Insulin pen, box: open box or not? Rite Aid Old Memo of 2013?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
What on earth are you talking about? They are clearly saying you have to have the right day supply or call to try an override. Every time you check something at Walgreens, are you doing that? No the d/s is wrong ! Am I correct? It also says the intervals must be correct. It wont be correct if you keep billing one box for 30 d/s and it is actually 60 days. If the patient comes back at 35 days, you just comitted fraud. Do you understand now?

Umm no. Read it. It says you have to call and document if the 1 box is to be 30 days supply. Otherwise, it would have told you to split the boxes, which it didnt. That's why your colleagues are not splitting boxes and it's just you. I know plenty of CVS pharmacists and no one is splitting boxes and they work in NJ as well.

Also, your letter is from 2012 bro.

Members don't see this ad.
 
Last edited:
I'm amused at how continually ignorant you are. Why would I waste time creating an account when I am not trying to argue with you any further?

I am amused that you've dedicated so much time and effort into all of this. It shows how invested you are and it amuses me.
 
I am amused that you've dedicated so much time and effort into all of this. It shows how invested you are and it amuses me.

Aren't you supposed to be checking to make sure all the tamper seals are still on the stock bottles?
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Umm no. Read it. It says you have to call and document if the 1 box is to be 30 days supply. Otherwise, it would have told you to split the boxes, which it didnt. That's why your colleagues are not splitting boxes and it's just you. I know plenty of CVS pharmacists and no one is splitting boxes and they work in NJ as well.

Wow. When the override is given, it allows you to change the d/s on the claim. Im sure you don’t do this at your pharmacy. Ok let’s end it right here. The document says you have to submit the correct day supply- there is no contesting that. When you submit insulin pens at the pharmacy, are the day supply correct with what you are dispensing. Simple question. Be honest now and answer truthfully. The document says you cannot submit the wrong day supply- Do you do that?
 
Wow. When the override is given, it allows you to change the d/s on the claim. Im sure you don’t do this at your pharmacy. Ok let’s end it right here. The document says you have to submit the correct day supply- there is no contesting that. When you submit insulin pens at the pharmacy, are the day supply correct with what you are dispensing. Simple question. Be honest now and answer truthfully. The document says you cannot submit the wrong day supply- Do you do that?

Bro, stop it. You're clearly stretching whatever is said in that letter. On top of that, the letter is from 2012. We can have CVS pharmacists come on here and chime in if you want. A few have already done so and they all contradicted what you said.
 
Bro, stop it. You're clearly stretching whatever is said in that letter. On top of that, the letter is from 2012. We can have CVS pharmacists come on here and chime in if you want. A few have already done so and they all contradicted what you said.

I work for CVS, and our district and neighboring districts (except for possibly the newer Target stores- can't say for certain) all have been doing so. And now I'll wait for the "you are the only one doing it comment". :corny:
 
Bro, stop it. You're clearly stretching whatever is said in that letter. On top of that, the letter is from 2012. We can have CVS pharmacists come on here and chime in if you want. A few have already done so and they all contradicted what you said.
No no, don’t do that. Answer the question. Its a simple question. Why won’t you answer it?
 
I work for CVS, and our district and neighboring districts (except for possibly the newer Target stores- can't say for certain) all have been doing so. And now I'll wait for the "you are the only one doing it comment". :corny:

Look at the first page of this thread for all your colleagues who are saying to never break insulin boxes per CVS/Caremark guidelines, and they are posting from 2015 not your silly 2012 letter.
 
No no, don’t do that. Answer the question. Its a simple question. Why won’t you answer it?

umm cuz it clearly says you can if you call and document it in situations where it is appropriate. did you not read? I thought that was pretty self evident.
 
Look at the first page of this thread for all your colleagues who are saying to never break insulin boxes per CVS/Caremark guidelines, and they are posting from 2015 not your silly 2012 letter.

