Interesting facts about med school in Finland

[BB-8]

I'm a med school student in Finland and I thought I'd share a few facts about med schools in Finland 🙂. I hope this isn't bad forum area for this thread.

1. Medical school is 100% free here. No tuition fees whatsoever. Goverment actually support our costs of living by 500euros/month (560$).

2. Admission into med school is based 90% on the admission test and 10% on your high school grades. We have no interviews or recommendation letters. It's all about how well you succes in the admission test which is based on Physics, Chemistry and Biology. About 15% of the applicants are accepted depending on the university.

3. Only few students buy books. Most the time we just read the PowerPoint presentations of lectures. For those minority who actually read books there's books available at the library. Don't get me wrong, the exams we have are difficult and we have physicians with wide knowledge.

4. Physicians make on average 80.000 euros per year before taxes (88.000$). Surgeons, specialists and chief physicians can make >100k/year.

5. In case of medical error the compensation for the patient or patient's family is negligible (maybe something like 1000 euros for accidentally amputated limb). We believe physicians try their best and any compensation can't undo the error. That's why physicians don't need expensive insurances.

6. Students are given big responsibility. We can work in a hospital alone as a physician "subsitute" prescribing drugs etc. after 4th year (it's 6 years to graduate).

Feel free to ask me anyhing!

edit: clarified a few things about admission test and currency. Added points 5 and 6.

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[bashwell]

I'm a med school student in Finland and I thought I'd share a few facts about med schools in Finland 🙂. I hope this isn't bad forum area for this thread.

1. Medical school is 100% free here. No tuition fees whatsoever. Goverment actually support our costs of living by 550$/month.

2. Admission into med school is based 90% on MCAT and 10% on your high school grades. We have no interviews or recommendation letters. It's all about how well you succes in the MCAT. Our MCAT is based on Physics, Chemistry and Biology. About 15% of the applicants are accepted depending on the university.

3. Only few students buy books. Most the time we just read the PowerPoint presentations of lectures. For those minority who actually read books there's books available at the library. Don't get me wrong, the exams we have are difficult and we have physicians with wide knowledge.

4. Physicians make on average 88.000$ per year before taxes. Surgeons, specialists and chief physicians can make >100k/year.

Feel free to ask me anyhing!

Just a couple of clarifying questions:

1) Why is admissions into Finnish med school "based 90% on MCAT"? Doesn't Finland have its own standardized exam(s) for admissions?

Or are you saying you're an American who went over to study in Finland and the Finnish med school accepts the MCAT for admissions?

2) Also, is the money you quote in US dollars or another currency (e.g. Euro)?

Anyway, very cool about free tuition and government support!

 

[BB-8]

Just a couple of clarifying questions:

1) Why is admissions into Finnish med school "based 90% on MCAT"? Doesn't Finland have its own standardized exam(s) for admissions?

Or are you saying you're an American who went over to study in Finland and the Finnish med school accepts the MCAT for admissions?

2) Also, is the money you quote in US dollars or another currency (e.g. Euro)?

Anyway, very cool about free tuition and government support!

Sorry for being inaccurate by referring to MCAT. What I meant was that Finland has its own admission test similar to MCAT 🙂

The currency is converted from euros to dollars. I should maybe clarify that too.

 

[mdmbamaybe]

I always wondered about the physician population that would go into medicine if there was such a drastic cut in reimbursements/salary. Do you think that your colleagues in medical school have different ambitions than American medical students?

 

[smokn]

How's the lifestyle/workload for a surgeon there? Or primary care for that matter?

 

[BB-8]

I always wondered about the physician population that would go into medicine if there was such a drastic cut in reimbursements/salary. Do you think that your colleagues in medical school have different ambitions than American medical students?

I hope I understood you correctly. The differencies in salary between medicine and surgery isn't maybe that big. Medical specialty is chosen primary based on what you're interested in.

How's the lifestyle/workload for a surgeon there? Or primary care for that matter?

A general practitioner works usually 38h/week unless she or he wants to work more. Surgeons likely make some more hours as they need to available in emergency situations (there's a specific word for this?) but I really don't know how many hours/week. I believe surgeons actually have a nice amount of spare time and holidays here (as opposed to USA).

 

[Entadus]

Thanks for sharing. In your country, how does physician salary compare to other careers with similar education level? (law, engineering, dentistry, etc)

 

[BB-8]

Thanks for sharing. In your country, how does physician salary compare to other careers with similar education level? (law, engineering, dentistry, etc)

Some comparison: Physicians >80.000 euros/year, engineers 50.000/year and lawyers 45.000-75.000/year. Dentistry is pretty much the same as physicians.

