Interview weekends-- where to stay

[zoistaffy]

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Hey all-- I'm not sure if there is a thread on this, but I apologize if there is and I'm contributing to the clutter. I am wondering what people think/ know/ have heard, etc. on how the majority of schools do housing for candidates for Clinical Psychology PhD programs. I know candidates can get set up with a host if they would like-- I also have heard some programs don't have this option. If anyone has any details on this, that would be great. (Specifically, Milwaukee, heehee).

Thanks in advance

 

[IvoryTower2013]

Hey all-- I'm not sure if there is a thread on this, but I apologize if there is and I'm contributing to the clutter. I am wondering what people think/ know/ have heard, etc. on how the majority of schools do housing for candidates for Clinical Psychology PhD programs. I know candidates can get set up with a host if they would like-- I also have heard some programs don't have this option. If anyone has any details on this, that would be great. (Specifically, Milwaukee, heehee).

Thanks in advance

Schools seem to do this differently--my previous program did not offer candidates the option to stay with a student, but they covered the cost of a local hotel if you stayed with a roommate. My current program only offers the stay with a student option. When I interviewed at Milwaukee (clinical psych phd) several years ago, I stayed with a student. At another university, I chose to find my own hotel instead of staying with a student. Staying with a current student can be very beneficial in that you get ample opportunity to talk about the program (and perhaps ask about your potential advisor if you are paired with a student from their lab). You also will have a friendly face at the interview events and might more easily get introduced to other current students at those events. I found it a little less stessful, however, to have my own hotel room where I knew I would be less nervous, sleep better, and have time to myself to look over materials and prepare for interviews.

 

[postitnote]

I definitely recommend staying with a graduate student if you are offered the option. There are downsides, particularly if you are at all socially anxious, but generally those are outweighed by the benefits of getting additional information about the program, your lab, the social climate, etc.

If you have received an interview, you may have also been directed to a coordinator who can answer logistical questions. You may want to just shoot that person an email and ask about "lodging options". It would likely be fine to specifically ask if graduate students will be housing prospective students but if you don't want to be that forward, asking about lodging options would hopefully open that up as an option.

Good luck!

 

[bluebluesky]

I think this is an interesting question to discuss.
I agree with the benefits of staying with students. However, there is a potential downside, which is that I felt like being spied on or something, especially as an international student. I was in a couple interviews before in a land probably without many foreign students. I felt that my differences may have been a factor in not getting offers in these two schools in the end. I also felt that one of the hosts was very biased and hostile against me and my differences.

So my advisor said that if I get interviews this year, I can choose to stay in a hotel. I just realized that I will not choose this option simply because I am already broke after this application cycle.

I think the admission committee should just ignore the hosts' opinions when making admission offers because it's just not fair and it makes us nervous during our stay because you are being watched 24-7!

I definitely recommend staying with a graduate student if you are offered the option. There are downsides, particularly if you are at all socially anxious, but generally those are outweighed by the benefits of getting additional information about the program, your lab, the social climate, etc.

If you have received an interview, you may have also been directed to a coordinator who can answer logistical questions. You may want to just shoot that person an email and ask about "lodging options". It would likely be fine to specifically ask if graduate students will be housing prospective students but if you don't want to be that forward, asking about lodging options would hopefully open that up as an option.

Good luck!

 

[Ollie123]

I think this is an interesting question to discuss.
I agree with the benefits of staying with students. However, there is a potential downside, which is that I felt like being spied on or something, especially as an international student. I was in a couple interviews before in a land probably without many foreign students. I felt that my differences may have been a factor in not getting offers in these two schools in the end. I also felt that one of the hosts was very biased and hostile against me and my differences.

So my advisor said that if I get interviews this year, I can choose to stay in a hotel. I just realized that I will not choose this option simply because I am already broke after this application cycle.

I think the admission committee should just ignore the hosts' opinions when making admission offers because it's just not fair and it makes us nervous during our stay because you are being watched 24-7!

