Internationally Trained Physicians: The Myth of Canada

[Highlander455]

Recently released report from Simon Fraser University on marginalization of ITPs in Canada. Systemic barriers seem to make little sense in the face of shortages of physicians Canada is currently facing in all provinces.

https://radiussfu.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/The-Myth-Of-Canada_DIGITAL.pdf

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[canadia22]

Yeah. Not recommended. Also, physicians are not treated very well in the past years. Better to go elsewhere

 

[BritAnaesthesia]

Yeah. Not recommended. Also, physicians are not treated very well in the past years. Better to go elsewhere

It’s interesting you say that when Canada attending pay is insane compared to what we get in the UK.

 

[Maskchamp]

I'm Canadian, but I like the country where I am currently practicing.

But guys, how come, even though there is such a shortage of doctors, and IMG can't get a job? I read the report above, but I mean really really why? Or the person who interviews you is an a** and just doesn't like IMGs, or Canada just doesn't like IMGs, just simply doesn't like them?

If you need so many doctors and Canada is complaining about how they don't have any, and you have qualified doctors who passed the Canadian exams, your exams, ready to work, why no positions? I just don't get it, I probably still won't get it even if someone explains it to me very clearly.

Kinda sad that someone born/raised in Canada his whole life but spends just 4-6 years of his life abroad can't go back.

P.S- Is Quebec easier? Assume you speak very good French.

 

[Highlander455]

Maskchamp.
The Canadia medical regulatory landscape is a complex one, with registration requirements and specific barriers to entering practice varying considerably from province to province.

At least part of the issue is that most Canadian provinces require a minimum of 2 yrs residency training. Many countries only require 1 1/2 yrs of residency; often because they incorporate more clinical training into their medical degrees than Canada does.

Instead of recognizing the equivalence of these different approaches to training, and doing individual assessments of physician experience and skills through a Practice Ready Assessment, Canadian provinces have historically been requiring completion of a second residency. This makes little sense for experienced practitioners as residency is intended to be an early career entry to practice supervised training experience.

Establishing a program of Practice Ready Assessments for experienced IMGs would go a long way toward reducing the current pressure and competition on the Canadian CaRMS residency system and free up more spaces for recent graduates without residencies.

If there are deficits identified in IMG training such as a lack of knowledge of Canadian culture or medical practices, these training gaps can be addressed much more effectively through supervised practice or brief focused bridge training programs.

When it comes to applying for residencies, the AFMC (Association of Faculties of Medicine in Canada) largely controls the application and eligibility requirements through their contract with CaRMS to run the Canadian Match.

Governments have largely taken a "hands off" approach to the Match and the discrimination IMGs face in the Match; in part because the fewer doctors licensed, the lower their provincial health expenses in a socialized medicine environment.

AFMC, in setting their eligibility policies tends to protect their own Canadian Medical Graduates by limiting the number and type of residency spaces available for IMGs. IMGs are only able to apply to about 10% of available residency spaces, mostly in FM or primary care disciplines.

Also, most Canadian provinces require certification by either the Royal College of Phycicians and Surgeons of Canada or the College of Family Physicians of Canada to licence physicians. Both these organizations have some systemic barriers that IMGs must overcome.

Technically, the provincial Colleges of Physicians and Surgeons or Medical Regulatory Authorities can set any criteria they want for licensing. As they face more and more pressure to address the Canadian physician shortage, some are moving to establish Practice Ready Assessments and to no longer require RCPSC or CFPC Certification (eg Nova Scotia). Some provincial governments are increasing residency spots for IMGs. The system is starting to change; but slowly.

What remains is for there to be a shift to a residency system that treats all Canadians equally in the CaRMS residency Match. All CaRMS applicants are required to be Canadian citizens or permanent residents. As such, all should be able to compete for all residency spaces on an equal basis instead of the current restrictions IMGs face. That, would be true equality where the best candidates are selected to progress to residency regardless of where they are trained and educated.

 

[Maskchamp]

Maskchamp.
The Canadia medical regulatory landscape is a complex one, with registration requirements and specific barriers to entering practice varying considerably from province to province.

At least part of the issue is that most Canadian provinces require a minimum of 2 yrs residency training. Many countries only require 1 1/2 yrs of residency; often because they incorporate more clinical training into their medical degrees than Canada does.

