Interviewer said, "Being too altruistic will get you eaten alive."

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Arbor Vitae

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So an interviewer basically said to me that, "coming into the field of medicine being completely altruistic will get you eaten alive." I was talking about the financial side of things between insurance, research, industry, salaries, universal healthcare, etc, and I was definitely arguing in support of universal healthcare. I simply feel people deserve it after previously having to deal with a lack of insurance myself. I've also worked in both big pharma/medical device research and academic research, and know how all these things factor into the insurance cost, and ultimately patient cost. I keep trying to figure out exactly what he meant by this statement. Any thoughts?

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do you not believe him? How many CEOs are altruistic?



I think with the way things are money wise (cost of supplies, time, paying staff) you need a nice balance. Overly altruistic people will get fired from large hospital systems for giving things away and people in private practice will likely go under
 
In my opinion, assuming I understand what happened correctly, this could have been nothing more than the interviewer not being a supporter of universal healthcare. This also has a political aspect to it, so he could have just not agreed with your opinion on it. Not quite sure, but you definitely have to be careful with what you say during an interview!
 
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Maybe he thinks giving away too many freebies or doing too much charity work will lead to your downfall. He could have meant if you are too nice and/or naive, your going to get stepped all over and taken advantage of.

There needs to be a balance. If your doing too much pro bono work your financials are likely to go under. You have to be practical as well.
 
Maybe he thinks giving away too many freebies or doing too much charity work will lead to your downfall. He could have meant if you are too nice and/or naive, your going to get stepped all over and taken advantage of.

Yea, that's the way I took it. I guess I'm more open-mined than he was, and I was just merely discussing how to change the system for the better. There is tremendous waste in all these industries and too many people sucking out profit of it. I feel like the researchers, laborers, nurses, and physicians should all get their salaries for doing the dirty work. I just feel that any industry funneling into healthcare like pharma, biomedical, insurance, etc., should be regulated so that they can't suck out huge profits to investment bankers. I'm not trying to sound like a communist here, but if we are thinking of healthcare as an industry and patients as customers, I think something is wrong with that.
 
Yea, that's the way I took it. I guess I'm more open-mined than he was, and I was just merely discussing how to change the system for the better. There is tremendous waste in all these industries and too many people sucking out profit of it. I feel like the researchers, laborers, nurses, and physicians should all get their salaries for doing the dirty work. I just feel that any industry funneling into healthcare like pharma, biomedical, insurance, etc., should be regulated so that they can't suck out huge profits to investment bankers. I'm not trying to sound like a communist here, but if we are thinking of healthcare as an industry and patients as customers, I think something is wrong with that.

Healthcare is a product, just like an iPad or a banana. The provision of healthcare is an exchange between two consenting parties. You as a physician provide the product and in return receive payment. That's all there is to it.
 
Healthcare is a product, just like an iPad or a banana. The provision of healthcare is an exchange between two consenting parties. You as a physician provide the product and in return receive payment. That's all there is to it.

No.

OP, Being a doctor is a balancing act. You have to simultaneously engage a patient during their most vulnerable time and at the same time maintain enough distance to make clear decisions and be prepared if things don't end well.

Why are all the pre-meds jaded on this forum?
 
No.

OP, Being a doctor is a balancing act. You have to simultaneously engage a patient during their most vulnerable time and at the same time maintain enough distance to make clear decisions and be prepared if things don't end well.

Why are all the pre-meds jaded on this forum?

Those things you listed are part of the transaction. Individual physicians can do certain things (appear to be compassionate/empathetic, not bill for after-hours calls, be involved in the community) for personal satisfaction or, more commonly, to boost sales. The sale of more products, especially those with higher profit margins, leads to increased revenue and profit for the physician. These can be used to acquire material goods such as homes and cars.
 
You clearly missed the point. Why should the U.S. healthcare industry make profits for some Swiss investment banker who is pulling the strings at these companies?
 