The thread doesn’t matter. That document is newer than anything you posted from Caremark. That is the point. Once again, answer the question. Are the day supply from your insulin pens at YOUR pharmacy correct when submitted to the insurance?
 
The thread doesn’t matter. That document is newer than anything you posted from Caremark. That is the point. Once again, answer the question. Are the day supply from your insulin pens at YOUR pharmacy correct when submitted to the insurance?

No, I actually think your letter is older. The document that was posted by them is newer. Of course the thread matters, these are your colleagues at CVS. And, that response was for Josh not you...why are you responding? Forgot to log in as josh? LMAO

Yes, the insulin day supply is always correct when I submit it. Never had anyone told me otherwise.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
The issue that seems to be still missed is Walgreens after all these years still doesn't let us open a box. Now not everyone may agree but Walgreens is a well run company. When it notices millions being lost, it would make a change kind of like when they now force us to put in nebulizer purchase date.
 
No, I actually think your letter is older. The document that was posted by them is newer. Of course the thread matters, these are your colleagues at CVS. And, that response was for Josh not you...why are you responding? Forgot to log in as josh? LMAO

Yes, the insulin day supply is always correct when I submit it. Never had anyone told me otherwise.

Why are you lying? How can you submit the correct day supply if Sig reads 10 units qd 1500 units a box would be 150 ds. You submit it for 30/90 days right?
 
Why are you lying? How can you submit the correct day supply if Sig reads 10 units qd 1500 units a box would be 150 ds. You submit it for 30/90 days right?

Because the insurance told me that it's correct. End of discussion. I mean if you are billing a payor and they tell you that the day supply is correct then it's correct. Who are you to tell me otherwise? You're just some Josh dude working at CVS who can barely read a memo correctly. I mean we have a bunch of your CVS colleagues on this thread who are telling you that you are wrong but you're acting like a child by creating accounts to argue back and forth.
 
Because the insurance told me that it's correct. End of discussion. I mean if you are billing a payor and they tell you that the day supply is correct then it's correct. Who are you to tell me otherwise? You're just some Josh dude working at CVS who can barely read a memo correctly.

Insurance hasn’t told you crap. Thanks for confirming you are submitting the incorrect day supply, committing fraud and lying about it. Im done with this discussion because in essence, you have shown you can care less about overcharging insurances. Go look up the most audited rxs last year. Every single insulin pen was top ten. There is a reason you don’t see them.
 
Insurance hasn’t told you crap. Thanks for confirming you are submitting the incorrect day supply, committing fraud and lying about it. Im done with this discussion because in essence, you have shown you can care less about overcharging insurances. Go look up the most audited rxs last year. Every single insulin pen was top ten. There is a reason you don’t see them.
Actually they have. I was manager for 3 years and I've talked to them during audits...HORIZON/AETNA/UNH. They told me it's okay to bill 1 box for 30. There has never been a chargeback for any of that. They actually told me to not break insulin boxes because of safety issues.

Go look up the most audited rxs last year. Every single insulin pen was top ten. There is a reason you don’t see them.

SHOW ME. Talk is cheap.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
The issue that seems to be still missed is Walgreens after all these years still doesn't let us open a box. Now not everyone may agree but Walgreens is a well run company. When it notices millions being lost, it would make a change kind of like when they now force us to put in nebulizer purchase date.

Going to have to disagree.
Actually they have. I was manager for 3 years and I've talked to them during audits...HORIZON/AETNA/UNH. They told me it's okay to bill 1 box for 30. There has never been a chargeback for any of that. They actually told me to not break insulin boxes because of safety issues.

Who do you work for? The chargebacks go to corporate. The fraud occurs on the refills when they are filled early since the last d/s was wrong
 
This is exa
I run an independent pharmacy.

I've forgotten more about billing, "charge backs", audits, and Medicare then you'll ever know.

I'll post this in bold so you can finally understand it:

The proper way to Bill an Rx for an insulin pen with TDD < 50u to Medicare Part D is to call the Pharmacy Help Desk, notify them of the sig, actual days supply, and maximum allowable days supply per the plan.
They will then document this, and you in turn will document the override in the patient's profile.
If an audit comes, you give them the information, and they'll clear the audit.