Instead of recognizing the equivalence of these different approaches to training, and doing individual assessments of physician experience and skills through a Practice Ready Assessment, Canadian provinces have historically been requiring completion of a second residency. This makes little sense for experienced practitioners as residency is intended to be an early career entry to practice supervised training experience.

Establishing a program of Practice Ready Assessments for experienced IMGs would go a long way toward reducing the current pressure and competition on the Canadian CaRMS residency system and free up more spaces for recent graduates without residencies.

If there are deficits identified in IMG training such as a lack of knowledge of Canadian culture or medical practices, these training gaps can be addressed much more effectively through supervised practice or brief focused bridge training programs.

When it comes to applying for residencies, the AFMC (Association of Faculties of Medicine in Canada) largely controls the application and eligibility requirements through their contract with CaRMS to run the Canadian Match.

Governments have largely taken a "hands off" approach to the Match and the discrimination IMGs face in the Match; in part because the fewer doctors licensed, the lower their provincial health expenses in a socialized medicine environment.

AFMC, in setting their eligibility policies tends to protect their own Canadian Medical Graduates by limiting the number and type of residency spaces available for IMGs. IMGs are only able to apply to about 10% of available residency spaces, mostly in FM or primary care disciplines.

Also, most Canadian provinces require certification by either the Royal College of Phycicians and Surgeons of Canada or the College of Family Physicians of Canada to licence physicians. Both these organizations have some systemic barriers that IMGs must overcome.

Technically, the provincial Colleges of Physicians and Surgeons or Medical Regulatory Authorities can set any criteria they want for licensing. As they face more and more pressure to address the Canadian physician shortage, some are moving to establish Practice Ready Assessments and to no longer require RCPSC or CFPC Certification (eg Nova Scotia). Some provincial governments are increasing residency spots for IMGs. The system is starting to change; but slowly.

What remains is for there to be a shift to a residency system that treats all Canadians equally in the CaRMS residency Match. All CaRMS applicants are required to be Canadian citizens or permanent residents. As such, all should be able to compete for all residency spaces on an equal basis instead of the current restrictions IMGs face. That, would be true equality where the best candidates are selected to progress to residency regardless of where they are trained and educated.

Highlander, thanks so much. Never heard of such a simple yet concise explanation.

Very interesting. But how come though, US doesn't have this problem and the match rate is very fair for IMGs? It's the same system, matching system right?

And this :AFMC, in setting their eligibility policies tends to protect their own Canadian Medical Graduates by limiting the number and type of residency spaces available for IMGs.
Why limit when you need more spaces to overcome the doctor shortage?

 

[Highlander455]

Maskchamp.
Good questions. I believe a big part of why the US doesn't have the same problem is that the NRMP governing body is far more diverse than the AFMC and makes more of an effort to govern in the public interest. From the NRMP website, "The NRMP is governed by a Board of Directors that includes medical school deans, program directors, residents and fellows, and non-physician members."

In contrast, the AFMC governing Board is made up of the deans of the 17 Canadian faculties of medicine and a maximum of 4 public members About - AFMC. No program directors, no residents, no fellows. As an organization, it has no accountability to the public and no public oversight. The AFMC's only responsibility is to its students/graduates. It does not necessarily concern itself with the physician shortage problem other than to advocate for more Canadian medical school seats. IMGs are not really the AFMC's concern.

This is not to say that there aren't biases in the US system against IMGs. US IMGs have only a 60% match rate vs about a 95% match rate for USMGs. The difference is that any biases and barriers in the US tend to be more at the level of the individual residency programs rather than built right into the match policies as in the Canadian Match where there are only about 350 positions dedicated for almost 2,000 IMG applicants, leading to about a 20% IMG Match rate vs 60% in the US.

 

[Maskchamp]

Maskchamp.
Good questions. I believe a big part of why the US doesn't have the same problem is that the NRMP governing body is far more diverse than the AFMC and makes more of an effort to govern in the public interest. From the NRMP website, "The NRMP is governed by a Board of Directors that includes medical school deans, program directors, residents and fellows, and non-physician members."

In contrast, the AFMC governing Board is made up of the deans of the 17 Canadian faculties of medicine and a maximum of 4 public members About - AFMC. No program directors, no residents, no fellows. As an organization, it has no accountability to the public and no public oversight. The AFMC's only responsibility is to its students/graduates. It does not necessarily concern itself with the physician shortage problem other than to advocate for more Canadian medical school seats. IMGs are not really the AFMC's concern.