While I can sympathize, I strongly disagree with the last part. Part of admissions is based on social skills, and I think its important that anyone who has contact with the students be able to voice their concerns. You are being watched, but I've brought up here before that I think people turn it into more than it is (I know I did). Now that I'm on the other side, I can safely say that we're not counting how many times your pinky twitches. We're making sure you possess basic social skills, and don't down a liter of vodka before you go to sleep. You may overestimate the "power" that a host has in the admissions process. At least here, unless the student does something outlandishly inappropriate its probably not going to have a major impact on the admissions decision. Our opinions may be taken into consideration if we think someone would be endlessly frustrating to work with, but at least the faculty here seem to want "examples" in those situations.

It sounds like you may have had some bad luck with where you applied, assuming whatever you said was true and was not just your perceptions. Trust me, regardless of where you are coming from, as long as you are polite and friendly than I think the interactions with your host are unlikely to have a significant impact on admissions in most cases.

 

[postitnote]

While I can sympathize, I strongly disagree with the last part. Part of admissions is based on social skills, and I think its important that anyone who has contact with the students be able to voice their concerns. You are being watched, but I've brought up here before that I think people turn it into more than it is (I know I did). Now that I'm on the other side, I can safely say that we're not counting how many times your pinky twitches. We're making sure you possess basic social skills, and don't down a liter of vodka before you go to sleep. You may overestimate the "power" that a host has in the admissions process. At least here, unless the student does something outlandishly inappropriate its probably not going to have a major impact on the admissions decision. Our opinions may be taken into consideration if we think someone would be endlessly frustrating to work with, but at least the faculty here seem to want "examples" in those situations.

It sounds like you may have had some bad luck with where you applied, assuming whatever you said was true and was not just your perceptions. Trust me, regardless of where you are coming from, as long as you are polite and friendly than I think the interactions with your host are unlikely to have a significant impact on admissions in most cases.

I totally agree with Ollie. I think the host can provide invaluable information that is relevant to the program. I have seen/heard a few examples where an applicant behaved totally inappropriately to the host or host's family and that got passed on indicating questionable judgment on the part of the applicant. Small idiosyncrasies either don't get passed on or are disregarded by the faculty member and do not impact admissions.

I am very sorry that you (bigbluesky) had a negative experience and I can understand your desire to want to stay in a hotel after that. I hope that this round goes better for you.

 

[zoistaffy]

Hum...

I originally asked the question so I could plan for travel so I really am not concerned with being watched.

There are many ways one could look at this. I would prefer staying with a "native" because as a candidate, you also are looking for the right fit. You need to know if you like the city, the emotional climate, the students, the whole shibang, because the working enironment across universities varies dramatically. As a person interested in finding the right place to pursue a PhD I want to know if a particular place is a good fit, and meeting and spending time with the graduate students is a good way to gauge how comfortable you are with their lifestyle, and how much you would like to associate yourself with it. So I am all for staying with a student or affiliate of the school. That said, I don't think who you stay with makes any sort of difference in terms of whether you will be accepted.

The reason I say this, is because professors and grad students don' really interact the same way as grad students do, and I think most professors, especially at the more competitive universities, steer away from gossip. Talking about whether a particualar candidate goes to bed too early or too late is total gossip. If someone is drinking a quart of vodka before bed, they probably aren't applying to PhD programs. I worked a huge competitive university, and the candidates that the hosts liked were the fun and outgoing people (because the students that agree to be hosts are usually more outgoing and social), but the people the profs want are those that will publish. So being a fun cool normal person means nothing. Case in point, this girl, Veronica (not her real name) stayed with Lynne, my friend, a grad student a few years ago when she was interviewing. Veronica was nothing but rude and bitchy to Lynne, and Lyne to this day talks about how odd Veronica was.

Veronica made it into the program no problem. The fact of the matter is she was such a strong researcher, that she did not need to kiss her hosts but, and I don't think any of the faculty ever asked Lynne what she was like or what her lifestyle/ habits were like. Didn't matter. All that matters is how well you can be a grad student, and that entails doing well in class, being great in praticum and comfortable around protected populations (like child abused people, drug addicts, battered women, homeless, etc), and most importantly, your drive to publish. Whether your host likes you or not means nothing. I truely believe this, and I think it is good for you, as a candidate to know whether the current grad students match you in terms of motivation and career goals. Makes a huge differnce in how happy you will be at that school

 

[postitnote]

Hum...

