Institutional Action - How bad is mine?

[yasoo4thalq]

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I am numb. Just came back from meeting with the Dean. I was put on probation for embellishing my lab hours.

Basically, I need to complete 100 hours of research for my major. I work with a professor in my department, and we have a sign-in/sign-out sheet in a binder. I put that I worked 5 hours last Thursday, but I was actually there for ~2-3 hours. When the PhD student in the lab was putting the hours into the computer, he noticed that since lab was closed early that day for cleaning it was impossible I was there for that long. He reported me to the professor. I admitted my actions to the professor, begged for leniency but he still reported me to the Dean.

The official charge reads something like this:

"Mischaracterization, or attempted mischaracterization, or forgery, or attempted forgery, or falsification of items, credentials or documents belonging to the University or individuals affiliated with the University"

I have a 3.9+ gpa--lowest grade ever was a B+. I'm taking the MCAT in January. Decent ECs, etc etc...

How severe is this? Should I even apply?

 

[Moose A Moose]

I honestly don’t know. You need to hear from some of the admin folks on here. Maybe @Goro can offer some guidance.

Naturally, you shouldn’t have doctored your hours and blah, blah, blah ... ... but that’s still a pretty lousy move from the PhD student.

 

[Lawpy]

I don't think this looks good, but perhaps @LizzyM @Goro @gyngyn @Med Ed @gonnif can clarify

 

[mock94]

Darn. Sorry to hear. You did something a lot of premeds probably do, add a few hours to their volunteering, etc etc. But you got caught.

Not sure about your chances--adcoms on here have better opinions. But cast a wide, wide net when you apply. And own your actions. And don't do it again.

 

[meeninit1]

First thing is first: breathe. Take care of your psyche. You may have been aiming to be a doctor for a long time, since freshman year, and you may perceive this to be the end of the world. But remember, your own mental health is more important than the sanctimonious opinions of others. Your Dean, professor and PhD mentor may have made you feel like crap--what you did was wrong, and they have a point--but don't internalize their words. Grow from them. The mistake you made wasn't murder, you didn't hurt anyone, you lied. Sure it's a mistake, but it's not the end of the world. It's a learning point for you as an individual, regardless of your chances for medical school.

Second: Study hard for the MCAT, still take in January. Go harder than you planned. Worst thing is for you to get depressed, get a bad MCAT score and then it ends up that you can't apply anyways because of a poor MCAT score.

Third: plan B. Think of one from now, you have a lot of time to think of one. But still apply.

Fourth: try to get a solid EC--like working with troubled youth, etc.

I have a terrible IA on the same level of yours (falsified credentials), but I also have an MCAT above a 520. I took the MCAT after the IA, and I know I probably will not get accepted. But this is life. I will not give up.

I know you may be feeling terrible, so PM me anytime and we can talk it through.

 

[Jared.mock]

Chances are this wasn't your first time doing this. This puts into question every self-reported thing you ever did in your whole life.

Echoing what other people said above--wait for @Goro @LizzyM @gonnif @mimelim and other adcoms on here to reply. Everyone that replied so far is only speculation. You want them in particular to respond.

 

[SoppyElk]

I'm sure other pre-meds have done it too, but it doesn't make it right. Why risk something if there's a chance of getting caught? It's only a couple hours, and embellishing two hours is not worth getting an IA.

 

[LizzyM]

Prepare for the MCAT but understand that you may not be admitted to medical school, your score may expire and you may need to put many years between this event and your ultimate matriculation into medical school.

Falsifying something like this ... next thing you know, you are falsifying the number of procedures you've performed for board certification, etc. Yeah, no one died but the higher you move up the ladder, the more likely that falsifying and getting by doing less than required will come back to bite you and someone (and not you) will die of your dishonesty.

This was a small thing and what you need to do now is a serious self-appraisal of your short-comings, own them, show remorse, and firmly resolve not to do that sort of thing ever again. Plan at least a year of service between college graduation and med school... You'll need to show that you have amended your life and have integrity 100% of the time.

