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[deleted206436]

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[HumidBeing]

Your chances are non-zero, especially if you are Canadian. There are some that are more open to accepting Canadians than other international students. Do get your hands on an MSAR to help you decide which schools are your best bets.

You can improve your chances by getting your application submitted in the summer instead of waiting until next fall.

I'm not familiar with which schools are most favorable for Canadian applicants, but others on here are. I hope they do reply for you.

 

[Mobius1985]

Your numbers are so good I'm wondering why you don't apply to Canadian schools. US schools generally hold international students to a higher standard than that met by citizens, but it seems you meet that higher staandard. Your application weakness at US schools will be the fact that less than a year of ECs, due to a last minute decision to consider medicine, will hardly convince adcomms that you are committed to the path to becoming a physician. Your application would be more convincing with an additional year of clinical exposure and more research than you currently predict. When you apply, you'd apply to 15-20 schools, if your ECs are strong, but maybe 30 if you apply with the experiences you are planning on.

 

[stixx]

In terms of how many/which schools....here's a (very outdated) list of American schools that are friendly to Canadians so you could start there. The way I made my list though was by looking at the % of international students admitted at each school (this can be found in the MSAR, USNews or the spreadsheet in this forum) keeping in mind that certain schools count Canadians as OOS, not international. There's no real way to find out besides checking the websites of the schools you're interested in. Actually, I'm a really bad example...if I were to apply again I'd start with RFU/Wayne/NYMC, and then a ton of private mid-tiers, and a few "citizenship-blind" reaches.

 

[Mobius1985]

Canadian schools look very heavily on ECs, and these usually weigh 50% of the application or more.

May I ask, what are the general EC expectations for Canadian med schools?

 

[Mobius1985]

So you mean they expect about two years or more for each EC? Or do they go more by number of hours of involvement?

Areas of Human Endeavor means what? hobbies, humanitarian work?

 

[stixx]

For some idea, the "autobiographical sketch" portion of OMSAS (Ontario version of AMCAS), which is equivalent to the "work/activities" section has room for 48 entries. And it's not rare to fill them all. Granted, you can include ECs from 16 and up, but still. I used my 15 AMCAS activities, then by adding some things from high school, and splitting some of the entries (e.g. shadowing different doctors) I got it to around 25. But I still may get a disapproving glance from somewhere like McMaster for not being "involved enough."

It's quantity over quality, or duration for that matter. Most schools simply churn out a numerical score: leadership? +5 points. Community involvement? +10 points, etc. For one school that may make up 20% of your overall score. Then 40% may be some combination of your MCAT/GPA, and the other 40% is your performance as scored by your interviewer. The people with the top 100 scores make the class. This is because faculty up here don't really have the time or budjet to hold committee meetings where they actually consider each applicant's fit for the school individually. It's all very automated. Whether or not that's more or less fair is often a subject of debate. One positive thing is it's definitely more transparent, with many of the schools posting their admissions "formulae" online so you're not left guessing.

 

[Mobius1985]

Thanks, stixx. I appreciate the details.

 

[tennisball80]

Ya, 2, 3 or even 5 years of some ECs is not uncommon for people here.

One will score points in "Areas of Human Endeavor" if he grew up on the streets addicted to heroin, got stabbed 4 times in a robbery but still kept his GPA at 4.33 in the same term, went to africa to do humanitarian work and contracted malaria + hepatitis there, all at the same time training and getting a gold medal in the Olympics.

lol....

 

[Mobius1985]

Ya, 2, 3 or even 5 years of some ECs is not uncommon for people here.

One will score points in "Areas of Human Endeavor" if he grew up on the streets addicted to heroin, got stabbed 4 times in a robbery but still kept his GPA at 4.33 in the same term, went to africa to do humanitarian work and contracted malaria + hepatitis there, all at the same time training and getting a gold medal in the Olympics.

Brutal!

 

[Mobius1985]

I PMed you. Check your messages.

 

[santai]

oh my god.. 48 entries?
I might probably come up with 4 if I think really hard.. I gotta get more involved

You can also put awards, scholarships, research, etc on there; it can be formal or informal too. I think most people who "barely did anything" can come up with at least 20 things if they think hard.


But regarding medicine in Canada: the problem with Canada is that there are very few spots and admission to any Canadian school is as selective as an upper tier American school. Marks and MCAT are near useless here. They operate with cutoffs where getting above a 11/10/10/R and 3.75ish will ensure you can get into any school. Nearly everything else will be your non-academic qualifications. Selection rate is about 3-5% at a particular school based on these subjective non-academic criteria.

They really do go for quality over quantity though. Meeting the cutoffs and having research and clinical volunteering puts you in a good position. As long as you fill out 30ish items with good quality stuff, I think you're good.

 

[se20001984]

You can also put awards, scholarships, research, etc on there; it can be formal or informal too. I think most people who "barely did anything" can come up with at least 20 things if they think hard.


But regarding medicine in Canada: the problem with Canada is that there are very few spots and admission to any Canadian school is as selective as an upper tier American school. Marks and MCAT are near useless here. They operate with cutoffs where getting above a 11/10/10/R and 3.75ish will ensure you can get into any school. Nearly everything else will be your non-academic qualifications. Selection rate is about 3-5% at a particular school based on these subjective non-academic criteria.

They really do go for quality over quantity though. Meeting the cutoffs and having research and clinical volunteering puts you in a good position. As long as you fill out 30ish items with good quality stuff, I think you're good.

EC are big...but marks and MCATs are what get people in..
i believe 20% of the application focuses on ECs..the rest is on marks and mcat..(followed by interview)..

I know people who have gotten in with almost nothing in terms of EC..but close to 4.0 gpas and 30+ mcats..

i think you are fine..if you dont get in this cycle...its just a matter of investing more time toward EC..which isnt that hard to do when you compare it to the marks...

 

[se20001984]

EC are big...but marks and MCATs are what get people in..
i believe 20% of the application focuses on ECs..the rest is on marks and mcat..(followed by interview)..

I know people who have gotten in with almost nothing in terms of EC..but close to 4.0 gpas and 30+ mcats..

i think you are fine..if you dont get in this cycle...its just a matter of investing more time toward EC..which isnt that hard to do when you compare it to the marks...

Also, the canadian mcat cutoffs are min: 10/10/10..

 

[Mobius1985]

With your numbers, if you apply to 20 schools, you'd likely have to complete 20 secondaries (assuming you apply only to schools taking any internationals). If you don't want to do that many, you need to do your research first and decide where you would not want to go, based on perhaps geography, type of weather, cost, required escrow account, type of curriculum (Problem-Based Learning, vs organ-based systems, vs traditional classroom lectures, vs block system), etc. Of all US schools, there aren't a lot that accept a significant number of internationals. You can see which they are by looking at the 'School Selection Spreadsheet" sticky at the top of this forum, scroll to the last column of the linked grid, and see the percent of internationals taken each year. Personally, I'd target those with the highest numbers.

 

[HeatherMD]

Canadian schools look very heavily on ECs, and these usually weigh 50% of the application or more. So my weak EC's definately won't help. That's got me thinking about schools in the states, since they care more about GPAs and MCAT score.

LOL

maybe Saskatchewan with their new 60/40 system, but from what I understand, you still have to make the hyper-competitive GPA cut-off and THEN have above-and-beyond EC's.

The challenging thing in Canada is most schools give priority to in-province applicants, and that severely limits your options and opportunities. It's not like America where there's over a hundred schools to choose from and you have a pretty good shot at some even if they're across the country.

I'm not even going to bother applying to schools outside my province! Waste of time & application fees!