Interviewers all on a level field?

[Homer Simpson]

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From UC Irvine:
"The interview is a required integral, part of the admissions process. Prior to the interview, your faculty and student interviewer will receive a copy of the front page, personal statement, and experiences section from your AMCAS Application. Although the interviewer’s impressions and recommendations are an important part of the selection process, the decision regarding admission is based on the review of your entire application by the Admissions Committee."

I remember reading something similar from UMich.

 

[Towelie]

From UC Irvine:
"the decision regarding admission is based on the review of your entire application by the Admissions Committee."

This is what they do everywhere.

 

[Law2Doc]

I don't appreciate his posts

Dude, you are free to ignore my posts, and to believe whatever you want. But watch the TOS violations.

 

[HumbleMD]

From UC Irvine:
"The interview is a required integral, part of the admissions process. Prior to the interview, your faculty and student interviewer will receive a copy of the front page, personal statement, and experiences section from your AMCAS Application. Although the interviewer's impressions and recommendations are an important part of the selection process, the decision regarding admission is based on the review of your entire application by the Admissions Committee."

I remember reading something similar from UMich.

I remember having a similar conversation with Robert Ruiz, dean of admissions at UMich. At Michigan, at least, he was saying that students often over-emphasize the importance of the interview. He said this was to protect against a schmalzer/charmer getting in but not being able to handle the rigors of medical school, while a very prepared applicant may be merely a bit of an introvert (I'd agree, some of the most caring people I know are introverts).

Broadly, I see the interview more as a deductive rather than inductive step. A bad interview can quickly result in a rejection, but a shining interview will get you through the cut, to let your stats, ECs, and LORs shine.

 

[Towelie]

Dude, you are free to ignore my posts, and to believe whatever you want. But watch the TOS violations.

I don't know what TOS stands for, but I don't see how I am violating anything. All I am saying is that you seem to disagree with people simply for the sake of disagreeing with them. You should stop posting, or at least slow your posts down, because you're wasting the time of everyone who goes through them.

I wish I could ignore your posts--but a few naive people on these forums seem to be actually taking the absurdities that you post seriously, and I feel some sort of obligation to tell them how ridiculous your arguments are.

 

[Law2Doc]

I'd agree, some of the most caring people I know are introverts.

This is a personal service field. You have to interact with patients daily, and most diagnosis is going to be based on what you can get the patient to tell you.. That means you need to be able to schmaltz and charm them into telling you stuff they might not feel is any of your business. Thus, like it or not, the interview tests for a very real skillset. This is one you can improve with practice.

 

[Law2Doc]

I wish I could ignore your posts--but a few naive people on these forums seem to be actually taking the absurdities that you post seriously, and I feel some sort of obligation to tell them how ridiculous your arguments are.

I seem to remember you being the one who said Penn was the most dangerous school in the country.🙄

 

[Towelie]

I seem to remember you being the one who said Penn was the most dangerous school in the country.🙄

Good one. And I corrected that statement.

You need to do something other than post on SDN. Try, for example, going one day without posting. Then two. Then, maybe, try a week. Eventually, you will find that you can have a satisfying life withoug posting on SDN every five seconds.

 

[HumbleMD]

This is a personal service field. You have to interact with patients daily, and most diagnosis is going to be based on what you can get the patient to tell you.. That means you need to be able to schmaltz and charm them into telling you stuff they might not feel is any of your business. Thus, like it or not, the interview tests for a very real skillset. This is one you can improve with practice.

Wow Law, you do realize you just proved Towelie correct? Just for my own information (so I know what schools to listen to your opinion on) what school are you currently at?

Irony in my post is that I probably come off as more of a "charmer." I'd have to disagree. Most people don't like to feel "handled." I find it quite patronizing. In my experience, I'm much more likley to open up to genuine caring docs than "schmalzers." They're usually more apropriate as drug salespeople. And I''d still trust Robert Ruiz, a dean of admissions, over an SDNer any day.

 

[Law2Doc]

Irony in my post is that I probably come off as more of a "charmer." I'd have to disagree. Most people don't like to feel "handled." I find it quite patronizing. In my experience, I'm much more likley to open up to genuine caring docs than "schmalzers." They're usually more apropriate as drug salespeople. And I''d still trust Robert Ruiz, a dean of admissions, over an SDNer any day.