 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Going to have to disagree.


Who do you work for? The chargebacks go to corporate. The fraud occurs on the refills when they are filled early since the last d/s was wrong

I get a list of all the chargebacks as pharmacy manager (walgreens). As pharmacy manager, you should always be present during an audit as well. It appears you have neither of these experiences to speak of.
 
I work at walg, I always run box for 30 if ins requires it (first run for 100 or whatever), never been told not too, and never met a RPh in district that split them and I've floated to 20+ stores...
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Also, @Lnsean

It's interesting how the only two people using the colloquialism "charge back" "charged back" are pharmanut and Josh.

Furthermore, I don't think he noticed during his flurry of Ctrl+C -> Ctrl+V that he was posting evidence that only Envision Rx requires split boxes.

I've literally never seen an EnvisionRx.
Is that a FL specific plan?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
I work at walg, I always run box for 30 if ins requires it (first run for 100 or whatever), never been told not too, and never met a RPh in district that split them and I've floated to 20+ stores...

How can you come across anyone that splits them if you can’t at Walgreens?
 
Oh god here we go

Please go back to Josh6718's post where he posts evidence that EnvisionRx is the *only* PBM that requires that insulin boxes be broken.

If only one miniscule, insignificant PBM requires it, how do you defend your pants on head position that it is the absolute correct practice?

 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I get a list of all the chargebacks as pharmacy manager (walgreens). As pharmacy manager, you should always be present during an audit as well. It appears you have neither of these experiences to speak of.

Wrong again. Chargebacks at Walgreens now are at district levels. As your DM
 
So does Florida Medicaid and many other PBMs. Do some research


Please go back to Josh6718's post where he posts evidence that EnvisionRx is the *only* PBM that requires that insulin boxes be broken.

If only one miniscule, insignificant PBM requires it, how do you defend your pants on head position that it is the absolute correct practice?

 
Going to have to disagree.


Who do you work for? The chargebacks go to corporate. The fraud occurs on the refills when they are filled early since the last d/s was wrong

Are you going to say why you disagree?

Do you think they are not noticing, don't care, just haven't gotten to it, or oblivious?
 
Are you going to say why you disagree?

Do you think they are not noticing, don't care, just haven't gotten to it, or oblivious?

Too much overall revenue to care. If you look at the most audited rxs last year, insulin pens were all top 10. They pay the fines and move on. Walgreens just paid a huge fraud settlement this year and has been caught multiple times defrauding insurances. Google Walgreens DOJ fraud
 
Wrong again. Chargebacks at Walgreens now are at district levels. As your DM
We are shown chargebacks so if they were ridiculously high, someone would be talking to us
 
Wrong again. Chargebacks at Walgreens now are at district levels. As your DM

I can see them you know. How are you going to tell me? lol. I'm not manager anymore because I am in school now but I get packets from the PBMs detailing the audit encounter with a list of issues or Rxs that I should appeal or correct or accept. I cant speak for the last 2 years but my RXM can see all the chargebacks still.
 
We are shown chargebacks so if they were ridiculously high, someone would be talking to us

Walgreens was caught multiple times defrauding. A few years ago, they were dispensing Fluoxetine tabs instead of caps so they could get higher reimbursement from Medicaid. They paid a huge fine and admitted wrongdoing
 
Too much overall revenue to care. If you look at the most audited rxs last year, insulin pens were all top 10. They pay the fines and move on. Walgreens just paid a huge fraud settlement this year and has been caught multiple times defrauding insurances. Google Walgreens DOJ fraud

Idk I feel like it would be something that would come up since this year's big thing is comp loss.
 
Also, @Lnsean

It's interesting how the only two people using the colloquialism "charge back" "charged back" are pharmanut and Josh.

