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Stu Jones, 37
Physicians assistant
Franklin, Tenn.
$109,000
http://www.parade.com/money/slideshows/salary-survey/salary-survey07.html
I think you mean "that damn apostrophe S!"That damn comma!
PA incomes typically reflect the specialty they're working in. That guy works in orthopedics and sports medicine, so I'd expect to see above-average incomes for their mid-levels.
I know PA schools usually take 1 year, but I was wondering, do you have to go to additional school to specialize in something? If so, how much more school? Or do you just work in one area and get accepted to certain ones, depending on which one you might want.
Also, for the average income salary, it says "physicians working atleast 32 hours a week." Obviously, if they're making working 60 hours a week, many of them really wont be making much. Anyways, I was wondering, how much a physician typically makes hourly.
I think you mean "that damn apostrophe S!"
I hate it. I was having some sutures removed at the walk-in clinic at Target, and was chatting with the PA there about me starting school soon. I pointed out how the glossy sign in the little waiting room said "physician's assistant," and she just said, "yeah, you get used to a lot of tiny little insults."
Here's one: dude should be able to afford some less dorky shirts for under his white coat. Heh heh.
I think you need to do some homework instead of posting. PA school is at least 2 years. Most physicians work on a salary and you had to know that the pay depends on the specialty.
Most physicians work on a salary
residencies for pa's are optional. many places will train a pa on the job to work in that particular specialty.many pa's end up working in a specialty they had prior training in. for example-Hahaha... yeah... it is two years... sorry for the typo. A salary would be a little confusing because a there are some PA's that work part time. Anyways, how many hours per week do they usually work. Anyways, I still dont know much about specializing in something and residency.
It also depends on how much you work (full v. part) as well. I have a friend who is finishing up her year here in Allegheny and then going to Chatham College to finish 2 years to get her M.A in Physician's Assistant specialty. From talking to her, she said that P.As make around ~70k (thats not including over time possibilities).
hhmmmm..so your mother makes more money than an MD anesthetist? That seems a bit fishy.
Avg. for cert. nurse anes is 140k, and thats twice the avg. for a regular np so I don't think you can compair PA to CRNA but you can to NP.
While reporting makes these reports somewhat sketchy...the average pay for a physician anesthesiologist is 265k, with highest reported being 392k.
Seems nurse anesthesiologists are overpaid!
From past dialogues with my parents and from friends who are actually in PA school, the general consensus is that the base salary of most PAs is around ~70k; of course the pay differs in what field you go into. Some PAs that work with PCPs earn lower than PAs that work with say, orthopedics or surgical groups. A third reason is also: time. You could have a PA that earns 70k as a base but if he/she overtimes, would make considerably more.
Regards,
Actually, those averages are from 2 different salary report firms. You might know someone that makes 500k, but that is way, way above the average. It certainly does depend on where you live, but not enough to change the md pay by 2x so the one you know of is in the top 99.9% of the field. Feel free to do a salary search, while they aren't perfect they are much more reliable than a sample of 1.
Oh, and I wasn't saying the MDs were underpaid, but that the crnas are OVERPAID and don't get me started on DNSc...
Actually, those averages are from 2 different salary report firms. You might know someone that makes 500k, but that is way, way above the average. It certainly does depend on where you live, but not enough to change the md pay by 2x so the one you know of is in the top 99.9% of the field. Feel free to do a salary search, while they aren't perfect they are much more reliable than a sample of 1.
Oh, and I wasn't saying the MDs were underpaid, but that the crnas are OVERPAID and don't get me started on DNSc...
Eh doesnt really matter. I'm going into podiatry knowing full well that we dont make as much as CRNAs, for me money isnt the factor, doing something that you know you will like and something that one is generally interested in; for me its the lower extremity.
In my opinion tho, I think anesthesiologists are OVER paid. They dont really do work; as they have CRNAs to do most of their job, lol. They get paid to 'oversee'.
Cheers!
Many DPM's now a days with that new PM&S-36 residency find themselves making more than CRNA's, however its mainly the time it takes to become a Podiatric Physician that is a lot different.
