Insincerity, selflessness, and apps

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MiesVanDerMom said:
This is like listening to a bunch of historians sit around discussing biochemistry.

Well yes, but you realize that makes you no more qualified than us.

I just don't really understand the whole idea. The Industrial Revolution is what made the US a power (instead of the country that got the beatdown from Canada), and it happened in the North sans slaves. Lots and lots and lots of other countries had successful large scale slave farming and never became a world power, while other countries had no slave farming at all and became world powers. One can argue cotton, yadda yadda, which is to some extent true but while slave labor was certainly "a" factor in the US becoming a world power, it is absurd to state that it is "the" primary factor.
 
All I am saying is that I would credit Vanderbilt for making America great by creating the railroads not the chinese and irish who physically built it. Again, it is the visionaries that deserve the credit. The labor could have been replaced by anyone.
 
Surgeon Guy. I'm disappointed in your posts. how can you say that female doctors don't work as hard just because of you father's limited experiences? commen sense dictates that correlation doesn't equate causalty. One would think a person of your intellect would be able to distinguish between this. although I got flamed for my reasons for going into medicine, I find you have taken it too far. chill out.
 
Will Hunting said:
Surgeon Guy. I'm disappointed in your posts. how can you say that female doctors don't work as hard just because of you father's limited experiences? commen sense dictates that correlation doesn't equate causalty. One would think a person of your intellect would be able to distinguish between this. although I got flamed for my reasons for going into medicine, I find you have taken it too far. chill out.
heheh, its funny though. diversity at its finest. i always say that theres more to diversity than skin color.
 
Compassion =/= hand-holding. Your doc can be compassionate without being your doormat or your surrogate coddling mother.

Volunteering =/= hospital, necessarily. (Btw, volunteering just means not being financially compensated for your time and effort, correct? You can definitely have other reasons for doing whatever volunteer work you want, be it tutoring or helping out at animal shelters or helping set up a major event on campus, but monetary reward can't be one of them. So volunteering never equated to selflessness anyhow.) Sometimes, I wonder if the med schools put more emphasis on volunteering (any sort) to get the people who are willing to do it, even if they don't have to. After all, it's part of a practicing physician's life to sacrifice what the physician wants, even temporarily. Even if the final goal is not to practice, there will still be a few years of seeing patients to slog through. If you can give up some of your time before med school, that at least sets precendence for being able to do it again later in life. But, as with many things, that was just guesswork. Personally, with the exception of one non-medical, non-science experience, I regret very much the time I spent volunteering (less that 75 hours) and getting "clinical experience" (probably less than 20 hours). I should have gotten out of science and the pre-med game a lot sooner.

To Shredder: If a school really wants people who have volunteered a lot and put a lot of value on community service, who says you have to go there? After all, they tell you not to go to a school whose value system conflicts with your own and not all med schools are the same.

With the money issue, that was more for Shredder's benefit and an attempt at explaining why some people were so incensed. I mean, if a complete stranger comes away from what he posted with, "Wow, he really cares about making money" . . . I think it's not good. Remember, some interviews are blind.

I really don't care to weigh in very much on what attributes the medical schools should consider and in what proportions. I'm ultimately not going into medicine (or any medically-related field or science). All I know is that taking people based solely on grades is . . . I would not want the students around me to be my physician.

On the dictionary thing, I dislike it for these types of arguments because it shuts down communication instead of getting people to probe into abstract terms and start defining them for themselves. For the most part, the basic feel of the word will be similar from person to person, but it's the nuances that dictate the difference in how people act upon the abstracts.

