Internal locums rates

[aneftp]

That doesn't make sense. How can you base the rate on 2067 hrs and say you should only be working 1680 hrs?

Seriously people here have MEDICAL degrees.

Can’t figure out w2 hourly wages
Can’t figure out s corp taxes.

It’s simple reading people.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[crash2500]

Seriously people here have MEDICAL degrees.

Can’t figure out w2 hourly wages
Can’t figure out s corp taxes.

It’s simple reading people.

700k ten weeks off and 40 hours is not the market W2 rate. That may be the market rate for locums or maybe W2 for places > 1 hour from any make Metro greater than 750k people.

 

[crash2500]

700k ten weeks off and 40 hours is not the market W2 rate. That may be the market rate for locums or maybe W2 for places > 1 hour from any make Metro greater than 750k people.

That's not to say there aren't W2 jobs that offer this in major metros, just that this isn't "market rate."

 

[aneftp]

700k ten weeks off and 40 hours is not the market W2 rate. That may be the market rate for locums or maybe W2 for places > 1 hour from any make Metro greater than 750k people.

Market rate for locums docs is close to 1 million now. Plus agency fees. Which means it’s costing hospitals another 300k in fees. A locums docs cost a hospital around 1.1-1.3 million. 10 weeks off for locums docs. That’s doing basic work.

We ain’t talking small towns. Major metro areas 5 million plus people. I barely worked last month as 1099 and still generated 80k with 3 full (4 day weekends) and only worked 12 days. This month I’m ramping up for 130k. Next month will between 130-170k depends on my mood and how I’m feeling. I need to do some illegal drugs to hit 250k for the month. Lol. Jk I don’t drink alcohol, use drugs. 250k I will be killing myself.

The market is evolving until employers understand what is going on how to pay their w2 crnas and docs.

What I’m saying now will change in 6 months. It’s evolving. The smart employers will find creative ways to attract talent. The smart solution is to give w2 docs massive paid time off. I keep saying the same thing over and over again.

To fix the crna problem is to throw new grads big 100k/2 year sign on bonus. New grads need and want the immediate cash infusion. Plus a base 250k salary. That’s still far cheaper than crna locums at 500k a year.

 

[aneftp]

That's not to say there aren't W2 jobs that offer this in major metros, just that this isn't "market rate."

If a facility has multiple openings and if their openings are longer than 9 months they are at least 20% below market rate. There is only so much internal locums w2 $250/hr regular staff are willing to work for extra money to make up for short staffing

I know full time docs in upstate New York working for Napa making 700k plus w2 (with overtime included) who quickly realize wait a second. We are working. Over 60 hours a week for 700k w2 with the extra work. Why know just do locums and make 1 million for less hours

Agree or disagree?

 

[crash2500]

Market rate for locums docs is close to 1 million now. Plus agency fees. Which means it’s costing hospitals another 300k in fees. A locums docs cost a hospital around 1.1-1.3 million. 10 weeks off for locums docs. That’s doing basic work.

We ain’t talking small towns. Major metro areas 5 million plus people. I barely worked last month as 1099 and still generated 80k with 3 full (4 day weekends) and only worked 12 days. This month I’m ramping up for 130k. Next month will between 130-170k depends on my mood and how I’m feeling. I need to do some illegal drugs to hit 250k for the month. Lol. Jk I don’t drink alcohol, use drugs. 250k I will be killing myself.

The market is evolving until employers understand what is going on how to pay their w2 crnas and docs.

What I’m saying now will change in 6 months. It’s evolving. The smart employers will find creative ways to attract talent. The smart solution is to give w2 docs massive paid time off. I keep saying the same thing over and over again.

To fix the crna problem is to throw new grads big 100k/2 year sign on bonus. New grads need and want the immediate cash infusion. Plus a base 250k salary. That’s still far cheaper than crna locums at 500k a year.

What do you consider market locums rate for generalist?

 

[MirrorTodd]

$400+/hr sure as **** ain't the market rate in San Antonio.

 

[aneftp]

What do you consider market locums rate for generalist?

Let me explain to you folks one more time. It’s the just about the same.