(4 yrs Podiatric Med school + 3 yrs surgical residency)
Thats 7 years of training compared to 2 years within a CRNA program. However, most CRNA programs do require you to have an RN and work at least 1 yr in an ICU. (preferably cardiac)
Eh doesnt really matter. I'm going into podiatry knowing full well that we dont make as much as CRNAs, for me money isnt the factor, doing something that you know you will like and something that one is generally interested in; for me its the lower extremity.
In my opinion tho, I think anesthesiologists are OVER paid. They dont really do work; as they have CRNAs to do most of their job, lol. They get paid to 'oversee'.
Cheers!
Well, SOMEONE on the anesthesiology team has to know whats going on!
Right...thats why the CRNA is there. I'm totally kidding. I just had to respond t a post that suggests the CRNA deosnt know whats going on.
Right on. See thats the kind of thinking that annoys me about some medical students and residents or attending physicians that think they are in a level higher or 'superior' to the attending nursing staff, the physician assistant staff and or other respectable allied health professionals.
These people are doing what they are doing because they are HIGHLY trained and affluent individuals who took EXTENSIVE amount of schooling and experience/expertise on the parcticular aspect of medicine. Just because a person is a licensed and practicing anesthesiologist does not make him higher than a Registered Nurse Anesthetist who has had over 20+ years experience in the ICU/CCU/TraumaUnit/PACU/ER/OR. Medicine, is like environmental biology in a way that the system is very symbiotic. You cannot have a functioning medical system without the proper synthesis of physicians, nurses, physician assistants, physical therapists etc working together as a team.
And coming from a highly medical family and having parents as nurses, uncles who are physicians/surgeons and cousins who are medical students I know that such 'derogatory' talking of medical individuals (nurse anesthetist, RNs, CRNP, PAs) is not only unprofessional but extremly crass in nature.
Respect. That is the key to everything. Don't expect to recieve it if you dont give it in return.
Best.
Actually, and this is not mean spirited in any way, it does. MD is a more advanced "higher" degree than a masters level trained person. All the experience in the world does not make someone have a different job. I am not saying this to be mean or derogatory. I have my BSN, besides nursing also worked as a CNA and medical assistant. It is the same with CNA's. No amount of years at work puts you on the same level professionally as the nurse. This has nothing to do with you as a person, it has to do with education, degree, and professional responsibility.
Now, you are right in the sense that it is a team, but even teams have different players with differing responsibilities and skills to the team. Not everyone can be the quarterback or the forward on ice. Just like not everyone can be the nurse, or the doctor, or the PT, etc....
Right on. See thats the kind of thinking that annoys me about some medical students and residents or attending physicians that think they are in a level higher or 'superior' to the attending nursing staff, the physician assistant staff and or other respectable allied health professionals.
These people are doing what they are doing because they are HIGHLY trained and affluent individuals who took EXTENSIVE amount of schooling and experience/expertise on the parcticular aspect of medicine. Just because a person is a licensed and practicing anesthesiologist does not make him higher than a Registered Nurse Anesthetist who has had over 20+ years experience in the ICU/CCU/TraumaUnit/PACU/ER/OR. Medicine, is like environmental biology in a way that the system is very symbiotic. You cannot have a functioning medical system without the proper synthesis of physicians, nurses, physician assistants, physical therapists etc working together as a team.
And coming from a highly medical family and having parents as nurses, uncles who are physicians/surgeons and cousins who are medical students I know that such 'derogatory' talking of medical individuals (nurse anesthetist, RNs, CRNP, PAs) is not only unprofessional but extremly crass in nature.
Respect. That is the key to everything. Don't expect to recieve it if you dont give it in return.
Best.
hhmmmm..so your mother makes more money than an MD anesthetist? That seems a bit fishy.
kinetic said:2) I'm delighted to discover that PAs and nurses make more than physicians and work fewer hours. See, PAs and nurses love to use that as an "in your face" because they resent the fact that physicians know more and get more respect. Don't get me wrong, this is a common defense mechanism. Physicians use this, as well -- ER physicians, when confronted with their ineptitude, do the same thing, as do anesthesiologists, who do their job very well but refuse to acknowledge that it's just not that difficult a job.