The best thing about being a physician/surgeon however is that there's practically no unemployment. The hospitals literally beg for the physicians (to apply for a job). Meanwhile engineers are getting fired..

 

[mdmbamaybe]

I hope I understood you correctly. The differencies in salary between medicine and surgery isn't maybe that big. Medical specialty is chosen primary based on what you're interested in.


A general practitioner works usually 38h/week unless she or he wants to work more. Surgeons likely make some more hours as they need to available in emergency situations (there's a specific word for this?) but I really don't know how many hours/week. I believe surgeons actually have a nice amount of spare time and holidays here (as opposed to USA).

I think my question was definitely unclear. Physicians in the US can expect a minimum salary of somewhere around 200k USD. If this were to drop to 80k, I think that the population who currently enter medicine would have different personalities than those entering in the future. So given that the salaries are so much lower in Finland, do you think the type of person who goes into medicine in Finland is different than the type of person who goes into medicine in the US?

 

[libraryismyhome]

Women in Finland are hotter than women in U.S. And these beautiful women chase doctors despite them making just 80k.

 

[Ophthoseidon]

I think my question was definitely unclear. Physicians in the US can expect a minimum salary of somewhere around 200k USD. If this were to drop to 80k, I think that the population who currently enter medicine would have different personalities than those entering in the future. So given that the salaries are so much lower in Finland, do you think the type of person who goes into medicine in Finland is different than the type of person who goes into medicine in the US?

I'm sure if we had no debt whatsoever and only worked ~40 hours/week US students would still find it an attractive field despite making 100k. Maybe the OP can clarify though

 

[BB-8]

I think my question was definitely unclear. Physicians in the US can expect a minimum salary of somewhere around 200k USD. If this were to drop to 80k, I think that the population who currently enter medicine would have different personalities than those entering in the future. So given that the salaries are so much lower in Finland, do you think the type of person who goes into medicine in Finland is different than the type of person who goes into medicine in the US?

Ordinary people are actually jealous about the physicians' 80k income in Finland. There's plenty of headlines saying "Take a look at the massive income of top physicians". So i guess it's all relative 😀 On our med school lunch breaks we often laugh at how much money we make So the answer to your question is that 80k is a lot of money in my country.. Have I already mentioned the income tax for 80k/year is about 50%..? So after taxes it's only 40k.. Too bad it's so difficult to get licensed for immigrants in USA. I would otherwise move there immediately to "carve" some money as we say here.

 

[ChrisMack390]

I'd be fine with making "only" 80-120K but not starting out a few 100K in the hole...

 

[PhillyMed777]

So after taxes you mentioned 40k?? What can you buy with 40k? You also mentioned a stipend during med school... Whats the cost of living like? Does this money take you far?

How much studying or other work do you do a week? How much research do you participate in?

Is it possible to enter any speciality just because you like it or do some specialities only take top students?

 

[addidas]

🤔

 

[OnePunchBiopsy]

Any big rivalries between your medical school and the ones in Sweden?

 

[PL198]

I'd be fine with making "only" 80-120K but not starting out a few 100K in the hole...

then you don't understand how basic amortization works.

 

[ChrisMack390]

No I just think people who use words like "amortization" should go work in finance and leave us alone.

 

[Entadus]

No I just think people who use words like "amortization" should go work in finance and leave us alone.

There's no reason why being a physician and being financially educated should be mutually exclusive.

EDIT: More money can mean a lot of things. More money can mean giving way more to charity, having the capability to help others and create opportunity for your family, community, etc. More money can mean having the financial freedom to stand for what you believe in (rely less on the suits that employ you and use you as a pawn to line their own pockets)

 

[ilovebrainz]

I hope this is satire

 

[graviton]

.

 

[clausewitz2]

It is worth bearing in mind that in the American context, an income of 80k means you are making more money than most people in your community ever will. I think many American medical students (who tend to have grown up in very rich families, even if they called themselves "middle class") lose sight of this. No one is going to have sympathy for someone else moaning about incomes that are an integer multiple of anything they will ever achieve

 

[PL198]

It is worth bearing in mind that in the American context, an income of 80k means you are making more money than most people in your community ever will. I think many American medical students (who tend to have grown up in very rich families, even if they called themselves "middle class") lose sight of this. No one is going to have sympathy for someone else moaning about incomes that are an integer multiple of anything they will ever achieve

why does that matter? does the average person do 14 years of post- HS training for their job?