But coming back around to it, the initial question was whether or not an applicant can so blatantly and so bluntly dismiss altruism as one of the reasons for becoming a doctor and still be accepted. I would say no. Words will have to be couched and the interview manipulated around the subject, if possible. But, instead of focusing on the negatives (I don't believe in altruism), why not just play up the positives (I have a concrete ideal for medicine and want to become a doc to attain it)? Then the interview becomes a debate on the pros and cons of your plan. You have a higher probability of avoiding the altruism pothole and less chance of accidentally offending your interviewer. As for secondary app questions regarding compassion, altruism, etc., they don't have to be examples related to medicine, do they? Never given a lift to somebody who needed to be somewhere that was out of your way? Never lent notes to a classmate? Never helped a friend with a project for a class you're not even taking? Never gave directions to someone who was lost on campus? After all, the medical community doesn't want misanthropes or the extremely anti-social.
 
dopaminophile said:
I really don't buy that doctors (or premeds or med students, interns, or residents) don't have time or resources to give some reasonable amount of time to that kind of service. The associated costs are extremely low and the time is as small or large as you want to make it. Sure, MSF and similar organizations have huge requirements, but you certainly don't have to go through them. I managed to spend several months out of the past year doing that sort of work on multiple trips and I have no training, no money, and certainly didn't have time while applying to medical school. Shoot... the industry as a whole is something like 1/8 of our GNP and doctors still have astronomical incomes. If I can do it, certainly others can. And what they'll find is that they'll enjoy it! (Then, I suppose it's not altruistic in the strictest definition, eh?)

I really do mostly agree with you, and I suppose I'm partially arguing for the sake of argument. Except this one point above is a bit too idealistic. In college I certainly had time to volunteer, and I did. At this point I don't. I work more than 50 hours a week, sometimes on Sundays. Saturday is my sabbath and I can't do anything then. I can't work less, because not only does my job require this effort, my husband and I need the money. There is simply no time available for me to volunteer. I suspect there may be more time as a student, but by that time we hope to have a child, and my husband will be in his third and fourth years, so I don't think I'll have a bunch of time then, either. And many residents already work about 80 hours a week, and they have families, too. Some day, when we are all established doctors doing whatever it is we do, we will have the opportunity to do pro bono work, or to spend a week or two volunteering somewhere. But before that point, when we're struggling just to make ends meet and get through our schooling, not everybody has the luxury of time to donate.

Good luck today in school! Enjoy! 🙂
 
sKorpia said:
Compassion =/= hand-holding.
skorpia, you ditched med? whys that? what did you take up in its place. so you didnt like the volunteering, understandable.

but every US school wants altruism, and if i discovered ones that did not i would consider them. foreign schools arent like this i think, but i cant make that sacrifice in status just based on the altruism principle. i dont know why the premed and adcom game has become so artificial. there needs to be competition to get the adcoms off their domineering butts. every sensible person should care about making money, and hopefully lots of it. you get money by providing goods and services. provide more and you get more. its simple logic, as long as you stay within the rules (no shadiness, and free distribution of information that is required to have good markets).

the dictionary thing--geez, im an engineer, i dont deal with things like that. haha when things say define i reach for the dictionary as i would reach for an equation. altruism in the end is fine and dandy but i think it has no bearing on what kind of doctor a person will become. slash docs income in half, and then you will see how altruistic they and premeds are. the only reason that the final goal is not to practice is that at some point, the opportunity cost of seeing patients one by one is far too high, a la bill gates debugging program code. makes sense? but yes i will have to go through the patient bit, just not as an end goal.
 
Shredder- I too struggled with the altruism essay you're talking about, but in the end, I decided that rejection was not worth compromising my beliefs and I stated clearly that I did not believe in altruism. Good Luck to you at said school!
 
amand0r said:
Shredder- I too struggled with the altruism essay you're talking about, but in the end, I decided that rejection was not worth compromising my beliefs and I stated clearly that I did not believe in altruism. Good Luck to you at said school!
wow, thats unbelievable! let me know how that goes. im trying to do my best on questions like that without being a sellout. but it takes some real guts to be frank with them like you were. judging by your mdapps theres no way they can turn you down unless they are really nuts.
 