So an interviewer basically said to me that, "coming into the field of medicine being completely altruistic will get you eaten alive." I was talking about the financial side of things between insurance, research, industry, salaries, universal healthcare, etc, and I was definitely arguing in support of universal healthcare. I simply feel people deserve it after previously having to deal with a lack of insurance myself. I've also worked in both big pharma/medical device research and academic research, and know how all these things factor into the insurance cost, and ultimately patient cost. I keep trying to figure out exactly what he meant by this statement. Any thoughts?

I think a lot of it has to do with how emotionally involved you get with your patients' situations. In a sense, the interviewer is right: if you get wound up in every horrible patient story (ie, inability to afford care), you'll end up emotionally ragged in no time.

Developing proper boundaries and striking a good balance between compassion and self-preservation is incredibly difficult. How do you meet your patient's need to know that you are personally invested in their care, while at the same time remaining detached from their situation?

It's hard. It's definitely an art form, and one I haven't mastered. Some professionals deal with it by completely shutting off the switch that allows them to become stricken by the situations patients find themselves in. I think we all know the type I'm talking about. They're good diagnosticians, but they're not good people. They're not the type of doctor most people want to see. What's more, it's pretty much impossible to flip that "caring" switch on and off at will. If you completely check out emotionally at work, you're likely to be a zombie at home as well.

I do a lot of crisis counseling (victims of domestic violence and sexual assault). This September, I'll have been doing it for four years. It's impossible *not* to be profoundly affected by the stories you hear. I deal with it by taking good care of myself (long baths, shopping trips, pizza and a movie in bed, etc.) for the week-or-so after I take a shift. I check-in with a counselor at the Center I volunteer with regularly to decompress, talk about what I'm having trouble letting go of, etc. Counselors regularly do this--it would be great if doctors formed "check-in" groups as well. Do they do that anywhere?

Speaking to the other part of the interviewer's feedback (re: altruism), I can attest to that as well. I did a huge childhood obesity project. I got it off the ground, got international media coverage, won a ton of awards, etc. But my plan had a fatal flaw: I'd assumed that everyone would be as excited about my plan as I was, and just as willing to invest the time and money to make it happen.

Turns out, everyone was excited about my idea, but I was pretty much the only one willing to pump money into the project, or work for free to make it happen. I invested our family savings into the project (about $10k), as organizations kept promising money that never materialized. I don't regret the decision for a minute. Helping those kids is worth more to me than just about anything. But now, I'm so burned out on childhood obesity that it hurts my brain to think about it. And that's a shame.

All of this is to say, set boundaries. And stick with them. You have personal experience with struggling to pay for medical care, and have a heart for underserved populations (which is to be commended). Decide what you're willing to do to make a positive change in the world. Lobby the legislature? Being a vocal community proponent for change? See a certain number of patients gratis? Devote 'x' amount of time to seeing patients in a free clinic? Write grants? Make yourself available to mentor young doctors who share your ideals?

I'm so, so, so sorry for posting a novel in your thread. As someone who has been chewed up and spit out by an uncontainable desire to help others, I hope sharing some of my experience has helped you. ;)

Oh, want to know the domestic violence call that still sticks with me, years later? I got a call from a young intern in an ER. He had recently seen a young woman who had gotten the hell beaten out of her by her boyfriend. The ER staff pulled out all the stops to help her. The police were there. Crisis response unit (includes officers trained to respond to domestic violence calls) was called in. They stalled her in the ER for hours, and hours, and hours, trying everything they could to keep her from going back to her boyfriend.

She didn't want help. She left with her abuser.

The intern who called me had followed the girl/boyfriend back to the dorm room where they were staying. When he called, you could hear people screaming, throwing things, loud crashes, etc. (over the phone and through the door). The doctor was trembling. He begged me to do something. Anything. Couldn't I do something to help her? Wasn't there *anything* he could do? He was a doctor! He could fix this! There had to be something.

After listening quietly, I did everything I could to sooth his nerves and calm him. Finally, I told him that, sometimes, people make bad decisions. She made a choice. There wasn't anything he could do. He'd done everything he could, and she still chose to do something dumb. You can't make yourself responsible for other people's choices.

I could hear him choking back tears. At that point, he realized he wasn't calling for the victim/patient, but himself. He needed someone to tell him that it was okay to let this one go. And that's what I did.