This is not to say that there aren't biases in the US system against IMGs. US IMGs have only a 60% match rate vs about a 95% match rate for USMGs. The difference is that any biases and barriers in the US tend to be more at the level of the individual residency programs rather than built right into the match policies as in the Canadian Match where there are only about 350 positions dedicated for almost 2,000 IMG applicants, leading to about a 20% IMG Match rate vs 60% in the US.

Highlander,

I see, I understand it better now.
Then those guys are absolutely in no position to complain about the physician shortage in Canada if they do say anything about it. It's ridiculous. I messaged my friend who just moved to NS from Europe as I was curious after this post, and she said she can't find a doctor. It's embarrassing for a country like Canada. I'm born in the 80s and I always believed and heard that it was so open and much less discriminatory, but maybe it was back when I was younger then and not now. I don't know.

But the fact that over 10k Canadian doctors, Canadians, are not working is lunacy and a complete waste. I miss it, but might eventually take the QE and just go for a fellowship for a year or so, just to scratch that itch.

Thanks so much, really great explanation, much appreciated.

 

[Medstart108]

There is a shortage but its a shortage that the government doesn't mind. The shortage saves government dollars and as long as the Canadian public isn't suffering so badly they are willing to vote the government out and make this an election issue, they are unlikely to do much about it.

Its classic socialized medicine, patients are a cost center, there's two ideals for the Canadian government, a long and healthy life followed by a quiet passing in their sleep or more cynically, a quick and cheap death.

More realistically, the government wants to avoid unnecessary care, by making the system such that you can't simply just see a doctor or specialist whenever and get easy 2nd opinions, they reduce what they deem are unnecessary costs. So this shortage in accessing doctors is a problem, but in the government's mind, if young healthy people aren't getting a family doctor because its hard to find one, they don't mind because these young healthy people probably won't base their vote on this issue.

 

[Maskchamp]

There is a shortage but its a shortage that the government doesn't mind. The shortage saves government dollars and as long as the Canadian public isn't suffering so badly they are willing to vote the government out and make this an election issue, they are unlikely to do much about it.

Its classic socialized medicine, patients are a cost center, there's two ideals for the Canadian government, a long and healthy life followed by a quiet passing in their sleep or more cynically, a quick and cheap death.

More realistically, the government wants to avoid unnecessary care, by making the system such that you can't simply just see a doctor or specialist whenever and get easy 2nd opinions, they reduce what they deem are unnecessary costs. So this shortage in accessing doctors is a problem, but in the government's mind, if young healthy people aren't getting a family doctor because its hard to find one, they don't mind because these young healthy people probably won't base their vote on this issue.

Isn't that wrong, morally wise too? They don't mind a shortage of doctors to help they're own citizens? When did Canada become like this?

The Canadian public is suffering badly though, and at least they should know. ERs getting closed and can't find a doctor when one needs one, sounds like suffering quite badly to me.

I practice in a country of socialized medicine and seems to work quite well. Once you graduate from medical school, no matter where in the EU, it is insanely easy to find a job for they're own citizens, even for others although the bureaucracy takes longer.

I had better hopes for Canada, I have no idea when it got like this to not address or even try to address a hugely important issue in any country, probably the most important; healthcare.

🙁

 

[Highlander455]

I think Canadians are getting fed up with lack of access to physicians, and governments are slowly taking steps to address this issue in response to public pressure. Remains to be seen how it will all work out. Much of governments' approach to limiting doctors to contain costs is an outgrowth of the Barer Stoddart report in the early '90s. Here's a recent journal article that discusses this. I don't agree entirely with all the authors say but it's worth reading. Note the correction that it is not the medical Council of Canada that limits IMG access to residency positions.

Physician workforce planning and boom–bust economic cycles: a retrospective on the Barer–Stoddart report

In March 1990, the Federal/Provincial/Territorial Conference of Deputy Ministers of Health commissioned health economists Morris Barer and Greg Stoddart to report on medical resource policy. Facing recession and a public debt crisis, health ministers sought to reduce or restrain health budgets. With

www.cmaj.ca

 

[Medstart108]

Isn't that wrong, morally wise too? They don't mind a shortage of doctors to help they're own citizens? When did Canada become like this?

The Canadian public is suffering badly though, and at least they should know. ERs getting closed and can't find a doctor when one needs one, sounds like suffering quite badly to me.