Furthermore, I don't think he noticed during his flurry of Ctrl+C -> Ctrl+V that he was posting evidence that only Envision Rx requires split boxes.

I've literally never seen an EnvisionRx.
Is that a FL specific plan?

and he created a new account and started jumping all over everyone and then expects everyone to believe that it's not him on a different account. jesus, how immature do you have to be to even think of doing something like this.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Yeah I would think the higher ups would do something to let us know (esp new Rphs like me) if there was any way to help them reduce $$$ lost to audits... But haven't heard a peep about pen/boxes/etc
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Walgreens was caught multiple times defrauding. A few years ago, they were dispensing Fluoxetine tabs instead of caps so they could get higher reimbursement from Medicaid. They paid a huge fine and admitted wrongdoing

Again, thats totally different from insulin boxes. I don't know why you keep throwing out random examples that have nothing to do with your argument. Here are the guidelines from medco/express scripts (the largest PBM) for insulin boxes:

The submitted NDC must be the complete NDC of the medication dispensed, including the package size. For example, if ten (10) or more vials of Pergonal® or similar products are dispensed at one time, the NDC number of the 10-pack must be submitted. Drug products contained in “unbreakable” packages as determined by the FDA must be in their original packaging and dispensed as a whole unit. Examples include oral contraceptives, Accutane 10-packs, etc. The Network Provider must use actual metric package sizes when available. If the metric measurement is not available, the following standard conversions should be used:
o One fluid ounce = 30 ml.
o One pint = 480 ml.
o One liter = 1000 ml.
o One ounce = 30 g.
o One pound = 454 g.

2.13 Days Supply
The exact number of consecutive days supply must be submitted, with the calculation based on the metric quantity prescribed and the Prescriber’s exact written directions. If the Prescriber does not provide exact directions, or writes “as directed” or “prn”, or writes directions where a consecutive days supply cannot be calculated, Network Provider must call the Prescriber or ask the Member for the directions, document such directions on the prescription, initial the same, and submit the exact days supply based on those directions and the quantity prescribed. Prescriber’s signature on the prescription does not translate into an assumed days supply. Stated another way, days supply must always be calculated based on the information on the prescription and must never be assumed.
-------------------------------
However, the following exceptions are listed under "6.5 Discrepancy Glossary:"
-------------------------------
For products dispensed in unit of use packaging, allow for “as directed” with the following guidelines:
• If no specific quantity indicated, Network Provider must call Prescriber for quantity or directions for use to calculate quantity.
• If specific quantity is given and the smallest available package size is prescribed, dispense with “as directed” for a 30-day supply. If quantity indicated is not smallest package size, the Network Provider must document directions for use.
• As Directed may be used in the following conditions (all others require specific directions)
o Test Strips and Lancets – one box of 100 for 30 days
o Insulin Vials – up to 2 vials for a 30-day supply
o Insulin Syringes – 1 box of 100 for a 30-day supply (or 9 packages of 10)
o Insulin Cartridges/Pens – 1 box for 30 days
o Pen Needles – 1 box for 30 days

For oral solids dispensed as individual tablets, specific directions for use are required, except:
• Warfarin products: If dispensed as a 1 for 1 ratio, dispense with “as directed” (e.g. 30 for 30 days, 90 for 90 days)
• Steroids: When directions are “as directed per tapering dose,”
• All oral solids dispensed in manufacturer’s original packaging must have directions for use except:
o Drugs on current Quantity Level Limits (QLL) list (e.g. Viagra, Imitrex). If QLL is exceeded, must have directions for use.
o Manufacturers’ packaging has pre-printed patient instructions (e.g. Fosamax).
--------------------------------
Back to "2.13 Days Supply"
--------------------------------
Should the days supply submitted exceed the Sponsor’s Prescription Drug Program’s limitation, Network Provider will receive a “days limit = ‘x’ ” online message. Please do not reduce days supply without also reducing quantity. In such case, based on the Prescriber’s directions, reduce the quantity dispensed to the Member proportional with the reduction in days. Failure to reduce a quantity when reducing a days supply may result in a recoupment of the over-billed amount upon audit.