I hope that story helps you understand the importance of striking that balance between investment in positive patient outcomes and caring for your patients and maintaining your own sanity. Sanity is a good thing. I think. :smuggrin:
 
I'm using this as a response if one of my interviewers happens to ask why I didn't do more community service.
 
You clearly missed the point. Why should the U.S. healthcare industry make profits for some Swiss investment banker who is pulling the strings at these companies?

Don't those investment bankers help fund research into drugs, treatments, and the like?

It's likely the interviewer was referring not to financial altruism but emotional altruism. It's entirely feasible for a physician to dedicate him/herself totally to patients, and to neglect other areas of life. This is unhealthy - both for one's family (if one has one) and for oneself. Before going into medical training and practice, you should have certain areas of your life that are non-negotiable. Despite what some may think, medicine is not about martyrdom.
 
Maybe you could benefit visiting other countries with different healthcare systems and see if the US would be ready to pay the price of universal healthcare.

The price? You mean lower health care costs, less waste, and better health and social outcomes?
 
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Healthcare is a product, just like an iPad or a banana. The provision of healthcare is an exchange between two consenting parties. You as a physician provide the product and in return receive payment. That's all there is to it.

Sweet sassy molassy, thank you!
 
Maybe you could benefit visiting other countries with different healthcare systems and see if the US would be ready to pay the price of universal healthcare.

Mexico has a universal healthcare system called Seguro Popular which covers most medical costs of 150 different diseases including the 6 most common types of cancer but ironically they have not yet included strokes as one of the covered diseases yet. Certain things are 100% free such as high risk pregnancy. If a pregnant woman ends up in the ICU from preeclampsia and requires to stay there for 1 month with multiple blood transfusions, whether or not she survives the mexican government covers the full cost free of charge as long as her friends and relatives blood mandatory voluntary blood donations relative to the amount of blood transfusions she required during her stay.

Other diseases such as most major surgery is heavily subsidized, you only pay for the x-rays, certain meds and a small fee for the hospital stay. An open appendectomy can cost you only 150 dollars believe it or not. If you want elective laparoscopic surgery, you would have to rent the equipment which costs an additional 300 dollars.

Foreigners living legally in Mexico cannot get Seguro Popular and there's very few loopholes you can jump around to qualify. You can however jump through the hoops if you have IMSS or ISSSTE which are other healthcare systems. If your spouse is a teacher you could get enviable ISSEMYM.

The price of cheap healthcare is that you no longer have unlimited tests or state-of-the-art experimental drugs. The mexican government is waiting impatiently for the Gardasil vaccine patent to be freed to be able to mass produce it as a generic. This year they are giving Gardasil to a very small amount of underage female volunteers and see if they can afford to expand the program. Most public hospitals don't have CAT scanning machines because the machines are so expensive. Doctors in Mexico only earn 10% of what American doctors earn which is enough for a middle class lifestyle, but it's very common to see attendings have 2 or 3 full-time jobs never seeing their family.

On the plus side, med school in Mexico won't cost you 250,000 dollars and 4 additional years of undergrad doing pre-req courses and obligatory volunteer work. Gotta love starting med school at age 18. :thumbup:

I'm not sure if Mexico would be the best comparison, as the Mexican government and economy is way less financially endowed than the U.S. I'd think it would be more fair to look at countries like France, Germany, Japan or England, which have a more comparable economy and functioning systems. Check out this video if you get a chance :) http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/teach/sickaroundtheworld/ Of course there are tradeoffs between state-of the art treatments and covering basic needs. The question is, do you want to benefit the greater amount of people overall or serve individually? It isn't easy when you treat individuals.
 
So an interviewer basically said to me that, "coming into the field of medicine being completely altruistic will get you eaten alive." I was talking about the financial side of things between insurance, research, industry, salaries, universal healthcare, etc, and I was definitely arguing in support of universal healthcare. I simply feel people deserve it after previously having to deal with a lack of insurance myself. I've also worked in both big pharma/medical device research and academic research, and know how all these things factor into the insurance cost, and ultimately patient cost. I keep trying to figure out exactly what he meant by this statement. Any thoughts?

