Insight please! Especially from MSUCOM students...

Burrell College of Osteopathic Medicine
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It's pretty bad. Ultimately looks like a lot of people are (deservedly) going to lose their jobs and face criminal charges. It's a shame dean Strampel was allowed to retire/resign. Should've been fired. But MSU's president, Lou Anna K. Simon, has a bit of a reputation for sweeping things, especially sexual assault-related things, under the rug for better PR so hopefully she's out when it's all said and done.

She has done some good things for the University as a whole, but I don't think she survives this. However, there is still a lot to be heard as to who really knew what at what various stages and what was or was not done about it. It's not a positive any way you spin it, though.
 
It seems the 2014 investigation was grossly mishandled by Dr. Strampel and he's apparently still employed by MSUCOM, which is unacceptable.
 
Goro said:
Some of you may know that I can't recommend people to apply to Penn State SOM because their parent body protected a child molester for > 20 years.

But what do you make of this??? Any other citations out there?

OTL: Michigan State among those that enabled serial sex abuser
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I understand the sentiment towards PSU, but what does the medical school have anything to do with what unfolded in the football program? Even at MSU, the actions of one terrible ex-doctor doesn't represent the thousands of excellent physicians produced by the school. Also, wasn't the indignation towards Penn State elevated by how the institution and some of its community continued defending Paterno? I can guarantee you that nobody is defending Nassar here.
 
Natural Killer Cell said:
I understand the sentiment towards PSU, but what does the medical school have anything to do with what unfolded in the football program? Even at MSU, the actions of one terrible ex-doctor doesn't represent the thousands of excellent physicians produced by the school. Also, wasn't the indignation towards Penn State elevated by how the institution and some of its community continued defending Paterno? I can guarantee you that nobody is defending Nassar here.
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The question with MSU will be how much Nasser was protected. Apparently, the first complaints made against him were in 2012-13.
 
I don’t think the medical school is associated with whatever goes on with the parent body. So even if MSU admins were responsible for the cover up, I don’t think MSUCOM should be blamed. Just like I don’t think Penn State SOM should be blamed for Penn State’s egregious behavior.
 
Lawper said:
I don’t think the medical school is associated with whatever goes on with the parent body. So even if MSU admins were responsible for the cover up, I don’t think MSUCOM should be blamed. Just like I don’t think Penn State SOM should be blamed for Penn State’s egregious behavior.
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I went to PSU and know people who went to Penn State for medical school. It's a different world 2 hours away in Hershey. They don't interact with each other really at all, except when it comes to THON and that mostly goes through the Four Diamonds fund which goes to patients at Hershey.

I was there in the wake of the scandal, the day Paterno was fired. I also agree with you. Penn State SOM shouldn't be blamed for what happened in State College.
 
Goro said:
Some of you may know that I can't recommend people to apply to Penn State SOM because their parent body protected a child molester for > 20 years.

But what do you make of this??? Any other citations out there?
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Odd, based on that logic you shouldn't recommend democrats.

You have no problems with democrats. They protected a bunch of rapist. Bill Clinton the rapist, Harvey Weinstein and all his enablers including Oprah, and Matt Lauer. Don't forget the entire NBC brass was fully aware of this behavior and ignored it.
 
radoncologyhopeful said:
Odd, based on that logic you shouldn't recommend democrats.

You have no problems with democrats. They protected a bunch of rapist. Bill Clinton the rapist, Harvey Weinstein and all his enablers including Oprah, and Matt Lauer. Don't forget the entire NBC brass was fully aware of this behavior and ignored it.
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Orangepants! You came back! You love us!
Give that Banhammer a great big kiss.
 
Lawper said:
I don’t think the medical school is associated with whatever goes on with the parent body. So even if MSU admins were responsible for the cover up, I don’t think MSUCOM should be blamed. Just like I don’t think Penn State SOM should be blamed for Penn State’s egregious behavior.
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In this case, though, the dean of MSUCOM WAS involved to some degree. I don’t think the college as a whole should be blamed, but he is still technically on the faculty, though stepped down from his administrative role for apparent medical reasons.
 
festivespartan said:
In this case, though, the dean of MSUCOM WAS involved to some degree. I don’t think the college as a whole should be blamed, but he is still technically on the faculty, though stepped down from his administrative role for apparent medical reasons.
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I have yet to form an opinion on MSU, hence the reason for creating this thread, but as to the fault being with Penn State's parent and not the med school, well, I'm a parent, and thus, I don't give a rat's ass.
 
