Indy vs. Cinci?

[EMRocksmyworld]

I was very, very impressed with Indy during my interview day. However, I seem to hear more about Cincinnati both from other students interviewing this year and here on SDN. Do you think Cinci is a stronger/more prestigious program, or are they just too dissimilar to compare? Any insight would be appreciated.

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[Arcan57]

They are both large, Midwestern programs with significant flight experience. Regional applicants are going to apply to both as they both have excellent reputations. Cinci has a broader network of alumni and has been around since the start of EM, and thus is more well-known on a national level. I didn't interview at Indy, but can attest to the quality of training at Cinci.

 

[chimppp]

You seem to be preoccupied with prestige (or like to use program "strength" as a euphemism for prestige). Are you really formulating your opinions based on the subjective strengths voiced by those on SDN? And Cincy vs. Indy, really? Off the top of my head, there are hundreds of differences between Cincy and Indy - location, 4 vs. 3 years, flight vs. no flight, single vs. multiple hospital systems, focus on critical care and other electives vs. less electives. Cincy is obviously the oldest program in the country, so shear logistics dictate that they have the most alumni. But Indy now has one of the largest residency programs in the country, and their grads do not have problems finding jobs. Do ANY of these make a difference to YOU? Instead of asking which of any number of programs is more prestigious, a habit that is absolutely not productive and is subject to perpetual and endless debate, why don't you determine what you want and see which program fits your interests? I am sure you can articulate your interests more eloquently than "prestige."

 

[WilcoWorld]

To answer the OP's question: Indy is "the best EM residency in the country". Cinci is "the best EM residency in the country".

There are several others as well.

 

[deleted356135]

I interviewed at both programs this year and they are each worthy of a "Top X in the country" notation. They are somewhat different, however. To respond to some of the above comments, Indiana does not do flight (helicopter) at this time due to several reasons. Cincinnati has a very flight-heavy schedule (particularly in R2 year). Indiana is a 3 year program, Cinci is a 4. It should be said that both programs have vast and powerful alumni networks and job placement would be low-stress from either program.

Both programs produce stellar EM docs and leaders in the field. You should just pick a place you would be happy.

 

[EctopicFetus]

I interviewed at both programs this year and they are each worthy of a "Top X in the country" notation. They are somewhat different, however. To respond to some of the above comments, Indiana does not do flight (helicopter) at this time due to several reasons. Cincinnati has a very flight-heavy schedule (particularly in R2 year). Indiana is a 3 year program, Cinci is a 4. It should be said that both programs have vast and powerful alumni networks and job placement would be low-stress from either program.

Both programs produce stellar EM docs and leaders in the field. You should just pick a place you would be happy.

Call me crazy but honestly job placement for a good resident from just about any program is low stress. alternatively if you want to go to a smaller city with 1 ER group and they arent hiring.. you could be god's gift and you still wont get a job..

 

[EMRocksmyworld]

You seem to be preoccupied with prestige (or like to use program "strength" as a euphemism for prestige). Are you really formulating your opinions based on the subjective strengths voiced by those on SDN? And Cincy vs. Indy, really? Off the top of my head, there are hundreds of differences between Cincy and Indy - location, 4 vs. 3 years, flight vs. no flight, single vs. multiple hospital systems, focus on critical care and other electives vs. less electives. Cincy is obviously the oldest program in the country, so shear logistics dictate that they have the most alumni. But Indy now has one of the largest residency programs in the country, and their grads do not have problems finding jobs. Do ANY of these make a difference to YOU? Instead of asking which of any number of programs is more prestigious, a habit that is absolutely not productive and is subject to perpetual and endless debate, why don't you determine what you want and see which program fits your interests? I am sure you can articulate your interests more eloquently than "prestige."

I appreciate your honesty, and while I have already formulated my own opinions about places, at this point I am feeling very lost as to what I want in a residency and am seeking guidance of others.

I feel that at this point in the interview process I should have had some epiphany about exactly what I want in a residency (3 years! county! flight! in DC!) but unfortunately that has not happened. I have been unbelievably impressed with nearly all of the places I have seen, and have no idea how to distinguish between them.

I see your point about how "prestige" is not the be-all end-all, so I guess what I'm really seeking is input from others on these programs. I feel that determining the place I would be happiest during a quick 5-hour interview day and 3-hour pre-interview social nearly impossible. I like them all! I feel that I would be happy at any of my top 10! So I apologize if you feel that I am looking at this process the wrong way, but quite honestly I am very puzzled about how to make this very important decision.

I can certainly articulate my interests more eloquently than "prestige": I desire to attend an outstanding residency program where I will be happy and that will prepare me fully to be a great EP. Unfortunately, that doesn't narrow down my options very much- all these programs are freakin' amazing! Furthermore, geography doesn't matter- I have family all over the place and I've never lived in one city very long. I have felt like I would get along well with the residents at most places I interviewed- people in EM are, as a general rule, awesome and easy-going. I don't care at all about 3 vs 4 year. Maybe I should have stronger preferences about these factors, but I honestly do not.

Anyone else feel the same way?

 

[HankReardon]

I appreciate your honesty, and while I have already formulated my own opinions about places, at this point I am feeling very lost as to what I want in a residency and am seeking guidance of others.

I feel that at this point in the interview process I should have had some epiphany about exactly what I want in a residency (3 years! county! flight! in DC!) but unfortunately that has not happened. I have been unbelievably impressed with nearly all of the places I have seen, and have no idea how to distinguish between them.

I see your point about how "prestige" is not the be-all end-all, so I guess what I'm really seeking is input from others on these programs. I feel that determining the place I would be happiest during a quick 5-hour interview day and 3-hour pre-interview social nearly impossible. I like them all! I feel that I would be happy at any of my top 10! So I apologize if you feel that I am looking at this process the wrong way, but quite honestly I am very puzzled about how to make this very important decision.

