Intimidating decision (also... MD vs DO)

[FluffyCat1212]

***Please do not quote!***

Hello all. I am very grateful to have received two acceptances to strong schools. I'm going to withhold the school names because CoA info may give some potentially identifying information and I'm neurotic. However, if it helps, I'm happy to DM them to you. They're also probably not that hard to guess...

At this time, I am interested in psychiatry. Although it has historically been fairly easy to match into, it has been becoming increasingly competitive. I'm also passionate about incorporating clinical research into my future career, so landing a residency at an academic institution would be ideal.

DO- new rural campus (CoA approx <$100,000 for four years)
Pros

• Established DO school that is locally/regionally respected (it is also Goro-approved )
• Decent research reputation (ranked >100 on US News, but is part of a large and very research-active parent school)
• Received a generous scholarship
• Beautiful new facilities
• 100% match rate for the main campus, with matches into derm, ortho, and plastics last year
• Excellent opportunity to work with an underserved population
• Unique leadership opportunities that come from being on a new campus
• Very small and tight-knit class, tangible "family" atmosphere
• Instructors and administration seem friendly, warm, and approachable

Cons

• New campus has not graduated a class yet (so no campus-specific match list)
• Emphasis on primary care, which isn't exactly my area of interest. at least not yet.
• I prefer urban areas
• Most lectures are broadcast from the main campus
• 2 board exams (COMLEX and USMLE)

MD- main campus (CoA approx $360,000 for four years)

Pros

• Strong research, particularly clinical research (there are even clubs for students interested in working in academia). Slightly higher-ranked research than the other school.
• Located in a large city
• Very large, multi-disciplinary campus in a hip area of town
• Unfortunately, MD still may be a little more competitive than DO if I happen to fall in love with a competitive specialty while I'm there.
• Diverse match list with several matching into prestigious programs.
• Honestly, I just really loved this school on interview day and have been really interested in it for years.

Cons

• It is a state school, and I am considered OOS, which is the driver behind the sky-high CoA. No chance at merit-based scholarships, at least for the first year. There may be some opportunities for small scholarships down the line. Need-based scholarships are tbd, but I'm not optimistic.
• Larger class size
• While I would hesitate to call the administration cold and distant, it definitely feels less warm and friendly than the other school. I don't believe that my few interactions with them are representative of the whole academic environment, but I won't lie that this worries me a bit.

Tl;dr: MD vs DO, but with 2 strong choices and a tricky financial situation. Both are great schools, which is leaving me very conflicted. If anyone has any input or advice on how to approach this decision, please let me know! And again, please do not quote. Thanks in advance!

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[m1redsox]

A new rural campus of an established DO school is not the same as an established DO school. Just because the main campus does well does not mean the new rural campus will do well (take RVU-UT for example). Go MD. It will drastically simplify your life and help you avoid the additional hurdles of DO school—especially if you are not interested in primary care. Their “primary care focus” is probably just code for, “we won’t have many resources for those who want to match competitively”.

 

[theendisnigh]

If you want to go academic I would go MD. Seconding the earlier comment that just because it is a branch of an established school, that does not make it the established school. Go for the school that has graduated a class.

 

[Banco]

I understand the cost factor - but I would still go MD. It’ll set you up a bit more securely. Could you count as in state after a year for the state school?

Your other cons for the MD school don’t really matter (you’ll likely never interact with admissions admin as an actual student). I’m sure you could also be successful at the DO school (and every year the glass ceiling gets broken a bit more as it should) - but be aware that the bias can be real especially for academic residency programs. And from your description, this sounds like a new school? You may want to look at the DO medical student boards with regards to psychiatry in particular - they can inform better.

This thread might be useful: I matched midtier University Psych. AMA

You can search for others too.

 

[FluffyCat1212]

Thanks everyone. I agree. I have been leaning toward the MD school still, but the thought of that much debt is a little scary.

And unfortunately, I will not qualify as in-state . My mom still lives in the state, but I have been a resident of a different state for about 5 years now (had to move for work).

The other thing I'm considering is a public service loan forgiveness program, especially since I really want to go into academia. Does anyone have any experience with those?

And Banco, thanks for letting me know! I've been creeping a bit on the boards, but could always creep more. The DO school is a brand new branch of an older school. It's not "original 5 DO schools" old, but the main school itself has been around for at least 30 years.

 

[Banco]

Thanks everyone. I agree. I have been leaning toward the MD school still, but the thought of that much debt is a little scary.

And unfortunately, I will not qualify as in-state . My mom still lives in the state, but I have been a resident of a different state for about 5 years now (had to move for work).

The other thing I'm considering is a public service loan forgiveness program, especially since I really want to go into academia. Does anyone have any experience with those?

And Banco, thanks for letting me know! I've been creeping a bit on the boards, but could always creep more. The DO school is a brand new branch of an older school. It's not "original 5 DO schools" old, but the main school itself has been around for at least 30 years.

Yeah I’ll fully admit I am not up to snuff with the DO landscape and matching psychiatry more than superficially - that’s why I want to make sure you get some informed opinions because it is definitely a tough decision in your case.

 

[bigsgr]

MD 100%

 

[FluffyCat1212]

Thank you all. I'm leaning toward the MD, but not gonna lie, that debt is scaring me to death! Has anyone heard of PSLF? Or know someone who has done it? Apparently academic institutions often qualify, so since I would love to work in academia, it might be a solid option....

