interest in pathology = bad to adcomms/ rejection ??

[njbmd]

I've heard that adcomms don't like people that want to be a pathologist. Is this true? Why or why not? Discuss

This won't make much difference. If you have an interest in a specialty and are asked about that interest, answer the question honestly. Every interviewer knows that many medical students change their mind about a particular specialty many times over the course of medical school. Having an interest does not lock you into anything or rule you out of anything.

When I started medical school, I was sure that I would be a pediatrician (adolescent medicine). After I finished second year, I had a paid pathology fellowship and was headed for a career in transfusion medicine. That held until halfway through third year when I completed my surgical clerkship.

Now, I am a general surgeon headed for fellowship in vascular surgery. I had absolutely no idea of doing surgery when I entered medical school but I became hooked on my first case during third year. When asked by my medical school interviewers, I mentioned adolescent medicine. It had no effect one way or the other on my acceptance into medical school.

BTW: I am a huge Bengals fan even though I live in Redskins territory.

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[Gut Shot]

10% a year, while not a majority, seems to me to be a fairly signficant number.

It's also about the percentage of practicing physicians that pathologists, radiologists and anesthesiologists comprise.

I don't know how it is at your med school, but at mine our M3 year was comprised of seven core rotations that we could not alter. None of them were the popular lifestyle specialties. Hence, for anyone to enter those fields would require a decision within a very small timeframe, when we still had no clerkship experience in them but were finally granted some elective time.

And God forbid anyone change their mind after actually completing a clerkship. Jesus, that's what rotations are for: if you think you'll enjoy something and you get to test drive it. Don't like it? Fine, try something else. Hated all of M3 year? Well, now your only option is to gamble on something a little more off the beaten path than IM, OB, neurology, peds, surgery, psych and FP.

 

[Gut Shot]

This won't make much difference. If you have an interest in a specialty and are asked about that interest, answer the question honestly.

The take home message, folks.

P.S. My condolences for living among Redskins fans.

 

[yaah]

Your compatriot yaah, who said, "People who choose a field primarily for factors unrelated to the field (like lifestyle or perceived benefits) rarely are successful or enjoy it."

This is such a pointless argument. Yes, that's what I said. So? What is your point? Hyperanalyzing generalizations is never really an effective way to argue. Your argument is basically whether "rarely" equates to "never." If I had meant never I would have said never. If you want to argue that people who go into a field primarily because of lifestyle of peripheral benefits are equally satisfied and happy with their careers as those who go into it primarily because of a sincere like of the field, be my guest. Is lifestyle a nice side benefit of pathology? Yes.

My point: Don't choose a field primarily because of lifestyle or peripheral benefits. Maybe people do, whatever.

Here's the thing: There are a lot of unhappy physicians. Even "lifestyle fields" are hard work. Maybe the residency is not as bad, maybe it's bad in different ways. But one thing unhappy physicians have in common is that they don't something about their job very much. If you like it, working hard isn't so bad. Thus, a good way to increase your chance of becoming an unhappy physician is to pick the wrong career. The money is never going to make up for the drawbacks.

 

[Pianoboe01]

Your interviewers will definitely not think bad of you for stating an interest in pathology. I said it at one of my interviews, and I wasn't quite sure how they would respond, but they were enthusiastic and said something like "Great! we need all kinds in medicine."

 

[Tired]

You may be pardoned. Your perspective is that of a med student who still has choices to make and a limited number of days to graduation. When you slip on the long white coat and start actually doing what your career will involve (no matter what the field), things change. All of a sudden it's not just some 4 to 12 week audition with a shelf exam... it's your life. And if you don't like what you're doing, then God help you . . .

Great. Get back to us in about three years, after match and after intern and PGY-2 years, with some preliminary outcome analysis of your n = 7.

This would be more impressive if you weren't a Path R2, and I didn't know what constituted your "internship". Honestly, did you really think someone at your level would impress a guy who'll be a surgical intern in a month? And please keep inviting your Path buddies over with your tales of "woe & disrespect in the pre-allo forum" (I enjoyed that; making a thread to talk about another thread, wow!). Really, it's almost as intimidating as that time a Surgeon gave me a mean look during rounds.

And honestly, I'm don't even get why you're trying to dogpile on me (it tickles!), since essentially I'm telling people that (1) You were the smart dudes who chose to have a life and decent salary, instead of the rest of us suckers who will only see our kids once a week for the next decade, and (2) I've been talking up your field (until this post, obviously). I wouldn't want to do what you do, but I do respect the work.

My point is simply this: People who choose specialties primarily for lifestyle (Path, Rads, Derm) are frequently happy with their choice and very successful, even if the field wasn't necessarily their ideal job as a physician. Happens every year, in every class. Thinking about lifestyle is a good idea, and something every premed & med student should keep in mind. There's no rule that says a field has to set your soul alight; it's just a job.

Anyway, this has been fun, and I'll be sure to read your indignant replies. I'm especially looking forward to further discussion in path about the perception of Pathology as the waste bin for the socially-inept. Honestly, I had never heard that stereotype until you guys brought it up.

 

[Gut Shot]

This would be more impressive if you weren't a Path R2, and I didn't know what constituted your "internship". Honestly, did you really think someone at your level would impress a guy who'll be a surgical intern in a month?

Nope, not at all. What does this have to do with anything?

 

[pennybridge]

so did we figure out who's got the biggest cock or is it still up in the air?