Okay? Can you stfu. They are saying it's okay. Move on.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Idk I feel like it would be something that would come up since this year's big thing is comp loss.

Please stop using that excuse thinking Walgreens is all innocent. Look at just a few of these when you google Walgreens DOJ fraud. Did they tell you anything about any of these???? I doubt it.
 
Please stop using that excuse thinking Walgreens is all innocent. Look at just a few of these when you google Walgreens DOJ fraud. Did they tell you anything about any of these???? I doubt it.

stop avoiding the question and going off topic
 
Again, thats totally different from insulin boxes. I don't know why you keep throwing out random examples that have nothing to do with your argument. Here are the guidelines from medco/express scripts (the largest PBM) for insulin boxes:

The submitted NDC must be the complete NDC of the medication dispensed, including the package size. For example, if ten (10) or more vials of Pergonal® or similar products are dispensed at one time, the NDC number of the 10-pack must be submitted. Drug products contained in “unbreakable” packages as determined by the FDA must be in their original packaging and dispensed as a whole unit. Examples include oral contraceptives, Accutane 10-packs, etc. The Network Provider must use actual metric package sizes when available. If the metric measurement is not available, the following standard conversions should be used:
o One fluid ounce = 30 ml.
o One pint = 480 ml.
o One liter = 1000 ml.
o One ounce = 30 g.
o One pound = 454 g.

2.13 Days Supply
The exact number of consecutive days supply must be submitted, with the calculation based on the metric quantity prescribed and the Prescriber’s exact written directions. If the Prescriber does not provide exact directions, or writes “as directed” or “prn”, or writes directions where a consecutive days supply cannot be calculated, Network Provider must call the Prescriber or ask the Member for the directions, document such directions on the prescription, initial the same, and submit the exact days supply based on those directions and the quantity prescribed. Prescriber’s signature on the prescription does not translate into an assumed days supply. Stated another way, days supply must always be calculated based on the information on the prescription and must never be assumed.
-------------------------------
However, the following exceptions are listed under "6.5 Discrepancy Glossary:"
-------------------------------
For products dispensed in unit of use packaging, allow for “as directed” with the following guidelines:
• If no specific quantity indicated, Network Provider must call Prescriber for quantity or directions for use to calculate quantity.
• If specific quantity is given and the smallest available package size is prescribed, dispense with “as directed” for a 30-day supply. If quantity indicated is not smallest package size, the Network Provider must document directions for use.
• As Directed may be used in the following conditions (all others require specific directions)
o Test Strips and Lancets – one box of 100 for 30 days
o Insulin Vials – up to 2 vials for a 30-day supply
o Insulin Syringes – 1 box of 100 for a 30-day supply (or 9 packages of 10)
o Insulin Cartridges/Pens – 1 box for 30 days
o Pen Needles – 1 box for 30 days

For oral solids dispensed as individual tablets, specific directions for use are required, except:
• Warfarin products: If dispensed as a 1 for 1 ratio, dispense with “as directed” (e.g. 30 for 30 days, 90 for 90 days)
• Steroids: When directions are “as directed per tapering dose,”
• All oral solids dispensed in manufacturer’s original packaging must have directions for use except:
o Drugs on current Quantity Level Limits (QLL) list (e.g. Viagra, Imitrex). If QLL is exceeded, must have directions for use.
o Manufacturers’ packaging has pre-printed patient instructions (e.g. Fosamax).
--------------------------------
Back to "2.13 Days Supply"
--------------------------------
Should the days supply submitted exceed the Sponsor’s Prescription Drug Program’s limitation, Network Provider will receive a “days limit = ‘x’ ” online message. Please do not reduce days supply without also reducing quantity. In such case, based on the Prescriber’s directions, reduce the quantity dispensed to the Member proportional with the reduction in days. Failure to reduce a quantity when reducing a days supply may result in a recoupment of the over-billed amount upon audit.