I practice in a country of socialized medicine and seems to work quite well. Once you graduate from medical school, no matter where in the EU, it is insanely easy to find a job for they're own citizens, even for others although the bureaucracy takes longer.

I had better hopes for Canada, I have no idea when it got like this to not address or even try to address a hugely important issue in any country, probably the most important; healthcare.

🙁

Its morally wrong on the individual level, but if you are just some bureaucrat making decisions, it doesn't feel so morally wrong when you are simply faced with competing spending interests and a public that does not want higher taxes right?

Goes back to that saying "one death is a tragedy, one million deaths is a statistic"

You have to remember, a big reason Canada still has to pay their doctors such a high amount, rather than just training a lot more and paying them less like in Europe, is because there is a freedom of labor movement between Canada and the US, secured through NAFTA and the close cultural ties between the two countries. The US, being a free market system, allows a system that pays doctors more, so Canada has to keep up with those salaries, which raises the costs.

 

[Maskchamp]

I think Canadians are getting fed up with lack of access to physicians, and governments are slowly taking steps to address this issue in response to public pressure. Remains to be seen how it will all work out. Much of governments' approach to limiting doctors to contain costs is an outgrowth of the Barer Stoddart report in the early '90s. Here's a recent journal article that discusses this. I don't agree entirely with all the authors say but it's worth reading. Note the correction that it is not the medical Council of Canada that limits IMG access to residency positions.

Physician workforce planning and boom–bust economic cycles: a retrospective on the Barer–Stoddart report

In March 1990, the Federal/Provincial/Territorial Conference of Deputy Ministers of Health commissioned health economists Morris Barer and Greg Stoddart to report on medical resource policy. Facing recession and a public debt crisis, health ministers sought to reduce or restrain health budgets. With

www.cmaj.ca

Good read, definitely worth it, but I just don't see any changes, I just don't. I'm very pessimistic.

 

[Maskchamp]

Its morally wrong on the individual level, but if you are just some bureaucrat making decisions, it doesn't feel so morally wrong when you are simply faced with competing spending interests and a public that does not want higher taxes right?

Goes back to that saying "one death is a tragedy, one million deaths is a statistic"

You have to remember, a big reason Canada still has to pay their doctors such a high amount, rather than just training a lot more and paying them less like in Europe, is because there is a freedom of labor movement between Canada and the US, secured through NAFTA and the close cultural ties between the two countries. The US, being a free market system, allows a system that pays doctors more, so Canada has to keep up with those salaries, which raises the costs.

Interesting. Canada shouldn't worry about keeping up with the US, and doctors if I remember I paid high but definitely less than US.

Screw those bureaucrats. Not sure who is at the top, but regardless of the reasons, justifications, or anything else, it's very sad to see the current situation with physicians and especially the ton of talent/skills not being used for those reasons. I wish the IMGs the absolute best and time goes by quick. Last 20 years nothing has changed much, and nothing will change, at least significantly.

🙁

 

[Medstart108]

Interesting. Canada shouldn't worry about keeping up with the US, and doctors if I remember I paid high but definitely less than US.

Screw those bureaucrats. Not sure who is at the top, but regardless of the reasons, justifications, or anything else, it's very sad to see the current situation with physicians and especially the ton of talent/skills not being used for those reasons. I wish the IMGs the absolute best and time goes by quick. Last 20 years nothing has changed much, and nothing will change, at least significantly.

🙁

Canada does need to worry about keeping up with the US, the brain drain is a huge issue (now it is in tech and finance and not in medicine though).

In Medicine, historically in the 90s and early 2000s, Canadian doctors left en masse, because US doctors were paid double or more. You can literally see evidence of this today where its not uncommon to find Canadian MDs who jumped ship to the US for residency and never came back.

There is a nice graph somewhere on the internet showing inflation adjusted earnings for Canadian vs US MDs over the years, between the early 2000s and 2012 or so, Canadian MD salaries went up dramatically and that really stemmed the brain drain.

 

[Highlander455]

Recent changes in Ontario. Other provinces including BC are taking similar steps.

SOCASMA

SOCASMA - Bring BC's Doctors Home

socasma.com

 

[Maskchamp]

Hey guys. Has anyone heard of any changes? Or even any good news whatsoever or progress?