"If you don't stand for something you will fall for anything"

Anyways, I agree with you, corporation should not suck all the money in any industry. The interviewer probably has conservative political views.
 
If the interviewer was talking about emotionally, I completely agree. I'm extremely soft hearted and am doing a volunteer rotation on a floor that is primarily elderly people with no family who are in a lot of pain from surgery. This whole rotation every time I leave the hospital I'm on the verge of tears so it's something I need to work on because if I don't fix it, yes, I believe I will be eaten alive. Later on down the road, it could easily turn into me giving everything emotionally and having nothing left. You have to take care of yourself, and too much of a good thing definitely could ruin you.
 
You clearly missed the point. Why should the U.S. healthcare industry make profits for some Swiss investment banker who is pulling the strings at these companies?
What do these companies provide that people are willing to pay them money? How much does it cost to develop a new drug or medical device? Why would anyone invest in the research and development of these new drugs and medical devices, putting their personal money at risk of loss, if there was no profit to be gained if successful?
 
I'm not sure if Mexico would be the best comparison, as the Mexican government and economy is way less financially endowed than the U.S. I'd think it would be more fair to look at countries like France, Germany, Japan or England, which have a more comparable economy and functioning systems. Check out this video if you get a chance :) http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/teach/sickaroundtheworld/ Of course there are tradeoffs between state-of the art treatments and covering basic needs. The question is, do you want to benefit the greater amount of people overall or serve individually? It isn't easy when you treat individuals.

Totally man! A fair comparison will be to Canada, France, Japan and switzerland. All these countries rank higher in the WHO rank list, which is an indication of well their systems are doing in comparison to other industrialized countries.
 
"If you don't stand for something you will fall for anything"

Anyways, I agree with you, corporation should not suck all the money in any industry. The interviewer probably has conservative political views.
Corporations are just a legal structure of people. Why is that inherently bad?

Most doctors' practices are corporations, guess we're just sucking money too.
 
Corporations are just a legal structure of people. Why is that inherently bad?

Most doctors' practices are corporations, guess we're just sucking money too.

I am referring to big corporations, that are so big to influence policies to increase their profit. This, in general, affects many and benefits only a few.
 
I think a lot of it has to do with how emotionally involved you get with your patients' situations. In a sense, the interviewer is right: if you get wound up in every horrible patient story (ie, inability to afford care), you'll end up emotionally ragged in no time.

Developing proper boundaries and striking a good balance between compassion and self-preservation is incredibly difficult. How do you meet your patient's need to know that you are personally invested in their care, while at the same time remaining detached from their situation?

It's hard. It's definitely an art form, and one I haven't mastered. Some professionals deal with it by completely shutting off the switch that allows them to become stricken by the situations patients find themselves in. I think we all know the type I'm talking about. They're good diagnosticians, but they're not good people. They're not the type of doctor most people want to see. What's more, it's pretty much impossible to flip that "caring" switch on and off at will. If you completely check out emotionally at work, you're likely to be a zombie at home as well.

I do a lot of crisis counseling (victims of domestic violence and sexual assault). This September, I'll have been doing it for four years. It's impossible *not* to be profoundly affected by the stories you hear. I deal with it by taking good care of myself (long baths, shopping trips, pizza and a movie in bed, etc.) for the week-or-so after I take a shift. I check-in with a counselor at the Center I volunteer with regularly to decompress, talk about what I'm having trouble letting go of, etc. Counselors regularly do this--it would be great if doctors formed "check-in" groups as well. Do they do that anywhere?

Speaking to the other part of the interviewer's feedback (re: altruism), I can attest to that as well. I did a huge childhood obesity project. I got it off the ground, got international media coverage, won a ton of awards, etc. But my plan had a fatal flaw: I'd assumed that everyone would be as excited about my plan as I was, and just as willing to invest the time and money to make it happen.

Turns out, everyone was excited about my idea, but I was pretty much the only one willing to pump money into the project, or work for free to make it happen. I invested our family savings into the project (about $10k), as organizations kept promising money that never materialized. I don't regret the decision for a minute. Helping those kids is worth more to me than just about anything. But now, I'm so burned out on childhood obesity that it hurts my brain to think about it. And that's a shame.

