Interviews..Can MCAT score still kill my chances

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edgerock24 said:
The fact that someone less competitive can get into medical school over someone significantly more qualified solely because of their skin color is downright sickening and unfair.
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I totally agree, but that's not the thought process behind the system. They don't do it so they can have a person of color sitting in a seat the first day. At least they won't admit to this. The idea is that yes, the person may get in with lower stats, but in return they bring things to the table in other ways. They may have worked through things like racism and a disadvantages socioeconomic stats. I can guarantee you that the black kid with two parents who are doctors that went to Yale with a 3.3 and a 25 isn't going to get into medical school easily.Unless his parents write someone a fat check, but that's another matter. Schools do actually look at the person's background most of the time. Sometimes a bad decision is made and yes, it is sickening, but the system isn't perfect.
 
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mgreen said:
First off, I do not want people to get the wrong idea and think im just being a jerk with interviews 🤔

But anyways I want to see what you guys think about this situation. I looked at previous threads but some are old and not as helpful.

Some quick info. CGPA: 3.50, sgpa slightly lower. Good EC's/LORS/etc. URM

To my surprised, I have been invited to a couple of interviews (MD so far) even though I did horrible on my MCAT, 25 balanced 8/8/9.

My question is, I am I destined to get waitlisted/rejected at all schools because at the end of the day my MCAT is so bad? How important is the MCAT once you're interviewed? got an uneasy feeling that im interviewing for a rejection 🙁. any uplifting advice would be appreciated
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Where did you apply, get II? I ask because i have similar stats and im still waiting on several east coast schools. In the end i already have an acceptance at a school here so I will be getting my MD regardless of whether those school deem me good enough based on a rough background that gave me my stats
 
Arcumis said:
http://whiteguysdoingitbythemselves.tumblr.com/

This is so topical now. As a URM I'm just going to eye-roll and bookmark this thread

:corny:
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As someone who is in strong favor of the diversification of medicine and has yet to enter a URM debate, I am compelled to tell you how ridiculous that link you posted is. God forbid People named a white man as the sexiest man alive!!! Give me a freaking break.
 
McMeowerson said:
As someone who is in strong favor of the diversification of medicine and has yet to enter a URM debate, I am compelled to tell you how ridiculous that link you posted is. God forbid People named a white man as the sexiest man alive!!! Give me a freaking break.
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If you take that link that seriously I think you are doing it wrong. If you take anything on tumblr seriously for that matter.
 
Please keep this from being a war about what's right and whats wrong. That's not the reason i made this thread. I agree with some of what you guys say. I do agree it's unfair to certain groups (caucasian,Asian,etc) that others get it easier but these things are in place for a reason. Mcat and Gpa do not define who will make a good doctor and who wouldn't. Do you ask you physician what his/her mcat score is before they treat you? Below 30 mcat dont get near me ??

A 35 vs 25 mcat shows and likely indicates a more prepared student, but it does not guarantee that the 35 mcat student will always do better than the one for 25.
Also there are other factors that weigh in.would you give a seat to the kid with a 35 mcat with minimal or cookie cut ecs or the 25 mcat wih much more experiences that indicate dedication and passion for the career they which to practice. I prefer a dedicated okay student than one who's obsessed about his higher mcat and doesnt give an f about me. Now there's also students who have it easier. Parents are doctors, good income , and education vs someone who has the opposite.
 
Disregarding the slippery slope parts of this thread are headed towards, to the OP I'd like to say getting invited to the interview already signals interest. Every school has some formula they use to choose who gets admitted post interview and it's highly unlikely you'll get a direct answer pertaining to your specific chances. In my case, I had an even worse mcat score last year (and, fortunately, at least one blind interview) but I had great interviews. My advice to you is you have to have the confidence that you'll be a successful doctor during your interviews. If you second guess yourself, it's likely to show.