There's a difference between handling people and charming them, so we may be having a semantic disagreement rather than a real one. If a patient likes you, they will open up, plain and simple. And studies also show that if a patient likes you, they are less likely to sue you. Thus having a charming personality contributes to success in medicine. By charming I don't mean smarmy or slick, I mean affable. I have no idea what Dean Ruiz said, but if he said Michigan actively seeks introverts over charmers, he is not in line with a lot of med schools.

 

[Towelie]

There's a difference between handling people and charming them, so we may be having a semantic disagreement rather than a real one. If a patient likes you, they will open up, plain and simple. And studies also show that if a patient likes you, they are less likely to sue you. Thus having a charming personality contributes to success in medicine. By charming I don't mean smarmy or slick, I mean affable. I have no idea what Dean Ruiz said, but if he said Michigan actively seeks introverts over charmers, he is not in line with a lot of med schools.

Good lord. Just read this. So condescending. Do you really think that you're an expert in everything? Give it a rest.

How do you have time for medical school with all of your posting?

 

[Law2Doc]

How do you have time for medical school with all of your posting?

You seem obsessed with my post level. I promise you there are many on here with significantly more posts.
Relate your posts to the topics on the threads, not on whatever issues you have with other posters.

 

[Towelie]

You seem obsessed with my post level. I promise you there are many on here with significantly more posts.
Relate your posts to the topics on the threads, not on whatever issues you have with other posters.

I'll relate my posts to whatever I want.

I feel that others should be warned about the BS that you have been posting in relation to the topic on this thread. That's why I was posting.

My comment on your post level was for your benefit. Do you ever think about how much of your life you have spent on SDN? How many minutes, that you will never get back, you have spent typing on these forums? You're clearly not here to try to help people make hard decisions or to inform others about med school. Your motivation seems to come entirely from arguing with others.

Please, for our benefit and yours, go somewhere else. Go to a political thread or something where more people will want to argue for arguments sake. You're wasting everyones time and energy.

 

[szhao]

I'll relate my posts to whatever I want.

I feel that others should be warned about the BS that you have been posting in relation to the topic on this thread. That's why I was posting.

My comment on your post level was for your benefit. Do you ever think about how much of your life you have spent on SDN? How many minutes, that you will never get back, you have spent typing on these forums? You're clearly not here to try to help people make hard decisions or to inform others about med school. Your motivation seems to come entirely from arguing with others.

Please, for our benefit and yours, go somewhere else. Go to a political thread or something where more people will want to argue for arguments sake. You're wasting everyones time and energy.

I think that is the number one dislike of philosophers, "argue for arguments sake". just drop it, he spends as much time as he wants, you spend as little time as you want, but you know if you look at it this way you two are spending as little or as much time on this thread, arguing. the truth of the matter is i think the OP just wanted a response to his question, not you two bickering. SO sing a song

 

[CaramelDlite]

all this fighting is pretty hilarious,which is great for me because I get really bored at work sometimes😀 .

Though I know I shouldn't enter the battle, I do have to agree *slightly* with Towelie and HumbleMD. Sometimes it seems like your (Law2Docs) posts are a bit too definitive despite the fact that you are not an admissions director or cmte. member. We should all be willing to take perspectives from other people but it seems condescending when you disregard people's experiences and claim they are not accurate judges of performance simply because their opinion is not in accordance with your beliefs. Now of course, there are some people who blow their interviews out of proportion, but I think its still fair to give people the benefit of the doubt and it would nice to see people do that more often in this forum. I am not saying you do this in every post, but I've seen it a few times and it just seems like a little too much.

 

[ADeadLois]

How do you know this? Did they tell you this when you were interviewing at those schools or what? The only thing regarding this that i know FOR SURE is that Baylor interviews are worth 1/3 of your overall score when they rank their applicants for admission. However, it seems a little silly that schools would throw out your whole file once you get to the interview stage and judge you based on your performance at an interview that usually lasts no more than one hour. That would be the most random way to accept students. What if you get sick that day and you can't really show how enthusiastic you are about being a doctor or how interested you are in that particular school? It just doesn't make much sense in my mind. I wish some of the adcoms that post on SDN would shed some light on this issue.

Edit: I probably shouldn't say FOR SURE as far as Baylor goes. Let me rephrase that as "I'm semi-sure..."