I really don’t understand how naive people are on these boards

It’s Ike everyone is clueless.

It’s the number of hours you can bill. A cardiac makes maybe $25-50/ more per hour. And that makes zero difference in the overall scheme of things because there aren’t many cardiac cases going on after hours.

So you get suckered into taking cardiac call which is even worst than just flat billing them doing regular cases.

See the big picture.

 

[ambiturner]

That doesn't make sense. How can you base the rate on 2067 hrs and say you should only be working 1680 hrs?

Only way this makes sense to me is if you count your vacation as paid vacation (PTO), which in an employed model is something you should be receiving. Thus the 10 weeks of vacation are paid at the usual rate.

 

[crash2500]

Let me explain to you folks one more time. It’s the just about the same.

I really don’t understand how naive people are on these boards

It’s Ike everyone is clueless.

It’s the number of hours you can bill. A cardiac makes maybe $25-50/ more per hour. And that makes zero difference in the overall scheme of things because there aren’t many cardiac cases going on after hours.

So you get suckered into taking cardiac call which is even worst than just flat billing them doing regular cases.

See the big picture.

Your posts don't even make sense.

 

[aneftp]

Your posts don't even make sense.

Cardiac doc works 7-3p @$450/hr
Asked to to take cardiac beeper for $500 for the night with $500/hr call back

General doc works 7-3 at $400/hr goes to second job 4p-7am making $450/hr for calls

Who do you think is getting the better deal?

The value of a cardiac doc is in the 7-3pm slot
The cardiac beeper slot is not a valued slot for locums cardiac slots. They were better off going off to hospital B for 4p-7am call at $450/hr that doesn’t need cardiac coverage.

 

[crash2500]

Cardiac doc works 7-3p @$450/hr
Asked to to take cardiac beeper for $500 for the night with $500/hr call back

General doc works 7-3 at $400/hr goes to second job 4p-7am making $450/hr for calls

Who do you think is getting the better deal?

The value of a cardiac doc is in the 7-3pm slot
The cardiac beeper slot is not a valued slot for locums cardiac slots. They were better off going off to hospital B for 4p-7am call at $450/hr that doesn’t need cardiac coverage.

Ok.... None of this is relevant to the initial claim of what W2 or locums market rate is.

 

[PainInTheAnes]

If a facility has multiple openings and if their openings are longer than 9 months they are at least 20% below market rate. There is only so much internal locums w2 $250/hr regular staff are willing to work for extra money to make up for short staffing

I know full time docs in upstate New York working for Napa making 700k plus w2 (with overtime included) who quickly realize wait a second. We are working. Over 60 hours a week for 700k w2 with the extra work. Why know just do locums and make 1 million for less hours

Agree or disagree?

Yes, this is true of every private practice partnership too, which always seem to need people for their tracks and always seem to be on the cusp of “fully staffed,” but never quite there. They may make a lot on paper but their flexibility and actual hours are terrible. And they can’t take more than 7-9 weeks off under any circumstances or poof goes the partnership.

The internal locums bit is more like a worthless token given to employees who are unable to say no. I’ve worked overtime at a couple w2 jobs, and it’s a bit like “moonlighting” as a resident: someone will be forced to cover the shifts or late cases. Sure your pay goes up technically, but it’s not even close to worth it to be forced into those hours when you aren’t expecting or given a choice in the matter.

 

[aneftp]

Ok.... None of this is relevant to the initial claim of what W2 or locums market rate is.

now you don’t make any sense. I’m merely responding to your comments about it not making any sense about cardiac docs not making more much than general anesthesia docs. "your post don't even make any sense"

Or do you want me to comment again on what the true w2 market rate is (to retain docs) or else docs will quit and do their own thing (locums).

The w2 market rate is around 700k/10 weeks off (anyway you look at it) whether it's 600K w2 plus 10 weeks plus 100K in "benefits" retirement or 700k w2, zero benefits

vs 700K 1099 locums with zero benefits. Once those two reach equilibrium, you will see the market stabilize.