 

[Goro]

I am numb. Just came back from meeting with the Dean. I was put on probation for embellishing my lab hours.

Basically, I need to complete 100 hours of research for my major. I work with a professor in my department, and we have a sign-in/sign-out sheet in a binder. I put that I worked 5 hours last Thursday, but I was actually there for ~2-3 hours. When the PhD student in the lab was putting the hours into the computer, he noticed that since lab was closed early that day for cleaning it was impossible I was there for that long. He reported me to the professor. I admitted my actions to the professor, begged for leniency but he still reported me to the Dean.

The official charge reads something like this:

"Mischaracterization, or attempted mischaracterization, or forgery, or attempted forgery, or falsification of items, credentials or documents belonging to the University or individuals affiliated with the University"

I have a 3.9+ gpa--lowest grade ever was a B+. I'm taking the MCAT in January. Decent ECs, etc etc...

How severe is this? Should I even apply?

For a lousy two hours to pad your hour count you jeopardized your entire career???

This doesn't look good. Your judgment and ethics are highly suspect.

If I was your thesis advisor, it would also make me question the quality of your research.

EDIT: I agree 100% with my learned colleague LizzyM. You need exemplary behavior from now on, and preferably engage in positions of responsibility. Your medical career might not be over, but it very well may be in deep stasis.

 

[878956]

I am numb. Just came back from meeting with the Dean. I was put on probation for embellishing my lab hours.

Basically, I need to complete 100 hours of research for my major. I work with a professor in my department, and we have a sign-in/sign-out sheet in a binder. I put that I worked 5 hours last Thursday, but I was actually there for ~2-3 hours. When the PhD student in the lab was putting the hours into the computer, he noticed that since lab was closed early that day for cleaning it was impossible I was there for that long. He reported me to the professor. I admitted my actions to the professor, begged for leniency but he still reported me to the Dean.

The official charge reads something like this:

"Mischaracterization, or attempted mischaracterization, or forgery, or attempted forgery, or falsification of items, credentials or documents belonging to the University or individuals affiliated with the University"

I have a 3.9+ gpa--lowest grade ever was a B+. I'm taking the MCAT in January. Decent ECs, etc etc...

How severe is this? Should I even apply?

Where is this posted? On your transcript?

 

[LizzyM]

Where is this posted? On your transcript?

Why would it matter where it is posted? All institutional actions, and probation is an institutional action, MUST be reported on the AMCAS. Failure to do so would be another instance of not being truthful and that would be the kiss of death. Read the classic sociological study of surgical training, Forgive and Remember by Charles L. Bosk with a special focus on Normative Errors.

 

[getdown]

Reminds me of that one clown's post a while back asking if he should add 2 hours for his commute to volunteer since "everyone else is doing it". Well I guess OP was just adding commute time.

 

[Biochemistry69]

Reminds me of that one clown's post a while back asking if he should add 2 hours for his commute to volunteer since "everyone else is doing it". Well I guess OP was just adding commute time.

That "clown" was me, and you're misrepresenting the entire post. I didn't ask because everyone else was doing it, I asked because a lot of people told me that's what you're supposed to do. A lot of these same people are now accepted med students.

Check yourself, mate.

 

[infectiousdisease101]

You should have thought that more thoroughly. You thought of the benefits, but not the risk and that may have cost you your entire career. Ask yourself, was working 2 hours less of volunteering in a lab worth risking your entire future? I know a guy who was harassing people on social media then blocking them and unblocking them and doing it again and again because he was annoying and people told him to leave him alone when they did not. Finally, someone was smart and resourceful enough to report him to Student Conduct and now his dream of getting into medical school is beyond his reach.

 

[yasoo4thalq]

Prepare for the MCAT but understand that you may not be admitted to medical school, your score may expire and you may need to put many years between this event and your ultimate matriculation into medical school.

