international optometry?

[scvcstar]

I'm not sure if this question has been explored on this forum before, since I don't really know how to go about searching for this type of question...but...if you know of previous threads, please point me to them so I can check them out! Or offer new insight if there is any.

Which countries have optometrists, with the same definition and scope as in the United States? I have to qualify this because in some places, like Taiwan and Hong Kong, there aren't really any optometrists, just opticians and maybe ophthalmologists. And anyone can be an optician and open an eyeglasses shop, and they do contact lenses too.

So if you get your optometry degree in the United States, what opportunities abroad do you have to practice full-scope optometry? Like, if I were to use my skills abroad, I really do not want to be just refracting people and prescribing glasses and contact lenses all day. I think Australia/New Zealand have real optometrists...where else?

And kind of a related question...if you use your skills in medical missions, do you get to use the full scope also? I recall one international healthcare missions organization telling me that there is no distinction between optometrists and ophthalmologists in the medical missions field - eye care is eye care and you'll do it all...so I guess that means optometrists would end up doing eye surgery too? Someone please clarify this, especially if you've gone on international healthcare missions...

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[popygai]

I was in South Italy this summer, in Positano, along the Amalfi coast, and I went into an optical shop; they told me that optometrists were highly in demand there.

 

[jefguth]

I'm not sure if this question has been explored on this forum before, since I don't really know how to go about searching for this type of question...but...if you know of previous threads, please point me to them so I can check them out! Or offer new insight if there is any.

Which countries have optometrists, with the same definition and scope as in the United States? I have to qualify this because in some places, like Taiwan and Hong Kong, there aren't really any optometrists, just opticians and maybe ophthalmologists. And anyone can be an optician and open an eyeglasses shop, and they do contact lenses too.

So if you get your optometry degree in the United States, what opportunities abroad do you have to practice full-scope optometry? Like, if I were to use my skills abroad, I really do not want to be just refracting people and prescribing glasses and contact lenses all day. I think Australia/New Zealand have real optometrists...where else?

And kind of a related question...if you use your skills in medical missions, do you get to use the full scope also? I recall one international healthcare missions organization telling me that there is no distinction between optometrists and ophthalmologists in the medical missions field - eye care is eye care and you'll do it all...so I guess that means optometrists would end up doing eye surgery too? Someone please clarify this, especially if you've gone on international healthcare missions...

There are no other countries in the world with optometric scopes of practice wider than those available in the USA, I'm thinking of prescibing therapuetic medications, injections, limited "surgical" procedures, etc. In fact, in most countries, "optometrists" do not exists. The only countries I can think of that begin to approach a similar scope of practice are Canada (depending upon province, but still limited in comparison to most states), Australia (again depends on the state), UK (may soon gain limited drug rx privs.). Others such as the Netherlands, NZ, HK, Singapore, tend to be along the lines of traditional optometry...refractive care and disease detection. Optometrist in Germany are presently not permitted to use diagnositic dugs (no dilation), but that may soon change. In India I believe that optometrist are involved in some surgical care, I think a professor (of optometry) I had in undergrad told my class that he observed optometry students at the LV Prasad Eye Insitute doing Cataract extraction, but I'm not so sure.

There definately are opportunites for US OD's to puruse careers abroad, I've seen job offers for Bermuda, Caribbean, and UAE but you'd have to practice under the local scope.

As for optometrists and ophthal borders breaking down on mission trips....I guess everyone would be so busy dealing with patients that they would do their best to treat each petient to the best of their abilities, but that doesn't mean optometrists would all of the sudden start performing surgery without having any idea how. That said, most optometric missions are refractive in nature when it comes to actual treatments, either the patient needs surgery which would have to been done by an ophthalmologist or they need pharmecutical treatment which may not be a possibility for a patient without long term access to the necessary meds.