I also suggest ignoring most of sdn until you have at least one acceptance. I am glad that I avoided this place until recently because reading about others kids freaking out with ridic mcat scores/gpas & ECs would've been annoying and could've made me worry even more. So think positive & kill those interviews 🙂
 
mcloaf said:
While technically that's true overall, it's not an informative way to look at the data because the distributions are so different. The charts show a disproportionately large number of black applicants applying at the very low end of the stats spectrum which makes the overall acceptance rate deceptively small. For example, while there were roughly the same number (~1000) of white and black applicants with MCAT scores between 15 and 17, there were 20,000 white applicants with an MCAT between 30 and 32 but only 746 blacks. You see the same trend with GPA.

In reality the acceptance rates are much higher across the majority of the range of stats (certainly in the range of stats that would be considered competitive). In OP's case, with a GPA of 3.40-3.59 and an MCAT of 24-26, the acceptance rate among white applicants 17.8% while blacks with the same stats were accepted at a rate of 76%.

I'm not trying to turn this into a pro or con URM thread as I support efforts to increase diversity in medicine, but your statement doesn't really tell the whole truth (and I suspect you know that).

For those interested in seeing the data tables:
https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/app...mcat-gpa-grid-by-selected-race-ethnicity.html
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I don't agree with the way things are set up to increase diversity in medicine or anything other field. Is it fair that a Hispanic or African American with sub par stats gets accepted over a white person who has better stats and is kore well rounded? I agree that there should be more diversity in every field, but giving people places in classes that they didn't earn is not the right way of doing things. That being said a 25 mcat is not the be all end all. You have interviews so you will most likely be accepted! Good luck!
 
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Thank you for the support and advice kekes. I will keep it in mind. I can partially agree with you jono44, things are the way they are. With the USA becoming more and more diverse, I would think this would be less on an issue in the future. But thank you nonetheless for your comments and support.
 
kb11 said:
Agreed. You look at professional sporting, for instance the NFL draft. Athletes are drafted based primarily on skill and talent. The fact that a team might be all white or all black, is inconsequential. The fact that a man might come from poverty or from a wealthy family is inconsequential. It's all about how you;e performed and your athletic ability on the professional level. The selection process is just- based on qualifications, a little luck, and perhaps an element of professionalism, marketability, and likability. Can someone please tell me why medical admissions process does not parallel this?!
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I would guess because its easier to pick someone who is a total a-hole and who can clearly hate the sport and team mates just for the fact he can help you win. In sports its all about winning and money. Healthcare is not like that. Its going to be pretty hard to land an ortho spot if your ego is too huge and you just want to get paid. Plus you're dealing with peoples lives and health here. Totally different.
 
You would want a guy like A-rod on your team because of his talent (talking 6-7yrs ago) but I would not have that kinda guy as my doctor
 
Still plays a role.

Come from a very good school: 95-100% people graduate, great in all regards vs a very crappy one: graduation rate close to 50%. One is in a middle-high class area the other in a very poor neighborhood. Which one would prepare you better for college and provide you with the skills to succeed more? It's pretty well documented that race and income correlate with education received and success in life. Admissions wants well rounded individuals, you can't admit well rounded individuals if you choose to evaluate some areas while ignoring others.

The only place I would completely disagree with choosing a minority over majority is if they come from the same background and had similar experiences. I would choose the one with the better stats.
 
edgerock24 said:
The fact that someone less competitive can get into medical school over someone significantly more qualified solely because of their skin color is downright sickening and unfair.
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I respectfully challenge you consider the importance of diversity in healthcare. The information that you take away from this exercise has the potential to positively impact your life and those whom you interact with.

You may find it useful to begin by considering why and how the healthcare system must ensure (and this is an inexhaustible list):
1) respect and beneficence for all patients; i.e. overcoming cultural-, age-, race- and gender-disparities (among others) to provide proper patient-centered care.
2) justice for all patients; i.e. allocating resources fairly and reasonably to overcome and prevent gaps in healthcare for specific patient populations (i.e. underrepresented folks)

Medical school admissions committees have a central, necessary and ethical responsibility in establishing diversity through selection of students as part of a holistic review. They therefore consider diversity attributes as qualifiers for entering into a medical training program, similar to the MCAT and GPA.

