Interested in Psych, but is it worth all of Medschool?

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Polycherry

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I've just had my clerkships in psych (MS3) and find it absolutely fascinating. I'm more interested in the biological aspect of psychiatry. I would like to take it up in my residency but I'm worried that I'll lose out on most of the "solid" subjects of medschool. Makes it look like it'll be a waste to have gone through whole of medschool just to take up psych. I know I may be wrong, but do many ppl feel that way?
Is all of medicine/gynae/paeds etc of medschool actually required to do psych?

It's not like IM where there is so much "biology" that is actively needed for clinics. Does it all have to be left over to take up psych?
 
This is not the correct way of thinking about psychiatry. Psychiatry is a subspecialty medical field dealing, in this day and age, primarily with brain-based treatment for complex, co-morbid brain-based (but also socially causal) conditions. Most of the new and at times more lucrative treatments in psychiatry are ALL "biology" driven: injections, TMS, inhalers, infusions, etc. This trend will likely continue as this is the main driver of high profit margin healthcare in this country. On the whole the field is mainly driven by: 1) pharmaceutical/device industry. 2) NIMH/NIH biology focused research. 3) major academic departments which are very focused on neuroscience/biology. Systems design issues are still being funded/worked on, and are thought to be important. You can also think of community psychiatry as half neuroscience/pharmacology, half "practice management"/"quality improvement"/"integrated care management". Not saying this is "right", or "ethical", or the way "it should be". Just saying this is what it is.

I discourage people who are more interested in sociomedical sciences or strict psychology to go into psychiatry as the field has become at times "too biological". If you are more interested in that or public health, I'd suggest a residency in preventative medicine or occupational medicine, or even internal medicine/primary care.

A typical community psychiatry job (like if you work for a big hospital system) usually has very little "psychotherapy" work and you'd need to think more about the kidney and the liver and the heart and med interactions and pancreas and blood cells and yes the female reproductive cycle etc much more than some other subspecialty fields in medicine, like dermatology. Also, it used to be that psychiatrists do a lot more "social work", "care management", than a typical MD. However, the system is pushing generally a model where actual social workers do social work for efficiency related reasons.
 
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Consider a combined residency program (fm/psych , im/psych) so you won't feel like leaving the solid med school rotations behind and maybe will be sought after in consult and geriatric psychiatry. We all lose grip of skills that we don't use. Many of the folks here are fairly acquainted with medical comorbidities although they don't manage them actively.
 
Consider a combined residency program (fm/psych , im/psych) so you won't feel like leaving the solid med school rotations behind and maybe will be sought after in consult and geriatric psychiatry. We all lose grip of skills that we don't use. Many of the folks here are fairly acquainted with medical comorbidities although they don't manage them actively.

FM/psych folks don't seem to have an easier time getting consult/liaison jobs than people who ha e just done the fellowship.

Source: several mildly disgruntled senior FM/Psych residents.
 
It's worth it to me. I used to worry about losing my "general medical" skills, but that worry faded rapidly once you get deeper in residency and realize you are clearly still practicing medicine, it's just a more specialized area of medicine.
 
I would like to take it up in my residency but I'm worried that I'll lose out on most of the "solid" subjects of medschool.

Unless you're practicing maybe IM or FM, you won't be using most of the information you studied in med school.

Makes it look like it'll be a waste to have gone through whole of medschool just to take up psych. I know I may be wrong, but do many ppl feel that way?

You could say the same about most specialties and subspecialties.
 
FM/psych folks don't seem to have an easier time getting consult/liaison jobs than people who ha e just done the fellowship.

Source: several mildly disgruntled senior FM/Psych residents.
Interesting. Are you implying both the FM/Psych residents and fellows at your institution are having a hard time finding CL jobs?

Somewhat tangentially, it reminds me of something one of my mentors told me while I was in med school--it's easier to get a job in an IM department having not done residency than it is as a FM doc.*

*(This is a NE regional thing and was relating to non-clinical jobs that some doctors do.)
 
The real question: Is any other specialty worth med school? 😉

Give CL a look and ask yourself about the need to keep you medicine game tight.
 
Interesting. Are you implying both the FM/Psych residents and fellows at your institution are having a hard time finding CL jobs?

Somewhat tangentially, it reminds me of something one of my mentors told me while I was in med school--it's easier to get a job in an IM department having not done residency than it is as a FM doc.*

*(This is a NE regional thing and was relating to non-clinical jobs that some doctors do.)