If you see job openings for more than 9 months, that place has a problem. The problem is it's not at market rate, especially in the bigger cities. We are seeing employers barely move the needle with the base w2 around 500K and trying to bump up the sign on bonus, first it was 75K for 3 years, than 100k/3 years, now 150K sign on for 3 years (this is all within a 2 year period i'm seeing). Employers are chasing the market which is not a good thing. These jobs have been open for way more than 9 months. Why? Because employers are not at market rate.

That market rate is a moving target these days. Thus why the locums jump, especially docs with no kids or kids in college.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

now you don’t make any sense. I’m merely responding to your comments about it not making any sense about cardiac docs not making more much than general anesthesia docs. "your post don't even make any sense"

Or do you want me to comment again on what the true w2 market rate is (to retain docs) or else docs will quit and do their own thing (locums).

The w2 market rate is around 700k/10 weeks off (anyway you look at it) whether it's 600K w2 plus 10 weeks plus 100K in "benefits" retirement or 700k w2, zero benefits

vs 700K 1099 locums with zero benefits. Once those two reach equilibrium, you will see the market stabilize.

If you see job openings for more than 9 months, that place has a problem. The problem is it's not at market rate, especially in the bigger cities. We are seeing employers barely move the needle with the base w2 around 500K and trying to bump up the sign on bonus, first it was 75K for 3 years, than 100k/3 years, now 150K sign on for 3 years (this is all within a 2 year period i'm seeing). Employers are chasing the market which is not a good thing. These jobs have been open for way more than 9 months. Why? Because employers are not at market rate.

That market rate is a moving target these days. Thus why the locums jump, especially docs with no kids or kids in college.

Can you explain it again?

 

[aneftp]

Can you explain it again?

I was merely responding originally to comments what the market rate if you want to retain W2 employee docs if you have job openings for months or even years out.

And we have disagreements what exactly the market rate is.

People are saying 700k w2 (or equivalent with benefits) /10 weeks off is not market rate for roughly 40 hours ish of work, maybe 45 hrs.

Until we reach this equilibrium of 1099 docs vs w2 docs work hours/pay/benefit, the market will continue to shift.

Hospitals simply are in denial what market rate is these days. The smarter ones will cave in like a certain hospital in GA that took everyone in house from an AMC (that they sold out to in 2019). They tried to low ball the original 14 docs at 525k/9 weeks off with original offer . The original practice was getting pay 550k/15 weeks in early 2023 (their post buyout income)

They finally settled on w2 650k/10 weeks off plus generous hospital matching (3 year vesting at 28k a year) and healthcare. Based on 45 hrs of work per week and $350/hr w2 overtime. None of the original 14 partners left. That is market rate for late 2023.

Hospitals and AMC are chasing and chasing to find something to stick.

 

[SRYSPAC]

Wouldn't you say what is actually being offered is the actual market rate, which differs depending on city/state/income tax status, and your "market rate" is what SHOULD be offered?

I agree with you that whatever combination of $700K/PTO/benefits is what we're worth, and people should try to negotiate to get there, but I don't think you can reasonably say that is the market rate, because that is simply not what most jobs are paying.

 

[finalpsychyear]

I was merely responding originally to comments what the market rate if you want to retain W2 employee docs if you have job openings for months or even years out.

And we have disagreements what exactly the market rate is.

People are saying 700k w2 (or equivalent with benefits) /10 weeks off is not market rate for roughly 40 hours ish of work, maybe 45 hrs.

Until we reach this equilibrium of 1099 docs vs w2 docs work hours/pay/benefit, the market will continue to shift.

Hospitals simply are in denial what market rate is these days. The smarter ones will cave in like a certain hospital in GA that took everyone in house from an AMC (that they sold out to in 2019). They tried to low ball the original 14 docs at 525k/9 weeks off with original offer . The original practice was getting pay 550k/15 weeks in early 2023 (their post buyout income)

They finally settled on w2 650k/10 weeks off plus generous hospital matching (3 year vesting at 28k a year) and healthcare. Based on 45 hrs of work per week and $350/hr w2 overtime. None of the original 14 partners left. That is market rate for late 2023.

Hospitals and AMC are chasing and chasing to find something to stick.