I got this from an adcom member. He didn't say they throw out your file, just that they use numbers primarily to decide who gets an interview. From there, they consider your interview, secondary, LORs, etc to determine your motivation and other personal qualities.

 

[ADeadLois]

And for the record, I find Law2Doc to be the most helpful poster on this forum. Anytime a post seems "condescending", it's usually very warranted.

 

[Law2Doc]

all this fighting is pretty hilarious,which is great for me because I get really bored at work sometimes😀 .

Though I know I shouldn't enter the battle, I do have to agree *slightly* with Towelie and HumbleMD. Sometimes it seems like your (Law2Docs) posts are a bit too definitive despite the fact that you are not an admissions director or cmte. member. We should all be willing to take perspectives from other people but it seems condescending when you disregard people's experiences and claim they are not accurate judges of performance simply because their opinion is not in accordance with your beliefs. Now of course, there are some people who blow their interviews out of proportion, but I think its still fair to give people the benefit of the doubt and it would nice to see people do that more often in this forum. I am not saying you do this in every post, but I've seen it a few times and it just seems like a little too much.

Fair enough, and I will try in the future to be a bit less absolute, if it makes people happier -- although if you look at this thread, you will see that I am countering people equally definitive who are asserting the opposite position.
As much as some people dislike my posts on this subject (particularly those who don't like the notion that all their hard work in undergrad can be for naught with a mediocre interview) I would suggest that there is actually a danger when only one viewpoint gets aired in this kind of thread.
I stand by my initial post and think people will do themselves more harm than good taking the interview lightly. Prepare and practice for it. Seriously. And good luck.

 

[CaramelDlite]

Fair enough, and I will try in the future to be a bit less absolute, if it makes people happier -- although if you look at this thread, you will see that I am countering people equally definitive who are asserting the opposite position.
As much as some people dislike my posts on this subject (particularly those who don't like the notion that all their hard work in undergrad can be for naught with a mediocre interview) I would suggest that there is actually a danger when only one viewpoint gets aired in this kind of thread.
I stand by my initial post and think people will do themselves more harm than good taking the interview lightly. Prepare and practice for it. Seriously. And good luck.

True, I can appreciate the better safe than sorry approach. Btw, you're still a pretty respected poster and your willingness to change shows it is a deserved distinction 👍

 

[szhao]

awwww, lets all have a bond fire lol

 

[Robizzle]

yay! big hugsies everyone!

 

[CaramelDlite]

LOL, awwwww yay 🙂

 

[HumbleMD]

Fair enough, and I will try in the future to be a bit less absolute, if it makes people happier -- although if you look at this thread, you will see that I am countering people equally definitive who are asserting the opposite position.
As much as some people dislike my posts on this subject (particularly those who don't like the notion that all their hard work in undergrad can be for naught with a mediocre interview) I would suggest that there is actually a danger when only one viewpoint gets aired in this kind of thread.
I stand by my initial post and think people will do themselves more harm than good taking the interview lightly. Prepare and practice for it. Seriously. And good luck.

Let us celebrate diversity! (Would you know I'm a student at the University of Michigan?) So, crisis/argument averted. Law, I'd still love to know what med school you are at to give some perspective to your opinions.

 

[p9142]

I bet it depends a lot on the tier of school. I would think at the lower tiered schools the interview would matter more, but at the highly ranked schools their average MCAT and GPA add a lot to their ranking.

For example, WashU interviews an enormous number of people (approx. 25% of applicants), but they still maintain an MCAT average of 36.8. It can't just be that the people with high MCAT scores are better interviewers.

 

[Law2Doc]

For example, WashU interviews an enormous number of people (approx. 25% of applicants), but they still maintain an MCAT average of 36.8. It can't just be that the people with high MCAT scores are better interviewers.

If they only interview people with extremely high MCAT scores in the first place, they would end up with a high average no matter what they weighted the interview.

 

[p9142]

If they only interview people with extremely high MCAT scores in the first place, they would end up with a high average no matter what they weighted the interview.

That is true, but they interview around 1200 people every year. I doubt that they receive enough applications to have 1200 people with an MCAT average of 36.8. I am way too lazy to do the math, but I think they would need almost all the top scorers to apply to their school in order to get an average like that. Many people don't apply to WashU because of location and because they have never heard of it, so I don't think this is possible.