It is self-evident that medical schools are not going to accept students they believe will not become capable physicians unable to contribute to the overall mission of medicine.

In regard to fairness, medical school admissions committees do not exist to support admissions for the highest MCAT scores and GPAs, although many have that luxury. Instead, they exist to support the healthcare system in a way that is aligned with their school's mission; i.e. 1) and 2) above, and more.

You may also find it useful to explore recent U.S. history. It was not more than a couple of generations ago that blacks in this country were systematically prohibited from acquiring higher education, or one at all. The effect of the Jim Crow-era on many blacks today is also something that cannot be ignored. This is a long-form way of saying that in many cases, test scores and GPA are not indicative of capability or quality, but that they are indicative of circumstance and systematic failures on the part of other folks. I am using blacks as an example, but other races have experienced plight in this country in recent history.

It is in the spirit of empathy and creating a system that best cares for all patients that I hope you will reconsider your position.

And remember, overcoming biases starts with one's self and is the path to enlightenment...grasshopper. Good luck.
 
edgerock24 said:
The fact that someone less competitive can get into medical school over someone significantly more qualified solely because of their skin color is downright sickening and unfair.
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*clears throat*
Poverty Rate by Race:
African Americans - 27%
Hispanics (Mexican Americans) - 25%
Native Americans - 26%
White Ethnic Groups - 9%

The only way to fix this blatant disparity is to educate these minority groups. Yes it may not be fair to people like you who are white but don't hate the system. Hate the fact that even after 200+ years minorities are still considered disadvantaged. How is it that if we pull four African Americans out of a line up chances are one of them will be under the poverty line. The poverty line is about $12,000 annually for an independent mind you.

If it's about over qualification then take this into consideration. Predominately, whites are able to go to decent public schools which allow them to acquire a decent education. Tax revenue for schools is considerably higher in suburban areas than inner city ones allowing whites to have a plethora of opportunities for success. Inner city schools where most minorities are crowded into remain sub-par and are reduced to "drop out" factories. Unqualified teachers are forced to educate students on subjects they are not well-versed in (English teacher attempting to teach biology). In my opinion, anyone who comes from an environment like that who fights their way to get into college and then fights their way to make it to the dreaded medical school application process is more than deserving of an acceptance.

I don't mean to come off as brash though so please don't take it that way.
 
Thank you for your posts on the subject. I can confirm a lot of what cipher has spoken on. My high school accepted too many students, to the point where any bad behavior would result in getting kicked out the school just so they could reduce the number. Went from a class of about 500 students, way above 10, 11 & 12th grade which had avg 200 students in each class. For my graduating class, about 200 had graduated, 200 kicked out, 100 dropped out or had delayed graduation. As for the teachers, I had a Spanish professor who was German, very very nice lady but she knew less spanish than the students. We taught her more than what she taught us. And thats the gods truth right there.
 
edgerock24 said:
The fact that someone less competitive can get into medical school over someone significantly more qualified solely because of their skin color is downright sickening and unfair.
Click to expand...

I would never want you to be my physician. You are downright ethnocentric and even hinting into racist. High GPA and MCAT dont mean capabilities. It means you are good at test taking and possibly did not have hardships during your education.

Many factors like socioeconomic background and language barriers do affect a persons MCAT and academics. Consider a student from a disadvantaged background who has to work through school to help pay for his educationa nd help out at home, a home of parents who are continuously fighting or where thes tudent must take care of a family member. How can everyone in these conditions succeed? Not everyone is capable of moving out or studying successfully in this environment.

Or consider hispanics or even students from Puerto Rico like myself who, even though i have no problems with the english language, struggles in standardized tests because all of my classes in universityhave been in Spanish and that has been proven to interfere. In high school i had no problem because most of my classes were in English and when taking the SAT and college board I did not struggle.