So my friend at academic center getting close to 530 assuming gets all bonuses in year (460 base) and 25k sign on bonus would push them to 550 range for year 1 with 6 wks pto, 6k cme, and generous 50k matching roughly takes the package to 600. Essentially they are getting screwed out of 100k?

 

[Shimmy8]

Location location location

 

[aneftp]

So my friend at academic center getting close to 530 assuming gets all bonuses in year (460 base) and 25k sign on bonus would push them to 550 range for year 1 with 6 wks pto, 6k cme, and generous 50k matching roughly takes the package to 600. Essentially they are getting screwed out of 100k?

State academics has 9-10 weeks off when you include sick leave. Plus many offer 10-12 weeks paid paternity leave.

You gotta know how to play the academics game.

That’s why many women will use state academics to get a 12 week paid leave (on top of the refuse pto and sick leave) is worth $120k benefit.

So if ur friend is a woman expecting a child. That would push them over 700k easily.

 

[finalpsychyear]

State academics has 9-10 weeks off when you include sick leave. Plus many offer 10-12 weeks paid paternity leave.

You gotta know how to play the academics game.

That’s why many women will use state academics to get a 12 week paid leave (on top of the refuse pto and sick leave) is worth $120k benefit.

So if ur friend is a woman expecting a child. That would push them over 700k easily.

You really do know your stuff. Friend looked into it and they accrue about 120 hrs in a year of sick leave or 3 weeks but not sure if it carries over? In addition, 6 week paid maternity leave. 1-2 weeks paid bereavement.

Here's my question. Are people calling off in academics and milking their sick time pto while getting paid or will that get you fired?

 

[aneftp]

You really do know your stuff. Friend looked into it and they accrue about 120 hrs in a year of sick leave or 3 weeks but not sure if it carries over? In addition, 6 week paid maternity leave. 1-2 weeks paid bereavement.

Here's my question. Are people calling off in academics and milking their sick time pto while getting paid or will that get you fired?

Sick leave always carries over indefinitely in most state and federal places I know

It’s almost like a free short term disability plan.

The women can attack maternity leave on top of the sick leave. Most women I know in state and federal employee anesthesia places take an average of 4.5 months off.

Good for them. I think people should be paid for time off

Many silicone valley employers outside of medicine pay for 6 months to up to 12 months off

But these “perks” are all part why people stay at certain places

If someone offered me a stay at Home pat preop clinic job for 350k (4 days a week) plus 10 weeks off. I’d take that job over a 600k a year 40 hr a week job with 10 weeks off

Why? I’m saving an hour each day in commute time, gasoline car maintenance time.

All these calculations add up. Don’t have to pay for baby sitters or take sick leave if the kids are sick.

 

[SRYSPAC]

You really do know your stuff. Friend looked into it and they accrue about 120 hrs in a year of sick leave or 3 weeks but not sure if it carries over? In addition, 6 week paid maternity leave. 1-2 weeks paid bereavement.

Here's my question. Are people calling off in academics and milking their sick time pto while getting paid or will that get you fired?

Sick leave usually accumulates; to answer you second question - it depends. Some folks in any department will be known for calling out on the Friday before a vacation week, or Monday after. Doing that repeatedly won't necessarily get them fired, but colleagues aren't stupid and they talk - that sort of stuff won't win you any friends.

I wouldn't consider sick leave that accrues as actual vacation weeks since you're rarely going to use it for long periods of time, but having it in case of illness or surgery, or for child care, is definitely useful, and better than the AMC/hospital employed system of charging you PTO/UTO to call out.

 

[aneftp]

Sick leave usually accumulates; to answer you second question - it depends. Some folks in any department will be known for calling out on the Friday before a vacation week, or Monday after. Doing that repeatedly won't necessarily get them fired, but colleagues aren't stupid and they talk - that sort of stuff won't win you any friends.

I wouldn't consider sick leave that accrues as actual vacation weeks since you're rarely going to use it for long periods of time, but having it in case of illness or surgery, or for child care, is definitely useful, and better than the AMC/hospital employed system of charging you PTO/UTO to call out.

There has been a long debate to integrated sick /vacation time

It’s a corporate game.
Just google the pro and cons of integration of sick/pto time

People will tend to call out sick less! Imagine that.

