Interesting OEC stuff from their website

[Geezer99]

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Sorry...I did come off as sort of bitter. I had a night to sleep and feel much better. I actually have been associating for a couple of years and had a really crappy week. I'll just forget your comment about "Nobody makes 110K" Don't even get me started. Just realize that basically every fresh dentist working as an associate to get their speed up, is probably making right around 100K/year. They may not be able to brag about it, but trust me...it's true.

Which brings me to my next question...how the hell do I sign up with OEC? If an ortho practice being run by a bitter a-hole grosses 2M/year (I'm assuming his overhead is about 50%...I did stay up late doing my research), and OEC takes 60% of your profit, then that still leaves 400K/year. Please, take away any autonomy that I have now (basically none) and give me 4 times what I make. Sure doesn't sound bad to me. Even if I sit around my unproductive office watching Roseanne reruns on the flatscreens, I will still make more than I make now.

My point: Don't look for sympathy that the profession will be ruined from anyone but your fellow 1M/year clubbers. You can make all the money you want, but don't blame somebody else for trying to take it away from you....welcome to Capitalism.

Uh oh...looks like I'm bitter again.

 

[Jediwendell]

I actually have been associating for a couple of years and had a really crappy week. I'll just forget your comment about "Nobody makes 110K" Don't even get me started.

Actually, my comment was aimed at those folks that always state they make 400K a year. A TON of people make 110 per year, you just never hear anyone say that they do. Particularly very vocal people like dort-ort and the high profile speakers at meetings. It is easy to get bitter in dentistry, and even more so in medicine. Keep your chin up. 👍

 

[Jone]

Better yet why don't you learn some ortho, keep all the easy cases, and refer the nasty ones to jerks like Dort Ort. =)

OK, this paragraph has made up my mind...as a GP, I will try my hardest to only refer to Imagine for the rest of my career.

 

[ItsGavinC]

Dort-ort,
Let's just keep things real for a minute. This is an Ortho residency, and whether you go OEC, or non-OEC you're still going to be an orthodontist. Life could be worse, I could be digging ditches for a living. What is sad is that you don't realize this. Comparing OEC vs Non-OEC is like comparing Porsche and Lambourgini's. First, the programs are 2 years. So the comittment is actually 7 years, not 9(Unless you only plan on doing some 6 month ortho course). Second, I'll probably make more coming out of school than you will, without the hassle of the senior orthodontist telling me how to practice. I even am willing to bet that I will probably make as much as you will the first seven years out, and I know that I will make more than you 15 years out, so there goes my retirement. Third, Lazzara is about more than money, he's about power and influence. There is no traditional ortho program in the country that could have taught me some of the lessons that I have learned here. Don't get me wrong, I really don't want to see corporate orthodontics succeed either. I don't believe it will. I just want to pass on a few lessons that I've learned when dealing with big business.

Solid post. Thanks for the insights, and keep posting your experiences for others to learn from. 👍

 

[Geezer99]

Actually, my comment was aimed at those folks that always state they make 400K a year. A TON of people make 110 per year, you just never hear anyone say that they do. Particularly very vocal people like dort-ort and the high profile speakers at meetings. It is easy to get bitter in dentistry, and even more so in medicine. Keep your chin up. 👍

Yeah...you know life is good when you're bitter because you only make 110K on a 4 day work week. Life could be worse.

 

[dort-ort]

OK, this paragraph has made up my mind...as a GP, I will try my hardest to only refer to Imagine for the rest of my career. NOBODY in the dental field should be making $1 million dollars from a single practice. If this estimate is correct (i really doubt it is), then you are the prime example of why OEC exists. Nobody is going to feel sorry for you that you might have some competition in town...even if half of your business goes down the toilet, then your still making 500k/year. Will OEC cause the cost of orthodontics to drop....yeah. Is this a bad thing?...if your financial boasts are correct, then hell no!!!

I think that Firm was correct with his post when he said that the orthodontists themselves caused the creation of OEC. If the optometrists had their say, they would probably be happy making 1M/year also. And I'm sure if a set of glasses cost 4-5 thousand dollars, they probably would.

Quit acting like your so much better than all other professionals and that your profession would be ruined if you are not allowed to make the salary you make. Face up and tell the truth already...your only beef with OEC is the economic threat they place on you.....what the hell do you care what some poor sap residents do that can't get into traditional residency programs.