Our C/L service is a great cannibal machine that devours anyone vaguely qualified. The senior FM/Psych residents I have spoken to are seriously considering doing the C/L fellowship in order to get these jobs at West coast academic centers.
 
FM/psych folks don't seem to have an easier time getting consult/liaison jobs than people who ha e just done the fellowship.

Source: several mildly disgruntled senior FM/Psych residents.
I dont see how combined FM/psych would make you any more desirable for a c/l gig. From my perspective it would make you less desirable because of your diluted training in psychiatry.

Also it is not necessary to have a fellowship in psychosomatics to do C/L except for very few academic medical centers. Compared to when I was applying for residency, there are many, many more inpatient (and in particular) outpatient c/l jobs. It has been an area of major growth in recent years as psychiatry has sought to integrate itself with the rest of medicine in the battle for relevance and survival, and data has accumulated to support the value that high-quality mental health care provides to patients in acute and primary medical care settings.
Our C/L service is a great cannibal machine that devours anyone vaguely qualified. The senior FM/Psych residents I have spoken to are seriously considering doing the C/L fellowship in order to get these jobs at West coast academic centers.
I can tell you having applied at interviewed for C/L positions at said west coast academic centers it is not necessary to have a PSM fellowship or PSM certification - only stanford (which pays terribly) specifically want it.
 
U would retain most of clinical medical school in family practice

Maybe more poor semantics on my part, but FM is not considered a specialty in my neck of the woods (more of a generalist) or insurance panels. PCP's are the only physicians that generally retain med school well imo.
 
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Our C/L service is a great cannibal machine that devours anyone vaguely qualified. The senior FM/Psych residents I have spoken to are seriously considering doing the C/L fellowship in order to get these jobs at West coast academic centers.
So they don't have trouble getting C/L jobs, they do have trouble getting C/L jobs at Stanford/UCLA?
 
UCLA does not have any c/l vacancies and unlikely to do so. UCSF has a CL/OB vacancy, and stanford has a vacancy (possibly filled? they want someone with PSM certification), UC Davis has a c/l position. cedars sinai has a transplant/cl position, UCSD has c/l positions at their new hospital in la jolla (no residents though), OHSU has a PES position w/ potential to work in quite a bit of C/L, UW has no vacancies currently and has never had any full time c/l positions.

I would imagine that FM/psych trained individuals would not be terribly desirable for inpt c/l positions since they usually want people who are well trained. They may be better positioned for primary care consultation, or reverse co-location gigs. The county system in the east bay is looking for PCC folks but would require working in multiple clinics. v. well paid though, much better than academics.

What's the rationale for hiring a separate attending +/- meaningless CL fellowship instead of making a faculty member who might be lagging behind in NIH funding (and thus needs to cover his or her salary) cover the service? It's not like these are revenue generating services for the department anyway, and anyone who has trained at a 1/2way decent enough psych residency and who knows how to read a textbook/use pubmed should be able to staff these services
 
What's the rationale for hiring a separate attending +/- meaningless CL fellowship instead of making a faculty member who might be lagging behind in NIH funding (and thus needs to cover his or her salary) cover the service? It's not like these are revenue generating services for the department anyway, and anyone who has trained at a 1/2way decent enough psych residency and who knows how to read a textbook/use pubmed should be able to staff these services

This is an odd bone to pick, especially given almost everywhere has a balance of researchers and clinician/educator types.
 
UCLA does not have any c/l vacancies and unlikely to do so. UCSF has a CL/OB vacancy, and stanford has a vacancy (possibly filled? they want someone with PSM certification), UC Davis has a c/l position. cedars sinai has a transplant/cl position, UCSD has c/l positions at their new hospital in la jolla (no residents though), OHSU has a PES position w/ potential to work in quite a bit of C/L, UW has no vacancies currently and has never had any full time c/l positions.

I would imagine that FM/psych trained individuals would not be terribly desirable for inpt c/l positions since they usually want people who are well trained. They may be better positioned for primary care consultation, or reverse co-location gigs. The county system in the east bay is looking for PCC folks but would require working in multiple clinics. v. well paid though, much better than academics.

Very useful post.

Apart from Stanford, do any of those c/l positions you mentionned require a CL fellowship?
 
This is an odd bone to pick, especially given almost everywhere has a balance of researchers and clinician/educator types.

Fine... include in the department's options to fill those slots clinical faculty (who are making far below their market value) and they could similarly run those services without issue. My point is that it doesn't require a new hire with nominally "extra" training
 
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