Okay? Can you stfu. They are saying it's okay. Move on.


Are you stupid? I already told you this was outdated and you are showing me one document that has changed where multiple documents said you have to open the boxes. Florida Medicaid, envision PBMs, prime rx. Why do you ignore all these and pretend the one outdated document is correct?? No wonder you didn’t make it as a pharmacist.
 
Please stop using that excuse thinking Walgreens is all innocent. Look at just a few of these when you google Walgreens DOJ fraud. Did they tell you anything about any of these???? I doubt it.
Calm down, I'm not defending I'm giving you info. I've never seen us lose out on a insulin claim. I am not saying no one ever does but it does keep track of it so we can see it.
 
Are you stupid? I already told you this was outdated and you are showing me one document that has changed where multiple documents said you have to open the boxes. Florida Medicaid, envision PBMs, prime rx. Why do you ignore all these and pretend the one outdated document is correct?? No wonder you didn’t make it as a pharmacist.

No actually this is current. You can register and log in to read it straight from medco. Here's the link:

Pharmacist Resource Center
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Are you stupid? I already told you this was outdated and you are showing me one document that has changed where multiple documents said you have to open the boxes. Florida Medicaid, envision PBMs, prime rx. Why do you ignore all these and pretend the one outdated document is correct?? No wonder you didn’t make it as a pharmacist.

Uh, you posted about those from your Jake account
 
No actually this is current. You can register and log in to read it straight from medco. Here's the link:



Just because they limit one box per 30 days doesn’t mean you can go over.
Again, thats totally different from insulin boxes. I don't know why you keep throwing out random examples that have nothing to do with your argument. Here are the guidelines from medco/express scripts (the largest PBM) for insulin boxes:

The submitted NDC must be the complete NDC of the medication dispensed, including the package size. For example, if ten (10) or more vials of Pergonal® or similar products are dispensed at one time, the NDC number of the 10-pack must be submitted. Drug products contained in “unbreakable” packages as determined by the FDA must be in their original packaging and dispensed as a whole unit. Examples include oral contraceptives, Accutane 10-packs, etc. The Network Provider must use actual metric package sizes when available. If the metric measurement is not available, the following standard conversions should be used:
o One fluid ounce = 30 ml.
o One pint = 480 ml.
o One liter = 1000 ml.
o One ounce = 30 g.
o One pound = 454 g.

2.13 Days Supply
The exact number of consecutive days supply must be submitted, with the calculation based on the metric quantity prescribed and the Prescriber’s exact written directions. If the Prescriber does not provide exact directions, or writes “as directed” or “prn”, or writes directions where a consecutive days supply cannot be calculated, Network Provider must call the Prescriber or ask the Member for the directions, document such directions on the prescription, initial the same, and submit the exact days supply based on those directions and the quantity prescribed. Prescriber’s signature on the prescription does not translate into an assumed days supply. Stated another way, days supply must always be calculated based on the information on the prescription and must never be assumed.
-------------------------------
However, the following exceptions are listed under "6.5 Discrepancy Glossary:"
-------------------------------
For products dispensed in unit of use packaging, allow for “as directed” with the following guidelines:
• If no specific quantity indicated, Network Provider must call Prescriber for quantity or directions for use to calculate quantity.
• If specific quantity is given and the smallest available package size is prescribed, dispense with “as directed” for a 30-day supply. If quantity indicated is not smallest package size, the Network Provider must document directions for use.
• As Directed may be used in the following conditions (all others require specific directions)
o Test Strips and Lancets – one box of 100 for 30 days
o Insulin Vials – up to 2 vials for a 30-day supply
o Insulin Syringes – 1 box of 100 for a 30-day supply (or 9 packages of 10)
o Insulin Cartridges/Pens – 1 box for 30 days
o Pen Needles – 1 box for 30 days