Goro said:
I have yet to form an opinion on MSU, hence the reason for creating this thread, but as to the fault being with Penn State's parent and not the med school, well, I'm a parent, and thus, I don't give a rat's ass.
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Then you have made up your mind because these athletes were preteen-teens. I understand condemnation of those involved, but the institution itself? I can’t get behind that.
 
I think it's pretty clear that administration at all levels had some role to play during this entire scandal. Nassar had his own clinic on campus for years where this was going on. Along with working at the nearby gymnastic clubs. The original investigation in 2014 was tampered by the newly resigned MSUCOM dean and that's a big issue. In the ESPN/OTL article, he is quotes wishing Nassar luck and told him he's on his side during the second wave of accusations from Indianapolis.

It's nice to see local newspapers like the Lansing State Journal call for the resignation of the President of MSU but that's far from enough. This isn't the first time a University president tried to wipe Title IX investigations and allegations under the rug. And it's not the first time MSU's Simon did either. She should not just be fired but she should be investigated, along with the ex-dean of MSUCOM, and everyone under both of them.

USA Gymnastics should also clear house and the President should be investigated as well. Ideally we should see an immediate independent Federal investigation into all of this and people in high places need to be held accountable. This is simply outrageous.


I don't think the medical school itself should be to blame... but the administration who actively played a role in any hush hush of this scandal. So that's a tricky line.

In the end, sexual abuse on university and college campuses is absolutely mind boggling. There needs to be serious federal and state reform to help minimize and eventually stamp out this epidemic.
 
DO2015CA said:
Then you have made up your mind because these athletes were preteen-teens. I understand condemnation of those involved, but the institution itself? I can’t get behind that.
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If administration that run the institution are actively playing a role, then technically you should be condemning the institution.
 
EspressoDrip42 said:
If administration that run the institution are actively playing a role, then technically you should be condemning the institution.
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With MSUCOM not cleaning house I can agree but that statement was directed towards Penn State SOM due to what the parent school did
 
EspressoDrip42 said:
I think it's pretty clear that administration at all levels had some role to play during this entire scandal. Nassar had his own clinic on campus for years where this was going on. Along with working at the nearby gymnastic clubs. The original investigation in 2014 was tampered by the newly resigned MSUCOM dean and that's a big issue. In the ESPN/OTL article, he is quotes wishing Nassar luck and told him he's on his side during the second wave of accusations from Indianapolis.

It's nice to see local newspapers like the Lansing State Journal call for the resignation of the President of MSU but that's far from enough. This isn't the first time a University president tried to wipe Title IX investigations and allegations under the rug. And it's not the first time MSU's Simon did either. She should not just be fired but she should be investigated, along with the ex-dean of MSUCOM, and everyone under both of them.

USA Gymnastics should also clear house and the President should be investigated as well. Ideally we should see an immediate independent Federal investigation into all of this and people in high places need to be held accountable. This is simply outrageous.


I don't think the medical school itself should be to blame... but the administration who actively played a role in any hush hush of this scandal. So that's a tricky line.

In the end, sexual abuse on university and college campuses is absolutely mind boggling. There needs to be serious federal and state reform to help minimize and eventually stamp out this epidemic.
Click to expand...

I agree with pretty much all of this. Simon has a pretty bad record with all things sexual-assault related and if she survives this that just unacceptable. It's shameful that this is such a huge problem on University campuses and that sexual assault victims aren't respected and cared for in the ways that they should be.

EspressoDrip42 said:
If administration that run the institution are actively playing a role, then technically you should be condemning the institution.
Click to expand...

I agree to an extent here, too, but I think there needs to be far more investigated, like you said before, before a sweeping condemnation can be made like that. There's still going to be a LOT discussed/discovered/investigated after Nassar's sentencing so this is not even close to being over.
 
festivespartan said:
I agree with pretty much all of this. Simon has a pretty bad record with all things sexual-assault related and if she survives this that just unacceptable. It's shameful that this is such a huge problem on University campuses and that sexual assault victims aren't respected and cared for in the ways that they should be.