 

[Law2Doc]

Many people don't apply to WashU because of location and because they have never heard of it, so I don't think this is possible.

Thanks to their top 5 ranking in US News, I suspect most the competitive credentialed folks have heard of that school.🙂

 

[p9142]

Thanks to their top 5 ranking in US News, I suspect most the competitive credentialed folks have heard of that school.🙂

Touché, but I still think they have a lot of people who don't apply there because of location.

 

[bubabugster]

I hope the avatar shows up. Testing. Testing. Yeh!! I made the troll my avator, even though I am anything but a TROLL! I loooove how he has such a cool way of moving his arms.

 

[45408]

No schools tell you that "only the interview" matters once you have come to interview, and that they will no longer consider the rest of your file. It's a joke. There's no way Law2Doc is dumb enough to believe any of it.

Have you been to all 125 schools? Didn't think so, so shut it. The director of admissions told our interview group that the only thing between us and an acceptance was our interview (thankfully, he said this after our interview). So...you're wrong.

 

[45408]

I'll relate my posts to whatever I want.

I feel that others should be warned about the BS that you have been posting in relation to the topic on this thread. That's why I was posting.

My comment on your post level was for your benefit. Do you ever think about how much of your life you have spent on SDN? How many minutes, that you will never get back, you have spent typing on these forums? You're clearly not here to try to help people make hard decisions or to inform others about med school. Your motivation seems to come entirely from arguing with others.

Please, for our benefit and yours, go somewhere else. Go to a political thread or something where more people will want to argue for arguments sake. You're wasting everyones time and energy.

Ooooh, the ad post counte argument coupled with some ad hominem. I like it! Just call him fat or ugly next time, because that's just as relevant.

I don't appreciate his posts--he goes out of his way to argue with everyone, trying to give logical arguments and make points that are beyond absurd. He has 8200 posts! He must just sit in a room and do nothing but write on SDN all day. And have you looked at his posts? In general, they are almost all argumentative. Not helpful, just argumentative. He needs to get a life.

Wow, he posts 12 times a day. That's like, non-stop, practically. He must just sit in a room and do nothing but write on SDN all day. Except for when we send each other e-love notes, because I know that's what you were about to post next.

 

[solitude]

\Except for when we send each other e-love notes, because I know that's what you were about to post next.

aw snap

 

[Phil Anthropist]

I don't know what TOS stands for, but I don't see how I am violating anything.

TOS stands for "Terms of Service," usage policies that you agreed to when you registered for SDN.

Harassment is a violation of the Terms of Service. Failure to refrain from personal attacks will lead to action on your account (a warning, an infraction, a post-held account, account probation, or a ban).

I wish I could ignore your posts--but a few naive people on these forums seem to be actually taking the absurdities that you post seriously, and I feel some sort of obligation to tell them how ridiculous your arguments are.

First of all, you can ignore a user's posts.
(a) go to your User CP:
(b) on the Control Panel on the left, go down to the Miscellaneous section and click on Buddy / Ignore Lists
(c) use the instructions provided to add users to your ignore list

Second, the SDN volunteer team is fallible and users are welcome to disagree with the SDN volunteers; SDN's users are entitled to their opinions and may post their dissenting opinions as long as the posts do not violate SDN's TOS. You may have provided support for your understanding over Law2Doc's, but you also made unnecessary, derisive comments. To reiterate, you may provide reasons for your disagreement in a respectful way, but if you continue to make personal attacks then appropriate action will be taken on your account.

 

[Towelie]

Have you been to all 125 schools? Didn't think so, so shut it. The director of admissions told our interview group that the only thing between us and an acceptance was our interview (thankfully, he said this after our interview). So...you're wrong.

You really believe that, in the admissions committee, that they were looking ONLY at your interviewer's feedback and not at any other part of your file? It makes no sense. Seriously.

 

[Towelie]

Ooooh, the ad post counte argument coupled with some ad hominem. I like it! Just call him fat or ugly next time, because that's just as relevant.


Wow, he posts 12 times a day. That's like, non-stop, practically. He must just sit in a room and do nothing but write on SDN all day. Except for when we send each other e-love notes, because I know that's what you were about to post next.

My comment was based on the fact that Law2Doc's posts are almost always argumentative and not helpful. I'm sorry if I offended your ego by commenting on Law2Doc's large post count.