I originally asked the question so I could plan for travel so I really am not concerned with being watched.

My second response was not directed toward you. My assumption was that you would be comfortable staying with a student. Someone else just expressed concern so I think a few people thought it was important to address this concern. I personally believe that your post is a really great example of what Ollie (and subsequently I) was saying, in the grand scheme of things, unless you do something completely inappropriate, your behavior with graduate students (hosts or not) will have little impact on your admission status. There are cases where it can have an impact, but those are the exception, certainly not the norm.

p.s. I would argue that professors and graduate students both like a bit of gossip, not just related to admissions. 😀

 

[bluebluesky]

Thanks for your feedback.
I think I am still confused about the procedure as to how the hosts' opinions reach to the committee. For instance, do they get to sit down with the committee and talk about the students they host? Or do this privately with the individual POIs? And how do other fellow graduate students' opinions get passed on?
Or only when the applicant has done something very inappropriate that the hosts get to write on a secret sheet and hand it to the faculty?
Just curious as I think the procedure matters a lot as it's confusing to think about how little is little enough to be ignored and how big is big enough to be reported. It's simply too subjective.

While I can sympathize, I strongly disagree with the last part. Part of admissions is based on social skills, and I think its important that anyone who has contact with the students be able to voice their concerns. You are being watched, but I've brought up here before that I think people turn it into more than it is (I know I did). Now that I'm on the other side, I can safely say that we're not counting how many times your pinky twitches. We're making sure you possess basic social skills, and don't down a liter of vodka before you go to sleep. You may overestimate the "power" that a host has in the admissions process. At least here, unless the student does something outlandishly inappropriate its probably not going to have a major impact on the admissions decision. Our opinions may be taken into consideration if we think someone would be endlessly frustrating to work with, but at least the faculty here seem to want "examples" in those situations.

It sounds like you may have had some bad luck with where you applied, assuming whatever you said was true and was not just your perceptions. Trust me, regardless of where you are coming from, as long as you are polite and friendly than I think the interactions with your host are unlikely to have a significant impact on admissions in most cases.

 

[psich]

Thanks for your feedback.
I think I am still confused about the procedure as to how the hosts' opinions reach to the committee. For instance, do they get to sit down with the committee and talk about the students they host? Or do this privately with the individual POIs? And how do other fellow graduate students' opinions get passed on?
Or only when the applicant has done something very inappropriate that the hosts get to write on a secret sheet and hand it to the faculty?
Just curious as I think the procedure matters a lot as it's confusing to think about how little is little enough to be ignored and how big is big enough to be reported. It's simply too subjective.

I hope you don't get too bogged down by the "what-ifs" and potential avenues through which a POI may find out about your stay with a host. There's not really much you can do about how they find out, if they do at all. I think the main gist of the thread is that being socially appropriate and not doing anything outlandish is what they are looking for.

 

[Ollie123]

The whole interview process is very subjective, but that's just the nature of it. They want to see if you are someone they would like to work with for the next 5 or so years.

There's no formal rating process specifically for hosts anyplace that I have ever heard of. Some places get formal feedback from graduate students as a whole and I think nearly all graduate advisors will ask for their impression of the candidates - at least mine always has and I know others here do too. I blew in one candidate who was incredibly rude, and made it clear she didn't really care about the majority of research going on and was not a team-player, and had just been incredibly rude and childish throughout the interview process (inappropriate comments, very demanding, very unprofessional conduct, etc.). Turns out she had been equally rude and abrasive to pretty much everyone, including faculty, and I suspect was off the list of potentials as soon as she left the door.

I think the most common way here is probably a discrete email to the POI describing what took place if the person does something truly awful. I only know of a couple occasions it has happened, and they were all extreme (people making racist/sexist/etc. comments, person sharing explicit sexual stories during the grad student dinner, etc.). These are not really grey areas, and I'm not sure there is any reason to quantify it - if it happens at all, that alone is probably sufficient reason to deny admission to someone. Within labs it is perhaps a bit more subjective and the advisor may ask for an opinion of a candidate, and it may get a bit more detailed (i.e. this person was extremely quiet and I didn't get to know them at all, this person was really irritating, etc.). We'll often share positive things too...if someone seems really motivated, etc. I had one guy stay with me and we spent over an hour talking about his work, and it was VERY clear he knew his stuff better than most. I made sure to pass that along.