All of this is to say, set boundaries. And stick with them. You have personal experience with struggling to pay for medical care, and have a heart for underserved populations (which is to be commended). Decide what you're willing to do to make a positive change in the world. Lobby the legislature? Being a vocal community proponent for change? See a certain number of patients gratis? Devote 'x' amount of time to seeing patients in a free clinic? Write grants? Make yourself available to mentor young doctors who share your ideals?

I'm so, so, so sorry for posting a novel in your thread. As someone who has been chewed up and spit out by an uncontainable desire to help others, I hope sharing some of my experience has helped you. ;)

Oh, want to know the domestic violence call that still sticks with me, years later? I got a call from a young intern in an ER. He had recently seen a young woman who had gotten the hell beaten out of her by her boyfriend. The ER staff pulled out all the stops to help her. The police were there. Crisis response unit (includes officers trained to respond to domestic violence calls) was called in. They stalled her in the ER for hours, and hours, and hours, trying everything they could to keep her from going back to her boyfriend.

She didn't want help. She left with her abuser.

The intern who called me had followed the girl/boyfriend back to the dorm room where they were staying. When he called, you could hear people screaming, throwing things, loud crashes, etc. (over the phone and through the door). The doctor was trembling. He begged me to do something. Anything. Couldn't I do something to help her? Wasn't there *anything* he could do? He was a doctor! He could fix this! There had to be something.

After listening quietly, I did everything I could to sooth his nerves and calm him. Finally, I told him that, sometimes, people make bad decisions. She made a choice. There wasn't anything he could do. He'd done everything he could, and she still chose to do something dumb. You can't make yourself responsible for other people's choices.

I could hear him choking back tears. At that point, he realized he wasn't calling for the victim/patient, but himself. He needed someone to tell him that it was okay to let this one go. And that's what I did.

I hope that story helps you understand the importance of striking that balance between investment in positive patient outcomes and caring for your patients and maintaining your own sanity. Sanity is a good thing. I think. :smuggrin:

That's an awesome post. Detachment, at least in a minimal form, is definitely crucial to maintaining a healthy lifestyle when you're dealing with patients in those kids of circumstances.

Just wondering...are you make or female? Haha
 
I am referring to big corporations, that are so big to influence policies to increase their profit. This, in general, affects many and benefits only a few.
Does it benefit only a few? Most of these large corporations not only A) provide numerous job opportunities, but B) are components of millions and millions of people's retirement portfolios (and not just the rich, but the average everyday joe).

I'd say growth and increasing profits benefit a lot of people.
 
You know who is completely altruistic?

Jesus.

:D
 
Does it benefit only a few? Most of these large corporations not only A) provide numerous job opportunities, but B) are components of millions and millions of people's retirement portfolios (and not just the rich, but the average everyday joe).

I'd say growth and increasing profits benefit a lot of people.

Quick example:

When trying to change the type of food served in public school, mostly junk food that's contributing to the obesity problem in America, the coca-cola and frozen food companies lobbied congressmen to not allowed this. Why? Because they will lose profit. Again: benefit a few, and affecting many.

Note: I don't recall the specifics but it was in a local newspaper in California, do I can't provide sources for this
 
Quick example:

When trying to change the type of food served in public school, mostly junk food that's contributing to the obesity problem in America, the coca-cola and frozen food companies lobbied congressmen to not allowed this. Why? Because they will lose profit. Again: benefit a few, and affecting many.

Note: I don't recall the specifics but it was in a local newspaper in California, do I can't provide sources for this
I think your problem is with Congress rather than corporations, since they ultimately decided against it.

What exactly did they do wrong? Oh they didn't want the government restricting who can and cannot buy their completely legal product?

And actually, the benefit of the shareholders and employees is far greater than the # of students in the school who MIGHT purchase their product.
Keep trying to demonize those corporations.
 
What do these companies provide that people are willing to pay them money? How much does it cost to develop a new drug or medical device? Why would anyone invest in the research and development of these new drugs and medical devices, putting their personal money at risk of loss, if there was no profit to be gained if successful?