BrettBatchelor said:
It totally depends on what you define as creating America. I would say it was mostly the gusto of the Declaration of Independence. Sure the farming economy was ran by the blacks, I won't deny that but the greatest advancements to make modern america would be square on the shoulders of a select few. 0.01% of which are anything but white. I am not trying to turn the debate and anyone can PM me if they want to but you are glorifiying the foot soldiers of change not the brilliance behind it. Its like blaming the war on the nazi soldiers not Hitler.

dude, I agree that the intellect of our forefathers was a critical factor in the nation's rise however i'm not trying to glorify "the foot soldiers of change", i was just saying that we don't really ever appreciate how much a boon to our nation's economic well being slavery was. it was free labor, and since a slave's children were also slaves, it was a boundless resource...
 
monu1234 said:
dude, I agree that the intellect of our forefathers was a critical factor in the nation's rise however i'm not trying to glorify "the foot soldiers of change", i was just saying that we don't really ever appreciate how much a boon to our nation's economic well being slavery was. it was free labor, and since a slave's children were also slaves, it was a boundless resource...
it wasnt entirely free, the slaveowners still had to provide for the slaves' needs
 
I agree with Shredder. I don't think those who choose not to claim to be altruistic should be shut out by adcoms. To be honest, I not sure if a person can ever truly be 100% altruistic. Never would I make such a claim as to be selfless cuz, gotta admitt it, I'm sure at least 75% of things that I've done for someone else benefited me in one way or another. If adcoms didn't place such emphasis on volunteering I'm sure I wouldn't do it. (I just think that (if i had any to give) monetary donations could do a lot more than me being there physically.) So what, b/cuz i'm not selfless does that mean i won't be a great doctor? No, I'm very compassionate and u can be compassionate and not be altruistic. Sure I want to help people and save lives and be the best doctor I can be for my patients but i just hate when people claim to be Holier than thou b/c they want to go save the lives or orphans in the Amazon jungle. If they were truly altruistic, why not go in the peace corp or do social work or work for a non-profit organization or whatever. There are plenty of other things u could do to just "help people".
 
I've heard of this question being asked....anyone who wants to truly "help people" and have lots of direct patient contact need not be a physician. THey can easily become a nurse or EMT or other non-doctor health professional.
 
BaylorGuy said:
I've heard of this question being asked....anyone who wants to truly "help people" and have lots of direct patient contact need not be a physician. THey can easily become a nurse or EMT or other non-doctor health professional.
😱 i agree, but now im wondering what in the world is it that adcoms want to hear. you lose if you want to help ppl, and you lose if you dont. maybe the whole process is to see who does the best job of bending over backwards and standing on their heads while maintaining sanity without breaking.
 
SDN is filled with so many *****s and, many of them are on this thread! I get quite angry when people act like the slaves in America were lucky to be here… America is what it is today because of inventors, entrepreneurs, slaves and, immigrants(straight from a Google search I did even though I felt it would be obvious to anyone with half a brain ). I am so sick of all the fake E-gangsters on SDN who in real life are big pu$$ies but on sdn, are allowed to spew hate and get away with it. Many of you follow these *****s and agree with their ******ed beliefs about medicine and society. Very disgraceful indeed!

In relation to altruism and all the worthless **** being discussed on here. I really don’t give a **** if the guy sitting next to me in med school is altruistic or not… What I do care about is that MY doctor is companionate (not necessarily altruistic). That is, IMHO any doctor that graduates from a med school and completes a residency and, passes all the tests can do the job well. Thus, why would I pick a shredder type doc when I have options?? When I had an injury about a year ago the doc I had was awesome but, if he was a cold motherfuc*ker I would have def found someone else.
 
visualwealth said:
SDN is filled with so many *****s and, many of them are on this thread! I get quite angry when people act like the slaves in America were lucky to be here… America is what it is today because of inventors, entrepreneurs, slaves and, immigrants(straight from a Google search I did even though I felt it would be obvious to anyone with half a brain ). I am so sick of all the fake E-gangsters on SDN who in real life are big pu$$ies but on sdn, are allowed to spew hate and get away with it. Many of you follow these *****s and agree with their ******ed beliefs about medicine and society. Very disgraceful indeed!