 

[indigo99]

In Australia, all states can use diagnostic drugs and some states can prescribe therapeutic drugs but it's only in the beginning stages and varies from each state. The therapeutics law was only passed through the government a few years ago and some states are still waiting for the list of drugs they will be able to prescribe. No minor surgical procedures.

From reading up on the OD program. It seems to focus alot on the body as a whole wheras we primary focused on ocular stuff and did a little bit the physiology, pharmacology etc. Optometry used to be a 4 year undergraduate bachelors degree but it's now changed to 5 years due to therapeutics and it's quite competitive to get into. (There's only 3 optometry schools in Australia and the schools accept about 60-80 students per year)
We do refractions and CLs fittings (incl keratoconus, RGPs, ortho-k etc). You need a valid Rx to purchase glasses or CLs in Aust.

There's a high demand for optometrists in the rural areas and you could probably get more hands-on stuff and make some use of your skills and the money is better.
But honestly I think it'll still take alot of time for the Australian public to think that they should go to an optometrist first if they had a red eye. Alot of them go to their medical practitioner who then just refers to the ophthalmologist. Probably cos we're not doctors here.

Well hope this helps a bit. Feel free to ask more questions and btw, the scope of optometry in NZ is the same. If you're registered in Aust/NZ you can practice in both countries without having to take any test. But I read recently that ODs have to take a test if they want to practice in Aust and it's held in Washington.

 

[Opii]

Greece has illegalized optometry. anyone know why?

 

[scvcstar]

Thanks, that's really helpful...it looks like it's better just to stay in the States for most of the time if you want to practice full-scope optometry, and just offer services abroad for a few months or a year every now and then through medical missions.

 

[scvcstar]

Well hope this helps a bit. Feel free to ask more questions and btw, the scope of optometry in NZ is the same. If you're registered in Aust/NZ you can practice in both countries without having to take any test. But I read recently that ODs have to take a test if they want to practice in Aust and it's held in Washington.

Wow, thanks for the great information! What is the degree for optometry in Aust/NZ; is it still OD? Are there any schools of optometry in NZ?

 

[indigo99]

The course in Aust/NZ isn't OD. It's just an undergrad bachelors degree.
There's 2 optometry schools in NZ. One in Auckland and I'm not sure where the other one is. I went to the uni of auckland for my externship and some of the supervisors were optoms from Canada.

 

[scvcstar]

The course in Aust/NZ isn't OD. It's just an undergrad bachelors degree.
There's 2 optometry schools in NZ. One in Auckland and I'm not sure where the other one is. I went to the uni of auckland for my externship and some of the supervisors were optoms from Canada.

Which optometry school did you go to?

So if you were to go to optometry school in NZ, you'd just get an undergrad bachelor's degree, and then go and practice?

 

[POJO]

The course in Aust/NZ isn't OD. It's just an undergrad bachelors degree.
There's 2 optometry schools in NZ. One in Auckland and I'm not sure where the other one is. I went to the uni of auckland for my externship and some of the supervisors were optoms from Canada.

I think Auckland is the only optometry school in NZ. There are several in Australia.

The course of study of optometry is the BSc in Optometry which allows the recipient to sit for the exams in either NZ or Australia.

 

[indigo99]

Which optometry school did you go to?

So if you were to go to optometry school in NZ, you'd just get an undergrad bachelor's degree, and then go and practice?

University of Auckland

Yep. In NZ and Aust you just have the pass the exams during uni and don't need to sit a separate national boards exam (well from my understanding of what you guys have to do in the states?). And you're automatically allowed to practice in other states. You just have to make sure you're registered which is just some paperwork.

 

[scvcstar]

University of Auckland

Yep. In NZ and Aust you just have the pass the exams during uni and don't need to sit a separate national boards exam (well from my understanding of what you guys have to do in the states?). And you're automatically allowed to practice in other states. You just have to make sure you're registered which is just some paperwork.

Wow, cool.

