Internship/Residency with research?

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luke77

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  1. Pre-Medical
Hey guys,
I'm currently in the very introductory stages of exploring the possibility of an Md/PhD program. I love the idea of the combination of the two degrees, although I'm a bit turned off by the whole 7/8 year program thing...anyways, I'm curious if an internship/fellowship following medical school is undertaken by pretty much all Md/PhD students, even those not planning on practicing clinically? For instance, an Md/PhD planning on entering an academic setting, or even working in pharma - are residencies/postdocs required, or do some people enter work right after school?

Thanks,
Luke
 
I'm just finishing an MD/PhD program and will enter residency in a couple of months.

Virtually all MD/PhD graduates enter a residency (> 95%). The reason is simple -- w/o post-graduate training you cannot practice medicine. Thus, your MD is useless. In the rare instances that somebody skips residency it is usually b/c (a) their research took of and they actually received an offer for a tenure-track position, (b) personal reasons, or (c) decide to do a post-doc only.

Entering pharma is certainly a viable option for an MD/PhD grad but it will not happen before you complete a residency (at the least). A fresh grad basically has no post-graduate training (no residency for MD, no post-doc for PhD) and is not particularly marketable.

With that said there are many residency programs that specifically accomodate MD/PhD needs. For instance, Internal Medicine offers so-called "fast-tracking" where one can purse an abbreviated IM residency (2 years) followed by a guaranteed fellowship and 2-year post-doc.

As an aside, do not commit to an MD/PhD program unless you are 100% certain you want to do research. It is too long a path for you to do otherwise. You do not need a PhD to do either basic or clinical research and, if you are still interested after med school, you can do some post-grad training to gain more experience.
 
Gfunk6 has it pretty spot on. As someone entering a "fast-track" program in IM/Onc next year I've done a bunch of research on this program. Only thing I would change is that the post-doc is usually 3 years. For me, going into Med Onc (no Heme if I can avoid it) I'll be doing 2y of IM, 1y of Onc and then a 3y post-doc. The reason for the 3 years of post-doc is that, in order to fulfill the ABIM requirements for clinical exposure time, you need those 3 years of time doing continuity clinic during your post-doc. ABIM requires 20 months of clinical contact during the 2 years. This can include all inpt. rotations (including specialty wards if your program has them) and ambulatory rotations. It does NOT include consult months or research. Which essentially means that you'll only have 1-2 mos per year (depending on how your program does vacations) to do consult electives, the rest of the time, you'll be on the floor/unit.

There are some obvious downsides. The IM stuff is not so much shortened as it is compressed. Basically what you're getting rid of is the 8-10 months of electives/research months that most IM residents do during PGY2/3. For me, that's fine since I'm not that interested in spending time doing Derm and Rheum rotations. You will also have no time to do research doing the first 3+ years, until you're finished w/ your clinical work.

The total time of the program depends on what specialty you choose. Anything that's usually a 2yr fellowship becomes 1y, most 3yr fellowships become 18 mos and Cards (I think) is 2yr, all followed by the post-doc.

Now that I spent all this time typing, you can find the official dirt at:
http://www.abim.org/cert/respath_pp.shtm

Leaving IM for a minute, I can think of 3 other specialties where research is easy to do (there are probably a lot more that I don't know of). Most academic Gen Surg programs now require 2y of research. This goes a long way towards explaining why upper level surgery residents are so miserable b/c their 5y program is now 7. Pathology is another place where there's generally room to do significant research within the 4 years. A classmate of mine is entering Columbia's AP/Neuropath/Research program. On paper, it's 2y AP, 1y NP and 1y Research. In reality, in order to get enough good research to have a K award and be marketable as a junior faculty or above you need to do a couple more years of research. I have a friend who just finished this with about 18 extra months of research. Finally, most academic Derm programs have a 2+2 option where, after prelim year, instead of doing 3y of clinical derm (with 6-12 mos research depending on the program), you do 2y of clinical and 2 of research. Then you bag the whole thing and do Botox on Park Ave. for $1.2 million a year. I have another classmate headed down that road this year.

Hope this was helpful. Good luck with the road ahead.

BE
 
Thanks guys, I appreciate the guidance.
 
brooklyneric said:
Leaving IM for a minute, I can think of 3 other specialties where research is easy to do (there are probably a lot more that I don't know of). Most academic Gen Surg programs now require 2y of research. This goes a long way towards explaining why upper level surgery residents are so miserable b/c their 5y program is now 7. Pathology is another place where there's generally room to do significant research within the 4 years. A classmate of mine is entering Columbia's AP/Neuropath/Research program. On paper, it's 2y AP, 1y NP and 1y Research. In reality, in order to get enough good research to have a K award and be marketable as a junior faculty or above you need to do a couple more years of research. I have a friend who just finished this with about 18 extra months of research. Finally, most academic Derm programs have a 2+2 option where, after prelim year, instead of doing 3y of clinical derm (with 6-12 mos research depending on the program), you do 2y of clinical and 2 of research. Then you bag the whole thing and do Botox on Park Ave. for $1.2 million a year. I have another classmate headed down that road this year.

And psych! I'm doing a psych residency with a research track next year. Most psych residencies are 2 years inpatient, then 2 years outpatient with little-to-no call, with the PGY4 year being 90% elective time. So many of the academic programs have a research track where you can do some research in the PGY3 year, and pretty much full-time research in the PGY4 year. Some of them have training grants so you can have a funded PGY5 research fellowship spot on top of that if you want, during which time you can work on writing a K award if you haven't already done so as a PGY4...

:laugh: at the Botox on Park Ave :laugh:
 
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