I can certainly articulate my interests more eloquently than "prestige": I desire to attend an outstanding residency program where I will be happy and that will prepare me fully to be a great EP. Unfortunately, that doesn't narrow down my options very much- all these programs are freakin' amazing! Furthermore, geography doesn't matter- I have family all over the place and I've never lived in one city very long. I have felt like I would get along well with the residents at most places I interviewed- people in EM are, as a general rule, awesome and easy-going. I don't care at all about 3 vs 4 year. Maybe I should have stronger preferences about these factors, but I honestly do not.

Anyone else feel the same way?

Just wanted to take a second and compliment you on a mature response to criticism after that miscommunication.

I didn't interview at too many programs that have the "weight" of Cincinnati or Indiana... but I'm having the same problem in my own little zone of programs. Every time that I get all wound up and paralyzed that I'll make the "wrong" decision - I try and take a breath and remember that I'm choosing between a plethora of good things. Plus, I'm living and breathing, my wife loves me, our baby is healthy, etc.

Honestly, I view it as one of the benefits of Emergency Medicine. Every single program I've been to is going to make me check off those RRC requirements - the quality of physician I become has much more to do with me and my personal effort than the name of my program. We're luckier than many specialties that way, at least for now.

That said... 3 years vs 4 years at equally "prestigious" programs? I'd have to be a pretty serious Bengals fan (ha! that's a joke!). Good luck.

Note that all my quotations indicate sarcasm.

Edit - I just read more carefully to see that you don't have a strong preference between 3 and 4 year programs. <--- YOU SHOULD. $250,000 worth of preference. If you really need a 4th year, do a fellowship and at least make a little cash while adding a legitimate line to your resume.

IMHO.

 

[EMRocksmyworld]

Just wanted to take a second and compliment you on a mature response to criticism after that miscommunication.

I didn't interview at too many programs that have the "weight" of Cincinnati or Indiana... but I'm having the same problem in my own little zone of programs. Every time that I get all wound up and paralyzed that I'll make the "wrong" decision - I try and take a breath and remember that I'm choosing between a plethora of good things. Plus, I'm living and breathing, my wife loves me, our baby is healthy, etc.

Honestly, I view it as one of the benefits of Emergency Medicine. Every single program I've been to is going to make me check off those RRC requirements - the quality of physician I become has much more to do with me and my personal effort than the name of my program. We're luckier than many specialties that way, at least for now.

That said... 3 years vs 4 years at equally "prestigious" programs? I'd have to be a pretty serious Bengals fan (ha! that's a joke!). Good luck.

Note that all my quotations indicate sarcasm.

Edit - I just read more carefully to see that you don't have a strong preference between 3 and 4 year programs. <--- YOU SHOULD. $250,000 worth of preference. If you really need a 4th year, do a fellowship and at least make a little cash while adding a legitimate line to your resume.

IMHO.

Thanks for the response! It makes me feel better to know that someone else is feeling a little overwhelmed by this decision, too. You are absolutely right, though- I appreciate the reminder that this decision isn't a big deal in the grand scheme of things. I am so fortunate to have great options, and I will be happy wherever I end up choosing (or the match ends up putting me, as the case may be). Anyway, thanks for the very helpful response . And also for the input on 3 vs 4. Good luck with the match!

 

[iridesingltrack]

I was very, very impressed with Indy during my interview day. However, I seem to hear more about Cincinnati both from other students interviewing this year and here on SDN. Do you think Cinci is a stronger/more prestigious program, or are they just too dissimilar to compare? Any insight would be appreciated.

If you've interviewed at two institutions and they are in a tie for that top spot, it is a great time to take a trip for a second look. That is the utility of the second look.

Edit - I just read more carefully to see that you don't have a strong preference between 3 and 4 year programs. <--- YOU SHOULD. $250,000 worth of preference. If you really need a 4th year, do a fellowship and at least make a little cash while adding a legitimate line to your resume.

IMHO.

Take advise regarding the benefit of a 4th year with a grain of salt. It all depends on what you want to do with your life and what you do with that time. If you are just planning to moonlight during electives and effectively squander that time then it is a 250K (or more) mistake...but, if you want to do some thing else with that time that better prepares you for a career you want, well, that may be better for you.

 

[dchristismi]

Something else...

I agonized, AGONIZED, over my top 3. Swapped, switched and lost a ton of sleep.

I matched #4 and couldn't have been happier once I got there.
Sometimes the Match just knows.

(Personally, a 4th year would have been a $250K mistake. I thought I knew what I wanted to do. And I would have been wrong.)

 

[EMRocksmyworld]

Irid- thanks, I will definitely consider second looks. That's a great idea

Something else...

I agonized, AGONIZED, over my top 3. Swapped, switched and lost a ton of sleep.

I matched #4 and couldn't have been happier once I got there.
Sometimes the Match just knows.

(Personally, a 4th year would have been a $250K mistake. I thought I knew what I wanted to do. And I would have been wrong.)

This comment- . At this point, I kind of just want the match to pick out of my top 4 or so programs! Definitely losing a lot of sleep a nd still not sure what I want. Great to hear it worked out for you.

 

[crewmaster1]

Take advise regarding the benefit of a 4th year with a grain of salt. It all depends on what you want to do with your life and what you do with that time. If you are just planning to moonlight during electives and effectively squander that time then it is a 250K (or more) mistake...but, if you want to do some thing else with that time that better prepares you for a career you want, well, that may be better for you.

Hey buddy, you taking a shot at me? Just playing.

 

[iridesingltrack]

Hey buddy, you taking a shot at me? Just playing.

You know that is not a shot at you; while you are a moonlighting ***** you actually did a ton with the admin of AirCare.