This is totally off-topic but I think it's awesome you're from Auckland. I have two friends studying on exchange at my university (UCSD) and they're from University of Auckland as well. I love Kiwis now! =) sweet as!

 

[xmattODx]

And kind of a related question...if you use your skills in medical missions, do you get to use the full scope also? I recall one international healthcare missions organization telling me that there is no distinction between optometrists and ophthalmologists in the medical missions field - eye care is eye care and you'll do it all...so I guess that means optometrists would end up doing eye surgery too? Someone please clarify this, especially if you've gone on international healthcare missions...

Could you clarify your question? What type of "healthcare missions" are you talking about? Short-term? Long-term?

I would hope, in the interest of justice and patient care, that no optometrists are doing surgery while on medical "missions". We are not trained surgeons. My experience with "missions" is that optometrists provide optometric services often to the detriment of the population.

 

[scvcstar]

Could you clarify your question? What type of "healthcare missions" are you talking about? Short-term? Long-term?

I would hope, in the interest of justice and patient care, that no optometrists are doing surgery while on medical "missions". We are not trained surgeons. My experience with "missions" is that optometrists provide optometric services often to the detriment of the population.

Any kind of healthcare missions. And by missions I only mean going out to serve those who otherwise would not have access to healthcare. This might be in the US or elsewhere, from one day to 10 years. I know Unite For Sight does a lot of these kinds of trips.

It was a stupid question to ask if optometrists would be doing surgery, you can disregard that. But if you were an optometrist in Oklahoma and know a bit of surgery, I guess you could use that? But I definitely agree that you should not be doing things you are not trained to do, especially when it affects another human's life.

So, I guess you would agree with the statement, "Community outreach to the disadvantaged is NOT important to the growth of the optometric profession" (that was one of the essay questions for the Berkeley interview this year).

 

[xmattODx]

So, I guess you would agree with the statement, "Community outreach to the disadvantaged is NOT important to the growth of the optometric profession" (that was one of the essay questions for the Berkeley interview this year).

No I would not agree with that.

I am speaking purely from an international "mission" standpoint. International optometry missions, as they are conducted now, are unjust relics in the public health world. If you're on a mission and you aren't training someone to do something and working with a known NGO or government organization who will be there long-term you are wasting money and time.

Search some of my old posts for more insight.

I already said my goodbyes to this forum but then they gave me internet at my flat(!) so I should be around enough if you have further questions/concerns.

 

[prettygreeneyes]

I already said my goodbyes to this forum but then they gave me internet at my flat(!) so I should be around enough if you have further questions/concerns.

Hey... good to see you stop by! How's everything going in the new country?

 

[Opii]

Hi,
I was missing MattOD's occasionaly "picking on me."
Glad to see that's still possible.
How are you doing?

 

[cpw]

I already said my goodbyes to this forum but then they gave me internet at my flat(!) so I should be around enough if you have further questions/concerns.

he has returned to the "dark side"

welcome back, matt

 

[xmattODx]

he has returned to the "dark side"

welcome back, matt

The dark side is right.

Before we left I was thinking that my 5 months away from the luxuries of home would be a good time to catch up on some reading that I've neglected for so long. I could eat better and lose weight. No more wasting time on the internet!

Lo and behold I couldn't bring more than two books (one I bought at the airport) as we had way too much stuff (text books/notes etc.) and were overweight.

I get here and find out that I have satellite TV and a better internet connection than at home. So I've settled in quite nicely. Work for 7 hours at school go home and work while surfing the internet. If I could just ignore the sporadic gunfire and actually have a full conversation with someone other than my wife (apparently they speak Arabic here. Who knew?) it would be just like being at home.

Back indeed - *sigh.

Well I'm gonna go now since its 11:35 am and my weekend starts tomorrow (Thursday and Friday off you know) and I'm done for today.

Party at my house. Bring blankets. We have no heat.

 

[Opii]

No I would not agree with that.

This is my favorite MattOD line.
Welcome back.