 

[caligas]

There has been a long debate to integrated sick /vacation time

It’s a corporate game.
Just google the pro and cons of integration of sick/pto time

People will tend to call out sick less! Imagine that.

So looking at Gaswork for Virginia, roughly 150 full time jobs posted. Just one of those is above 700k, less than 1 percent. Gaswork doesn’t have good jobs? Need to look at other states?

 

[aneftp]

So looking at Gaswork for Virginia, roughly 150 full time jobs posted. Just one of those is above 700k, less than 1 percent. Gaswork doesn’t have good jobs? Need to look at other states?

To be honest, I don't bother going on gaswork. I don't think any of my locums assignments came from gaswork the past 4 years. I'm sure the full time jobs were posted on gaswork but it's just usually referrals for me. Gaswork is like facebook marketplace (or craiglist formerly). Just a crap load of ads and hard to figure out what's legit and what's not legit.

Employers are moving the goal posts and figuring out what works.

Think about it. Why would an employer advertise 700k (inclusive of benefits). There is no need to post it because that's market rate and they don't need any more people. If you see any ad posted, and reposted (we all know those ads) there is something wrong with that job.
Pay,
Time off
Location
Work conditions

Look this isn't 2015-2017 where there were 10 people desperately needing one open job. The tables have turned on the employers.

The market dictates who wants to take the job. Thank god most of the new grads are smarter and won't take bad deals. But employers will try to find a sucker or two every year to buy them time. So every year a new grad takes a stupid deal not knowing any better.

 

[Coffee PRN]

To be honest, I don't bother going on gaswork. I don't think any of my locums assignments came from gaswork the past 4 years. I'm sure the full time jobs were posted on gaswork but it's just usually referrals for me. Gaswork is like facebook marketplace (or craiglist formerly). Just a crap load of ads and hard to figure out what's legit and what's not legit.

Employers are moving the goal posts and figuring out what works.

Think about it. Why would an employer advertise 700k (inclusive of benefits). There is no need to post it because that's market rate and they don't need any more people. If you see any ad posted, and reposted (we all know those ads) there is something wrong with that job.
Pay,
Time off
Location
Work conditions

Look this isn't 2015-2017 where there were 10 people desperately needing one open job. The tables have turned on the employers.

The market dictates who wants to take the job. Thank god most of the new grads are smarter and won't take bad deals. But employers will try to find a sucker or two every year to buy them time. So every year a new grad takes a stupid deal not knowing any better.

Are you making direct 1099 contracts with the hospital or going through locums agency?

 

[aneftp]

Are you making direct 1099 contracts with the hospital or going through locums agency?

Surgery centers direct

Hospitals generally with wholly owned subsidies 1099 divisions of companies than own the anesthesia contract. If Envison owns contract. I contact envoy. If Napa owns contract I contact bridge care.

I usually work backwards. Meaning a crna or another doc working already will throw out my name to will whoever is in charge. Than they me how many days or weeks they need me. Than I contact the locums Division. It’s like using Zillow or realtor to find a place. Than using a realtor for the transaction.

 

[amyl]

Congrats

You are making market pay I’ve been telling everyone about. The market is 700k/40 hrs a week/10 weeks off.

This is the current market rates. If you aren’t getting close to these numbers you are getting underpaid

But that’s not easy to find most places….

 

[Maverikk]

It's easy to find if you ask around, it's not being advertised because you can still get new grads who think 550 and lots of call and unreimbursed time in the hospital is great, which it is after residency until you get burned out. I have a friend looking, mostly metro areas, if someone has experience and knows the market the time to negotiate for a full time w2 is now.

 

[DazedWanderer]

700k ten weeks off and 40 hours is not the market W2 rate. That may be the market rate for locums or maybe W2 for places > 1 hour from any make Metro greater than 750k people.

