on VMCAS. 🙂

 

[Lemming3]

Thanks for the help. I thought I had read about not using personal pet stuff, but I definitely wanted the confirmation from all of you.

I have other experiences to use where I have shadowed other vets, so I'll focus on them.

Thanks for the help!

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

I think you can include pet stuff only in very specific situations ie a condition your pet had (or a talent) got you *actively* involved (ie not just you) in the veterinary medicine surrounding it. For example, I got my dog involved in tracking training so she could put that nose to good use. I learned a lot from that experience in terms of behavior, etc and decided to list it. I don't know if that was a faux pas or not, but no one told me wrong. Although, I don't think you could stretch it to, say, my old cat had renal failure for years and I took care of her, thats vet experience...kinda see what I mean? But yes, I agree with the others - being a client and occasionally discussing treatment/results shouldn't be listed as experience.

 

[sumstorm]

Yeah, there is something in there about animal related activities vs straight pet ownership. I would, with dogs, almost compare it to working dogs vs pet dogs. IE my shepherd is a wilderness and urban disaster air scent SAR canine. I included SAR work, training, etc as animal experience. I didn't count the time we spent in the med tents during Katrina as vet experience. I did include the 2 day seminar I attended on canine field medicine (taught by vets and vet techs) as vet experience (it also included a certification.) I didn't include the endless hours spent grooming my cocker or treating his allergies as animal or vet experience...that was part of caring for a cocker.

 

[milkmaid]

I did put work with my own cows in the animal experience section, but I've owned a lot of bovines for a lot of years, and besides being a business they've played a large role in my interest in veterinary medicine - and one of the pre-vet advisors told me that was "kosher." All my other animals (dogs, horses, etc) went under activities since I did activities (dog shows, 4H, Pony Club, etc) with them. Animals that I didn't do an "activity" with - ie I owned 7 sheep for a year or two - I briefly mentioned in the PS (specifically, "owning my own X, sheep, Y, and Z...") but didn't include under animal experiences or activities because I didn't feel I was involved enough to warrant it.

There's been a few vets that I shadowed very briefly - ie 8 hours for one day - and I did not include it in my application. It would have to be a very special, life changing one hour in order to be worthy of being included in the application, IMO.

 

[PearlDVM]

ah - the exceptions to the rules. 😛 Yea, I do think that experiences with working animals that are also pets (like search and rescue) or with your animals that are part of a family business could be animal experience. I think they mainly want to avoid people fluffing up their hours with personal visits to the vet, or cleaning your puppy's ears. When in doubt - you can always check with the schools. If it doesn't quite fit the "animal" or "vet" section - then you could always put stuff in the extracurricular section 🙄

 

[hunterjumper12]

I listed my horse, but I've also done numerous things with him, including showing competitively for years and being very active in 4H with him. I also listed a hog I raised for show and sale one year under animal experiences, as I did workshops and clinics to prepare myself. However, I did not list my dog, as I have not really done anything with her besides take care of her and love her 🙂

 

[sofficat]

While I wouldn't add taking my dog to the vet as vet experience, I am (one of the few apparently) that DID add owning my pets as animal experience. Yeah I know some adcoms say not to but when I applied the schools didn't tell me not to. Also, I think growing up with pets is important- it gives you a lot of experience (with reading animals, training them, general animal care). Just like the cow owner, I think that is important to add- they know how to work with cows- that's a big deal! Trust me, I've seen vet students who are very uncomfortable with dogs and/or cats... and they never owned one as a pet! Just my opinion 😀

 

[sumstorm]

Just like the cow owner, I think that is important to add- they know how to work with cows- that's a big deal! Trust me, I've seen vet students who are very uncomfortable with dogs and/or cats... and they never owned one as a pet! Just my opinion 😀

It can go the opposite way too, though....animal owners may have learned lots of really bad habits that then have to be unlearned. I included livestock (but put minimal hours) because I grew up on a farm and had morning stock chores, but I also competed. some of the supplementals include sections on 'animal experience' by category. And not all vets want to do hands on practice. Do you really care if the pathologist knows about dog training?

 

[sofficat]

It can go the opposite way too, though....animal owners may have learned lots of really bad habits that then have to be unlearned. I included livestock (but put minimal hours) because I grew up on a farm and had morning stock chores, but I also competed. some of the supplementals include sections on 'animal experience' by category. And not all vets want to do hands on practice. Do you really care if the pathologist knows about dog training?

A pathologist still needs to get through vet school and clinics and be able to handle pets and give advise to owners etc. I'm not JUST talking about training. I have a few classmates that are VERY unfamiliar with cats (have never own them, never been around them) and they make it dangerous for themselves and others because of their comfort level (or lack of). They can't read them, can't restrain them or even hold them normally.
Bad habits or not I think owning pets teaches you a lot and I think it is something worth mentioning.