 

[DrZeke]

Have you been to all 125 schools? Didn't think so, so shut it. The director of admissions told our interview group that the only thing between us and an acceptance was our interview (thankfully, he said this after our interview). So...you're wrong.

You are BOTH right. If you look at my post on the first page...at some schools the interview is what they base your acceptance one, once you get to that stage, and at other schools - usually where they interview lots of students and don't prescreen as much - they use the interview as an equal piece of the puzzle in making the decision about your app.

 

[Robizzle]

My goodness this is still going on??

 

[Towelie]

TOS stands for "Terms of Service," usage policies that you agreed to when you registered for SDN.

Harassment is a violation of the Terms of Service. Failure to refrain from personal attacks will lead to action on your account (a warning, an infraction, a post-held account, account probation, or a ban).

First of all, you can ignore a user's posts.
(a) go to your User CP:
(b) on the Control Panel on the left, go down to the Miscellaneous section and click on Buddy / Ignore Lists
(c) use the instructions provided to add users to your ignore list

Second, the SDN volunteer team is fallible and users are welcome to disagree with the SDN volunteers; SDN's users are entitled to their opinions and may post their dissenting opinions as long as the posts do not violate SDN's TOS. You may have provided support for your understanding over Law2Doc's, but you also made unnecessary, derisive comments. To reiterate, you may provide reasons for your disagreement in a respectful way, but if you continue to make personal attacks then appropriate action will be taken on your account.

I understand, you're standing up for Law2Doc, because he/she works is a volunteer for SDN or an advisor or whatever (I'm not sure what the "advisor" means). Shouldn't some amount of free speech be permitted on these forums?

The only "derisive" comment involved the post count. I'm sorry, but I find 8000 posts to be a bit ridiculous. If you want to kick me off for saying so, then go ahead and do it.

 

[silkworm]

Anyway, back to topic. For OHSU at least, the dean stated at the interview performance account approximately 80% of the final score used to rank applicants for admission.

 

[DrZeke]

Anyway, back to topic. For OHSU at least, the dean stated at the interview performance account approximately 80% of the final score used to rank applicants for admission.

yeah...i wrote a post on it, but i guess i'm being ignored *sob*

 

[45408]

You really believe that, in the admissions committee, that they were looking ONLY at your interviewer's feedback and not at any other part of your file? It makes no sense. Seriously.

If a school only extends interviews to applicants that they would have no problem accepting, then why would it not make sense? It's not like they give interviews to people with a 2.7/22 and then just fall in love with them at the interview. Again, this isn't my opinion. Either my director of admissions is a liar, or that's just how it works at my school.

 

[Towelie]

If a school only extends interviews to applicants that they would have no problem accepting, then why would it not make sense? It's not like they give interviews to people with a 2.7/22 and then just fall in love with them at the interview. Again, this isn't my opinion. Either my director of admissions is a liar, or that's just how it works at my school.

What school do you go to? It seems like you completely misinterpreted your director of admissions. According to you, he/she: "told our interview group that the only thing between us and an acceptance was our interview." That is a very vague statement, and certainly doesn't mean that, after the interview, that the interview was the only part of the file considered for acceptance.


I would challenge anyone to find one medical school that considers all interviewees to be on a level field. Post the link here, if you find one. Medical schools put these things on their websites, so if such a school exists, it shouldn't be hard to find.

 

[45408]

What school do you go to? It seems like you completely misinterpreted your director of admissions. According to you, he/she: "told our interview group that the only thing between us and an acceptance was our interview." That is a very vague statement, and certainly doesn't mean that, after the interview, that the interview was the only part of the file considered for acceptance.


I would challenge anyone to find one medical school that considers all interviewees to be on a level field. Post the link here, if you find one. Medical schools put these things on their websites, so if such a school exists, it shouldn't be hard to find.

MCW, and no, I didn't misinterpret him. That wasn't a verbatim quote (I don't remember his exact words - it was a year ago). I've since talked to other people, all of whom remember the same thing I'm telling you. I've also talked to him since, since I'm a tour guide, and the same sentiment was reiterated. Go ahead and comb the website, but it doesn't say anything specific.

I don't see what the big deal is, unless you're really reluctant to admit you're wrong. I have no idea what the adcom is thinking.