I if you seriously believe that just because I struggled with some things during my college years that you wouldnt even imagine I am undeserving of going to medical school, you are seriously a crappy person. You are the one that doesnt deserve to become a doctor because you have no sens of emoathy or understanding for those who didnt have the comodities that you did. You are the one that sickens me, not the system.
 
kb11 said:
Agreed. You look at professional sporting, for instance the NFL draft. Athletes are drafted based primarily on skill and talent. The fact that a team might be all white or all black, is inconsequential. The fact that a man might come from poverty or from a wealthy family is inconsequential. There is no discrimination It's all about how you;e performed and your athletic ability potential on the professional level. The selection process is just- based on qualifications, a little luck, and perhaps an element of professionalism, marketability, and likability. Can someone please tell me why medical admissions process does not parallel this?! If anything the process seems to be a random crap shoot and if anything it DOES discriminate. In the process, they are creating less competent physicians. Why is someone whose had to work throughout their undergad granted leeway or someone who is a minority? There is no leeway for this with regards to athletic performance and I don't think it should be this way for med admissions. Everyone should be treated equally, no matter what gender you are, where you come from, what your skin color or family income.
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I find it alarming though amusing and not atypical on SDN that you think the NFL draft and medical school admissions are equivalent systems.
 
kb11 said:
Agreed. You look at professional sporting, for instance the NFL draft. Athletes are drafted based primarily on skill and talent. The fact that a team might be all white or all black, is inconsequential. The fact that a man might come from poverty or from a wealthy family is inconsequential. There is no discrimination It's all about how you;e performed and your athletic ability potential on the professional level. The selection process is just- based on qualifications, a little luck, and perhaps an element of professionalism, marketability, and likability. Can someone please tell me why medical admissions process does not parallel this?! If anything the process seems to be a random crap shoot and if anything it DOES discriminate. In the process, they are creating less competent physicians. Why is someone whose had to work throughout their undergad granted leeway or someone who is a minority? There is no leeway for this with regards to athletic performance and I don't think it should be this way for med admissions. Everyone should be treated equally, no matter what gender you are, where you come from, what your skin color or family income.
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I encourage you to exhaust all options to answer your question, "why medical admissions process does not parallel this [NFL Draft]".

During your intellectual exploration, please consider the overall missions of the NFL and the healthcare system while you attempt to find rationale for why differences exist in their selection process. Determine for yourself what it takes to create a reasonably well functioning healthcare system that can meet the needs of all patients supported by it and consider why this may differ from the NFL.

A thoughtful analysis of the benefits of diversity in the healthcare setting will serve you well.
 
I've seemed to unintentionally upset some posters here from my previously written comment. Let me re-clarify:
1) I am 100% behind diversity in medicine. There is a definite need for it.
2) MCAT and GPA, I agree, do not tell the whole story. My only issue (which is in fact not applicable to the OP's stats--I would not consider a 25 MCAT "low" like some would) is when a URM with, for instance, a 18-20 MCAT (I've seen it mentioned on these forums) and a lackluster GPA gets into medical school. Those are borderline Caribbean stats. If MCAT and GPA are so important for the vast majority of other applicants, then why should some individuals be given a free pass because of the color of their skin (again, I'm only referencing those with laughable stats that are way below the average)?
3) The situation that I am describing makes URM's like the OP, with decent stats, look like "special cases." I do not believe that they are special cases because of that. I think URM's have the ability to get high MCAT scores and GPA's on a regular basis.

The OP will get into medical school and absolutely deserves to get into medical school. Those who get 17 MCAT's with 2.6 GPA's, on the other hand do not, regardless of their skin color. This is not because I believe MCAT and GPA are incredibly prime indicators of an individual becoming a good physician. This is because other applicants are more qualified from an admissions standpoint.
 
Thank you for further elaborating on your point edgerock, I def get what you mean and it does makes sense
 
mgreen said:
Thank you for further elaborating on your point edgerock, I def get what you mean and it does makes sense
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This, sorry if i came up a bit defensive its just that it was easy to misunderstand your point from your first post and i thought that was a little inconsiderate but niw i get you and I agree
 
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