 

[twelvetigers]

As I've mentioned before, OKSU told me they want to see animal experience listed. Otherwise, they might assume you didn't have pets or something.

I'm still trying to decide how to reconcile this with the OTHER 10-12 schools I'm applying to...

 

[sumstorm]

A pathologist still needs to get through vet school and clinics and be able to handle pets and give advise to owners etc. I'm not JUST talking about training. I have a few classmates that are VERY unfamiliar with cats (have never own them, never been around them) and they make it dangerous for themselves and others because of their comfort level (or lack of). They can't read them, can't restrain them or even hold them normally.
Bad habits or not I think owning pets teaches you a lot and I think it is something worth mentioning.

So, let's extend you're reasoning.... you shouldn't ever consider being a LA vet if you didn't grow up working with LA because you won't have the ability to learn the skills to work around LA. Same with equine. If you grew up on a farm with livestock, but no SA, you can't do SA, either....cause that inherent skill of pet ownership isn't there? Uh oh, I'm in real trouble....didn't have any tigers roaming around at home. 🙄

We ALL have to develop some skills that we didn't have coming into vet school. I grew up with cats my entire life; I am STILL not comfortable with a fractious cat. I still dislike handling any cat that isn't my own....but I can train a tiger to accept an injection of sedatives.

I believe the issue is more whether or not someone is interested in developing the skills. We can learn proper restraint (Yin's book is great) and we can learn to read animals. I have two huge books on that just for dogs, plus a ton of film, attended lots of seminars, etc. How many folks grow up with dogs and assume all growling and biting is related to dominance? oh wait...they learned to read dogs, they heard about dominance...it must give them a leg up...lets bring out the alpha-rolls!

Someone who plans to work exclusively with equine or exclusively post-mortem may just not CARE about learning appropriate techniques, which is, depending on where they attend, a reason they may not make it through or a reason the training and education may need to be improved.

 

[StartingoverVet]

So, let's extend you're reasoning.... you shouldn't ever consider being a LA vet if you didn't grow up working with LA because you won't have the ability to learn the skills to work around LA. Same with equine. If you grew up on a farm with livestock, but no SA, you can't do SA, either....cause that inherent skill of pet ownership isn't there? Uh oh, I'm in real trouble....didn't have any tigers roaming around at home. 🙄

We ALL have to develop some skills that we didn't have coming into vet school. I grew up with cats my entire life; I am STILL not comfortable with a fractious cat. I still dislike handling any cat that isn't my own....but I can train a tiger to accept an injection of sedatives.

I believe the issue is more whether or not someone is interested in developing the skills. We can learn proper restraint (Yin's book is great) and we can learn to read animals. I have two huge books on that just for dogs, plus a ton of film, attended lots of seminars, etc. How many folks grow up with dogs and assume all growling and biting is related to dominance? oh wait...they learned to read dogs, they heard about dominance...it must give them a leg up...lets bring out the alpha-rolls!

Someone who plans to work exclusively with equine or exclusively post-mortem may just not CARE about learning appropriate techniques, which is, depending on where they attend, a reason they may not make it through or a reason the training and education may need to be improved.

Completely agree.

And I would add: vet schools are training you to be veterinary doctors. The emphasis is on medicine, not on restraining ability. Sure, it would be nice if everyone had complete comfort around the animals, but if that was the primary concern, most every tech who applied would get in(and we know that is NOT the case).

Experience around animals is nice, but it is experience observing the profession that is a must.

 

[NStarz]

Agreed with SOV and sumstorm.

I think experience around animals helps you decide what you want to work with postgrad, as well. I think someone posted a link to a study sometime about the lack of people who go into LA has to do with the fact that many people go into vet school with no LA experience. While the experience itself may not be a necessary factor, exposure to the types of animals you want to work with (companion vs. LA or equine predominantly) can help you decide how you want to use your DVM.

I think there are benefits to having handling experience, but it's not really the primary concern as the tech (in SA, anyway) is the one doing the restraining.

 

[sofficat]

So, let's extend you're reasoning.... you shouldn't ever consider being a LA vet if you didn't grow up working with LA because you won't have the ability to learn the skills to work around LA. Same with equine. If you grew up on a farm with livestock, but no SA, you can't do SA, either....cause that inherent skill of pet ownership isn't there? Uh oh, I'm in real trouble....didn't have any tigers roaming around at home. 🙄

How on EARTH did you get that from what I said?

I love how EVERY time I mention this (which I have in many other threads) people get all riled up about it.

