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Interventional Orthopedics vs Interventional Pain

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nvrsumr

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Weird to have a whole web page devoted to- no other docs with his Exact training- being able to perform his special injections with his secret sauce properly.

There are 30 docs doing "regenerative medicine" within 30 miles of their practice. Must be feeling the heat
 
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SpineBound

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Reminds me of Dr John Brinkley who implanted goat testicles into his patients to cure impotence. No one ever came back claiming it didn't work because it only worked on "intelligent patients"

The Story of John R. Brinkley
 
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DrCommonSense

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Weird to have a whole web page devoted to no other docs with his Exact training being able to perform his special injections with his secret sauce properly.

There are 30 docs doing "regenerative medicine" within 30 miles of their practice. Must be feeling the heat

I don't think it would be that hard to take an ultrasound course to differentiate specific anatomical points in the rotator cuff or elsewhere in the shoulder if it has been shown that MSC injections directly specifically at an exact point proved more beneficial than just a shoulder injection.

Im skeptical of these claims that you need that level of precision.
 

drpainfree

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He's basically trying to sell his course. That's all! It doesn't mean he knows what he's doing, but he has to pretend he does to make a point.
 
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DrCommonSense

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He's basically trying to sell his course. That's all! It doesn't mean he knows what he's doing, but he has to pretend he does to make a point.

Correct, hence I linked his courses to "teach" how to "properly do Ultrasound to inject" stem cells.

Notice how he has far more than one course to learn form as well. It becomes a whole series that will cost thousands upon thousands of dollars.
 

SSdoc33

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look, the guy probably is very good at what he does. and, he is right, most "spine" guys arent all that great an ultrasound-guided injections. it is a different skill set -- especially for a lot of the soft-tissue stuff.

just dont be a d!ck about it, especially when your stem cells treatments are snake-oil at this point
 
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nvrsumr

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Good at offering multi-level supraspinous ligament stem cell injections to correct idiopathic scoliosis for 15k

Seriously, US needle guidance is used by thousands of docs. It is not hard to be competent.
 

clubdeac

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The guy's probably right but wow he's likes himself a little much
 

IN2B8R

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Ultrasound guided precise injections & diagnostic ultrasonography are important. I worked with a mayo trained PM&R guy who did tons of these. Problem is, outcomes were similar to other injections. Obviously, everything is on a case by case basis: if you misdiagnose and just inject, sure, you won't get a good, lasting outcome. I do agree, though, this guy is too full of himself and FOS.


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Doctodd

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Sigh.....not surprisingly, some docs get defensive and hurl insults. I've seen it somewhere before.
 

GH253

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I'll "up my game" when you up your evidence, and oh... give each and every one of my patients $5000 cash to pay for a stem cell injection.

his cultured stem cell product is currently in phase II for low back discs
 

SeniorWrangler

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True regenerative medicine would be a wonderful thing. I'm skeptical that anybody knows how to do it.
If you're taking cash for stem cell treatments, you shouldn't get offended when people are skeptical... extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
 

drusso

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DrCommonSense

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GH253

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Thats behind Mesoblast who is already Phase 3 who he has knocked.

Interesting how that works?

I would be a lot more interested to see a refutation of his argument.
 
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GH253

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Different indications too. Mesoblast claims their product regenerates nucleii in DDD patients. Centeno has always said injecting stem cells into discs doesn't work reliably and cautions against entering discs to inject anything. brtxDISC is only intended to reduce disc bulges and Centeno has produced MRI evidence of his success with this over the years.
 
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DrCommonSense

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Mesoblast claims they can regenerate nucleii in DDD patients with stem cells, which Centeno has always said doesn't work (at least not reliably). BRTX only claims its product reduces disc bulges and Centeno has posted MRI evidence of this over the years.

Yet Mesoblast are a number of years along the process further than Centeno in terms of RCT trials considering they are already in Phase 3 vs Phase 2 for Centeno. Centeno might have posted "evidence" somewhere online but hasn't gone as far with formal trials as Mesoblast in the end of the day. So his bragging about being the most "advanced" in stem cells seems highly exaggerated to me.
 

GH253

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Just because Mesoblast is further along in the approval process doesn't make their product more advanced or credible. The economics of regulation put autologous cells at a vast disadvantage because their much higher manufacturing costs mean products based on them will be less financially successful and are tenuous investments regardless of how well they work. Meanwhile it's doubtful the Mesoblast product would exist at all if United States v. Regenerative Scienes had been decided in the latter's favor. Centeno developed his culture technique half a decade before companies like Mesoblast pressured the FDA to regulate cells as drugs so they could box out competition for off the shelf unit doses of allogenic cells. BTW Centeno and Regenexx aren't affiliated with BRTX, he just sold them the rights to his method of cell culture.

Yet Mesoblast are a number of years along the process further than Centeno in terms of RCT trials considering they are already in Phase 3 vs Phase 2 for Centeno. Centeno might have posted "evidence" somewhere online but hasn't gone as far with formal trials as Mesoblast in the end of the day. So his bragging about being the most "advanced" in stem cells seems highly exaggerated to me.
 
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DrCommonSense

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Just because Mesoblast is further along in the approval process doesn't make their product more advanced or credible. The economics of regulation put autologous cells at a vast disadvantage because their much higher manufacturing costs mean products based on them will be less financially successful and are tenuous investments regardless of how well they work. Meanwhile it's doubtful the Mesoblast product would exist at all if United States v. Regenerative Scienes had been decided in the latter's favor. Centeno developed his culture technique half a decade before companies like Mesoblast pressured the FDA to regulate cells as drugs so they could box out competition for off the shelf unit doses of allogenic cells. BTW Centeno and Regenexx aren't affiliated with BRTX, he just sold them the rights to his method of cell culture.

Why would it be more expensive to manufacture centeno's product for a study compared to mesoblast? Don't get why using autologous cells would be more expensive than manipulated ones? I would figure the mesoblast is more expensive.
 
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