Falsifying something like this ... next thing you know, you are falsifying the number of procedures you've performed for board certification, etc. Yeah, no one died but the higher you move up the ladder, the more likely that falsifying and getting by doing less than required will come back to bite you and someone (and not you) will die of your dishonesty.

This was a small thing and what you need to do now is a serious self-appraisal of your short-comings, own them, show remorse, and firmly resolve not to do that sort of thing ever again. Plan at least a year of service between college graduation and med school... You'll need to show that you have amended your life and have integrity 100% of the time.

Thank you for your reply. Can you please give me guidance in terms of the chance that I would be accepted? Am I toast at your school, or other schools similar to yours?

 

[yasoo4thalq]

For a lousy two hours to pad your hour count you jeopardized your entire career???

This doesn't look good. Your judgment and ethics are highly suspect.

If I was your thesis advisor, it would also make me question the quality of your research.

EDIT: I agree 100% with my learned colleague LizzyM. You need exemplary behavior from now on, and preferably engage in positions of responsibility. Your medical career might not be over, but it very well may be in deep stasis.

Thanks for your reply Goro. Have you ever seen someone with an IA on the same level of severity get into your school?

 

[Optimist Prime]

Reminds me of that one clown's post a while back asking if he should add 2 hours for his commute to volunteer since "everyone else is doing it". Well I guess OP was just adding commute time.

To his defense I volunteer at a hospice and when traveling to a patients house I'm actually encourage to log this time as volunteer hours in the system. They do this because they need a certain number of volunteer hours a quarter to continue receiving government funding, and this is one loophole they set up with the government to help them. Of course I don't know if his situation is similar to mine. (I don't count this time towards my application, but I do log it into their system)

 

[Goro]

Thanks for your reply Goro. Have you ever seen someone with an IA on the same level of severity get into your school?

No.

 

[LizzyM]

Thank you for your reply. Can you please give me guidance in terms of the chance that I would be accepted? Am I toast at your school, or other schools similar to yours?

Think about it this way: we ask ourselves, "would we want someone who did this at our school?" We would not want someone who falsifies their "graduation requirement" hours. Any sort of academic dishonesty (other than some freshman year "I don't know how to properly cite a passage from another author in my term paper") is going to hurt you in a major way.

Do something very selfless for a few years. Join the military, serve in the Peace Corps, Americorps, Teach for America, etc. Apply 3-4 years after graduation when you can say in hindsight that you were young and immature when that happened and you have grown and matured since then.

 

[getdown]

That "clown" was me, and you're misrepresenting the entire post. I didn't ask because everyone else was doing it, I asked because a lot of people told me that's what you're supposed to do. A lot of these same people are now accepted med students.

Check yourself, mate.

 

[boogiecousins94]

Just out of curiosity, with an IA like this, if op applied and had initial amcas reviewer (during verification) see this IA, would that increase their likelihood of calling the contacts of each activity and verify the hours?

I know that wouldn't mean much as the hours could still be wrong as in this scenario and the supervisor would think they're are correct, just was wondering if amcas people take extra precautions in verification when they see this?

 

[Goro]

Just out of curiosity, with an IA like this, if op applied and had initial amcas reviewer (during verification) see this IA, would that increase their likelihood of calling the contacts of each activity and verify the hours?

I know that wouldn't mean much as the hours could still be wrong as in this scenario and the supervisor would think they're are correct, just was wondering if amcas people take extra precautions in verification when they see this?

I suspect that a screener would simply trash the app.

 

[mock94]

Just out of curiosity, with an IA like this, if op applied and had initial amcas reviewer (during verification) see this IA, would that increase their likelihood of calling the contacts of each activity and verify the hours?

I know that wouldn't mean much as the hours could still be wrong as in this scenario and the supervisor would think they're are correct, just was wondering if amcas people take extra precautions in verification when they see this?

Why go through that work when the person wouldn't even get an interview in the first place? lol

 

[Med Ed]

How severe is this? Should I even apply?

Pretty bad. It's not that everyone in the medical field is an angel, but we have enough problems with the folks who haven't been put on probation.