In relation to altruism and all the worthless **** being discussed on here. I really don’t give a **** if the guy sitting next to me in med school is altruistic or not… What I do care about is that MY doctor is companionate (not necessarily altruistic). That is, IMHO any doctor that graduates from a med school and completes a residency and, passes all the tests can do the job well. Thus, why would I pick a shredder type doc when I have options?? When I had an injury about a year ago the doc I had was awesome but, if he was a cold motherfuc*ker I would have def found someone else.
How can you say that some didn't do more than others when it comes to making america what it is today?

BTW using words like "motherfu*ker" and "pu$$ies" makes you look more like the E-gangster.
 
BrettBatchelor said:
How can you say that some didn't do more than others when it comes to making america what it is today?

BTW using words like "motherfu*ker" and "pu$$ies" makes you look more like the E-gangster.

1)how can you weight who made a bigger contribution??? IMO remove any of those aforementioned groups and, America is a piece of crap country.

2)haha ok
 
visualwealth said:
1)how can you weight who made a bigger contribution??? IMO remove any of those aforementioned groups and, America is a piece of crap country.

2)haha ok
It doesn't have to do with racial groups, it has to do with individuals who had ideas and visions.
 
BrettBatchelor said:
It doesn't have to do with racial groups, it has to do with individuals who had ideas and visions.

To equate Americas success solely to individuals is ummmm stupid. Inventors, entrepreneurs, slaves and, immigrants that is what has made America what it is now… remove someone like Vanderbilt from American history and I would venture to say that America would not be different from what it is today… But, if you consider all the entrepreneurs as a whole then, you see that i they were very significant in shaping America.
 
visualwealth said:
To equate Americas success solely to individuals is ummmm stupid. Inventors, entrepreneurs, slaves and, immigrants that is what has made America what it is now… remove someone like Vanderbilt from American history and I would venture to say that America would not be different from what it is today… But, if you consider all the entrepreneurs as a whole then, you see that i they were very significant in shaping America.
Then why are some individuals more famous than others?

I will without a doubt say George Washington Carver was more important to American than a random slave picking cottom. .00001% decrease in cotton production doesn't outweigh the advancements (namely PB) he made. Who is to say that someone else would have come up with the idea? If no one else had the same thoughts then if you remove even one important person from history the structure of America would change more than if you removed the one slave who didn't pick 1 acre of cotton.
 
BrettBatchelor said:
Then why are some individuals more famous than others?

I will without a doubt say George Washington Carver was more important to American than a random slave picking cottom. .00001% decrease in cotton production doesn't outweigh the advancements (namely PB) he made. Who is to say that someone else would have come up with the idea? If no one else had the same thoughts then if you remove even one important person from history the structure of America would change more than if you removed the one slave who didn't pick 1 acre of cotton.


Ummm I agree! I don't see what we are debating?? All I am saying is that those 4 groups when considered as a whole shaped America.

PS. Obviously, not every individual inventor/immigrant/entrepreneur/slave was very significant but, when considered as a whole they were very important...
 
Hmmmm......visualhealth's post quoted by megboo on the previous page, brought up some good points.

There are always going to be doctors with different personalities, but we are free to choose who we want based on our health plans, so I don't see the big issue.
 
I would put inventors, entreprenuers and various other groups >>>slaves in importance to America as a country.
Here is why:
America has grown to the super power and the country that it is today because of the primarily industrial economy followed by the post modern economy.

Slavery ended at the beginning of the primarily industrial economy, hence they really have no bearing on what America is today. Slaves were only around for ~100 of ~225 years of American history while the others I listed have been here through all 225.
 
"The truth shall set you free." But it may not get you that coveted seat in med. school.
 
BrettBatchelor said:
I would put inventors, entreprenuers and various other groups >>>slaves in importance to America as a country.
Here is why:
America has grown to the super power and the country that it is today because of the primarily industrial economy followed by the post modern economy.

Slavery ended at the beginning of the primarily industrial economy, hence they really have no bearing on what America is today. Slaves were only around for ~100 of ~225 years of American history while the others I listed have been here through all 225.

The American economy is going downhill. The hotshots have decided to borrow, borrow, and the value of our dollar is rapidly declining.
 