Sorry that you are so angry geezer. That was not my intention. My intention is to get the word out about OEC. Firm himself is realizing how corporate influence can and will take advantage of unsuspecting dental graduates that are willing to sell their souls to OEC. And I commend him for speaking honestly.

Regarding the money issue -- I did not bring this up in the first place. You read Firm's post -- he was the one boasting how better he was going to do with OEC -- I did not ever in any of my post, present or past -- talk about who was going to make more money. But since he brought that up I let him know what little he knows. You seem bitter about this also -- who are you to tell anyone how much money he or she should make. Why don't you go yell at the atheletes, actors, CEO's, plastic surgeons, oral surgeons, endodontists, pedodontists also then. Once you are out in the real world -- it is all capitalism -- the way you market, how you conduct your practice, how business savy you are, and how nice you are to people will determine how well your practice does. You should try this. Then maybe you would not be so mad at others for being successful. And yes OEC will have their offices and no one is going to stop them from doing this -- money talks and they have money to do anything they want. And if they become my competition -- then yes, all well and good -- as I say, its capitalism and I can't stop that. I am confident about my business plan that I am not worried one bit and 5 OEC offices can open next to me I don't care.

My posts were only meant to bring light to others that they should think twice about what they are getting into once they decide to sign up for indenture servitude with OEC. If they know what they are signing up for then everything is good. thats all the reason for my posts.

However, if you want to bring in the subject that Orthodontists created this and is the reason for the start of OEC, this is far from it. Most orthodontists really don't care what happens to OEC -- the main reason is Lazarra, as Firm says, wants power and influence, thats why OEC started. And my bitterness is at how one person is trying to ruin the sanctity of profession and to take advantage of others in the process.

By the way, I am a very nice, humble but confident person and I don't think I am better than any other professional.

 

[dort-ort]

Sorry...I did come off as sort of bitter. I had a night to sleep and feel much better. I actually have been associating for a couple of years and had a really crappy week. I'll just forget your comment about "Nobody makes 110K" Don't even get me started. Just realize that basically every fresh dentist working as an associate to get their speed up, is probably making right around 100K/year. They may not be able to brag about it, but trust me...it's true.

Which brings me to my next question...how the hell do I sign up with OEC? If an ortho practice being run by a bitter a-hole grosses 2M/year (I'm assuming his overhead is about 50%...I did stay up late doing my research), and OEC takes 60% of your profit, then that still leaves 400K/year. Please, take away any autonomy that I have now (basically none) and give me 4 times what I make. Sure doesn't sound bad to me. Even if I sit around my unproductive office watching Roseanne reruns on the flatscreens, I will still make more than I make now.

My point: Don't look for sympathy that the profession will be ruined from anyone but your fellow 1M/year clubbers. You can make all the money you want, but don't blame somebody else for trying to take it away from you....welcome to Capitalism.

Uh oh...looks like I'm bitter again.

Geezer this sounds like envious animosity to me. My suggestion to you is to get off your behind, open your own office, take as many CE as possible, learn how to run a business, be nice to people and you will be successful. And you won't be as bitter about your situation and worry so much about how much others make. You may also want to try dentaltown -- there are many excellent threads there that will help you do this. Good luck with that.

By the way, many more successful GP's do much more than most orthodontists. Most GP's that refer to me are very successful in their own right. And if it makes you feel any better, I gross 1M not net.

Also, regarding your last comment, I am not looking for any sympathy, I welcome capitalism, am all about capitalism. Again my only beef is with how OEC is setting a bad precedent for professional schools and how they are taking advantaged of those who sign with them and am trying to get the word out so others know what they are getting into -- thats all. No harm in that.

 

[dort-ort]

Better yet why don't you learn some ortho, keep all the easy cases, and refer the nasty ones to jerks like Dort Ort. =)

Yes I can be a jerk but most of the time I am nice. As a specialist, I expect to only get the tough cases. And I do, it makes ortho fun and I like it that way. Thats the thing, I really try to recommend GP's to take CE and learn how to treat easy cases. It is a win - win in that situation, since they will be able to recognize more cases and actually refer more. But you know what -- most successful GP's in my area are so busy with cosmetic procedures, implants, endo, and so many other things that they don't have time or want to invest in the inventory to do ortho and make it profitable so they refer.

But yes I agree, GP's should learn the easy cases and do them -- or at least learn to recognize and diagnose and refer those cases that are out of their comfort zone.

 

[jpollei]

It'd be nice if everyone on SDN could deflect personal criticism the way Dort-ort has. Thanks for keeping this post civil and professional.