International MSTP's

Discussion in 'Physician Scientists' started by brandonite, Apr 23, 2002.

  1. brandonite

    Moderator Emeritus 7+ Year Member

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    I just saw the Canadian thread on the other page, and I though that this would be a good time to get a list together of schools that will accept international students. I'll add WashU to start this whole process off. :) I know there are almost certainly others, but I've forgotten exactly which ones right now.

    Schools that accept international MSTPs:

    Washington University (St. Louis)
     
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  2. sluox

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    I used to be an international but recently got my greencard!! YAY! ('tis why i know several schools that accept intl's)

    Washington University in St. Louis
    Harvard (HST and New Pathway)
    Stanford
    Johns Hopkins

    Remember all of the above school says something like despite that they do accept these kids, it is extremely competitive for intl' students since NIH doesn't provide the funding. Also, if you have access to USNEWS, they have statitics for intl' medical school applicants.
     
  3. Original

    Original Ogori-Magongo Warrior
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    I'm adding Duke and UChicago. Though on paper Duke says they don't accept international students, I'd still go ahead and apply.

    Washington University in St. Louis
    Harvard (HST and New Pathway)
    Stanford
    Johns Hopkins
    Duke
    Univ of Chicago
     
  4. shamus1

    shamus1 Member
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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by sluox:
    <strong>I used to be an international but recently got my greencard!! YAY! ('tis why i know several schools that accept intl's)

    Washington University in St. Louis
    Harvard (HST and New Pathway)
    Stanford
    Johns Hopkins

    Remember all of the above school says something like despite that they do accept these kids, it is extremely competitive for intl' students since NIH doesn't provide the funding. Also, if you have access to USNEWS, they have statitics for intl' medical school applicants.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sluox-

    Your statement is true for all the above but Wash U's MSTP. They make no differentiation between US citizens and others. They told me that the admission rate for non-US citizens is actually higher than that for Americans. Part of that may be attributable to the small numbers involved and the fact that the international students applying to do MSTP are the best and brightest their countries have to offer, but that statistic is still pretty impressive. They have something like a hundred-billion space bucks, so even though they have on of the largest MSTP grants (which cannot be used for non-citizens) they can give foreign citizens full funding. Pretty sweet deal.

    From what Original has said, his experience with Duke seems to be accidental: the office screwed up and did not realize that he was not a US citizen or permanent resident, implying that they would not have interviewed him had they been aware of that. It all worked out well in the end for him, but I would not pin a lot of hope on spending 8 years in Durham on Sal Pizzo's dime.
     
  5. Original

    Original Ogori-Magongo Warrior
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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by shamus1:
    <strong>

    From what Original has said, his experience with Duke seems to be accidental: the office screwed up and did not realize that he was not a US citizen or permanent resident, implying that they would not have interviewed him had they been aware of that. It all worked out well in the end for him, but I would not pin a lot of hope on spending 8 years in Durham on Sal Pizzo's dime.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Only partly true. It's true that I got an interview under the false assumption that I was a U.S citizen. However, they went ahead and interviewed Sonic and one other international student with full pre-interview knowledge of their status. In addition, after finding out my status they could very well have rejected me post-interview due to "a very competitive applicant pool". Also, Sal told me that they had accepted a canadian in the past though he ended up elsewhere. My take is that if you have $100 you can afford to "probably" lose, then definitely apply there. But then that's also true even if you're a U.S citizen.
     
  6. Sonic Hedgehog

    Sonic Hedgehog MSTP guru
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    OK, so I haven't posted in a while... but....

    ....I agree with Original. I was interviewed at Duke, just like Original and another Korean guy whose name I have since forgotten. So Duke will interview, and accept foreign students.

    The only school I'm a little unsure about is Harvard. Harvard sent me a letter in which it stated that the best they could do was to offer me an interview to be considered for a non-funded MSTP slot (NP and HST)... They sort of corroborate this on their website as well.

    I also would not count on Johns Hopkins, although I'm going there this year. Johns Hopkins has never accepted non-citizens before, and even this year, they managed to offer me a funded position only because of a private fellowship from Merck, which offered to provide the same amount of money given by NIH. So they put me on Merck's money and gave me an offer.

    Stanford doesn't either. I know this because I'm an undergrad there. Stanford's best has been to offer a tuition remission, but no stipend, for a Canadian student. I considered all this before I decided I would not live in the Bay area without a stipend (living with the stipend is bad enough!)

    Although I've said this in the MSTP Boulevard thread before, these are the schools that will accepted foreign students -- correct me if I'm wrong.

    Columbia
    Cornell/Rockefeller/Sloan-Kettering
    Wash.U
    U.Minnesota (Twin Cities)
    Penn State
    Northwestern
    UT-Southwestern (Excellent program)
    Baylor
    Yale
    Emory
    Vanderbilt
    University of Chicago
    University of Washington (Seattle)
    U.Southern California (money for 1/2 the MD yrs)
    U.Penn
    Duke (I guess)
    Brown

    That's all I remember, for the time being.
     