For oral solids dispensed as individual tablets, specific directions for use are required, except:
• Warfarin products: If dispensed as a 1 for 1 ratio, dispense with “as directed” (e.g. 30 for 30 days, 90 for 90 days)
• Steroids: When directions are “as directed per tapering dose,”
• All oral solids dispensed in manufacturer’s original packaging must have directions for use except:
o Drugs on current Quantity Level Limits (QLL) list (e.g. Viagra, Imitrex). If QLL is exceeded, must have directions for use.
o Manufacturers’ packaging has pre-printed patient instructions (e.g. Fosamax).
--------------------------------
Back to "2.13 Days Supply"
--------------------------------
Should the days supply submitted exceed the Sponsor’s Prescription Drug Program’s limitation, Network Provider will receive a “days limit = ‘x’ ” online message. Please do not reduce days supply without also reducing quantity. In such case, based on the Prescriber’s directions, reduce the quantity dispensed to the Member proportional with the reduction in days. Failure to reduce a quantity when reducing a days supply may result in a recoupment of the over-billed amount upon audit.



Okay? Can you stfu. They are saying it's okay. Move on.

So you are going to ignore the part that says to make sure days supply is correct. This is if the md writes use as directed. How many times does that happen? Barely ever
 
Again, thats totally different from insulin boxes. I don't know why you keep throwing out random examples that have nothing to do with your argument. Here are the guidelines from medco/express scripts (the largest PBM) for insulin boxes:

The submitted NDC must be the complete NDC of the medication dispensed, including the package size. For example, if ten (10) or more vials of Pergonal® or similar products are dispensed at one time, the NDC number of the 10-pack must be submitted. Drug products contained in “unbreakable” packages as determined by the FDA must be in their original packaging and dispensed as a whole unit. Examples include oral contraceptives, Accutane 10-packs, etc. The Network Provider must use actual metric package sizes when available. If the metric measurement is not available, the following standard conversions should be used:
o One fluid ounce = 30 ml.
o One pint = 480 ml.
o One liter = 1000 ml.
o One ounce = 30 g.
o One pound = 454 g.

2.13 Days Supply
The exact number of consecutive days supply must be submitted, with the calculation based on the metric quantity prescribed and the Prescriber’s exact written directions. If the Prescriber does not provide exact directions, or writes “as directed” or “prn”, or writes directions where a consecutive days supply cannot be calculated, Network Provider must call the Prescriber or ask the Member for the directions, document such directions on the prescription, initial the same, and submit the exact days supply based on those directions and the quantity prescribed. Prescriber’s signature on the prescription does not translate into an assumed days supply. Stated another way, days supply must always be calculated based on the information on the prescription and must never be assumed.
-------------------------------
However, the following exceptions are listed under "6.5 Discrepancy Glossary:"
-------------------------------
For products dispensed in unit of use packaging, allow for “as directed” with the following guidelines:
• If no specific quantity indicated, Network Provider must call Prescriber for quantity or directions for use to calculate quantity.
• If specific quantity is given and the smallest available package size is prescribed, dispense with “as directed” for a 30-day supply. If quantity indicated is not smallest package size, the Network Provider must document directions for use.
• As Directed may be used in the following conditions (all others require specific directions)
o Test Strips and Lancets – one box of 100 for 30 days
o Insulin Vials – up to 2 vials for a 30-day supply
o Insulin Syringes – 1 box of 100 for a 30-day supply (or 9 packages of 10)
o Insulin Cartridges/Pens – 1 box for 30 days
o Pen Needles – 1 box for 30 days

For oral solids dispensed as individual tablets, specific directions for use are required, except:
• Warfarin products: If dispensed as a 1 for 1 ratio, dispense with “as directed” (e.g. 30 for 30 days, 90 for 90 days)
• Steroids: When directions are “as directed per tapering dose,”
• All oral solids dispensed in manufacturer’s original packaging must have directions for use except:
o Drugs on current Quantity Level Limits (QLL) list (e.g. Viagra, Imitrex). If QLL is exceeded, must have directions for use.
o Manufacturers’ packaging has pre-printed patient instructions (e.g. Fosamax).
--------------------------------
Back to "2.13 Days Supply"
--------------------------------
Should the days supply submitted exceed the Sponsor’s Prescription Drug Program’s limitation, Network Provider will receive a “days limit = ‘x’ ” online message. Please do not reduce days supply without also reducing quantity. In such case, based on the Prescriber’s directions, reduce the quantity dispensed to the Member proportional with the reduction in days. Failure to reduce a quantity when reducing a days supply may result in a recoupment of the over-billed amount upon audit.