This. People are delusional if they think 700k for 40hrs/wk with 10 weeks of vacation is truly the "market rate" for a W2 position. I love how OP specifically emphasized he wanted to hear what people are actually making, not just see speculative numbers pulled from a hat about what you "deserve" or "should be" making, yet almost immediately the thread has devolved into just that, with people proclaiming nobody should accept less than $350/hr on W2 and 700k for 40hrs/wk and 10 weeks of vacation is "the average market rate" for an employed position. Assuming ZERO vacation, 700k for 40hrs per week is ave. $336/hr. If you include 10 weeks of vacation that's ave. $415/hr. While obtainable as locum if you look hard enough, that is well above the average market rate even for locums positions... but that is certainly not anywhere close to the "market rate" for a W2 employed position in a single state. Just because a couple unicorn jobs exist out there with those kinds of rates, does not make it the market rate by any stretch of the imagination. If it were, people wouldn't be flying and driving all over the place to secure locums gigs for less than that.

 

[PainInTheAnes]

This. People are delusional if they think 700k for 40hrs/wk with 10 weeks of vacation is truly the "market rate" for a W2 position. I love how OP specifically emphasized he wanted to hear what people are actually making, not just see speculative numbers pulled from a hat about what you "deserve" or "should be" making, yet almost immediately the thread has devolved into just that, with people proclaiming nobody should accept less than $350/hr on W2 and 700k for 40hrs/wk and 10 weeks of vacation is "the average market rate" for an employed position. Assuming ZERO vacation, 700k for 40hrs per week is ave. $336/hr. If you include 10 weeks of vacation that's ave. $415/hr. While obtainable as locum if you look hard enough, that is well above the average market rate even for locums positions... but that is certainly not anywhere close to the "market rate" for a W2 employed position in a single state. Just because a couple unicorn jobs exist out there with those kinds of rates, does not make it the market rate by any stretch of the imagination. If it were, people wouldn't be flying and driving all over the place to secure locums gigs for less than that.

Ok, so if this is not the case, why are there so many people in this profession who are unhappy with their w2 jobs and leaving them? Is it hard to believe that people would trade a slightly higher salary for flexibility, if locums pays less?

Try to find people who are happy with their w2 jobs that pay less than that and I’m happy to hear about it. Just because everyone is underpaid doesn’t make that the market rate. The market rate is what would keep people at a job and not stray or think about retirement altogether.

If you’re working 60hrs a week with 8-10 weeks off to make 700k, but fantasizing about leaving every day, then you’re by definition not being paid enough to do the job. I know several people in this exact position or worse who will quit in a heartbeat once they reach their retirement numbers.

If pay was high enough, there wouldn’t be such a huge locums market because no one would take the bait

 

[DazedWanderer]

Ok, so if this is not the case, why are there so many people in this profession who are unhappy with their w2 jobs and leaving them? Is it hard to believe that people would trade a slightly higher salary for flexibility, if locums pays less?

In a hot market you will always see a lot of job hopping because employers are aggressively competing to attract workers and changing the rates they are offering frequently. When people have way more job options to choose from, and those employers are all vying to outbid each other, they are going to change jobs more frequently.

Try to find people who are happy with their w2 jobs that pay less than that and I’m happy to hear about it. Just because everyone is underpaid doesn’t make that the market rate. The market rate is what would keep people at a job and not stray or think about retirement altogether.

The market rate is defined as "the usual price paid for a good or a service in a free market". It has nothing to do with if people are happy with the rate or not.

If you’re working 60hrs a week with 8-10 weeks off to make 700k, but fantasizing about leaving every day, then you’re by definition not being paid enough to do the job. I know several people in this exact position or worse who will quit in a heartbeat once they reach their retirement numbers.

If pay was high enough, there wouldn’t be such a huge locums market because no one would take the bait

This is fictional thinking. If people are unhappy with their job, then the "market rate" for that job becomes whatever rate would make them happy? Ok, so the market rate for working fast food is actually $50/hr now because that's what would make the workers not hate their lives? The logic does not compute.

 

[PainInTheAnes]

In a hot market you will always see a lot of job hopping because employers are aggressively competing to attract workers and changing the rates they are offering frequently. When people have way more job options to choose from, and those employers are all vying to outbid each other, they are going to change jobs more frequently.


The market rate is defined as "the usual price paid for a good or a service in a free market". It has nothing to do with if people are happy with the rate or not.