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  7. marq_bme

    marq_bme Senior Member
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    sonic, ive heard youve had quite a lot of success with this process. I PM'ed you with a few questions
     
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  8. Fay

    Fay
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    uh..I think University of Washington doesn't accept any international students to MD or MD/PhD program. I was an undergrad there.
     
  9. Fay

    Fay
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    Btw, do you know how many international students have Upenn accepted in the past? Thanks.
     
  10. Neuronix

    Neuronix Total nerd
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    Penn seems to admit on the order of 1 per year to 1 every other year.
     
  11. SuperMatt

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    updated:

    Columbia
    Cornell/Rockefeller/Sloan-Kettering
    Dartmouth
    Wash.U
    U.Minnesota (Twin Cities)
    Mayo
    Mt.Sinai
    Penn State
    Northwestern
    U. Chicago
    Rosalind Franklin
    UT-Southwestern (Excellent program)
    Baylor
    Yale (if you look at their site is says they do not accept internationals)
    Emory
    Vanderbilt
    Vermont
    University of Chicago
    University of Washington (Seattle)
    U.Southern California (money for 1/2 the MD yrs) (i emailed them and they do not accept internationals)
    U.Penn
    Upstate
    Duke (I guess)
    Brown
    Tufts
    Boston
    AECOM
    Indiana
    U.Cinn
     
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  12. bindas

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    This is my first post here. pretty exciting.
    I am an international student and matriculating at a US MSTP program in a few months.
    First visit mdphds.org: http://mdphds.org/guide.shtml (list of schools that have accepted international students is at the bottom of the page).

    My advice is call every schoolon that list not once but multiple times during the application process. reconfirm a month before applying and ask them again in the middle of the admission cycle. Schools change policy every year, and sometimes, mid-year.
    When I applied to UChicago in June last year, they welcomed international students. Turns out as they were going through the application, they decided they don't have money for internationals, and zip, we were out. They still haven't sent the official rejection though.

    From my experience this year, it seemed like some schools consistently accepted international students. UT Southwestern and AECOM are the biggies; they both are quality schools. But a mjority of the schools in the list above and on MDPhDs.org will not take international students this year.

    -bindas
     
  13. PTPoeny

    PTPoeny Senior Member
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    I know there is one in my md/phd class, I don't know if they have changed policy.

     
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  14. chela47

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    updated:

    Columbia
    Cornell/Rockefeller/Sloan-Kettering
    Dartmouth
    Wash.U
    U.Minnesota (Twin Cities)
    Mayo
    Mt.Sinai
    Penn State
    Northwestern
    U. Chicago
    Rosalind Franklin
    UT-Southwestern (Excellent program)
    Baylor
    Yale (if you look at their site is says they do not accept internationals)
    Emory
    Vanderbilt
    Vermont
    University of Chicago
    University of Washington (Seattle)
    U.Southern California (money for 1/2 the MD yrs) (i emailed them and they do not accept internationals)
    U.Penn
    Upstate
    Duke (I guess)
    Brown
    Tufts
    Boston
    AECOM
    Indiana
    U.Cinn
    UVA!!!

    **
    I'm international and got accepted to UVA MSTP with full funding -- and its a great great program :)
     
  15. lovexn

    lovexn The Devil who wears Panda
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    Columbia
    Cornell/Rockefeller/Sloan-Kettering
    Dartmouth
    Wash.U
    U.Minnesota (Twin Cities)----> accepts like 1 in 5 years (from their undergrad, state residency rules)
    Mayo
    Mt.Sinai
    Penn State
    Northwestern
    U. Chicago
    Rosalind Franklin
    UT-Southwestern (Excellent program)
    Baylor
    Yale (if you look at their site is says they do not accept internationals)
    Emory
    Vanderbilt
    Vermont
    University of Chicago
    University of Washington (Seattle)
    U.Southern California (money for 1/2 the MD yrs) (i emailed them and they do not accept internationals)
    U.Penn
    Upstate
    Duke (I guess)
    Brown
    Tufts
    Boston
    AECOM
    Indiana
    U.Cinn
    UVA!!!
    Vermont
    Keck
     
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  16. Shatterstar17

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    We have a Canadian in our class. If that counts.
     
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  17. amester07

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    I'm Canadian (no U.S. greencard) and will most likely attend UT Southwestern this fall.

    Bindas, I'm relieved to read that UChicago didn't take int'l this year after all! I was all worried reading other posts, as well as mdphds.org, because I succintly remember emailing them and receiving a negative reply.

    Shatterstar, congrats on UPenn, you must be a star indeed! ... I blamed my pre-interview rejection on their dislike for Canadian applicants, haha.

    Where are/did you all go to college, btw? I stayed in Canada.
     
  18. hawkeey

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    UT Southwestern has a ton of private funding so they can take quite a few international students (Uncle Ross Perot, Merck).

    UChicago can be kind of strange sometimes in this regard, but they do have the money.
     
  19. Fay

    Fay
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    Congrats to those who got accepted this year!!:) I'm so happy for you.