The good news is that your sin is likely forgivable, but it's going to take some serious penance. And serious penance takes time. If I were in your shoes I'd be looking for two things: 1.) a couple of years of self-flagellation in the most altruistic job you can find (think hand-feeding teenage cancer patients in Antarctica), and, more importantly, 2.) some honest self-reflection on why you would falsify two. Freaking. Hours. We all do stupid things sometimes, only rarely do we have a good reason to ask why. Right now you have that reason.

Here's the catch: if you try to go through the motions to make yourself look sorry, and look like you've grown from this, the lack of sincerity might seep through. If, on the other hand, you accept that the universe is apparently trying to teach you a harsh lesson, and earnestly attempt to gain some insight from it, you may come out the other end a much better human being. And that applies whether or not you ever get into medical school.

Good luck.

 

[Goro]

Why go through that work when the person wouldn't even get an interview in the first place? lol

Because there are people in medical education who believe in redemption.

 

[mariposas905]

I am numb. Just came back from meeting with the Dean. I was put on probation for embellishing my lab hours.

Basically, I need to complete 100 hours of research for my major. I work with a professor in my department, and we have a sign-in/sign-out sheet in a binder. I put that I worked 5 hours last Thursday, but I was actually there for ~2-3 hours. When the PhD student in the lab was putting the hours into the computer, he noticed that since lab was closed early that day for cleaning it was impossible I was there for that long. He reported me to the professor. I admitted my actions to the professor, begged for leniency but he still reported me to the Dean.

The official charge reads something like this:

"Mischaracterization, or attempted mischaracterization, or forgery, or attempted forgery, or falsification of items, credentials or documents belonging to the University or individuals affiliated with the University"

I have a 3.9+ gpa--lowest grade ever was a B+. I'm taking the MCAT in January. Decent ECs, etc etc...

How severe is this? Should I even apply?

I feel for you OP 🙁 It's very unfortunate that a seemingly small mistake could have such drastic consequences in the future. Have you tried your best to speak to the professor, Dean or higher ups to see if there is any way you can keep this off your transcript? Explain how it affects your career and show that you are deeply sorry over this. Perhaps they will be kind and give you another chance without the IA on the record. Otherwise, I agree with the above that it is best to take a few gap years before applying. Good luck and you will get through this!!

 

[Futuredoc23 23]

Prepare for the MCAT but understand that you may not be admitted to medical school, your score may expire and you may need to put many years between this event and your ultimate matriculation into medical school.

Falsifying something like this ... next thing you know, you are falsifying the number of procedures you've performed for board certification, etc. Yeah, no one died but the higher you move up the ladder, the more likely that falsifying and getting by doing less than required will come back to bite you and someone (and not you) will die of your dishonesty.

This was a small thing and what you need to do now is a serious self-appraisal of your short-comings, own them, show remorse, and firmly resolve not to do that sort of thing ever again. Plan at least a year of service between college graduation and med school... You'll need to show that you have amended your life and have integrity 100% of the time.

For a lousy two hours to pad your hour count you jeopardized your entire career???

This doesn't look good. Your judgment and ethics are highly suspect.

If I was your thesis advisor, it would also make me question the quality of your research.

EDIT: I agree 100% with my learned colleague LizzyM. You need exemplary behavior from now on, and preferably engage in positions of responsibility. Your medical career might not be over, but it very well may be in deep stasis.

Get over yourself with your holier than thou attitude.

Step down off your high horse.

I bet over 50% of the people at your school have done this type of activity or something similar and it will never affect their ability to be exceptional physicians. I guarantee that one or possibly both of you have done something similar in the past. The difference is the OP got caught and the PhD student was being an ass and turned the OP in. This type of thing wouldn't concern me too much if was on an admission committee, this is actually very minor assuming this is an isolated incident. As long as you owned the mistake during interviews I wouldn't hold it against you. This is the type of stuff that keeps overpaid and mostly useless medical school employees busy.