CTSballer11 said:
The American economy is going downhill. The hotshots have decided to borrow, borrow, and the value of our dollar is rapidly declining.
No worries. That's just the peaks and valleys of the economy curve.
 
CTSballer11 said:
The American economy is going downhill. The hotshots have decided to borrow, borrow, and the value of our dollar is rapidly declining.
i agree, usa is losing power relative to the rest of the world today, namely china and india. was it inevitable? we keep getting mad at china for currency issues, not sure what the details are. foreign investors are buying up tons of US property and companies.
 
BrettBatchelor said:
No worries. That's just the peaks and valleys of the economy curve.
is it though? or is the US progressively losing its edge? im not sure but sometimes i get concerned. i dont know if america has that hunger anymore, feels like complacency might be taking its toll. thats why we can get away with these med school capers and nobody says anything.
 
Shredder said:
is it though? or is the US progressively losing its edge? im not sure but sometimes i get concerned. i dont know if america has that hunger anymore, feels like complacency might be taking its toll. thats why we can get away with these med school capers and nobody says anything.
Thats why I will invest in those foreign markets. Win for me.
 
Shredder. I 100% agree with your original post. Nobody ever summed it up better.
 
I have another idea....I've been told this by a number of residents and some faculty members and I've heard their take on what adcoms think. They told me that they are looking for applicants who they would like to work with and consider colleagues.

Now think about this for a second...i think this may answer a lot of questions. I doubt that faculty and people on adcoms want to work with the overtly compassionate, altruistic pre-med who did years and years of volunteering. On the other hand, i doubt they would want to work with the pre-med who really doesn't care about the welfare of others.

This makes a lot of sense to me...adcoms (which are mainly composed of MDs) want to get the best students who will advance their profession. They dont want dinguses nor do they want their dinguses kissed (well, some might). They want people to work with, who can bring good qualities to their profession and make excellent doctors....not necessarily overtly compassionate doctors, nor dingus doctors.

Thoughts??
 
BaylorGuy said:
adcoms want....not necessarily overtly compassionate doctors....

Thoughts??

it can't really hurt, unless you're like that overly sensitive guy in Bedazzled. as for dinguses, nobody likes an dingus...
 
Megboo said:
WHY ARE WE YELLING?!?!?!?!?!

VERY LOUD VOICES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I love........ lamp. I love lamp.


Yeah you're gonna need to lay low for a while.
 
BaylorGuy said:
Thoughts??

From someone who has actually completed med school, this is probably the most insightful and truthful post on this entire thread. There is no magic filter, though, and some bleeding hearts (not in the liberal sense) as well as some dinguses always make it in. Fortunately, there are places in medicine for every personality type: the dinguses head to the OR and the bleeders run palliative wards or do peds-onc.

Given the choice, though, I'll take a bleeder over an dingus any day. The difference is that bleeders can be hardened by the day-to-day reality of medicine and become caring, competent physicians. dinguses tend to just stay dinguses.
 
BrettBatchelor said:
Thats why I will invest in those foreign markets. Win for me.

I may be wrong but then why are republicans giving tax breaks to big buisnesses? I thought the point behind this was that people would invest in these companies, and in effect strengthen the US economy. If these same companies outsource jobs and hurt the US economy, then as you said no one will invest in the US market. This is more than a cycle.
 
Suppuration said:
From someone who has actually completed med school, this is probably the most insightful and truthful post on this entire thread. There is no magic filter, though, and some bleeding hearts (not in the liberal sense) as well as some dinguses always make it in. Fortunately, there are places in medicine for every personality type: the dinguses head to the OR and the bleeders run palliative wards or do peds-onc.

Given the choice, though, I'll take a bleeder over an dingus any day. The difference is that bleeders can be hardened by the day-to-day reality of medicine and become caring, competent physicians. dinguses tend to just stay dinguses.

Really, are all surgeons that bad? LOL.
 
CTSballer11 said:
Really, are all surgeons that bad? LOL.

They're a mixed bag. Half of them are like benevolent grandparents. The other half say things like "No more toilet paper in this guy's house!" while doing an AP pull-through for colon CA.
 
