Increasing chances of Residency with MSc in Biomedical Science

[Vivara]

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Hi Guys,

I intend to do my medical degree at Trinity College Dublin, which is the number one university in Ireland (and in the top 60 in the world).

I then want to do a combined residency in Neurology/Psychiatry (and would settle for either if these programs have all died out by 2019). At current, I'm looking at Columbia or NYU for my combined residency or Cornell or similar if I need to do either Neurology or Psychiatry on their own.

My question is—

Trinity offers an intercalated MSc in Biomedical Sciences at the end of the third year, full-time, and part-time in the fourth year of the medical degree. I would pick the neuroscience 'track'.

Is this worth it? Would it increase my chances of getting a residency by much? I'm aware that the USMLE scores are the primary factor. Other than this, is there anything else I can do?

So should I bother with the extra year it would take me? Or just the normal degree (which is equivalent to an MD) and then do very well in the USMLE? If it has no effect on my residency, would the extra research skills I learn be very beneficial? It doesn't look like a particularly impressive program to me.

Thanks.

Ed.

 

[QofQuimica]

It would probably be helpful to have the research experience, but you don't need to get an MS in order to do that. A lot of med students do research while in medical school. So if the main reason you'd be doing the MS is to give yourself an advantage for residency, then no, I don't think it's worth it. The only reason you should be going to grad school is because you want to go to grad school for its own sake.

 

[dl2dp2]

For the programs you are talking about, the most important piece is going to be medical experiences in the US. I would suggest you try to get observeship/rotations done at an academic medical center in the US, and get US letters of recommendations. That research degree in itself is not going to help. Masters level research is generally not useful for residency application purposes. If you are wiling to consider a PhD in the US that would be a credential that would make a difference, but I wouldn't recommend this unless you are committed to a research career. You need to explain your backstory in order for us to advise you further, i.e. where u r in terms of school, why are u applying to a US residency, etc.

 

[Vivara]

It would probably be helpful to have the research experience, but you don't need to get an MS in order to do that. A lot of med students do research while in medical school. So if the main reason you'd be doing the MS is to give yourself an advantage for residency, then no, I don't think it's worth it. The only reason you should be going to grad school is because you want to go to grad school for its own sake.

Thanks, that makes a lot of sense.

You need to explain your backstory in order for us to advise you further, i.e. where u r in terms of school, why are u applying to a US residency, etc.

Well I have two years left in what is Ireland's equivalent of High School, at the end of which I will do the Leaving Cert. examination and a HPAT (Health Professions Admission Test) test, which is used by all Medical Schools in Ireland.

Provided I work hard enough and get the results I need, I will then go to Trinity College Dublin for a five year medical degree. In Ireland, there is no need for pre-med or anything like that.

During the five years, I will hopefully being doing the different parts of the USMLE (actually, anyone who can give an accurate timeline as when to do what in relation to being a foreign student would be of great help). After that, I hope to secure the aforementioned combined residency in Neurology/Psychiatry.

I had considered going to the US immediately after High School, but since university education is free in Ireland, it doesn't make much sense to get myself into any unnecessary debt. It's also quicker in Ireland, since I don't need to do any pre-med.

The primary reason I want to go to the US is because I know several doctors in Ireland who trained in places like Cornell, Columbia and the Mayo Clinic, and they all tell me it's the way to go because of the global outlook I have. I'm not happy being stuck in Ireland (but as I said, I'm not exactly ready to leave in two years, either), and I feel any impact I make can be made on a greater scale if I do my residency in a more prestigious institution. There are huge, huge benefits to that, most people don't realise this and probably reach the conclusion that I am full of myself.

Training somewhere like this opens the doors completely, and all those above doctors have been able to get a job in any prestigious hospital in the world, and return to Ireland and get top Consultant (Attending) jobs in hospitals here.

My point is, if I can do it, and it's within my grasp, why not aim big? I have a huge interest in psychiatric conditions and I would definitely be interested in research so a PhD in something will definitely happen sometime along the line. However, I don't think I will be doing the MD/PHD route, as I am interested in become a physician as soon as possible. I really, really do have a passion for helping people.

Reading over this, it sounds like a load of rhetoric, but please God it makes some sort of sense.

Thanks for your opinons.

Ed.

 

[dl2dp2]

The primary reason I want to go to the US is because I know several doctors in Ireland who trained in places like Cornell, Columbia and the Mayo Clinic, and they all tell me it's the way to go because of the global outlook I have. I'm not happy being stuck in Ireland (but as I said, I'm not exactly ready to leave in two years, either), and I feel any impact I make can be made on a greater scale if I do my residency in a more prestigious institution. There are huge, huge benefits to that, most people don't realise this and probably reach the conclusion that I am full of myself.

Training somewhere like this opens the doors completely, and all those above doctors have been able to get a job in any prestigious hospital in the world, and return to Ireland and get top Consultant (Attending) jobs in hospitals here.

It's not that you are "full of yourself" that's the problem. The problem is you are fed false information. Physicians trained in the US, no matter where they trained, are required to take additional licensing examinations and fulfill additional training requirements in their locale of practice. For instance, it is absolutely false that a Mayo Clinic trained neurologist can immediately get a top consultant job in a hospital in ireland.

Unless there are extenuating circumstances, I would discourage you from pursuing a clinical training in the US *unless* you plan to practice medicine in the US. There may be advantages in doing research in the US, but that's a completely different issue altogether.

 

[Vivara]

It's not that you are "full of yourself" that's the problem. The problem is you are fed false information. Physicians trained in the US, no matter where they trained, are required to take additional licensing examinations and fulfill additional training requirements in their locale of practice. For instance, it is absolutely false that a Mayo Clinic trained neurologist can immediately get a top consultant job in a hospital in ireland.

Unless there are extenuating circumstances, I would discourage you from pursuing a clinical training in the US *unless* you plan to practice medicine in the US. There may be advantages in doing research in the US, but that's a completely different issue altogether.

I do plan to practice medicine in the US. There is absolutely no false information. Once I do my degree in Ireland and a year of internship in Ireland before my residency in the US, I can license myself with the Medical Council of Ireland. When I return, it's just a matter of providing a notarised copy of my training details. And I know these consultants well—one was on the faculty for two years after his residency in Cornell, and he returned and immediately got a position in a local university hospital.

Ed.