 

[MonkeyArrow]

Get over yourself with your holier than thou attitude.

Step down off your high horse.

I bet over 50% of the people at your school have done this type of activity or something similar and it will never affect their ability to be exceptional physicians. I guarantee that one or possibly both of you have done something similar in the past. The difference is the OP got caught and the PhD student was being an ass and turned the OP in. This type of thing wouldn't concern me too much if was on an admission committee, this is actually very minor assuming this is an isolated incident. As long as you owned the mistake during interviews I wouldn't hold it against you. This is the type of stuff that keeps overpaid and mostly useless medical school employees busy.

It is a good thing that your opinion doesn't matter then. People who are on an admissions committees answered the questions, and they're opinions are the only ones that matter at the end of the day. Also, why do you say the "PhD student" was being an ass? Is it only because it was 2 hours? Is it ok to shoplift if you only steal $5 worth of merchandise?

 

[Futuredoc23 23]

It is a good thing that your opinion doesn't matter then. People who are on an admissions committees answered the questions, and they're opinions are the only ones that matter at the end of the day. Also, why do you say the "PhD student" was being an ass? Is it only because it was 2 hours? Is it ok to shoplift if you only steal $5 worth of merchandise?

It is the hypocrisy, that is the reason. Many of the admission committee personnel are more crooked and dishonest than Hillary. This incident is getting blown massively out of proportion and should not appear for one violation. Again, no doubt way over half of all medical students in the country of have done this type of activity or worse.

 

[deleted804295]

I am numb. Just came back from meeting with the Dean. I was put on probation for embellishing my lab hours.

Basically, I need to complete 100 hours of research for my major. I work with a professor in my department, and we have a sign-in/sign-out sheet in a binder. I put that I worked 5 hours last Thursday, but I was actually there for ~2-3 hours. When the PhD student in the lab was putting the hours into the computer, he noticed that since lab was closed early that day for cleaning it was impossible I was there for that long. He reported me to the professor. I admitted my actions to the professor, begged for leniency but he still reported me to the Dean.

The official charge reads something like this:

"Mischaracterization, or attempted mischaracterization, or forgery, or attempted forgery, or falsification of items, credentials or documents belonging to the University or individuals affiliated with the University"

I have a 3.9+ gpa--lowest grade ever was a B+. I'm taking the MCAT in January. Decent ECs, etc etc...

How severe is this? Should I even apply?

I'm sorry. I will try not to make this harsh because it hit you hard already but if you were paid for your research hours you got off lucky with only institutional action and not criminal charges.

I wish the best for you sweetheart. If you need a virtual shoulder to cry on I'm here for you in the DMs. I pray everything goes well for you and that things aren't too hard. I also hope you learn from your mistake. May the earth and all its glories protect you from excessive pain and hurt. May you get through this stronger, brighter, and a more dignified character.

 

[MonkeyArrow]

Many of the admission committee personnel are more crooked and dishonest than Hillary.

And what do you base this on?

 

[Futuredoc23 23]

And what do you base this on?

Statistics and common sense. This type of activity isn't uncommon. Organizations manipulate numbers like this all the time for various purposes. How many fat overpaid admins twittle their thumbs for hours on end when they could be doing something productive? Isn't this stealing money from the institution?

 

[Giovanotto]

My sincerest sympathies OP. You played the game, and got caught. Didn't have to be that way. We've all done something similar to varying degrees (if not, you're a freak). Best of luck.

 

[Futuredoc23 23]

My sincerest sympathies OP. You played the game, and got caught. Didn't have to be that way. We've all done something similarly to varying degrees (if not, you're a freak, don't even bother replying) . Best of luck.

Have you read this thread? Apparently the @Goro and other faculty have never engaged in this type of activity, not even once. They are so much better people than the rest of us.

 

[PreMedMissteps]

I am numb. Just came back from meeting with the Dean. I was put on probation for embellishing my lab hours.