I agree to an extent here, too, but I think there needs to be far more investigated, like you said before, before a sweeping condemnation can be made like that. There's still going to be a LOT discussed/discovered/investigated after Nassar's sentencing so this is not even close to being over.
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Not at all. But it just seems so obvious that with a scandal this big and, one that has been going this long... it's not just a few people. A few low, no name people couldn't have let this gotten this bad. People in high places had a role in this and an independent investigation is needed. Heads should be rolling.
 
EspressoDrip42 said:
Not at all. But it just seems so obvious that with a scandal this big and, one that has been going this long... it's not just a few people. A few low, no name people couldn't have let this gotten this bad. People in high places had a role in this and an independent investigation is needed. Heads should be rolling.
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The Detroit News article I posted earlier details this pretty well, but it seems like a huge part of the problem in letting this go on so long was that separate incidents were reported to a variety of people, like team trainers, coaches, COM reps, police, etc, so there was no continuity in who was hearing the complaints and these people didn't communicate with each other.

I think that very much exacerbated the problem because there was no tracking of this pattern of behavior. Everything was viewed as a one-off isolated incident that each victim "didn't understand" the medical practice that was being performed. That is by no means an excuse for allowing this to go on for so long, because at every turn there was an opportunity to send it higher up the proper channels for further action to be taken, but I do think it helps to explain (albeit to a minimal degree) how it got SO bad with seemingly nothing done about it.
 
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I think Larry Nassar has really done major harm to OMM, MSUCOM, and perhaps all D.O. schools. I wouldn't be surprised if there are others who need to be prosecuted. When I was a medical student in 2009, we had a rumor about one of our OMM teachers preferring to test the OMM skills of female D.O. students. I don't think he ever did anything that anyone could reprimand him of, but the female students all knew he had a creepy reputation.
 
The first thing I think of when I read an article like this is "how could someone so immoral find their ways into medical school, when so many altruistic people are turned away".

Ya, definitely looks like people were covering up for him.
 
Robin-jay said:
The first thing I think of when I read an article like this is "how could someone so immoral find their ways into medical school, when so many altruistic people are turned away".

Ya, definitely looks like people were covering up for him.
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I don’t think it does. Maybe a person or two, but right now there’s no evidence (at least that I’ve seen - please share with us if there’s something I’ve missed) to suggest that there was some sort of scheme in place to cover up these assaults. There’s sure to be more that comes to light in the coming months, but as of now, it looks like several absolute failures on the part of many individuals to properly report and investigate the claims rather than an active, malicious process.
 
festivespartan said:
I don’t think it does. Maybe a person or two, but right now there’s no evidence (at least that I’ve seen - please share with us if there’s something I’ve missed) to suggest that there was some sort of scheme in place to cover up these assaults. There’s sure to be more that comes to light in the coming months, but as of now, it looks like several absolute failures on the part of many individuals to properly report and investigate the claims rather than an active, malicious process.
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It's clear that multiple people knew about the accusations years ago. And in recent court proceedings, those same individuals denied hearing about complaints and accusations in the past. There is a lot still be uncovered and it's a shame. The newly ex dean of MSUCOM was emailing Nassar and telling him good luck with the new wave of accusations back in 2016. President Simon was informed about the unnamed faculty member facing sexual assault allegations a few years back and simply said to figure it out and that was that. She knew too.

MSU needs to clean house. This is astounding how horrible mismanaged it has been.


And yes, I do believe that this is a big stain on OMM as a whole. I have already had family members call me to ask about what Nassar was doing and if that is what DO students learn to do. I've read a few separate articles on the manner already, where they specifically talk about how Nassar was using "osteopathic manipulative techniques" with his patients. It definitely stains OMM/OMT and DO schools around the country.
 
Natural Killer Cell said:
I understand the sentiment towards PSU, but what does the medical school have anything to do with what unfolded in the football program? Even at MSU, the actions of one terrible ex-doctor doesn't represent the thousands of excellent physicians produced by the school. Also, wasn't the indignation towards Penn State elevated by how the institution and some of its community continued defending Paterno? I can guarantee you that nobody is defending Nassar here.
Click to expand...

I fully agree with your post --- and the OP is 100% WRONG in telling people not to apply to Penn State SOM just because of the immorals choice of a VERY FEW coaches and administrators involved with the football program.

It would be the same thing as telling someone not to emigrate to America because Trump is President. Sure, there are PLENTY to things to hate about Trump and his evil band of racist and xenophobic cronies, but I would whole-heartedly encourage anyone to come to my beloved country to work hard for their goals and dreams. To do otherwise would be dishonest and anti-American.
 