 

[clausewitz2]

Do you think that fact about education changes anyone's attitude about that? Not really a point about whether it is deserved, more a point about how whinging about this amount of money goes down like a lead balloon among he majority of people who get by on less, thanks.

PPP wise, on average, 40K post tax euro in Finland is more or less equivalent to 40K post tax USD in the US. Adjust accordingly for your cities of choice, obviously.

 

[Señor S]

It is worth bearing in mind that in the American context, an income of 80k means you are making more money than most people in your community ever will. I think many American medical students (who tend to have grown up in very rich families, even if they called themselves "middle class") lose sight of this. No one is going to have sympathy for someone else moaning about incomes that are an integer multiple of anything they will ever achieve

But a typical Finn, I'm guessing, doesn't have to pay a premium to live in a safe neighborhood or to send his children to good schools. He probably doesn't have to save for college or healthcare. His lifestyle at 80k may be similar to an American making 160k. Higher salaries have to be taken in context of a country without a large social safety net and with many "affordable" areas being unliveable. I'd prefer if we were more like Finland but paying doctors less money is more an effect of that than a cause.

 

[torontopharm]

All of this ONLY applies to EU citizens right?
As a non-EU citizen or a non-EU degree holder like us North Americans, wouldn't it be impossible for us to work in Finland?

Those salary numbers actually don't sound that bad. I heard other EU countries (Poland), doctors are vastly underpaid.

 

[clausewitz2]

All of this ONLY applies to EU citizens right?
As a non-EU citizen or a non-EU degree holder like us North Americans, wouldn't it be impossible for us to work in Finland?

Those salary numbers actually don't sound that bad. I heard other EU countries (Poland), doctors are vastly underpaid.

Google search suggests two obstacles: 1) you can't get hired without a high degree of proficiency in Finnish 2) Finnish patients generally don't react well to foreign doctors. Singapore it is not.

 

[Stagg737]

@BB-8 , You say you get $560 U.S. dollars as a stipend for living expenses. Is it easy to live off of that, or are you barely scraping by? I don't think many people could survive off of that in the U.S.

How are doctors viewed in your country and how well do patients listen? Do patients follow a doctor's instructions well when they are being treated, or do they not follow their treatment plans very well? Also, are doctors always paid by the government or do some get paid directly by the patient or some kind of insurance company?

 

[Ophthoseidon]

@BB-8 , You say you get $560 U.S. dollars as a stipend for living expenses. Is it easy to live off of that, or are you barely scraping by? I don't think many people could survive off of that in the U.S.

How are doctors viewed in your country and how well do patients listen? Do patients follow a doctor's instructions well when they are being treated, or do they not follow their treatment plans very well? Also, are doctors always paid by the government or do some get paid directly by the patient or some kind of insurance company?

In any country other than the U.S. it seems like people care and are appreciative of the doctor's advice. People wait months for services and don't complain, and they don't feel entitled. They are grateful for whatever you can do for them. Hence why there aren't as many lawsuits and therefore not much, if any malpractice. It also seems like other countries don't see death as we do, where here in America we will spend as much of someone else's money as we can to live another 5 days. Just my opinion. I've never experienced it personally but that is what the overwhelming majority of people seem to say about foreign countries that I've talked to.

 

[W19]

Women in Finland are hotter than women in U.S. And these beautiful women chase doctors despite them making just 80k.

If you exclude the Hispanic population here, I guess you might have a point.

 

[BB-8]

But a typical Finn, I'm guessing, doesn't have to pay a premium to live in a safe neighborhood or to send his children to good schools. He probably doesn't have to save for college or healthcare. His lifestyle at 80k may be similar to an American making 160k. Higher salaries have to be taken in context of a country without a large social safety net and with many "affordable" areas being unliveable. I'd prefer if we were more like Finland but paying doctors less money is more an effect of that than a cause.

100% agree. A nice high class apartment/house suitable for a physician is maybe 300k (or 500k in the capital city). You can't buy a Porsche SUV because other people would be too jealous. So it's actually difficult to spend big sums of money.

@BB-8 , You say you get $560 U.S. dollars as a stipend for living expenses. Is it easy to live off of that, or are you barely scraping by? I don't think many people could survive off of that in the U.S.

How are doctors viewed in your country and how well do patients listen? Do patients follow a doctor's instructions well when they are being treated, or do they not follow their treatment plans very well? Also, are doctors always paid by the government or do some get paid directly by the patient or some kind of insurance company?

With $560/month you can survive living in a dorm and eating mac 'N' cheese.. Some people are fine with that, some choose to work as a grocery cashier and some have parents that give financial aid.