The process is subjective but you better get used to it. Everything is subjective. Applying for practica is subjective, applying for internship is subjective, post-docs are subjective, faculty jobs are subjective....grant reviews and manuscript reviews are even subjective.

With the exception of the latter two (at least directly), at every step your social skills will play a part - that's just a fact of life. There's a reason networking is important. Again, it doesn't mean you have to manipulate people into thinking you are god's gift to the world. It does mean that if you come across as a nice, open, genuine and intelligent person to everyone you speak to, it will likely work in your favor.

 

[PsychScience]

Thanks for your feedback.
I think I am still confused about the procedure as to how the hosts' opinions reach to the committee. For instance, do they get to sit down with the committee and talk about the students they host? Or do this privately with the individual POIs? And how do other fellow graduate students' opinions get passed on?
Or only when the applicant has done something very inappropriate that the hosts get to write on a secret sheet and hand it to the faculty?
Just curious as I think the procedure matters a lot as it's confusing to think about how little is little enough to be ignored and how big is big enough to be reported. It's simply too subjective.

The way a host's opinions factor into the whole process varies considerably by school. Each school usually has a unique admission process, even if there may be some commonalities. In fact, at my university, it can even be varied from year to year depending on the DCT. One year, student hosts just sent an informal email to the individuals POI to give their impressions (and this was just for a few POIs, not all of them were interested). Another year, all student hosts were asked to fill out a rating form for the person they hosted. On the rating form were questions that were purely related to the graduate student atmosphere (i.e. How well do you think this person would fit in with current grad students? How interested did they seem in the program? Would you want to be a peer with this individual, etc..)

On the whole, however, the opinions of the student host in our program have historically mattered very little in the final decision unless something terribly outrageous happened (not sure how this happens on a professional interview weekend, but it does!!). When the rare outrageous problems happen, typically the individual(s) involved contact the DCT privately to inform her of the situation.

 

[BiopsychStudent]

While I can definitely see the value in staying with student hosts: Great opportunity to learn about the program and its culture, will it be to your detriment in the admissions process if you don't? I gather there are often receptions and other events which give you the opportunity to meet the students.

Personally, I think its a lot less stressful if you can go back to your hotel room at night to relax and prepare yourself without having to worry about socializing with your host, too.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

While I can definitely see the value in staying with student hosts: Great opportunity to learn about the program and its culture, will it be to your detriment in the admissions process if you don't? I gather there are often receptions and other events which give you the opportunity to meet the students.

Personally, I think its a lot less stressful if you can go back to your hotel room at night to relax and prepare yourself without having to worry about socializing with your host, too.

I can only speak for my own program, but as far as I know, whether or not you stay with a student host has no impact on your admission decision. I can also say that way back when I went through interviews myself, my student hosts explicitly told me that they had no official input into the admission decision, and thus we shouldn't stress ourselves about trying to constantly impress them.

 

[bluebluesky]

Thanks for all you guys' input. It's really helpful to know.

Although you said that it matters very little, I have to wonder how you knew that it mattered little. If a student rates you very low or lower than others on any of the questions you raised, I think the POI may change the opinions somewhat just because of this.

I would say I see it a little too odd. I agree that it's totally subjective and maybe we are just like a product to them but it's a little too cruel to do a secret rating as a host. If we knew it as an applicant, we can't be reassured totally. At least I will be very self conscious and don't feel at ease at all time until you go to bed alone. I guess although it may not matter a lot, but if it's not for money, I would really rather stay in a hotel than being judged by someone like your host. Although you can also say that you can judge them too, honestly, I won't decide not to go to a school/program just because of one person that you don't like.

I guess in general it's especially different for international students. What if we see someone who is not used to be with people different from them? I am not sure if I get my point across here but I think I particularly think one of the hosts I used to have was very judgmental about people's differences. And if I keep my mouth shut then they will say that I am too quiet.