But since I now know that PAs make more than even some physicians, I feel fine with treating them like crap, just like other physicians that I know. For example, PAs complain about work hours that residents would laugh at -- they have eight hour days and get belligerent when they have to stay an extra hour WITH OVERTIME. Residents do that routinely without extra pay. Therefore, many attendings I know will treat residents better -- not because "they're one of us" but simply because a PA is being paid and paid well to do what they do. They're not allowed to complain and they know it. If we need them to do work that residents don't want to do, that's fine too -- that's their job.
As for nurses, you can't make them do stuff like that, mainly because they'd probably end up killing a patient. But it does make me even more contemptuous of them. I mean, if you make $550,000, you'd think their level of medical knowledge would be higher. But rather than them being more competent or working harder, it probably just means that their union strikes frequently. This is why I'm all for physicians unionizing and striking frequently, regardless of the impact on patient care. Nurses have no concern for patient care, but they hypocritically act like uber-patient advocates when physicians propose striking, like, "you would let your patient suffer like that?" Then they go back to reading a magazine and talking about when the next union meetng is. (That's no exaggeration -- there are at least a handful of times that I recall nurses spending inordinate amounts of time talking about union meetings and salaries which caused them to miss lab draws or be late with medications.)
The bottom line is that physicians need to act like medicine is strictly a business, just like nurses and PAs. Physicians are the only ones who are expected to do their job out of altruism. If patients cannot pay for health care, they should not receive it. And if anyone is shocked by that, then they need to make nurses and PAs abide by the same code of altruism and work eighty-or-more hours a week, but good luck with that.
Right on. See thats the kind of thinking that annoys me about some medical students and residents or attending physicians that think they are in a level higher or 'superior' to the attending nursing staff, the physician assistant staff and or other respectable allied health professionals.
Well, yes, in some ways it does. Given equal years in practice, an MD has had rigorous training in the form of a residency, which consists not only of anesthesia but a variety of other rotations that give insight into how the other specialties tick.These people are doing what they are doing because they are HIGHLY trained and affluent individuals who took EXTENSIVE amount of schooling and experience/expertise on the parcticular aspect of medicine. Just because a person is a licensed and practicing anesthesiologist does not make him higher than a Registered Nurse Anesthetist who has had over 20+ years experience in the ICU/CCU/TraumaUnit/PACU/ER/OR. Medicine, is like environmental biology in a way that the system is very symbiotic. You cannot have a functioning medical system without the proper synthesis of physicians, nurses, physician assistants, physical therapists etc working together as a team.
did you consider that maybe your family members are just rude? In the beginning of your post you made sure to clarify "some" so as not to generalize, but now it looks like you're basing your opinions on your family members.And coming from a highly medical family and having parents as nurses, uncles who are physicians/surgeons and cousins who are medical students I know that such 'derogatory' talking of medical individuals (nurse anesthetist, RNs, CRNP, PAs) is not only unprofessional but extremly crass in nature.
Respect. That is the key to everything. Don't expect to recieve it if you dont give it in return.
Eh doesnt really matter. I'm going into podiatry knowing full well that we dont make as much as CRNAs, for me money isnt the factor, doing something that you know you will like and something that one is generally interested in; for me its the lower extremity.
In my opinion tho, I think anesthesiologists are OVER paid. They dont really do work; as they have CRNAs to do most of their job, lol. They get paid to 'oversee'.
Cheers!
Ummm... my dad is also a CRNA in a small town at a small hospital in IL. He makes on average $250k. Some years are better, some worse. He eats what he kills so to speak.
My dad has a partner but it's only the two of them covering the hospital. They do about 5-6 procedures a day each with 2 ORs at this hospital. He also has 50:50 call and gets paid more when called in for emergencies, too.
He would make less if there was more coverage, but his call would be a lot lighter, too.
I know of several other rural CRNAs that make similar $$.
Right on. See thats the kind of thinking that annoys me about some medical students and residents or attending physicians that think they are in a level higher or 'superior' to the attending nursing staff, the physician assistant staff and or other respectable allied health professionals.
These people are doing what they are doing because they are HIGHLY trained and affluent individuals who took EXTENSIVE amount of schooling and experience/expertise on the parcticular aspect of medicine. Just because a person is a licensed and practicing anesthesiologist does not make him higher than a Registered Nurse Anesthetist who has had over 20+ years experience in the ICU/CCU/TraumaUnit/PACU/ER/OR.