Those who have employer-sponsored health insurance use the private-sector and those who don't use doctors offered by government.

 

[DoctorDrewOutsidetheLines]

How difficult is it for an American to apply to study in Finland? I also heard Germany has free medical school too.

 

[Stagg737]

100% agree. A nice high class apartment/house suitable for a physician is maybe 300k (or 500k in the capital city). You can't buy a Porsche SUV because other people would be too jealous. So it's actually difficult to spend big sums of money.


With $560/month you can survive living in a dorm and eating mac 'N' cheese.. Some people are fine with that, some choose to work as a grocery cashier and some have parents that give financial aid.

Those who have employer-sponsored health insurance use the private-sector and those who don't use doctors offered by government.

I see, I thought that sounded very low for money. So there are private and public sectors for healthcare. Are there major differences in the quality of care? For example, does it take a lot longer to see a doctor employed by the government than one who works in the private sector? Do doctors get paid differently in government and private sectors?

 

[smarts1]

But a typical Finn, I'm guessing, doesn't have to pay a premium to live in a safe neighborhood or to send his children to good schools. He probably doesn't have to save for college or healthcare. His lifestyle at 80k may be similar to an American making 160k. Higher salaries have to be taken in context of a country without a large social safety net and with many "affordable" areas being unliveable. I'd prefer if we were more like Finland but paying doctors less money is more an effect of that than a cause.

But at the same time, isn't the price of other goods and services pretty high in Finland (food and clothes for example) compared to the U.S.?

 

[clausewitz2]

But at the same time, isn't the price of other goods and services pretty high in Finland (food and clothes for example) compared to the U.S.?

That is the point of comparing PPP (purchasing powe parity) adjusted figures instead of nominal salaries. It just so happens that for Finland specifically it works out to be a conversion factor of .99 for euros spent in Finland to dollars spent in the US. PPP should also take housing costs into account but obviously that is trickier than, say, a liter of milk.

 

[Omppu27]

Moi! Mind me asking where you go to school?

 

[deleted716403]

I'm a med school student in Finland and I thought I'd share a few facts about med schools in Finland 🙂. I hope this isn't bad forum area for this thread.

1. Medical school is 100% free here. No tuition fees whatsoever. Goverment actually support our costs of living by 500euros/month (560$).

2. Admission into med school is based 90% on the admission test and 10% on your high school grades. We have no interviews or recommendation letters. It's all about how well you succes in the admission test which is based on Physics, Chemistry and Biology. About 15% of the applicants are accepted depending on the university.

3. Only few students buy books. Most the time we just read the PowerPoint presentations of lectures. For those minority who actually read books there's books available at the library. Don't get me wrong, the exams we have are difficult and we have physicians with wide knowledge.

4. Physicians make on average 80.000 euros per year before taxes (88.000$). Surgeons, specialists and chief physicians can make >100k/year.

5. In case of medical error the compensation for the patient or patient's family is negligible (maybe something like 1000 euros for accidentally amputated limb). We believe physicians try their best and any compensation can't undo the error. That's why physicians don't need expensive insurances.

6. Students are given big responsibility. We can work in a hospital alone as a physician "subsitute" prescribing drugs etc. after 4th year (it's 6 years to graduate).

Feel free to ask me anyhing!

edit: clarified a few things about admission test and currency. Added points 5 and 6.

sounds like a dream honestly. If I spoke a Western European language, I'd move there in a heartbeat!

 

[Mjolner]

sounds like a dream honestly. If I spoke a Western European language, I'd move there in a heartbeat!

Too bad Finnish is unrelated to all Western European languages. :/

 

[Mad Jack]

Too bad Finnish is unrelated to all Western European languages. :/

And that Finnish is the 6th hardest language to learn on the entire ****ing planet.

 

[deleted716403]

I didn't say "Finnish" specifically because I don't like living in Finland relative to some other EU countries.

 

[Mjolner]

I didn't say "Finnish" specifically because I don't like living in Finland relative to some other EU countries.

Fair.

 

[Womb Raider]

BB, how are the Finnish women??

 

[xkulture]

Could you please guide how can an IMG (International medical graduate) get licensed as a medical practitioner/ general practitioner in Finland? A step by step guide (if possible) would be awesome.

 

[Wilf]

2. Admission into med school is based 90% on the admission test and 10% on your high school grades. We have no interviews or recommendation letters. It's all about how well you succes in the admission test which is based on Physics, Chemistry and Biology. About 15% of the applicants are accepted depending on the university.

I wish it was that way here (except with college grades not high school).

 

[TheFutureFatMan]

How is finland in terms of OB? Do you rely mainly on midwives for deliveries?