I know different places have different people and generally they are nice but well, I have to say I don't like the secret rating system. It's like putting you into a trap. But I know...maybe we don't have the right to ask for "fairness" and I have too high of a standard. I guess I will be satisfied with for the hosts, only report something very inappropriate instead of giving ratings of their likes or dislikes about the person. I mean...it's not necessarily reliable and it's disadvantegous for people from different cultures (especially if you happen to live with someone who is very conservative). I know there are not many international students here but I can only speak for my own experiences.

The way a host's opinions factor into the whole process varies considerably by school. Each school usually has a unique admission process, even if there may be some commonalities. In fact, at my university, it can even be varied from year to year depending on the DCT. One year, student hosts just sent an informal email to the individuals POI to give their impressions (and this was just for a few POIs, not all of them were interested). Another year, all student hosts were asked to fill out a rating form for the person they hosted. On the rating form were questions that were purely related to the graduate student atmosphere (i.e. How well do you think this person would fit in with current grad students? How interested did they seem in the program? Would you want to be a peer with this individual, etc..)

On the whole, however, the opinions of the student host in our program have historically mattered very little in the final decision unless something terribly outrageous happened (not sure how this happens on a professional interview weekend, but it does!!). When the rare outrageous problems happen, typically the individual(s) involved contact the DCT privately to inform her of the situation.

 

[PsychScience]

Thanks for all you guys' input. It's really helpful to know.

Although you said that it matters very little, I have to wonder how you knew that it mattered little. If a student rates you very low or lower than others on any of the questions you raised, I think the POI may change the opinions somewhat just because of this.

I would say I see it a little too odd. I agree that it's totally subjective and maybe we are just like a product to them but it's a little too cruel to do a secret rating as a host. If we knew it as an applicant, we can't be reassured totally. At least I will be very self conscious and don't feel at ease at all time until you go to bed alone. I guess although it may not matter a lot, but if it's not for money, I would really rather stay in a hotel than being judged by someone like your host. Although you can also say that you can judge them too, honestly, I won't decide not to go to a school/program just because of one person that you don't like.

I guess in general it's especially different for international students. What if we see someone who is not used to be with people different from them? I am not sure if I get my point across here but I think I particularly think one of the hosts I used to have was very judgmental about people's differences. And if I keep my mouth shut then they will say that I am too quiet.

I know different places have different people and generally they are nice but well, I have to say I don't like the secret rating system. It's like putting you into a trap. But I know...maybe we don't have the right to ask for "fairness" and I have too high of a standard. I guess I will be satisfied with for the hosts, only report something very inappropriate instead of giving ratings of their likes or dislikes about the person. I mean...it's not necessarily reliable and it's disadvantegous for people from different cultures (especially if you happen to live with someone who is very conservative). I know there are not many international students here but I can only speak for my own experiences.

You are correct, in can be a very subjective process, but it can also be a useful process. Think about it for a minute, if somebody comes to stay with you, and is horribly rude and mean to you, but puts on a good face for the professors, wouldn't you want to tell someone about it? Remember, as graduate students we have a real vested interest in ensuring that people who are not a good fit for our program don't matriculate. However, in the end, this is truly up to the faculty and/or the admissions committee. Not to get on a soapbox about this issue, because I think you make good points about it being stressful and potentially unreliable, but I think sometimes the good can outweigh the downsides. It is an interview weekend after all, and the end goal is for you to get to know the students better and for current students to get to know you better as well. The school that will be a good fit for you will love you, and you it (hopefully 🙄)

I know the opinions of hosts matter very little in the end because graduate students are also involved in the admission process (which is also good to know, because it might be very likely that you will be interviewed by a graduate student, and you might want to prep additional questions just for these people).

Last point, just as an FYI it was not a "secret rating". To my knowledge, when people have hosted for our university we usually explain that professors will sometimes ask us our opinions about the people who stay with us. In fact, our DCT even tell interviewees this as well. Its all very direct. More often than not though, this really works to the interviewees advantage. I think we are focusing on the fact that the interviewee is going to potentially negative ratings. However, you can learn sooo much from staying with a student host and often times, the hosts love talking about the school and hosting people. Usually, the opinions of the hosts are positive and not negative. In fact, I have hosted every year for the last 5, and not in one year have I met an interviewee that I did NOT like. They have all been pretty amazing, and I told the faculty that.