This is fictional thinking. If people are unhappy with their job, then the "market rate" for that job becomes whatever rate would make them happy? Ok, so the market rate for working fast food is actually $50/hr now because that's what would make the workers not hate their lives? The logic does not compute.

I think what the OP is saying to is that a “hot market” means that jobs aren’t at the proper market rate.

If jobs couldn’t raise the price to lure people away then we’d be at market rate. That is, it wouldn’t be worth credentialing and moving to the new facility and/or the hassle of moving family. That would be whatever would keep people from looking around. That goes hand in hand with job satisfaction and workload.

Besides, market rate is different for every region, state, and city. But if you look at what the people who stay at their jobs and think they’re paid fairly are making, it’s closing in on that high range.

Anywhere with a staffing shortage is by definition below market rate in my opinion.

 

[ToKingdomCome]

This. People are delusional if they think 700k for 40hrs/wk with 10 weeks of vacation is truly the "market rate" for a W2 position. I love how OP specifically emphasized he wanted to hear what people are actually making, not just see speculative numbers pulled from a hat about what you "deserve" or "should be" making, yet almost immediately the thread has devolved into just that, with people proclaiming nobody should accept less than $350/hr on W2 and 700k for 40hrs/wk and 10 weeks of vacation is "the average market rate" for an employed position. Assuming ZERO vacation, 700k for 40hrs per week is ave. $336/hr. If you include 10 weeks of vacation that's ave. $415/hr. While obtainable as locum if you look hard enough, that is well above the average market rate even for locums positions... but that is certainly not anywhere close to the "market rate" for a W2 employed position in a single state. Just because a couple unicorn jobs exist out there with those kinds of rates, does not make it the market rate by any stretch of the imagination. If it were, people wouldn't be flying and driving all over the place to secure locums gigs for less than that.

Aneftp says he’s made $140K in a week tho

 

[aneftp]

Aneftp says he’s made $140K in a week tho

140k in a month.
70k in one crazy week end of August.

I’m planing on hitting 80k thanksgiving week cause of holiday pay but that’s a ton of work.

I have 180k on the table for month of November but it’s a ton of work. May give the homeless locums doc 2 weekends so he can make 50k for those open weekends.

 

[cowbydoc]

This. People are delusional if they think 700k for 40hrs/wk with 10 weeks of vacation is truly the "market rate" for a W2 position. I love how OP specifically emphasized he wanted to hear what people are actually making, not just see speculative numbers pulled from a hat about what you "deserve" or "should be" making, yet almost immediately the thread has devolved into just that, with people proclaiming nobody should accept less than $350/hr on W2 and 700k for 40hrs/wk and 10 weeks of vacation is "the average market rate" for an employed position. Assuming ZERO vacation, 700k for 40hrs per week is ave. $336/hr. If you include 10 weeks of vacation that's ave. $415/hr. While obtainable as locum if you look hard enough, that is well above the average market rate even for locums positions... but that is certainly not anywhere close to the "market rate" for a W2 employed position in a single state. Just because a couple unicorn jobs exist out there with those kinds of rates, does not make it the market rate by any stretch of the imagination. If it were, people wouldn't be flying and driving all over the place to secure locums gigs for less than that.

Thanks Dazed. This has turned into the “how much did aneftp make each month” thread. While I’m very happy for aneftp the original intent of this was to see how much employed docs were getting for hourly rates, selling back PTO and weekends.

 

[ambiturner]

A local employed group I’m familiar with gets $250/hr after hours. They believe this to be under market value, but it is a pleasant place to work that has no trouble recruiting and has thus not been increased. Local academic groups typically do 200-250/hr after 5. Desirable, large metro.

 

[Shimmy8]

300/hr for us

 

[aneftp]

Thanks Dazed. This has turned into the “how much did aneftp make each month” thread. While I’m very happy for aneftp the original intent of this was to see how much employed docs were getting for hourly rates, selling back PTO and weekends.

It’s generally as low as $230/hr to $300/hr w2 for docs internal locums for most academic university places and amc. Some private w2 internal locums is as low as $195/hr (that I have seen in the contracts presented) for a DOC! While they pay their crnas $220/hr internal w2 overtime. Makes no sense at all

Shows u. Partner Docs don’t mind ripping off non partner w2 docs but will pay crnas market rate for overtime or extra work.