 

[Medicsinceday1]

I'm a med school student in Finland and I thought I'd share a few facts about med schools in Finland 🙂. I hope this isn't bad forum area for this thread.

1. Medical school is 100% free here. No tuition fees whatsoever. Goverment actually support our costs of living by 500euros/month (560$).

2. Admission into med school is based 90% on the admission test and 10% on your high school grades. We have no interviews or recommendation letters. It's all about how well you succes in the admission test which is based on Physics, Chemistry and Biology. About 15% of the applicants are accepted depending on the university.

3. Only few students buy books. Most the time we just read the PowerPoint presentations of lectures. For those minority who actually read books there's books available at the library. Don't get me wrong, the exams we have are difficult and we have physicians with wide knowledge.

4. Physicians make on average 80.000 euros per year before taxes (88.000$). Surgeons, specialists and chief physicians can make >100k/year.

5. In case of medical error the compensation for the patient or patient's family is negligible (maybe something like 1000 euros for accidentally amputated limb). We believe physicians try their best and any compensation can't undo the error. That's why physicians don't need expensive insurances.

6. Students are given big responsibility. We can work in a hospital alone as a physician "subsitute" prescribing drugs etc. after 4th year (it's 6 years to graduate).

Feel free to ask me anyhing!

edit: clarified a few things about admission test and currency. Added points 5 and 6.

Hello,

Im planning on applying to a medical school in finland. Ive lived all my life here but I have always been in a english speaking school. My Finnish is pretty good got a grade 8 in äidinkieli but I have a slight accent that most people dont even notice. Is its possible for me to survive in medical school after I pass the entrance exams. How is the course structure and exams that you do?

P.S. I am doing IB at this moment

 

[cubecancer]

I'm a med school student in Finland and I thought I'd share a few facts about med schools in Finland 🙂. I hope this isn't bad forum area for this thread.

1. Medical school is 100% free here. No tuition fees whatsoever. Goverment actually support our costs of living by 500euros/month (560$).

2. Admission into med school is based 90% on the admission test and 10% on your high school grades. We have no interviews or recommendation letters. It's all about how well you succes in the admission test which is based on Physics, Chemistry and Biology. About 15% of the applicants are accepted depending on the university.

3. Only few students buy books. Most the time we just read the PowerPoint presentations of lectures. For those minority who actually read books there's books available at the library. Don't get me wrong, the exams we have are difficult and we have physicians with wide knowledge.

4. Physicians make on average 80.000 euros per year before taxes (88.000$). Surgeons, specialists and chief physicians can make >100k/year.

5. In case of medical error the compensation for the patient or patient's family is negligible (maybe something like 1000 euros for accidentally amputated limb). We believe physicians try their best and any compensation can't undo the error. That's why physicians don't need expensive insurances.

6. Students are given big responsibility. We can work in a hospital alone as a physician "subsitute" prescribing drugs etc. after 4th year (it's 6 years to graduate).

Feel free to ask me anyhing!

edit: clarified a few things about admission test and currency. Added points 5 and 6.

Hello sir, I'm a student from india and I'm seeking to pursue my career in medicine and surgery from European institutes. I need some clarifications on the following points,
1. Medicine course is taught in English or Finnish?
2. Is is hard to get into a fine medical institution in Finland being a non-european candidate?
3. Do I have to learn Finnish or Swedish before immigrating to Finland?
4. Finnish medical diploma valued in non European countries as well?

 

[Giovanotto]

It is worth bearing in mind that in the American context, an income of 80k means you are making more money than most people in your community ever will. I think many American medical students (who tend to have grown up in very rich families, even if they called themselves "middle class") lose sight of this. No one is going to have sympathy for someone else moaning about incomes that are an integer multiple of anything they will ever achieve

I can't even with this.

 

[jdh71]

I don’t really care how they do it in Europe.

 

[Detective SnowBucket]

OP, what's the admission rate like overall? Out of 1000 high school applicants, how many will be accepted to med school?
.Whats the ratio of male:female med student/admittees/doctors like?
.Are you graded on a scale (1-5, A-F etc) or are classes pass/fail? Are you ranked within the class?
.My family lives in eastern europe and I talked with some med students last time I was there and I heard they have a problem in some countries where recent med school grads leave the country (after a free education) to go to another country in the EU with better pay, anything like that in Finland?
.Whats the fail rate for med students? Do most all of you graduate once you start med school?
.What are the most competitive specialties? It was funny to hear but in the country where my family lives, pediatrics is the most competitive, totally different from in the US.