Integrated plastics average board scores?

[samsoccer7]

Any idea? I wonder if I have a shot at integrated plastics, pulled a 241, but won't be AOA (i doubt it at least) and don't have research.

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[Winged Scapula]

I don't know of any published data, but usually > 230 is the figure bandied about.

 

[samsoccer7]

So do I have a shot without AOA? You might not really be able to tell me, but maybe you've heard from others.

Also, is ENT followed by facial aesthetics fellowship harder or easier to get?

 

[Winged Scapula]

Originally posted by samsoccer7
So do I have a shot without AOA? You might not really be able to tell me, but maybe you've heard from others.

Also, is ENT followed by facial aesthetics fellowship harder or easier to get?

I'd say so, but you will be competing with an awful lot of people who are AOA.

IMHO, Integrated PRS is more difficult to match into than ENT followed by facial aesthetics.

 

[Airborne]

I'd be interested to know what one would be capable of doing following an integrated PS residency vs. ENT followed by facial plastics - my understanding is that in the integrated residencies, one really focuses on reconstructive surgeries, and minimal (ie < 3 months) of facial aesthetics. Wouldn't much of this be seen in a regular ENT residency?

Any insight?

 

[droliver]

The strengths of individual Plastic Surgery programs will vary signifigantly (as do the strengths of any given ENT, General Surgery, Orthopedics, etc... divisions). Most commonly if there is a "weaker" area of many programs it is the aesthetic experience. In the past, most people drawn to academic plastic surgery were attracted to reconstructive surgery with the aesthetic business mostly done in the community, away from the teaching hospitals (which in many places people with insurance or money for cosmetic surgery will not go to for sociological reasons). As the reimbursements for traditional academic-style practices dried up, there has been retooling of many programs with more emphasis on aesthetic procedures for financial sustainability.

Back to your original question......

The aesthetic surgery training you get can vary a lot during residency for the integrated PRS & ENT. Extensive experience with aesthetics is pretty rare for most ENT programs at the senior levels. You should have however, picked up enough anatomy & technique to make the transition pretty easily into facial aesthetics with further training. Plastic Surgery (vs. facial plastic surgery) fellowships will likely give you better fundamental training & provide more flexibility for your practice in the long run. I met a number of people interviewing for Plastic Surgery who had previously done Facial Plastic Surgery fellowships and that felt limited in what they were now qualified to do. Out of the pool of patients considering cosmetic surgery, there are only so many facial aesthetic patients in that group- the extra training that gives you better standing to perform breast, abdomen, and body sculpturing will really pay off. PRS-boarded ENT's will give you the same advice.

I would surmise that most integrated programs get signifigantly more then 3 months worth of exposure during their 5,6, or 7 years (depending on the program model). Components of many of these procedures are also frequently major parts of craniofacial surgery & head/neck reconstruction which you perform pretty steadily. Its not rare for us to tack some essentially cosmetic embellishments on traumatic midface & periorbital operations. Hell...we do blephs and rhytidectomies on VA patients when we can get away with it. You point re. the aesthetic training available is something you should really look at when you are considering an integrated or tradition Plastic Surgery position.

 

[maxheadroom]

In general, most PRS residents complain that they don't get enough aesthetic training during residency. Most residents tend to say that during residency, but most of the people whom I know who are recent graduates, felt that (in retrospect) their aesthetic training was more than adequate.

As Ollie said, the nature of PRS is that we find reasons to do the cosmetic portions of recon cases. Also, most of the cosmetic cases aren't extremely demanding cases. It's more of a question of being familiar with the anatomy and having enough volume to know the true tissue planes for Deep SMAS & other lifts.

If you want to do plastic surgery, apply to plastics programs. If you want to do ENT, then apply to ENT. My friend's father is a facial plastic surgeon (ENT) and hates having to tell the patient whom he did a facelift on that, "No, I can't do your liposuction. I'm not that kind of plastic surgeon." He says that it sucks to refer away patients when you've already operated on them. He's pretty pissed with himself for not doing PRS after ENT. He was scared off by the second year and the required hand/micro experience.

 

[epistaxis75]

I'm a 4th year med student now, and I've already applied to ENT. I did so because I really liked the rotation -- I thought all the surgeries were interesting, but I definitely liked the plastics and reconstruction cases best. This morning I got all freaked out, because now I'm thinking I should have done plastics.

I know it's not too late (almost too late, but not quite), but I wanted to ask what people thought my shot at getting in were. I got a 265 on Step 1, will be 8th in my class of 206 and AOA, but I don't have any research under my belt.

Would love to hear everyone's thoughts...

 

[droliver]

You should have no problem getting interviews with your raw #'s. Research or away rotations would help for the better programs.

Of note, I noticed that a girl who interviewed with us for general surgery matched into an integrated Plastics @ what I consider the top program in the country. I saw her grades & scores from her application & they were pretty average. I must assume that she rotated there & blew them away (no Monica jokes please ) for her to have matched there. Just goes to show....

If possible I'd try to line up some letters from a few of the heavy hitters in Plastics if you're able & would strongly encourage you to do an away rotation. As an aside, you're much more likely to get a fellowship position if you don't get an integrated spot via General Surgery then ENT if Plastics is your ultimate goal

 

[maxheadroom]

Ollie is right about the numbers. Great numbers will get you an interview. PRS, as a small field, is all about "fit". They want someone that they'll like working with. There's plenty of smart people out there who'll kill for a PRS position -- they want the one who will be trustworthy and fun.

 

[sixteenstones]

What are the chances for a DO with the following numbers

BS-2000
MS-2001

DO/MBA-2005 (4 yr program)
Class Rank 35/243
USMLE I 230
COMLEX I 629/93%
Leadership positions
Teaching Assistantships
Research
Psi Sigma Alpha - DO equivalent to AOA
Sigma Sigma Phi - DO honors service

Thanx

 

[maxheadroom]

Truth is (as has been written here many times), DOs don't have a very good chance with combined/integrated plastics programs. While a Step 1 of 230 is good, you'll need a whole lot more to even get interviews. Before the flames come, I don't make the rules, I just play the game.