You are, indeed, correct. In fact, from what you're saying here, it's almost as if drugs are only developed if they're profitable with no regard to the public good. It's no wonder research budgets and drug patents have been falling drastically in the past few decades! The obvious solution to this problem is to cut NIH funding for further research into less profitable drugs, because shareholders' profits (or executive's schemes to dupe the shareholders) are the foundation of our country and constitution; not the welfare of our citizens.

Does it benefit only a few? Most of these large corporations not only A) provide numerous job opportunities, but B) are components of millions and millions of people's retirement portfolios (and not just the rich, but the average everyday joe).

I'd say growth and increasing profits benefit a lot of people.

Another correct post. Many of our jobs and retirement funds are in the good stewardship of the executives in big businesses. As we've seen in the 1920s, 1980s, 1990s, 2004-2007, and just a few weeks ago with JP Morgan Stanley, these people are well suited to their jobs and are only interested in doing these jobs well and NOT bilking their accounts and shareholders for their own salaries, bonuses, and prestige. The market corrects for this well enough on its own and we don't see the problems repeated over and over again and the general public does not suffer indirectly from this system.

Not only do we need fewer regulations on banking and business practices, but we should take a page from the wildly successful Secretary of Treasury Andrew Mellon: "liquidate labor, liquidate stocks, liquidate farmers, liquidate real estate… it will purge the rottenness out of the system. High costs of living and high living will come down. People will work harder, live a more moral life. Values will be adjusted, and enterprising people will pick up from less competent people." Thanks to this thinking, the United States entered a true Golden Age in the 1930s.
 
I think your problem is with Congress rather than corporations, since they ultimately decided against it.

What exactly did they do wrong? Oh they didn't want the government restricting who can and cannot buy their completely legal product?

And actually, the benefit of the shareholders and employees is far greater than the # of students in the school who MIGHT purchase their product.
Keep trying to demonize those corporations.

Are you kidding? You don't see corporations at fault here? By the way, these are public schools, so the schools are providing the "junk food." Millions of kids that attend public schools are being affected by this. Heart disease, diabetes, high blood pressure are consequences of the obesity problem in America
 
Are you kidding? You don't see corporations at fault here? By the way, these are public schools, so the schools are providing the "junk food." Millions of kids that attend public schools are being affected by this. Heart disease, diabetes, high blood pressure are consequences of the obesity problem in America

No I'm really not kidding and you're not being objective.

Who decides what is sold in a public school system? Local government. There is not a nationwide public school system, hence why you see such variety. If you disagree with their decision, then elect new officials who align with your ideology.

Are schools forcing students to imbibe Coca-Cola? Are there no alternatives available? Can you not bring your own drink for lunch?

Obesity is an issue that isn't solely caused by Coca-Cola being available for purchase.

Coca-Cola for example is sold worldwide.
 
No I'm really not kidding and you're not being objective.

Who decides what is sold in a public school system? Local government. There is not a nationwide public school system, hence why you see such variety. If you disagree with their decision, then elect new officials who align with your ideology.

Are schools forcing students to imbibe Coca-Cola? Are there no alternatives available? Can you not bring your own drink for lunch?

Obesity is an issue that isn't solely caused by Coca-Cola being available for purchase.

Coca-Cola for example is sold worldwide.

Let me explain to you how this works: you see, the corporations finance congress, and then congress goes out...and the corporations sit in their...in their corporation buildings, and...and, see, they're all corporation-y...and they make money.
 
Healthcare is a product, just like an iPad or a banana. The provision of healthcare is an exchange between two consenting parties. You as a physician provide the product and in return receive payment. That's all there is to it.

Worst analogy ever. Unless you think that people wake up one day and decide that they're bored with their current iHealth and want to upgrade to the new Cancer. Sounds plausible enough. Plus, the prices for surgery and chemo are all over billboards everywhere - it's extremely easy to budget for these things in advance. Totally just like bananas.
 
Worst analogy ever. Unless you think that people wake up one day and decide that they're bored with their current iHealth and want to upgrade to the new Cancer.

FAIL. The doctor is providing treatment, not the cancer.
 
FAIL. The doctor is providing treatment, not the cancer.

Wow, you sure got me there. Zing!