 

[RGRGRGRG]

Help needed. Failed Canadian Royal College of physician and surgeons Ophthalmology Boards twice. I'm international physician trained outside canada and US but was approved to sit the exam. But i am struggling to pass. Help and advice are greatly needed and appreciated. I am also keen to join a study group please. Thank you

 

[Highlander455]

Joining a study group is your best bet. Look for a study group with CMGs in it that has access to copies of old RCPSC exam questions. Strange as it may seem, it is an open secret that those old exam questions are out there, and they are considered almost essential to passing for IMGs as so many RCPSC exams contain minutiae, and in particular Canadian minutiae. CMGs are also exposed to many of these exam questions by faculty during their residency training during in training exams. Unlike the US Boards, there is also a real lack of study resources available for RCPSC exams. Sadly, I have no idea how you can connect with a study group. Likely particularly challenging as Opthalmology is such a small cohort.

 

[RGRGRGRG]

Joining a study group is your best bet. Look for a study group with CMGs in it that has access to copies of old RCPSC exam questions. Strange as it may seem, it is an open secret that those old exam questions are out there, and they are considered almost essential to passing for IMGs as so many RCPSC exams contain minutiae, and in particular Canadian minutiae. CMGs are also exposed to many of these exam questions by faculty during their residency training during in training exams. Unlike the US Boards, there is also a real lack of study resources available for RCPSC exams. Sadly, I have no idea how you can connect with a study group. Likely particularly challenging as Opthalmology is such a small cohort.

thank you

 

[Maskchamp]

Guys, any changes on this at all? Ist it getting better? Any reason to stay optimistic or not?

 

[Highlander455]

Depends where you're coming from and where you're wanting to go.

We're seeing expansion of Practice Ready Assessment (PRA) programs in Ontario and other provinces, but there are still some barriers to accessing them and they are not available in French.

A number of provinces are creating pathways for US Board Certified physicians to become registered without doing MCCQE1 exams or having Royal College certification. Ontario's Pathway A is an example.

As for increased IMG access to residency training through CaRMS; little progress. The Society for Canadians Studying Medicine Abroad (SOCASMA) is well along with a court challenge to IMG streaming in CaRMS, claiming it is discriminatory. That may be what is needed to finally trigger changes in CaRMS.

Did you have more specific questions?

 

[Ironspy]

Depends where you're coming from and where you're wanting to go.

We're seeing expansion of Practice Ready Assessment (PRA) programs in Ontario and other provinces, but there are still some barriers to accessing them and they are not available in French.

A number of provinces are creating pathways for US Board Certified physicians to become registered without doing MCCQE1 exams or having Royal College certification. Ontario's Pathway A is an example.

As for increased IMG access to residency training through CaRMS; little progress. The Society for Canadians Studying Medicine Abroad (SOCASMA) is well along with a court challenge to IMG streaming in CaRMS, claiming it is discriminatory. That may be what is needed to finally trigger changes in CaRMS.

Did you have more specific questions?

Which provinces are the easiest to register in for a US trained physician? I’m a board certified adult psychiatrist in the US with >5 years of practice after training. I am not fluent in French

 

[Highlander455]

I would look at Ontario and Pathway A as a first choice CPSO - Alternative Pathways to Registration for Physicians Trained in the United States. Pathway A for US Board Certified physicians leads to a Restricted license. My understanding is there is no time limit on how long you can hold the restricted license, no difference in scope of practice, and no difference in billing. You will appear on the CPSO Register as a CPSO specialist instead of as a RCPSC specialist. If you want full licensure in the future, you would need to become certified with RCPSC. RCPSC has a Pathway for US trained physicians ACGME Route (USA trainees), but as US psychiatry residencies are typically 4 yrs and Canadian RCPSC accredited psychiatry residencies are typically 5 yrs, this may be a barrier to RCPSC Certification.

Second choice would probably be Nova Scotia. CPSNS also has a Pathway for US Board Certified physicians American Board-Certified Physicians: Requirements for Full Licensure - Registration Policies College of Physicians & Surgeons of Nova Scotia. Note as you will have passed USMLE Steps 1, 2 & 3, you shouldn't have to write the LMCC MCCQE1 exam.

Third choice would be BC's pathway for US Certified physicians USA certified | College of Physicians and Surgeons of BC. Again, this is not a full license. I put them third because my understanding is you would not be eligible to access specialist billing codes with this certification. My understanding is in most cases this won't make a big difference, but it may be a consideration. See here for more info: SOCASMA

I highly recommend you check directly with the provincial health colleges/regulatory bodies cited to confirm the accuracy of the above information.