Basically, I need to complete 100 hours of research for my major. I work with a professor in my department, and we have a sign-in/sign-out sheet in a binder. I put that I worked 5 hours last Thursday, but I was actually there for ~2-3 hours. When the PhD student in the lab was putting the hours into the computer, he noticed that since lab was closed early that day for cleaning it was impossible I was there for that long. He reported me to the professor. I admitted my actions to the professor, begged for leniency but he still reported me to the Dean.

The official charge reads something like this:

"Mischaracterization, or attempted mischaracterization, or forgery, or attempted forgery, or falsification of items, credentials or documents belonging to the University or individuals affiliated with the University"

JMHO, if that's how the IA would be reported, using that verbiage would conjure up all sort of bad things, including many things worse than what you actually did. Are you supposed to use that exact verbiage.

 

[878956]

Why would it matter where it is posted? All institutional actions, and probation is an institutional action, MUST be reported on the AMCAS. Failure to do so would be another instance of not being truthful and that would be the kiss of death. Read the classic sociological study of surgical training, Forgive and Remember by Charles L. Bosk with a special focus on Normative Errors.

I am just asking?

 

[Giovanotto]

Have you read this thread? Apparently the @Goro and other faculty have never engaged in this type of activity, not even once. They are so much better people than the rest of us.

Lol, it's the perpetual do as I say and not as I do mantra. I've gotten pretty good at ignoring posters I disagree with these days.

 

[deleted804295]

This thread breaks my heart and I'm not even OP, I really cant imagine what he's going through right now. Honestly for everything small I do now I really need to check whether it's worth it to forego medical school.

Goodbye extra two minutes on Math exams I use after proctor says drop your pencils yet everyone is still frivolously writing. Goodbye homework I do with friends. Goodbye asking for what can potentially be on an exam from friends who are in different sections.

This is hard. I really need some Mary J after reading this and I've never smoked in my life. 🙁 I'm going to work 10x harder and cleaner in life just reading this and the comments. I hope everyone and OP learns from OPs deliberate mistake and works on it to better themselves.

Again OP I pray you learn from your mistakes and work harder. The consequence is a set back in life but it's not a death sentence.

 

[Futuredoc23 23]

JMHO, if that's how the IA would be reported, using that verbiage would conjure up all sort of bad things, including many things worse than what you actually did. Are you supposed to use that exact verbiage.

Are the admins to lazy to charge you with something specific? They make it sound like you were embezzling money or stealing lab supplies. May be worth getting a lawyer to ensure minimal damage. You can appeal this.

 

[878956]

Why would it matter where it is posted? All institutional actions, and probation is an institutional action, MUST be reported on the AMCAS. Failure to do so would be another instance of not being truthful and that would be the kiss of death. Read the classic sociological study of surgical training, Forgive and Remember by Charles L. Bosk with a special focus on Normative Errors.

In an ideal world, I understand where you are coming from but pre med is a game and it is a game that isnt played fair. Regardless of how you may feel. I am just being real.

 

[Futuredoc23 23]

Statistics and common sense. This type of activity isn't uncommon. Organizations manipulate numbers like this all the time for various purposes. How many fat overpaid admins twittle their thumbs for hours on end when they could be doing something productive? Isn't this stealing money from the institution?

How many hours has @Goro and @LizzyM among others played on SDN while they were being paid by their employers? Pretty sure SDN isn't in their job description.

 

[Giovanotto]

This thread breaks my heart and I'm not even OP, I really cant imagine what he's going through right now. Honestly for everything small I do now I really need to check whether it's worth it to forego medical school.

Goodbye extra two minutes on Math exams I use after proctor says drop your pencils yet everyone is still frivolously writing. Goodbye homework I do with friends. Goodbye asking for what can potentially be on an exam from friends who are in different sections.

This is hard. I really need some Mary J after reading this and I've never smoked in my life. 🙁 I'm going to work 10x harder and cleaner in life just reading this and the comments. I hope everyone and OP learns from OPs deliberate mistake and works on it to better themselves.

Again OP I pray you learn from your mistakes and work harder. The consequence is a set back in life but it's not a death sentence.