Durty-Trixxx said:
I fully agree with your post --- and the OP is 100% WRONG in telling people not to apply to Penn State SOM just because of the immorals choice of a VERY FEW coaches and administrators involved with the football program.

It would be the same thing as telling someone not to emigrate to America because Trump is President. Sure, there are PLENTY to things to hate about Trump and his evil band of racist and xenophobic cronies, but I would whole-heartedly encourage anyone to come to my beloved country to work hard for their goals and dreams. To do otherwise would be dishonest and anti-American.
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The schools administration covered this up for years. There are comparisons to Trump and America. America is 300 million people v. 1. Not to mention checks and balances. This is 10-20 members of administration/faculty knowing this was going on v. 300 students. See the difference? You can do math right?
 
Scrubs101 said:
Big fan of Dr. Amalfitano, amazing professor and extremely accomplished researcher/clinician. Residency at Mayo, Fellowship at UofM, prof at Duke, and an amazing research resume to boot.
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Dr. Amalfitano is extremely impressive, he taught us Genetics. He is a world leader in Pompe disease research. He is extremely intelligent and down to earth, took time to talk to any student in person. This is a very good move by MSUCOM.
 
formerF1DO said:
I think Larry Nassar has really done major harm to OMM, MSUCOM, and perhaps all D.O. schools. I wouldn't be surprised if there are others who need to be prosecuted. When I was a medical student in 2009, we had a rumor about one of our OMM teachers preferring to test the OMM skills of female D.O. students. I don't think he ever did anything that anyone could reprimand him of, but the female students all knew he had a creepy reputation.
Click to expand...

EspressoDrip42 said:
And yes, I do believe that this is a big stain on OMM as a whole. I have already had family members call me to ask about what Nassar was doing and if that is what DO students learn to do. I've read a few separate articles on the manner already, where they specifically talk about how Nassar was using "osteopathic manipulative techniques" with his patients. It definitely stains OMM/OMT and DO schools around the country.
Click to expand...

We're finishing up our second quarter of first year and have done some awkward pelvic OMM like ischial tuberosity spread and inferior innominate shear tx, but everyone's fully clothed and I haven't heard of any intravaginal release techniques in our curriculum. Is it taught at most DO schools? If so, are they in later years?
 
Atom612 said:
We're finishing up our second quarter of first year and have done some awkward pelvic OMM like ischial tuberosity spread and inferior innominate shear tx, but everyone's fully clothed and I haven't heard of any intravaginal release techniques in our curriculum. Is it taught at most DO schools? If so, are they in later years?
Click to expand...

Curious about this too. I assumed those techniques would be mentioned in passing at most.
 
formerF1DO said:
I think Larry Nassar has really done major harm to OMM, MSUCOM, and perhaps all D.O. schools.
Click to expand...

The harm may be more the fault of the media. See this LA Times article. Dr. Larry Nassar was not a doctor

"Modern osteopathic medicine uses none of these techniques to treat infections — or anything else. But the specter of violence and child abuse that Still conjured in his early writings continues to haunt the fringes of osteopathic medicine. These practices include intravaginal manipulation. Fisting. This was the "medical procedure" Nassar performed on so many young girls." - LA Times

AOA President Dr. Mark Baker was not pleased. See his response here. Oooooooh SNAP!
 
Goro said:
I'm waiting for evidence...you know, like in court of law that leads to convictions?

That said, there's a lot of stink here
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Obviously, people either knew details or knew he was a sleaze and looked the other way. The Penn State SOM is completely separate from the main body. If you want to not recommend PSU because of the parent body, that's your call. I just figured any involvement or lack of action at all would be enough to put this school on your **** list.
 
__AVI8R__ said:
The harm may be more the fault of the media. See this LA Times article. Dr. Larry Nassar was not a doctor

"Modern osteopathic medicine uses none of these techniques to treat infections — or anything else. But the specter of violence and child abuse that Still conjured in his early writings continues to haunt the fringes of osteopathic medicine. These practices include intravaginal manipulation. Fisting. This was the "medical procedure" Nassar performed on so many young girls." - LA Times

AOA President Dr. Mark Baker was not pleased. See his response here. Oooooooh SNAP!
Click to expand...
More surprising is how few DOs have actually come out to defend OMT and the Osteopathic profession. Politics in medicine is going to get really interesting - especially after the merger...
 
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