 

[MDMechEngr]

Thank you all. I'm leaning toward the MD, but not gonna lie, that debt is scaring me to death! Has anyone heard of PSLF? Or know someone who has done it? Apparently academic institutions often qualify, so since I would love to work in academia, it might be a solid option....

360K is crazy. I hear that all match options are open to DOs. just make sure you score 260 on step 2, have a good amount of research and good LOR. iF you happen to be average, than you only owe <100K, which you can pay back easly in FM or IM.

 

[MedScat]

As an M4 getting ready to a apply for residency, I'm so glad I didn't choose a DO school. Not because there's anything wrong with it just because it is very clear that some programs just only accept MD students (and it's more than a few!). Why close doors for you before you even start? 360k is obviously a lot but, the extra 260k for the MD is just an investment in your future. I'm applying for EM which isn't even that competitive and is super DO friendly and there's still a number of programs that only take MD students

 

[drducky.]

Go MD and here’s my reasonings:

1) Don’t have to waste time learning OMM, especially since you want to go into psychiatry. Think of everything you can do with that extra time!

2) New schools never have good rotation sites. You might have to relocate many hours away, not get a good teaching experience, or not even get to work with residents.

3) Not too sure about this one, but DO schools are expanding rapidly with no slowing down in sight. This can only end badly for DOs.

 

[Tiran145]

I had a similar situation when deciding between Levon and creighton a few years ago. Just took step 1 and am so glad to be going MD. No complex and so much easier to match as others said. If you go do you will most likely regret it

 

[Goro]

In your situation, OP, while I normally recommend going for the lesser debt, MD will have more doors open for you.

 

[sunshinefl]

Take the MD

 

[FluffyCat1212]

Thanks y'all. I really appreciate the honest advice and agree with your suggestions. Now I'm off to find ways to reduce the crippling debt

 

[FluffyCat1212]

Okay, so the decision just got much easier. The MD school is now Mayo and not a mid-tier state school... Although I did not receive any scholarships at either, Mayo's tuition is slightly cheaper than the state school. I did end up committing to Mayo, which has been my dream school for a while now.

However, I'm still terrified that I'm making the wrong decision by turning down a full ride. Can someone please talk some sense into me? Or smack me in the face for being an extra neurotic premed? Will gladly accept either.

 

[HumanAfterAll]

Okay, so the decision just got much easier. The MD school is now Mayo and not a mid-tier state school... Although I did not receive any scholarships at either, Mayo's tuition is slightly cheaper than the state school. I did end up committing to Mayo, which has been my dream school for a while now.

However, I'm still terrified that I'm making the wrong decision by turning down a full ride. Can someone please talk some sense into me? Or smack me in the face for being an extra neurotic premed? Will gladly accept either.

 

[FluffyCat1212]

Works great. Thanks haha

 

[FluffyCat1212]

Okay, reading more threads on student debt and freaking myself out again! I really didn't make a big mistake turning down a full ride at a new DO school for Mayo (with full tuition)? Have saved up some money over my gap years to the point where I may not have to take a loan out during my first year, but after that, it's debt on debt on debt! Eeek!

 

[CorgiLoaf]

Okay, reading more threads on student debt and freaking myself out again! I really didn't make a big mistake turning down a full ride at a new DO school for Mayo (with full tuition)? Have saved up some money over my gap years to the point where I may not have to take a loan out during my first year, but after that, it's debt on debt on debt! Eeek!

With interest rates probably rising next year, it might be a good idea to max out loans this year and then take out less next year. Regardless...

$360,000 might seem like a scary number, but the good news is that you'll be making a lot of money. Even with a "lowly" 200k salary, you'll probably make ~140k net. If you only spend 60k a year (which is very doable), you can pay off the entire $360,000 in about 6-7 years.

Debt is just math and numbers at the end of the day. You'll have high debt but also a high income. Don't stress out too much about money and focus on your studies! Medical school costs you around $300/day

 

[gramnegative]

If you are as interested in research as you say you are, you gotta go to Mayo.

 

[FluffyCat1212]

Thanks y'all. I officially withdrew my acceptance at the DO school (OSU-COM Tahlequah) to go to Mayo. It was really difficult to turn down the scholarship, which is why I really appreciate your advice and reassurance. Realized that the money I have saved up from working for almost 5 years should reduce the debt to about $250k. Still a lot of money, but Mayo definitely seems like a safer option in the long run- especially if I want to go into academia. Also wrote Mayo a letter of intent in January, so it would be disingenuous to go elsewhere. Thank you so much for talking this anxious premed out of her neuroticsm

edited because I'm trying to stay somewhat anonymous and failing miserably

 

[drgoldenboy]

I think you definitely made the right choice, no doubt.

I'm in the same boat - super super stressed about the debt I am about to take on. I had a full-ride scholarship offer through the HPSP that the VA is offering, but I turned it down (attending a private MD school). I found a few resources that helped me make this big decision. Basically, as I am sure you already know, if you live frugally while in med school and then live like a resident for a few years as an attending you can pay it off pretty quickly.

Here are some resources to help you not make financial mistakes:

1. White coat investor
2. The physician philosophers guide to personal finance
3. Medical student loans by Ben white (Student Loans | Ben White)

I'm getting my plan together so I know exactly what I am doing financially with the loans, and when I can approximately expect to pay them off. It could be a good idea for you to do this as well using those resources before taking out the loans so you know what you are going to do.

 

[FluffyCat1212]

I apologize for the late response! Thank you so much for your thorough response and for validating what was a decision that scared the daylights outta me! Best of luck to you, and thanks for sharing your resources!!