 

[djmd]

Not really. My point (again) was that when 10% of my class drops out of one prospective specialty, and instead chooses fields they have never done clinical rotations in, that is indicative of the fact that "burning passion" may not be the only motivation that allows one to be successful. 10% a year, while not a majority, seems to me to be a fairly signficant number.

Irrelevent, since I specifically pointed out that they were originally interested in other fields, then switched following clincal rotations. And I never said they had no "knowledge of pathology".

Yet you continue to imply that they had no clinical rotation knowledge, suggesting that they can't be basing their choice off of an actual desire to work in that field, but rather some desire for an easier life.

And seeing as you continue to lump Gas, and Rads in with path (to get your magically significant 10%). I would think that you could be exposed to both multiple times during surgery and in fact you could also be exposed to pathology again via that setting.

Why don't you give the number of people who are going into Urology, Othro Surgery, Neuro Surgery, plastics, opthomology, Neurology (if it isnt a thrid year rotation)....
All of those are things that at best you get to spend part of surgical rotation on... they must be choosing that not out clinical interest. Alert the ethics committees.

But apparently one of the more defensive . . .

No,we are just used to being the definitive diagnosis, and so are used to having explain misconceptions spread by clinical guesses.

 

[Gut Shot]

so did we figure out who's got the biggest cock or is it still up in the air?

Not me (I own firearms).

 

[Gut Shot]

Yet you continue to imply that they had no clinical rotation knowledge, suggesting that they can't be basing their choice off of an actual desire to work in that field, but rather some desire for an easier life.

As a licensed armchair psychiatrist, Tired's position makes sense. If I were going to be a surgical intern in the near future, I would also be openly disdainful of the people who chose less demanding fields. Wouldn't you? I would also overemphasize the contribution of lifestyle to one's happiness, so I can blame any impending unhappiness on my lack of said lifestyle. Consider it the precursor of the "grass is always greener" phenomenon.

 

[Tired]

As a licensed armchair psychiatrist, Tired's position makes sense. If I were going to be a surgical intern in the near future, I would also be openly disdainful of the people who chose less demanding fields. Wouldn't you? I would also overemphasize the contribution of lifestyle to one's happiness, so I can blame any impending unhappiness on my lack of said lifestyle. Consider it the precursor of the "grass is always greener" phenomenon.

Alternatively, one might wonder why you and your group would protest so hard that you didn't pick Path (see, I capitalized it!) for lifestyle, that you really do love your work.

You're right, psychiatry is fun! I would have gone into it, but I doubt it could have held my interest too long. And without that interest, I never . . . whoops, I mean rarely . . . could have been successful.

 

[Tired]

so did we figure out who's got the biggest cock or is it still up in the air?

You're not enjoying this?

I have to say, this is the first time I've seen a med student, a couple residents, and an attending totally thread-hijack in pre-allo. Kind of a nice turnaround from the usual pattern; I'm glad I got to be a part of it.

 

[Acremonium]

You just can't wait to scream at people in the ORs, can you?

 

[Gut Shot]

that you really do love your work.

Hey man, nothing kicks off my day better than a cup of French Roast and eviscerating a dead 13 year old girl in the basement of the chidren's hospital. Usually in that order.

No one is arguing that lifestyle is a very nice perk of some specialties, or that it does contribute to happiness, or that it does provide an attractive selling point to medical students who are undecided, or that you can be content in a given field without a burning passion for it. The only issuance from the pathology contingent here is that if lifestyle is the sole consideration then unhappiness is a very likely outcome.

 

[IckeyShuffle]

This won't make much difference. If you have an interest in a specialty and are asked about that interest, answer the question honestly. Every interviewer knows that many medical students change their mind about a particular specialty many times over the course of medical school. Having an interest does not lock you into anything or rule you out of anything.

When I started medical school, I was sure that I would be a pediatrician (adolescent medicine). After I finished second year, I had a paid pathology fellowship and was headed for a career in transfusion medicine. That held until halfway through third year when I completed my surgical clerkship.

Now, I am a general surgeon headed for fellowship in vascular surgery. I had absolutely no idea of doing surgery when I entered medical school but I became hooked on my first case during third year. When asked by my medical school interviewers, I mentioned adolescent medicine. It had no effect one way or the other on my acceptance into medical school.

BTW: I am a huge Bengals fan even though I live in Redskins territory.[/

WHO DEY!

 

[djmd]

Alternatively, one might wonder why you and your group would protest so hard that you didn't pick Path (see, I capitalized it!) for lifestyle, that you really do love your work.

You're right, psychiatry is fun! I would have gone into it, but I doubt it could have held my interest too long. And without that interest, I never . . . whoops, I mean rarely . . . could have been successful.

We are not protesting nor being defensive we are trying to clear up a misconception. One which you seem to think is accurate, thus proving the need for our action.

Certainly there are examples of people who went into pathology for exclusively lifestyle reasons, and who made a good go of it. Some of them may even be successful practicing pathologists. However singular examples do not a definition make.

I could go on and on, by citing a small number of examples, about surgical interns who are complete horse's arse's and have sticks so far up said arse's anesthesiologists should remove them, their ignorance is only over shadowed by their myopic point of view.

But that would be ridiculous as there are countless surgeons who are reasonable human beings, and do not behave in such a manner. Many of them excellent colleagues.
That is the problem with using an isolated, selected sample.

 

[Gut Shot]

We are not protesting nor being defensive we are trying to clear up a misconception. One which you seem to think is accurate, thus proving the need for our action.

Look at the bright side, at least he's trainable:

And without that interest, I never . . . whoops, I mean rarely . . . could have been successful.