    Could you share some of your application experience here? As international students, what were your strategies in applying? Did you apply to tons of schools? How was the overall process? How many rejection/waitlist you received were due to funding issues? Did you obtain external scholarship before applying?

    Thanks.
     
  20. amester07

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    I checked out the top ~40 schools according to the USnews rankings (http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/grad/rankings/med/brief/mdrrank_brief.php), and applied to the ones that take international students (and are in locations that I don't mind living in for the next 8 years). The mdphds.org list was helpful, but as someone pointed out earlier, things vary quite a bit year-to-year for some schools, so I emailed the ones that give ambiguous/conflicting info just to make sure.

    I think for some schools, it also makes a difference if your undergrad institution is in the States, North America, etc. (it helps if you attended college in the States, less so Canada -- at least that's the impression I got, but still helps if it's an English-speaking country) As well, I heard that it would help if you apply with an external scholarship already in hand. (at least for Hopkins? correct me if I'm wrong)

    I didn't have any external funding going into the application process. And it's hard to gauage if rejections/waitlists are specifically due to intern'l funding issues: one could argue that *any* rejection/waitlist (even for U.S. citizens) is due to funding issues, since MSTP spots are so limited everywhere.

    Hope this helps. I'll PM you my mdapp which hopefully answers your other questions. :)
     
  21. Jorje286

    Jorje286 Member
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    That's a great thread. The policy depends from school and school, and I think some put restrictions and others treat international students like any other student. AECOM explicitely mentions this, for example.
     
  22. Fay

    Fay
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    Do anyone know how many of these schools have rolling system (i.e. better to apply as early as possible)? I'm trying to decide when to take MCAT. Thanks.

    Btw, U of Washington (Seattle) really doesn't accept int'l students.
     
  23. hawkeey

    hawkeey Member
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    Umm... I think the question is which one of these programs is not rolling? Most of the schools have rolling interviews. If you apply early, you are likely to get an interview earlier. Most of the programs also hand their offers out after a specified date and all at once, with some exception for some excellent applicants.

    When applying MD/PhD it is especially important to get those applications out as quickly as possible. You should be fine if you take your MCAT by the April before the season starts in June. As far as I have seen, applying early confers significant advantages to getting interviews, which then makes offers much more likely.

    All of this is especially true if you are an international student. If you are planning to apply in this coming application season, then I recommend taking the MCAT as soon as possible. Otherwise, take in sometime before April of next year and apply June 2008.
     
  24. genesius

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    I'm glad I found this thread - I'm an international student in the US and plan to apply Md/PhD. Based on what I've read in MSAR, there have been international matriculants in some of the listed programs in the past.

    I guess my question for the other international applicants is what is your back-up plan, in the worst case scenario of not getting into any md/phd programs in the US?

    my advisor has recommended applying to grad schools because of secure funding, but I would lack clinical training if I choose this route.

    What are your thoughts?
     
  25. akhanna

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    Hey i wanted to know how you got the information for that Merck Internship, and if it was open to non residents?
     
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  26. holodynamics

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    Genesis I have similar thoughts as you do.. What do MSTP ppl keep as their back-up option? MD program? Phd progam?

    Since I don't know my MCAT scores yet, I am confused whether I should even dare to look at MSTP programs yet. Any comments?
     
  27. jjmack

    jjmack Senior Member
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    I would use MD as a backup. PhD is a very different route. If you want to have anything to do with patients the MD is the way to go.
     
  28. Jorje286

    Jorje286 Member
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    The problem is that it's almost impossible for intl students to get into US medical schools. The only back up plan I guess is to do a phd.
     
  29. jjmack

    jjmack Senior Member
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    I'm sure it is tough, but there are a bunch of int students in my class. Some schools may be more open to the idea than others.
     
  30. holodynamics

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    What school is it jjmack?

    Also, since I will not know my MCAT scores till mid-July, do you think it even makes sense for me to apply to any schools for MD/PhD ? (this is specially because aren't only exceptional international students (MCAT 35+)guaranteed MD/PhD admission?)

    Thanks for your input.. I think it is helping me.
     
  31. Maebea

    Maebea Member
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    No one is guaranteed admission, no matter what the MCAT score is. We had 15 applicants with MCATs of 40 or better this year. 5 were interviewed and 3 offered admission.

    Over the years, I have seen international students with MCATs in the the low 30's admitted to MD-PhD programs. It is tougher for international students because the number of available spots is just a fraction of the total MD-PhD cohort.
     
  32. genesius

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    Hi jjmack - I've decided to apply all md-phd programs this year - I know it's a huge risk, but I think I'm going to regret if I don't apply at all. If you have solid research experience to back up your MCAT score, you should definitely try.

    About using MD-only as back up: I called a few medical schools that I was interested in going and asked if it were possible to transfer into the MD-PhD prog after the first year, and almost all said no. I know of international students at my school who are at the top medical schools - so getting in as Md-only is possible. If MD-PhD is your route, applying Md-only and transferring in may not be a feasible option.

    Best of luck! :)
     
  33. Fay

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