All I am saying is owning pets adds to animal experience. Period. It doesn't mean you should or can only work with the animals you grew up with. It just means that because you grew up with a X animal, you have "animal experience" with X animal.

Also, at no point did I even hint that animal experience should in any way, shape or form replace veterinary experience.

 

[sumstorm]

Trust me, I've seen vet students who are very uncomfortable with dogs and/or cats... and they never owned one as a pet! Just my opinion 😀

A pathologist still needs to get through vet school and clinics and be able to handle pets and give advise to owners etc. I have a few classmates that are VERY unfamiliar with cats (have never own them, never been around them) and they make it dangerous for themselves and others because of their comfort level (or lack of). They can't read them, can't restrain them or even hold them normally.

You're point was that owning pets = experience = comfort = lack of danger because, in your estimate, those who didn't own pets 'can't read them, can't restrain them, or even hold then normally.'

It is possible to never own a pet in your life, or even while you are a vet, and be an excellent, competent, and skilled vet. Owning pets, particularly for those under 18, has a lot more to do with what is allowed in your family/household/orphanage/etc than what your personal desires or abilities are. If I never own a horse, it doesn't mean I don't have horse experience....and just because there is a horse at my home doesn't mean I have horse experience. The two are just not always as correlated as they were in your life.

The examples you listed are about skills, not about inherent ability. Consequently, they can be learned or not, and may not be as critical for individuals who are not planning to work hands on with animals. Let's be realistic, in a lot of zoo med, the proper restraing of an animals = chemical, or trained by a keeper, and has next to nothing to do with the vet (well, except the darting and dosing.) I took your evaluation that pet ownership = comfort, safety, ability to read, etc and extrapolated it because if it = all the things your suggesting, it is indicative of who can do what in the future. I know for me, I have to spend extra time working with horses because I am not as comfortable with them as I like...and because the experiences I do have are with extremly well trained horses so I actually have really bad habits. Another bad habit I had to unlearn; no kneeling or squating next to the oxen or horses. You will be penalized for that at our school....and trust me that after 20+ years of doing so....it is a horrible habit to break. So my livestock expereince may make me comfortable, but it actually makes me dangerous as well.

 

[sofficat]

You're point was that owning pets = experience = comfort = lack of danger because, in your estimate, those who didn't own pets 'can't read them, can't restrain them, or even hold then normally.'

In my experience, with a FEW of my classmates who never owned pets- yes- their inexperience was evident. That does NOT mean that for every other vet student in the world that same scenario applies.

Same for me and cows. I knew nothing about them, how to read them, how to handle them, etc. If I owned cows (and assuming I worked with them etc), then I had experience with them because I owned them... that equals animal experience.

Same thing with people who own exotic animals....

It is possible to never own a pet in your life, or even while you are a vet, and be an excellent, competent, and skilled vet..

no way... really?

 

[milkmaid]

It is possible to never own a pet in your life, or even while you are a vet, and be an excellent, competent, and skilled vet..

...in whose opinion? The vet's or the client's? 😛 Sure, it's possible for an extremely dedicated person to work multiple places that provide them with thousands of hours of hands-on animal experience and be competent by the end of it... but in reality, how many non-animal-owning people fit that catagory?

Worked with a cattle vet this summer that colleagues and clients both swore was extremely intelligent when it came to vet med and an amazing surgeon... but clients also said was amazingly inept when it came to handling cattle. Give the vet a scalpel and he could work magic, ask him to herd a cow from point A to point B and you'd better be ready for a circus. OK, maybe not quite that extreme, but still not too much of a stretch. It doesn't give a client a lot of confidence in your ability inside the animal if you're incompetent outside the animal.

So - I agree you could become a competent vet if you've never done extensive, hands-on-work with animals or owned an animal in your life, but only if the job description of "vet" does not extend beyond the surgery table and petri dish.

 

[Maddiegirl]

I've owned a lot of animals over many years and I'm still on the fence about what to include on my application for the animal handling experience. I don't think it would hurt to include my own personal experience with my animals especially since over the years I've worked closely with my vet to provide medical care to these animals. I've given my own shots and drawn my own blood and given medication. I can't imagine why it wouldn't count towards animal experience. Thoughts?

My question is this...does it matter how old the vet experience is?? In high school and shortly after I worked for 2 different vets for about 3 years. I worked in the kennel as a tech and also assisted with exams, surgeries, etc. I've seen the good, the bad and the ugly in veterinary medicine. Being that it was 15+ years ago, what do you think it's still relevant experience? Should I discount that old experience on my application or should I get some additional new experience and add both to my application? I don't think there is an expiration date on experience, but curious to know what others think.