 

[finalpsychyear]

140k in a month.
70k in one crazy week end of August.

I’m planing on hitting 80k thanksgiving week cause of holiday pay but that’s a ton of work.

I have 180k on the table for month of November but it’s a ton of work. May give the homeless locums doc 2 weekends so he can make 50k for those open weekends.

Can you quantify the workload intensity/drain you have to pull these numbers ? My friend who is pulling 500-550 in academic doing a single 12 hr night call per month vs weekly overnight in residency says if residency was considered a 10 on a scale of 1-10 workload she is at 5 right now and thinks to crack high 6 figs or even 7 would require 10/10 effort similar to residency which they are not interested in due to being debt free.

 

[arsene19]

The big AMC group is our area pays its own w2 MDs around 250/hr for night/wkend call.

It pays 1099 Locums 350-400/hr (medmal included).

 

[aneftp]

I cover level 1 and level 2 as well as community hospitals with ob and community hospital without oh

Intensity level is around a 3 at community hospital. And a 7 at trauma hospital (simply sicker patients)

But my perception may be different than other doctors. My level 3 may be consider a level 6 by another doctor. Or vice versa.

 

[aneftp]

The big AMC group is our area pays its own w2 MDs around 250/hr for night/wkend call.

It pays 1099 Locums 350-400/hr (medmal included).

As long as it’s not mandatory for w2 docs to work extra. Let the locums docs take all the weekend work.

If I’m a w2. I’d take the Monday -Thursday calls for extra with post call off.

That’s how the symbiotic relationship between locums and w2 docs works.

 

[cowbydoc]

The big AMC group is our area pays its own w2 MDs around 250/hr for night/wkend call.

It pays 1099 Locums 350-400/hr (medmal included).

I’m curious how groups continue to function with this hourly rate disparity. What keeps the full time w2 people from either quitting or demanding similar rates?

 

[aneftp]

I’m curious how groups continue to function with this hourly rate disparity. What keeps the full time w2 people from either quitting or demanding similar rates?

Because some idiot docs like to drop $466 for lunch for their twin 5 year old kids at overprice Disney world today and gotta pay bills. That’s why these docs work for any money extra overtime even lowly w2. $250 x 8 hrs is still $2000 ($1400 after taxes). That’s enough for a day at Disney.

 

[amyl]

There is no doubt inflation is real…. It’s always supply and demand- hotels, restaurants and airfare that took a hit with Covid… now people will pay a premium for these things… myself included. Everything just seems to cost more these days… maybe wages are up?

 

[aneftp]

There is no doubt inflation is real…. It’s always supply and demand- hotels, restaurants and airfare that took a hit with Covid… now people will pay a premium for these things… myself included. Everything just seems to cost more these days… maybe wages are up?

Some industry wages are way up like soft engineering. In addition to wages up. Many get to work from home. That’s saves not only on mental fatigue. But less time on the road have hidden benefits as we all know.

Think about this. A state academic PAT director makes around 450k. Even with no pay raise and letting them work alt schedules 7-5p (4 days a week) plus work from home. That immediately makes that job worth another 25% due to lack of commute (average commute is 50-60 min round trip for Americans) (the average hospital commute time in state of Florida is 23-29 minutes each way)

 

[JoelJoel84]

We pay $300/hr in my current Mid-Atlantic PP, while my previous group in the Northeast, which I am still close with the docs, also pays $300/hr for OT or covering a day for a doc/crna emergency.

No problem finding someone to cover, even coming in from post-call or vacation if at home , and I think it’s a very reasonable wage.

 

[SRYSPAC]

Because some idiot docs like to drop $466 for lunch for their twin 5 year old kids at overprice Disney world today and gotta pay bills. That’s why these docs work for any money extra overtime even lowly w2. $250 x 8 hrs is still $2000 ($1400 after taxes). That’s enough for a day at Disney.

Another common issue is someone is stuck with a $1.5-2M (or more) mortgage 1-3 years out of training in a desirable area while paying loans on two luxury SUVs - same thing; gotta pay the bills.