CTSballer11 said:
I may be wrong but then why are republicans giving tax breaks to big buisnesses? I thought the point behind this was that people would invest in these companies, and in effect strengthen the US economy. If these same companies outsource jobs and hurt the US economy, then as you said no one will invest in the US market. This is more than a cycle.
I was under the impression that these latest tax breaks were to create jobs not to create investing opportunity. Nonetheless, emerging markets where be where big money is in the near future.
 
wends said:
if its for money, honey there are plenty of other jobs that will earn you so much more!.
Name 3 jobs. I don't want none of that ''major league baseball player, greatest singer of all time and CEO of a multinational'' BS. How about something millions of people can do ? A job that doesn't require exceptional abilities ? A job that has a median salary close to salaries in medicine ? Let's get real here for a second.

Yea, you can say I entered medicine for money now 🙄
 
Blake said:
Name 3 jobs. I don't want none of that ''major league baseball player, greatest singer of all time and CEO of a multinational'' BS. How about something millions of people can do ? A job that doesn't require exceptional abilities ? A job that has a median salary close to salaries in medicine ? Let's get real here for a second.

Yea, you can say I entered medicine for money now 🙄

investment banker, lawyer (there are several jobs under this category, including: M&A, litigator, tax law, the list goes), financial trader, real-estate broker, engineer, consultant. Is that enough?
 
Tigerstang said:
investment banker, lawyer (there are several jobs under this category, including: M&A, litigator, tax law, the list goes), financial trader, real-estate broker, engineer, consultant. Is that enough?
The average lawyer doesn't make as much as the average doc, and I'm sure you know that. Of course, you can hear of a lawyer who's making 10 millions a year, but I can also give you rare examples of physicians making 7 figures a year. I'd bet the same goes for the average engineer, consultant. The investment bankers and the other folks working in finance might make more than docs (and even then, those are the exceptions rather than the rule), but they have a ridiculously low level of job security. Sorry I'm not convinced, but good try nevertheless.

I understand why money is such a taboo subject in medicine, but let's not kid ourselves, the money is good. I'm sure this plays a huge factor in its ''competitiveness''. Maybe I've become jaded thanks to my classmates, but I'm convinced most people are in it for the bucks. Furthermore, the job also has plenty of good sides (excellent job security, good social status, feeling of usefulness everyday, saving people, etc), so it's basically a win-win situation. Basically all the top students in my college ended up in med school. It's not even a matter of choice. Got what it takes ? Then you go to med school. Don't have what it takes ? Try anything else except med school. That's how it works here.

Anyway, not everyone is in it primarily for the money. Maybe that explains why I only hang out with non-traditional students in my class... Hope you guys won't get too disappointed with your classmates and their hipocrisy.
 
Tigerstang said:
investment banker, lawyer (there are several jobs under this category, including: M&A, litigator, tax law, the list goes), financial trader, real-estate broker, engineer, consultant. Is that enough?

Are you kidding me? The average salary of a physician is higher than any of the things you have listed above. Engineers make jackshi*t. Sure, some lawyers may make a lot of money, but the average salary is not higher than a doctor. In order to make money in law you have to graduate at a top law school. The same cannot be said about medicine.
 
Tigerstang said:
investment banker, lawyer (there are several jobs under this category, including: M&A, litigator, tax law, the list goes), financial trader, real-estate broker, engineer, consultant. Is that enough?
The average doc will make more than the average for all of those everyday of the week.
 
CTSballer11 said:
Are you kidding me? The average salary of a physician is higher than any of the things you have listed above. Engineers make jackshi*t. Sure, some lawyers may make a lot of money, but the average salary is not higher than a doctor. In order to make money in law you have to graduate at a top law school. The same cannot be said about medicine.