You might also find this SubReddit helpful: https://www.reddit.com/r/CSA_Medicine/

Let me know if you have more questions.

 

[Maskchamp]

Hi Highlander,

I grew up in Montreal, so my native language is French. I would prefer Québec to be honest.

Do you know if it is easier?

 

[Highlander455]

I don't know a lot about the Quebec situation. I do know they are tremendously short of family physicians, like most of Canada. I also know they have a lot of trouble matching graduates to residency programs through the Canadian Residency Matching Service. I understand this is because they insist on running their own credential verification.process that is so slow that it prevents most applicants from matching in their year of graduation. All that said, check out the links below for more info:

International medical graduate (IMG)| Collège des médecins du Québec

Regular permit to practice – By recognition of the equivalence of a M.D. degree | Collège des médecins du Québec

It is possible to obtain regular permit through recognition of the equivalence of a M.D. degree

www.cmq.org

I believe they accept US Residencies, but they may require certification through the College of Family Physicians of Canada for family medicine or the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Canada for other specialties. CFPC does permit certification without examination for applicants who did residencies in the US. RCPSC does recognize US residency training for exam eligibility, but still requires exams. Some US residency programs are shorter than Canadian requirements (eg pediatrics, IM) which can lead to problems getting RCPSC Certification.

If you want to practice in French, but Registration in Quebec is an issue, also consider there are Francophone communities in Northern Ontario and New Brunswick in particular who would probably be delighted to recruit you.

 

[Maskchamp]

Thanks Highlander. I would love to practice in French, but English is fine too.

It seems like things are always complicated.

I wonder why Canadian MD grads are not considered IMG when applying for match in the US, but a specialist in the US needs to go through lots of crap and maybe exams when going into Canada and so in a sense is an IMG.

I'm so pessimistic that Canada, even for Canadians will always restrict doctors, somehow and in someway. Things will never change, even though they are short thousands of doctors. Not sure how they can keep this up with their mentality. Shame.

 

[Highlander455]

Some new pathways opening up in Ontario for US and internationally trained doctors:

https://dialogue.cpso.on.ca/

Also some interesting funding proposals to attract US trained physicians back to Canada:

Chrystia Freeland proposes cash incentives to bring Canadian doctors home

Liberal leadership candidate Chrystia Freeland said she would try to bring Canadian doctors and nurses home, offering them cash incentives.

www.thestar.com

 

[Troglidite]

So I am an IMG from Canada and I have been getting conflicting information about Canada.

For background, I completed medical school at a Caribbean Medical school, I completed a US residency in Internal Medicine and have been an ABIM board certified Internal Medicine attending for 2.5 years. I am a Canadian citizen.

I am currently under the process of obtaining a J1 waiver. With Canada and USA having connections, I am able to work under an H1-B at a facility that also sponsors J1. There have been complications and so I have been looking at the possibility of returning to Canada.

I spoke to a few people at my facility about the process of going back to Canada. I have been told mixed things as it is all second hand and not directly from the individuals that have tried it. I have been told that I would need to complete an additional year of residency as Canadian IM is 4 years vs 3 years in the US. However, I was also told by someone else that I only need to complete temporary supervised program to fill in the gaps which would be less than a year.

I have not been able to reach anyone in person who has gone through this process, I looked through the requirements for Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons under "Specialty Training Requirements in Internal Medicine" which documents the requirements for Internal Medicine training as:

A) Three (3) years of foundational Internal Medicine training
B) One (1) year of advanced Internal Medicine training. This may occur in the following areas, relevant to the objectives of Internal Medicine and approved by the program director
1. Up to one (1) year further residency in Internal Medicine to reflect the resident’s career goals and needs which will include:
1.4 Minimum two (2) blocks in a junior consultant role, (with as much independence as permitted by ability, licensure restrictions and hospital policy in an academic or community setting), in preparation for transition to independent practice

Being an attending for 2.5 years and applying for writing the Royal College Exam, by the time I write it I will have been an attending for 3.5 years. Would this satisfy the requirement for part B?

I read through the CPSO link about alternative pathways which appear lengthy and at that point, I might as well find another job sponsoring J1.

Is there a possibility of not even bothering with the return of service or green card, and just do H1-B jobs, leave the US for a year, then reapply for a 3 year with 3 year extension H1-B?