My point was that you can pick your gadgets but you generally can't pick your diseases. The things that necessitate medical care. You do, uh, understand that, right?

For example - if a guy from the Apple store came to your bed and told you that you needed an iPad and it would cost $20,000, that would be pretty weird. Now if it's a surgeon and an operation, it's pretty standard. You still follow?
 
Wow, you sure got me there. Zing!

My point was that you can pick your gadgets but you generally can't pick your diseases. I thought that was obvious.

Does it matter? How is healthcare essentially different from an ipod? Consider this carefully, because A does not have the right to B's labor, even if B is a doctor.
 
Does it matter? How is healthcare essentially different from an ipod? Consider this carefully, because A does not have the right to B's labor, even if B is a doctor.

Do you call the Apple Store if a car hits you on the sidewalk?

Anyway, why is it incumbent upon me to prove that ipods and healthcare aren't the same thing? Isn't that begging the question? I don't mind answering it, I just don't understand how this became the default position.
 
Be as cunning as a snake but as innocent as a dove.
 
No I'm really not kidding and you're not being objective.

Who decides what is sold in a public school system? Local government. There is not a nationwide public school system, hence why you see such variety. If you disagree with their decision, then elect new officials who align with your ideology.

Are schools forcing students to imbibe Coca-Cola? Are there no alternatives available? Can you not bring your own drink for lunch?

Obesity is an issue that isn't solely caused by Coca-Cola being available for purchase.

Coca-Cola for example is sold worldwide.

Well I do recall congress legislating on what it considers vegatables for schools and that's the problem. If we followed the constitution and kept the federal government out of schools and healthcare then we wouldn't have to worry about lobbyist corrupting the political system.

Sidenote: Did Lobo actually suggest that the lobbyist was the problem and not the politician who sold the trust given to him by the voters to the highest bidder? I mean really which party to this transaction is wrong? The lobbyist makes no excuse as to why he's there, the congressman on the other hand is supposed to vote the will of the people.

There was a time when the US health care system was the envy of the world and affordable. The private "fee for service" health care model spurred the greatest care and advances in health care the world has ever seen. And geuss what, it was done withouth the federal government regulating (read: paying) it or coming between patients and doctors. Hundreds of billions of dollars are wasted each year because of federal regulation on healthcare.

I strongly support a fee for service/catastrophic insurance model and the reduction of government regulation and legal liability to bring down costs. I think a private system that integrates healthcare providers with the community and charities is the only way to take care of the poor without violating the principles of freedom.

The sooner we get the federal government out of healthcare the sooner things will start getting better. The problem is getting the government to give us our money back too. This is the problem with letting the federal government grow so large. It becomes a money/power hungry machine whose only purpose is to ensure its survival. A radical change has to occur before we see radical results.
 
Does it matter? How is healthcare essentially different from an ipod? Consider this carefully, because A does not have the right to B's labor, even if B is a doctor.

Do you call the Apple Store if a car hits you on the sidewalk?

Anyway, why is it incumbent upon me to prove that ipods and healthcare aren't the same thing? Isn't that begging the question? I don't mind answering it, I just don't understand how this became the default position.

Health care is a service, it is a service much like any other commercial service. One does not have a constitutional right or entitlement to health care. The altruistic nature of medical professionals certainly strives to provide care to everyone but it is not a fundamental human right. Medicine as we know it would not exist without profit, risk, and reward. In that way it is a commercial service or product. It cannot become an entitlement either; if that were to happen the rewards for doing well would evaporate, quality of care would go down, and a lot of people here would say the problem was we just didn't go far enough, we just didn't let the government really work! (cuz the feds are SO good at everything they do.)
 
No I'm really not kidding and you're not being objective.

Who decides what is sold in a public school system? Local government. There is not a nationwide public school system, hence why you see such variety. If you disagree with their decision, then elect new officials who align with your ideology.

Are schools forcing students to imbibe Coca-Cola? Are there no alternatives available? Can you not bring your own drink for lunch?

Obesity is an issue that isn't solely caused by Coca-Cola being available for purchase.