Hahahahahaha... oh MAN! "Engineers make jacksh*t." Ok, I'll take that in the context it was given. But hands down, out of undergrad, I can tell you that engineers make more with their degree than anyone else hired for what they majored in. Starting salary for a chemical engineer seems to fluctuate every year, but it's always above $50,000, from the source I have ("Chemical and Engineering News", a monthly magazine). Furthermore, after graduate school and Ph.D. work, if you don't have the research credentials to patent something and start your own company (which could lead to 6 or 7 figures), you are almost guaranteed over 75K. This doesn't compare to MD salaries, but don't insult me and all other engineers by proclaiming that engineers make jacksh*t.
 
Enginerd42 said:
Hahahahahaha... oh MAN! "Engineers make jacksh*t." Ok, I'll take that in the context it was given. But hands down, out of undergrad, I can tell you that engineers make more with their degree than anyone else hired for what they majored in. Starting salary for a chemical engineer seems to fluctuate every year, but it's always above $50,000, from the source I have ("Chemical and Engineering News", a monthly magazine). Furthermore, after graduate school and Ph.D. work, if you don't have the research credentials to patent something and start your own company (which could lead to 6 or 7 figures), you are almost guaranteed over 75K. This doesn't compare to MD salaries, but don't insult me and all other engineers by proclaiming that engineers make jacksh*t.
its the student doctor network, you have to take everything in its context otherwise it might as well be the peoples network. also its the preallo subforum

but if you want guaranteed money and job security, there is absolutely no better deal than medicine. banking, law, engineering--bunch of hogwash, its no coincidence theyre not nearly as competitive as medicine except at their topmost levels. and those topmost levels are where their incomes begin to correspond with those in medicine.
 
CTSballer11 said:
Are you kidding me? The average salary of a physician is higher than any of the things you have listed above. Engineers make jackshi*t. Sure, some lawyers may make a lot of money, but the average salary is not higher than a doctor. In order to make money in law you have to graduate at a top law school. The same cannot be said about medicine.


Hahaha. If you and Brett Bachelor truly believe that, then you guys are very blind to the reality of the world. Open up your eyes, young ones, and see the world around you. I know you've devoted your lives to becoming doctors, but these other fields are a lot more lucrative than you might first believe.
 
Tigerstang said:
Hahaha. If you and Brett Bachelor truly believe that, then you guys are very blind to the reality of the world. Open up your eyes, young ones, and see the world around you. I know you've devoted your lives to becoming doctors, but these other fields are a lot more lucrative than you might first believe.
theres no other field where you can attend the lowest school in the country and graduate last in your class, and still make 6 figures, maybe even 150k. the other fields can potentially be more lucrative, but the averages are indisputable.
 
Enginerd42 said:
Hahahahahaha... oh MAN! "Engineers make jacksh*t." Ok, I'll take that in the context it was given. But hands down, out of undergrad, I can tell you that engineers make more with their degree than anyone else hired for what they majored in. Starting salary for a chemical engineer seems to fluctuate every year, but it's always above $50,000, from the source I have ("Chemical and Engineering News", a monthly magazine). Furthermore, after graduate school and Ph.D. work, if you don't have the research credentials to patent something and start your own company (which could lead to 6 or 7 figures), you are almost guaranteed over 75K. This doesn't compare to MD salaries, but don't insult me and all other engineers by proclaiming that engineers make jacksh*t.


You gotta understand, most of these people have wanted to be doctors their whole lives. They have no idea or understanding outside of the world of medicine. Anyone who knows about banking, engineering, consulting, or law knows those fields offer salaries as large, if not larger, than you're average physician (I know because my father is an engineer, my brother a trader, myself a consultant, and several close friends are lawyers).
 
Shredder said:
theres no other field where you can attend the lowest school in the country and graduate last in your class, and still make 6 figures, maybe even 150k. the other fields can potentially be more lucrative, but the averages are indisputable.

Yes there is, it's called law school, business school, or even undergraduate.
 
Shredder said:
theres no other field where you can attend the lowest school in the country and graduate last in your class, and still make 6 figures, maybe even 150k. the other fields can potentially be more lucrative, but the averages are indisputable.
Exactly. Like I said the average doc will make more than any other profession. Although the top 5% of businessmen would earn large amounts more than the top 5% of doctors. I'll rely on myself being average rather than the top 5%.
 
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