I think you mean "that damn apostrophe S!"
I hate it. I was having some sutures removed at the walk-in clinic at Target, and was chatting with the PA there about me starting school soon. I pointed out how the glossy sign in the little waiting room said "physician's assistant," and she just said, "yeah, you get used to a lot of tiny little insults."
Again, pardon the ignorance. Is Physician's Assistant offensive? Is it because it implies ownership or something like that? Please let me know of any other common 'insults' to avoid. I've never been educated on this and want to be professional when working with PAs.
yup- the title of the profession is physician assistant.
"bob is a physician assistant" not "bob is a physician's assistant".
see the difference?
it would be like calling a nurse a nurse's aide.
Sorry, I don't get it.
"Physician Assistant" = "Assists a physician"
"Physician's Assistant" = "Assists a physician"
Of course, one is correct and one isn't, but there's absolutely no difference in meaning.
Now, try to explain "Physician Associate."
Sorry, I don't get it.
"Physician Assistant" = "Assists a physician"
"Physician's Assistant" = "Assists a physician"
Of course, one is correct and one isn't, but there's absolutely no difference in meaning.
Now, try to explain "Physician Associate."
I personally like the title that the UK originally proposed (medical care practitioner). Tells it like it is, describes the profession.
yup- the title of the profession is physician assistant.
"bob is a physician assistant" not "bob is a physician's assistant".
see the difference?
it would be like calling a nurse a nurse's aide.
That said I agree with the part about the 's, though for the very hot PA I know I really really wish it was a 's.
's=possessive which is very insulting. might as well say doctor's little helper.
"Whose assistant are you? The physician's."
uh, no
I don't belong to them.
I work with them. I can work without them present. in fact I can work without ever seeing them at all. we have to have a relationship that offers minimal oversight via chart review or other means(in my state this relationship is refered to as "sponsorship" ).
I never "assist" as I don't work in the o.r.
it's the current name of our profession and one of the problems with the profession.
physician associte works much better but as david said only 3 programs that I know of give this title(his two and stanford) and only 1 state uses the title frequently(ct).
why is this such a difficult concept for people?
's=possessive which is very insulting. might as well say doctor's little helper.
it's the difference between a medical assistant and a clinician with a graduate degree and in most cases 8- 10 yrs of post high school education when you consider prior medical training+ bs+pa school.
Well a nurse's assistant doesn't belong to a nurse either, and it is still that way. Also, I don't get why PA's always include their prior medical training, or degrees on top of those required as part of their education. I see this a lot. I went to graduate school before starting med school this fall, I also worked as an RN, CNA and medical assistant. I don't get to add those all on and claim more "medical education" than my classmates.
Another thing I don't get, and don't get me wrong I have a lot of respect for PA's, a few of my friends are PA's. BUT some of them claim they don't want to go to medical school, they don't want the job of the doctor, the want simplies case loads and a life, etc....once they get there they get kind of pissed, and start claiming they can do the job of the doctor, and don't need any supervision, and should be a physician equal, want more "rights". HELLO you are going against the main reason you went into the field. You knew you were an assistant. You are assisting physician's workload with more benign cases.
Another thing I don't get, as someone pointed out how PA's and NPs get to go home each day, brag about how much they make etc....Physicians are not allowed to do that, yet for some strange reason it is always a nonMD/DO who get pissed about physician salary, or flip out how docs dont care about patients as much as they do when the doc doesnt have a huge smile on his/her face after not going home for a few days.
Let's face it: A PA is a different career than a physician, but I really don't know how a PA can claim they don't want the job of a physician when what they do is so similar.
I believe the reason a person would go to PA school is simply a matter of time (2 yrs v. 4 yrs + residency). I think if a student said to me that they didn't want to be a physician or the job of a doctor, but a PA instead, I might have some questions about what they new of the PA profession.
I also think it would be natural for a PA to want more autonomy as they developed their skills and is usually delegated once the supervising physician feels comfortable with the PA. At least that's my understanding.
I also think it's fairly natural and common in any profession to lobby and develop support for higher salaries. I think PA's make a comfortable living (you describe it as bragging), but also may be able to make the case that they are worth more than they are paid from the business perspective of healthcare.
I would really question the merit and motive of the short-sighted post quoted above.