I am still waiting for return correspondence from Royal College.

Thanks

 

[Highlander455]

The Royal College requirements are often unclear and a bit of a black box. Basically, you have to apply and they will evaluate your credentials and tell you if you are exam eligible, then you have to write their exams. Passing their exams is often a challenge for those who haven't trained in Canada.

The problem with being exam.eligible for the Royal.College is that for IM they basically require 4 yrs of residency and IM training in the US is only 3. There seem to be few options if any for making up that extra year. I believe you will find the Royal College won't accept years of practice as an attending to make up the extra year from part B. They require a year of residency.

All.that said, if you are US Board Certified in IM you should find it straightforward to apply for CPSO Registration under Pathway A for US trained physicians and should be able to practice as a CPSO specialist in IM without RCPSC Certification.

I'd contact CPSO directly about this vs trying to navigate their website. Also, while you would initially be registered with CPSO in a Restricted class, your scope of practice would be no different than that of a full independent license. Further, CPSO will now let you upgrade to a full unrestricted license after 5 yrs of practice.

Finally, BC is in the process of changing their bylaws to allow full registration for US trained physicians.

See following links:

CPSO - Alternative Pathways to Registration for Physicians Trained in the United States

www.cpso.on.ca

Registration | College of Physicians and Surgeons of BC (see USA Certified tab)

 

[lifeofpi1]

The Royal College requirements are often unclear and a bit of a black box. Basically, you have to apply and they will evaluate your credentials and tell you if you are exam eligible, then you have to write their exams. Passing their exams is often a challenge for those who haven't trained in Canada.

The problem with being exam.eligible for the Royal.College is that for IM they basically require 4 yrs of residency and IM training in the US is only 3. There seem to be few options if any for making up that extra year. I believe you will find the Royal College won't accept years of practice as an attending to make up the extra year from part B. They require a year of residency.

All.that said, if you are US Board Certified in IM you should find it straightforward to apply for CPSO Registration under Pathway A for US trained physicians and should be able to practice as a CPSO specialist in IM without RCPSC Certification.

I'd contact CPSO directly about this vs trying to navigate their website. Also, while you would initially be registered with CPSO in a Restricted class, your scope of practice would be no different than that of a full independent license. Further, CPSO will now let you upgrade to a full unrestricted license after 5 yrs of practice.

Finally, BC is in the process of changing their bylaws to allow full registration for US trained physicians.

See following links:

CPSO - Alternative Pathways to Registration for Physicians Trained in the United States

www.cpso.on.ca

Registration | College of Physicians and Surgeons of BC (see USA Certified tab)

Thank you for answering these questions.

I was wondering what the timeline looks like for a IMG graduate U.S. IM + fellowship trained physician to obtain licensing for someone who has not taken the MCCQEs? I understand there may be some variability across provinces.

Thank you in advance.

 

[Highlander455]

Sorry, for that info you'd have to contact the provincial colleges themselves like CPSBC, CPSO, CPSNB. Please share what you discover.

 

[lifeofpi1]

Sorry, for that info you'd have to contact the provincial colleges themselves like CPSBC, CPSO, CPSNB. Please share what you discover.

Per CPSBC: "As you are a Canadian Citizen and don’t have to worry about the work permit process, your application could take 6-8 weeks after receiving a file manager, to be licensed"

Per CPSO (per phone call): 4-6 months from submission to licensure for Pathway A.

Did not contact CPSNB.

 

[Highlander455]

Per CPSBC: "As you are a Canadian Citizen and don’t have to worry about the work permit process, your application could take 6-8 weeks after receiving a file manager, to be licensed"

Per CPSO (per phone call): 4-6 months from submission to licensure for Pathway A.

Did not contact CPSNB.

Thanks for posting. CPSBC wait sounds pretty reasonable. Surprised CPSO takes that long, but hopefully they can move more quickly. Good luck if you decide to make the move. Please keep us posted on how it goes.

 

[Highlander455]

Per CPSBC: "As you are a Canadian Citizen and don’t have to worry about the work permit process, your application could take 6-8 weeks after receiving a file manager, to be licensed"

Per CPSO (per phone call): 4-6 months from submission to licensure for Pathway A.

Did not contact CPSNB.

By the way, both The Society for Canadians Studying Medicine Abroad (SOCASMA) and Internationally Trained Physicians of Ontario (ITPO) are valuable supports if you run into roadblocks in the process.