Grr, no offense, but this is such a Pet-peeve of mine. Even medical students do this and it drives me crazy.

 

[Futuredoc23 23]

This thread breaks my heart and I'm not even OP, I really cant imagine what he's going through right now. Honestly for everything small I do now I really need to check whether it's worth it to forego medical school.

Goodbye extra two minutes on Math exams I use after proctor says drop your pencils yet everyone is still frivolously writing. Goodbye homework I do with friends. Goodbye asking for what can potentially be on an exam from friends who are in different sections.

This is hard. I really need some Mary J after reading this and I've never smoked in my life. 🙁 I'm going to work 10x harder and cleaner in life just reading this and the comments. I hope everyone and OP learns from OPs deliberate mistake and works on it to better themselves.

Again OP I pray you learn from your mistakes and work harder. The consequence is a set back in life but it's not a death sentence.

Based on your confessions here, you have essentially disqualified yourself from medical school. jk jk jk

 

[Goro]

Get over yourself with your holier than thou attitude.

Step down off your high horse.

I bet over 50% of the people at your school have done this type of activity or something similar and it will never affect their ability to be exceptional physicians. I guarantee that one or possibly both of you have done something similar in the past. The difference is the OP got caught and the PhD student was being an ass and turned the OP in. This type of thing wouldn't concern me too much if was on an admission committee, this is actually very minor assuming this is an isolated incident. As long as you owned the mistake during interviews I wouldn't hold it against you. This is the type of stuff that keeps overpaid and mostly useless medical school employees busy.

The only people I see spouting the "everybody cheats attitude" are people who routinely cheat.
In reading over your post history I see you're giving off quite the aroma of one of these, activating Ignore function now. You'll feel some slight pressure between the eyes.

 

[deleted804295]

In an ideal world, I understand where you are coming from but pre med is a game and it is a game that isnt played fair. Regardless of how you may feel. I am just being real.

Adcoms on here are being unnecessarily harsh however that's the reality from what they see it. Perhaps they're far removed from college but about 50% of the students receiving As in my OCHEM class are sitting in the back cheating. I deliberately sit in the front so I don't get accidently mixed in with these kids if they're ever reported. I'd rather fairly get a B than risk my life for a potential A in a one semester course.

 

[Futuredoc23 23]

The only people I see spouting the "everybody cheats attitude" are people who routinely cheat.
In reading over your post history I see you're giving off quite the aroma of one of these, activating Ignore function now. You'll feel some slight pressure between the eyes.

Sure coward, ignore me when you can't defend your ignorant position. I'd trust you about as much as I trust a fat kid near a cookie jar.

 

[deleted804295]

Sure coward, ignore me when you can't defend your ignorant position. I'd trust you about as much as I trust a fat kid near a cookie jar.

Hey sweety, let's be nice. Yes he called you a cheater but you can be the better person.

 

[Terror Billy]

Ironic how the guy invoking "crooked", "dishonest", and "Hillary" is coming off like a deplorable. Bro SDN isn't your safe space ya snowflake, if you want reaffirmation go talk to mommy

 

[mariposas905]

Adcoms on here are being unnecessarily harsh however that's the reality from what they see it. Perhaps they're far removed from college but about 50% of the students receiving As in my OCHEM class are sitting in the back cheating. I deliberately sit in the front so I don't get accidently mixed in with these kids if they're ever reported. I'd rather fairly get a B than risk my life for a potential A in a one semester course.

This is very true...At my undergrad, several people who cheated to get their 4.0s got into the guaranteed med school program, while those who genuinely got their 3.6 GPA were rejected for not meeting the GPA cutoff. It makes me sad that some people get off so easy 🙁 and this was at a med school whose adcoms were always talking about how ethical their students were lol

 

[878956]

In pre-med, the mantra that cheaters never prosper is false, cheaters who get caught do not prosper, but I have seen many a cheater get into top 10 medical schools, namely Harvard and Penn.