Okay? Can you stfu. They are saying it's okay. Move on.
This is unrelated to the point of contention. It is referring to prescriptions with a sig of “Take As Directed”.
 
This is unrelated to the point of contention. It is referring to prescriptions with a sig of “Take As Directed”.

I left out this last paragraph:

"The exact metric quantity (as defined by NCPDP) of the drug prescribed must be submitted. Network Provider should not reduce the quantity unless required due to a “quantity limit = x” online message. In this case, reduce the quantity accordingly. Quantity must also be reduced when receiving a “days limit = x” online message. In such case, calculate the new metric quantity based upon the Prescription Drug Program’s days supply limit and the Prescriber’s exact written directions for use. Failure to reduce a quantity when reducing a days supply will result in a recoupment of the over-billed amount upon audit. In cases where the drug prescribed is an unbreakable package, reduce the quantity to the smallest package size available closest to the Prescription Drug Program’s days supply limit and enter the maximum days supply allowed by the Sponsor’s Prescription Drug Program."


and no...I don't think insulin boxes are breakable (there is no tamper protection for the pens outside of the box) and I think that is standard of practice.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I left out this last paragraph:

"The exact metric quantity (as defined by NCPDP) of the drug prescribed must be submitted. Network Provider should not reduce the quantity unless required due to a “quantity limit = x” online message. In this case, reduce the quantity accordingly. Quantity must also be reduced when receiving a “days limit = x” online message. In such case, calculate the new metric quantity based upon the Prescription Drug Program’s days supply limit and the Prescriber’s exact written directions for use. Failure to reduce a quantity when reducing a days supply will result in a recoupment of the over-billed amount upon audit. In cases where the drug prescribed is an unbreakable package, reduce the quantity to the smallest package size available closest to the Prescription Drug Program’s days supply limit and enter the maximum days supply allowed by the Sponsor’s Prescription Drug Program."


and no...I don't think insulin boxes are breakable (there is no tamper protection for the pens outside of the box) and I think that is standard of practice.


The minimum package size is 3 ml. Look at the package insert of the levemir flex. It says the pens come in a package of 3 ml. This alone proves my point. No I will not show this to you as you can look it up yourself
 
The minimum package size is 3 ml. Look at the package insert of the levemir flex. It says the pens come in a package of 3 ml. This alone proves my point. No I will not show this to you as you can look it up yourself

That's like saying the minimum size for albuterol vials is 3ml and you can bill for invidual vials. The standard of practice is you don't open albuterol boxes and you don't open insulin boxes. Do so at your own risk and judgement. That's what everyone here is telling you. You can do whatever you want. You do whatever you want and everyone else will continue to do what the standard is...okay? Just know that you are alone in this. Let's leave it at that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
That's like saying the minimum size for albuterol vials is 3ml and you can bill for invidual vials. The standard of practice is you don't open insulin boxes. Do so at your own risk and judgement. That's what everyone here is telling you. You can do whatever you want.

Actually you can bill and take those vials out. Here it is. If the box can’t be broken, why do they say the package size is 3 ml ?? 10 ml for vials. Game , set , match. Its over. Point proven. Now go back to your GED class.
 

Attachments

  • 6C6FE2C8-CFD1-4FA7-8B3F-AD601B8D9388.jpeg
    6C6FE2C8-CFD1-4FA7-8B3F-AD601B8D9388.jpeg
    152 KB · Views: 53
Top