Coca-Cola for example is sold worldwide.
Fair enough. I still think that big corporations influencing corrupt politicians is detrimental for society in general. I do think politicians are at fault by not protecting public interest but rather their own pocket and big corporations.
 
Healthcare is a product, just like an iPad or a banana. The provision of healthcare is an exchange between two consenting parties. You as a physician provide the product and in return receive payment. That's all there is to it.

Who's that chick in your avatar? Anna Kournikova?
 
I must agree with the interviewer. There are ways to give back (as I do myself) but Universal Healthcare will destroy this country and the medical system. Doctors will leave and care will deteriorate. I'm sorry, but I will not stay in the United States and practice medicine if our President doesn't think about what he's doing and goes through with this "Obamacare", and of course gets ruled on by the supreme court as constitutional (which is impossible!). I'm sorry that you have had financial issues in your life, but nobody automatically deserves health care. Sure, if you're about to die then myself or any other doctor isn't going to turn you away. But you're going to have to pay for it afterwards, because it should not be on the shoulders of the people that have enough money to pay for health care and taxes and work for their hard earned money. Just because they have more of it, doesn't mean you should take it away from them for people with less of it. Universal Health Care is a VERY socialistic idea. Not communistic, but socialistic.

All in all, i'm VERY surprised they asked you about this at the interview. If I were you I would have done 1 of 2 things: 1) Said no comment or 2) Beat around the bush but favor more the side of no universal health care because most doctors/med students/pre-med students like yourself are usually not going to be in favor of that.
 
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All in all, i'm VERY surprised they asked you about this at the interview. If I were you I would have done 1 of 2 things: 1) Said no comment or 2) Beat around the bush but favor more the side of no universal health care because most doctors/med students/pre-med students like yourself are usually not going to be in favor of that.

Have you spent much time on these boards? Many of the posters here believe healthcare is one of the chief responsibilities if the federal bureaucracy. (Although I have yet to meet one doctor who supports the so-called PPACA.)
 
Have you spent much time on these boards? Many of the posters here believe healthcare is one of the chief responsibilities if the federal bureaucracy. (Although I have yet to meet one doctor who supports the so-called PPACA.)

Wait, what? I thought the federal government was supposed to purchase products for us!
 
Wait, what? I thought the federal government was supposed to purchase products for us!

No, no, you have it mixed up: we purchase products from them.

Subsidized healthcare, housing, and cell phones? ***Ring*** "That'll be two votes, please."
 
I think it's very interesting that favorable views toward PPACA diminish as people go through medical training. I've seen an evolution in my time and classmates. If they did a study I am positive favorability would go from premeds/preclinical med students > senior med students > senior residents > attendings (excluding med school admissions officers who love it for some reason) > old attendings. I'm actually really surprised to see a premed on here who is not in favor of it.

Forbes had a nice little article on MD views on PPACA (http://www.forbes.com/sites/sallypi...obamacare-is-no-remedy-for-u-s-health-woes/2/).

The fact is that back in the day you may have been able to open shop, have little overhead and need fewer assistants (like we need now for billing, coding, insurance, EMR), and could collect enough from your patients to visit some folks who would give you a blanket and meatballs for payment. Today docs are being scrutinized by the government, then nickel and dimed by insurance companies on top. To make matters worse, there's an influx of undocumented immigrants who aren't paying anything for healthcare. ObamaCare will not cover these people and in fact is cutting funding to hospitals who foot the bill for them (DSH funding). This is part of the reason why many physicians - especially ER and trauma/emergency reconstructive surgeons - feel the bill will cause many hospitals to go out of business. On top of this, society has become increasingly litigious and the cost associated with practicing "defensive medicine" is huge (not to mention the psychological burden to physicians and nurses).

All in all, these are just some factors that have lead to docs getting more and more disgruntled. I think many would love to do more pro-bono work, but only if they could live comfortably while doing it.

Also, whoever mentioned putting better regulations on biotech and pharma industries (who are the real winners in the healthcare market) hit the nail on the head. Specifically in biotech where extensive marketing and selling can be done for devices (that may go for > 1mil / device) that do not have any substantial evidence to support their use. Hip replacement and medical imaging technologies are two high-profile examples.
 
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